Its 2027, what is Frank's legacy at K-State?

[michigancat]

I will take the over.

really?  11 years is a long time for a coach, anywhere.

I'll take the under for this exact reason.  

It's not a very good reason, because Frank's situation isn't like most coaches'.

[MakeItRain]

I will take the over.

really?  11 years is a long time for a coach, anywhere.

I'll take the under for this exact reason.  

It's not a very good reason, because Frank's situation isn't like most coaches'.

Aware, but crap happens, lots of crap when it comes to coaching.  Bet Tennesseeans thought the same thing 12 months ago.  Bet Penn St. didn't think their coach harbored a pederast.  You don't think UCONN wouldn't be interested in Frank if he went to a final four?  He's a much younger & palletable Jim Calhoun.

[MakeItRain]

I will take the over.

really?  11 years is a long time for a coach, anywhere.

I'll take the under for this exact reason.  Also when I saw the thread title my first thought was, will Frank even be alive that long?  Not trying to be morbid at all, just my thoughts.

I'm a huge Frankite so I think he's going to the final four very soon.

Not only has Frank out performed Snyder, but so has Deb, Susie Fritz, and Brad Hill is getting close.  Snyder's accomplishments weren't overwhelming on their own, they were great because of where K-State football was.  He isn't even top 5 in wins for active coaches, he has as many conference titles as Mind Gundy, John Macovic, RC Slocum, and Frank Solich.  KSU football fans have absolutely no sense of history or perspective.

LOL at you comparing other sports to football.  It is much harder to be good at football.  Football > everything

I could make the case it is much easier to win in football.  I'll point to Auburn as the example.  The top 10 teams have like 3 or 4 true challenges a year to make the National Championship , and routinely we've seen a team lose one of those challenges and still get a shot.  In every other sport you have to get to the post season and then you have to win 6 in a row against the best of the best, one loss and you're done.  It's also important to note that in basketball you have many more legit challengers to the contenders.  Not to mention that you don't even have to actually win a national championship game to win a football national championship

[michigancat]

 You don't think UCONN wouldn't be interested in Frank if he went to a final four?  He's a much younger & palletable Jim Calhoun.

I think they'd be interested, but I don't think he'd be very high on their list. Depends a lot on their timing.

[CHONGS]

I am not assuming Frank is either alive or at K-State in 2027, just that it is fifteen years later.  Enough time to hopefully accurately asses his legacy or lack thereof.

[MakeItRain]

I am not assuming Frank is either alive or at K-State in 2027, just that it is fifteen years later.  Enough time to hopefully accurately asses his legacy or lack thereof.

In that case I think he's already done enough to be viewed as one of the best.  I think by 2027 most of the people who have issues with Frank's sideline demeanor will be gone away.  That's his only negative mark to this point.  Zacker and Dax's recruiting complaint doesn't stick when it comes to legacy because he wins.  Second best in the conference since he's been here.  If he doesn't go to a final four and win a conference title his legacy will be one of disappointment with many KSU fans because of Bill Self and how they use KU as a measuring stick for literally everything.

[nicname]

All that really matters is consistently being a top 3/4 team in the league over time.  Do that and you have a program.  Do that and the occasional high NCAA seeds will come, as will the occasional conference titles and to a lesser extent deep NCAA runs.  That type of consistency will also lead to a culture of winning, which I believe we already have to an extent, and will lead to some years where teams not thought of as the "great"teams surprise in March.  I don't know how long Frank will be here, and I have limited expectations of what his successor could accomplish, but I believe Frank can accomplish the above.  Frankly, I would love to be along for that ride. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  Eddie Sutton at OSU is what I'm hoping for out of Frank and KSU bball. 

[nicname]

It kind of goes along with my reaction to the sentiment of 09-10 when some were calling that year our last shot.  Saying if we didn't get to a final four we never would, etc.  That is such a ridiculous thought process with the way the NCAA tournament is structured.  Earning the occasional high seed is what matters, then you let the marbles fall from there.

[nicname]

I will take the over.

really?  11 years is a long time for a coach, anywhere.

Yeah. He's very similar to Eddie Sutton at OSU. Just dirty enough to keep the blue bloods away, clearly good enough to not get fired.

Agreed.

[nicname]

Sys, Snyder beats KU. That's the only reason everyone loves him so much.  Other than that he's probably accomplished less than Frank at this point.

That's a really dumb statement.  When the throes of passion for Snyder were at their utmost KU was an afterthought. 

[WillieWatanabe]

didn't really read much of this thread. however, as it stands now.... The last 4 years have been amazing....if we have any similar success in the future, I'll be happy as crap. Being relevant is all the matters to me.

[felix rex]

I will take the over.

really?  11 years is a long time for a coach, anywhere.

Yeah. He's very similar to Eddie Sutton at OSU. Just dirty enough to keep the blue bloods away, clearly good enough to not get fired.

Would take. But over 15 years, I'd need a conference championship. With our fanbase being distorted by KU, that's the king maker. Again,that's speaking as a self-aware but unapologetic drive-by fan. Consistent tourney appearances, engaging top-4 finishes, and just a few good runs in both secured by a confy title of some sort would guarantee him "banner" status.  Our expectations aren't excessive by any means, but do have certain make-or-break statutes. IMO, Frank's a victim of his own short-term success, b/c it made people like me re-establish that kind of benchmark.  He could be Bo Ryan in a better conference and not be properly appreciated in 3-4 years.

[wabash909]

At this point just in terms of overall record, Frank draws a lot similarities to Jack Hartman.  But the defining difference at this stage are the big wins in conference.

Jack was head coach for 16 years at K-State and won three conference titles and two conference tournament titles.  Two of the three Big 8 titles came in his second and third season.  He also took us to four Elite 8's and two Sweet 16's.  Never did make it to a Final 4.

To be spoken of in the same light down the road as some of the greats, Frank is obviously going to have to break through and win a league title, at the very least a league tournament title ala. Mike Anderson here shortly.

[CatsFan_58]

Sys, Snyder beats KU. That's the only reason everyone loves him so much.  Other than that he's probably accomplished less than Frank at this point.

That's a really dumb statement.  When the throes of passion for Snyder were at their utmost KU was an afterthought. 

It is not a dumb statement.

[catzacker]

I am not assuming Frank is either alive or at K-State in 2027, just that it is fifteen years later.  Enough time to hopefully accurately asses his legacy or lack thereof.

In that case I think he's already done enough to be viewed as one of the best.  I think by 2027 most of the people who have issues with Frank's sideline demeanor will be gone away.  That's his only negative mark to this point.  Zacker and Dax's recruiting complaint doesn't stick when it comes to legacy because he wins.  Second best in the conference since he's been here.  If he doesn't go to a final four and win a conference title his legacy will be one of disappointment with many KSU fans because of Bill Self and how they use KU as a measuring stick for literally everything.

if he's here for another 7 years and doesn't win a title, doesn't get to the final four (or a couple of elite 8's or something impressive in the NCAA tourney), then what has he won? KU isn't the measuring stick.  Jack Hartman would be iin terms of winning combined with league titles.  But again, "modern era" is a vague term and if we're just comparing to coaches from Lon forward, then Frank is better than them.  Hang a banner, I suppose.  Also, the "recