We will never be bad

[WillieWatanabe]

welp Mitch Holthus' Purple Palace    goodbye. 

[pissclams]

everyone that says jones isn't discernibly worse defensively than kstate's other guards is really really bad at watching basketball.

Because by watching a handful of games of limited action you can definitively proclaim that Jones is a considerably worse defender than say, the three guard rotation rotation that got forcibly face mumped by Nathan Pledger on Saturday for 40 minutes. 

this is what i was thinking.  i don't think jones is so bad that he'd give up more than our other shitty guards.

[wabash909]

Nobody is saying that Jet is a great or even good defender.  But at this point, who cares?  Our clownshow rotation is already going to turn the ball over 20 times a game.  You might as well trade out for a little offensive production and allow the kid a few minutes to go try to improve himself. 

But then again, we could always play 4 on 5 on the offensive end and allow teams to pack it in on us as we pretend Spradling is some All-American defender because he shut down Keiton effing Page.

[Saulbadguy]

GIVE FRANK A CHANCE!!!!!!!

[kso_FAN]

GIVE FRANK A CHANCE!!!!!!!

I'm still a Frankite FWIW. It will take a lot more than this to change that. This is frustrating/disappointing, but Frank has still been good for K-State and I think he will continue to be good, even if this is just an NIT year.

[Andy]

i sorta agree with the OP, but to a point.  I don't think we'll great in that we win a conf reg season title because it takes frank too long into the season to get his teams playing well and consistently.  I could see some big 12 tournament wins and some more ncaa successes down the road though.  this regular season turmoil is self imposed because of the roster turnover each year.  when you only have 3 or 4 scholarship upperclassmen on your team because you run off so many guys each season this is what you end up till about this time of the yr when stuff starts clicking.  least thats been the track record.  

to add to that the recruiting at the guard position has been a total failure the last 2 seasons.  other than angel (who can't stay on the floor) we basically have 2 star or unrated guys playing there and its killing us.  thats all on frank.  kudos to him though if he's able to get this mess into the tournament this season, despite the self imposed problems.

[kougar24]

even if this is just an NIT year.

You shut your whore mouth, _FAN. I expect at least 10 straight years of NCAA tourney appearances from 2 years ago onward.

[catzacker]

i remember how good Denis was defensively.  Lock Down Clemente is what we used to call him.

[Rage Against the McKee]

GIVE FRANK A CHANCE!!!!!!!

I'm still a Frankite FWIW. It will take a lot more than this to change that. This is frustrating/disappointing, but Frank has still been good for K-State and I think he will continue to be good, even if this is just an NIT year.

I am, too, but I was a until the very end. Sometimes it's good to listen to an outside perspective on these things. Really, though, just making the tournament is good enough for me this year. I have higher expectations for next year's team.

[mcmwcat]

philosophy of KITN and woolitery go hand in hand.

[OregonSmock]

You guys will blow out KU in Manhattan, finish 4th in the conference, and all will be right with the world again.  Oklahoma is a lot more talented than people give them credit for, and they've got a very good coach.  KU recruited the sh*t out of Romero Osby before we "settled" for the Morris twins.  That team has some talent, but I do understand your frustration.  I think someone got it right when they said OU is this year's CU for K-State.

[michigancat]

Brian Rohelder may have been able to shut down Pledger, but how would we know? He. Never. Got. The Chance.

[bigwillie20]

You guys will blow out KU in the Manhattan, finish 4th in the conference, and all will be right with the world again.  Oklahoma is a lot more talented than people give them credit for, and they've got a very good coach.  KU recruited the sh*t out of Romero Osby before we "settled" for the Morris twins.  That team has some talent, but I do understand your frustration.  I think someone got it right when they said OU is this year's CU for K-State.

But noone listened to me 

We're not beating KU this year.  I actually think we have a better shot of winning @ Baylor than KU at home

[OregonSmock]

Brian Rohelder may have been able to shut down Pledger, but how would we know? He. Never. Got. The Chance.

You remind me of the nut hangers on phog.net who go ape sh*t whenever someone questions Self.  It's a message board... meant for discussion.  It's not a contest to see who is the best wannabe head coach. 

[OregonSmock]

You guys will blow out KU in the Manhattan, finish 4th in the conference, and all will be right with the world again.  Oklahoma is a lot more talented than people give them credit for, and they've got a very good coach.  KU recruited the sh*t out of Romero Osby before we "settled" for the Morris twins.  That team has some talent, but I do understand your frustration.  I think someone got it right when they said OU is this year's CU for K-State.

But noone listened to me 

We're not beating KU this year.  I actually think we have a better shot of winning @ Baylor than KU at home

You guys are going to beat the sh*t out of KU.  Our bench is garbage, and our coach/team will panic in that type of environment. 

[michigancat]

Brian Rohelder may have been able to shut down Pledger, but how would we know? He. Never. Got. The Chance.

You remind me of the nut hangers on phog.net who go ape sh*t whenever someone questions Self.  It's a message board... meant for discussion.  It's not a contest to see who is the best wannabe head coach. 

I have criticized Frank plenty for his roster mismanagement and wacky ass recruiting. But to say that you don't know Jeremy Jones sucks at defense is pretty stupid.

[kso_FAN]

Brian Rohelder may have been able to shut down Pledger, but how would we know? He. Never. Got. The Chance.

You remind me of the nut hangers on phog.net who go ape sh*t whenever someone questions Self.  It's a message board... meant for discussion.  It's not a contest to see who is the best wannabe head coach. 

I have criticized Frank plenty for his roster mismanagement and wacky ass recruiting. But to say that you don't know Jeremy Jones sucks at defense is pretty stupid.

The only time 95% (or more) of fans watch any player on defense is when they are guarding the ball. Jones does alright keeping people in front of him most of the time, of course he usually is guarding an opponents 3rd or 4th best scoring option on the court. Anyway, I can understand why most people have the perception of his (or any player's) defense that they do. It is what it is.

[OregonSmock]

Brian Rohelder may have been able to shut down Pledger, but how would we know? He. Never. Got. The Chance.

You remind me of the nut hangers on phog.net who go ape sh*t whenever someone questions Self.  It's a message board... meant for discussion.  It's not a contest to see who is the best wannabe head coach.  

I have criticized Frank plenty for his roster mismanagement and wacky ass recruiting. But to say that you don't know Jeremy Jones sucks at defense is pretty stupid.

Is his offense good enough to offset his poor defense?  


(Sorry for taking my phog.net nut hanger frustration out on you, by the way - I enjoy 90% of your posts)

[kougar24]

You guys will blow out KU in the Manhattan, finish 4th in the conference, and all will be right with the world again.  Oklahoma is a lot more talented than people give them credit for, and they've got a very good coach.  KU recruited the sh*t out of Romero Osby before we "settled" for the Morris twins.  That team has some talent, but I do understand your frustration.  I think someone got it right when they said OU is this year's CU for K-State.

But noone listened to me 

We're not beating KU this year.  I actually think we have a better shot of winning @ Baylor than KU at home

You guys are going to beat the sh*t out of KU.  Our bench is garbage, and our coach/team will panic in that type of environment. 

Your bipolarity is amazing.

[michigancat]

Brian Rohelder may have been able to shut down Pledger, but how would we know? He. Never. Got. The Chance.

You remind me of the nut hangers on phog.net who go ape sh*t whenever someone questions Self.  It's a message board... meant for discussion.  It's not a contest to see who is the best wannabe head coach. 

I have criticized Frank plenty for his roster mismanagement and wacky ass recruiting. But to say that you don't know Jeremy Jones sucks at defense is pretty stupid.

Is his offense good enough to offset his poor defense? 


(Sorry for taking my phog.net nut hanger frustration out on you, by the way - I enjoy 90% of your posts)

Maybe. The problem with the argument that "Jones couldn't have done any worse on D" is that the defense Saturday was actually good overall. It could have easily been MUCH worse with Jones in the game. The perception is just clouded by Pledger going off. Jones may have been able to make up for it on offense, especialy after OU went zone.  I personally would have liked to see him get a shot, but I don't think it's anything close to a given that KSU wins if he does.

[Saulbadguy]

Frank got OUTCOACHED. This loss is on HIM !!!

[nicname]

I hate this talking point.  We've already been pretty damn close to great,if not actually great.  Getting a 2 seed isn't something to sneeze at.  We'll get there again under Frank.  

[OregonSmock]

You guys will blow out KU in the Manhattan, finish 4th in the conference, and all will be right with the world again.  Oklahoma is a lot more talented than people give them credit for, and they've got a very good coach.  KU recruited the sh*t out of Romero Osby before we "settled" for the Morris twins.  That team has some talent, but I do understand your frustration.  I think someone got it right when they said OU is this year's CU for K-State.

But noone listened to me 

We're not beating KU this year.  I actually think we have a better shot of winning @ Baylor than KU at home

You guys are going to beat the sh*t out of KU.  Our bench is garbage, and our coach/team will panic in that type of environment. 

Your bipolarity is amazing.

Had a rough few months.  Lay off. 

[kougar24]

You guys will blow out KU in the Manhattan, finish 4th in the conference, and all will be right with the world again.  Oklahoma is a lot more talented than people give them credit for, and they've got a very good coach.  KU recruited the sh*t out of Romero Osby before we "settled" for the Morris twins.  That team has some talent, but I do understand your frustration.  I think someone got it right when they said OU is this year's CU for K-State.

But noone listened to me 

We're not beating KU this year.  I actually think we have a better shot of winning @ Baylor than KU at home

You guys are going to beat the sh*t out of KU.  Our bench is garbage, and our coach/team will panic in that type of environment. 

Your bipolarity is amazing.

Had a rough few months.  Lay off. 

It was actually a compliment to your BBSing eliteness. You keep us on our toes, coming back for more.

[MakeItRain]

Brian Rohelder may have been able to shut down Pledger, but how would we know? He. Never. Got. The Chance.

You remind me of the nut hangers on phog.net who go ape sh*t whenever someone questions Self.  It's a message board... meant for discussion.  It's not a contest to see who is the best wannabe head coach. 

I have criticized Frank plenty for his roster mismanagement and wacky ass recruiting. But to say that you don't know Jeremy Jones sucks at defense is pretty stupid.

Is his offense good enough to offset his poor defense? 


(Sorry for taking my phog.net nut hanger frustration out on you, by the way - I enjoy 90% of your posts)

Maybe. The problem with the argument that "Jones couldn't have done any worse on D" is that the defense Saturday was actually good overall. It could have easily been MUCH worse with Jones in the game. The perception is just clouded by Pledger going off. Jones may have been able to make up for it on offense, especialy after OU went zone.  I personally would have liked to see him get a shot, but I don't think it's anything close to a given that KSU wins if he does.

I feel like nearly all of your posts on this subject have the intent of building up and then burning down strawmen.  No one thinks that it would have been close to a given that we won if jones and Southwell played.  Do you really think that people are that dumb?  The point here is that Frank had three guards that were struggling; one was in foul hell, the other two couldn't do anything else right, and those two have had no sustained success for any game since Hawaii.  Yet Frank continues to ram those square pegs in round holes.  How much more evidence of Spradling and Irving not having it right now do we need?  Southwell and Jones must be the worst practice players in the history of the world.

Also the post defense was very good, it sucked in Norman, the guards defended much worse this time.  They did nothing right.  The points that KU guards scored were obvious, but there were other things.  Those three live worked because we played so far off of the guards when they had the ball because that was the only way we could keep them in front of us.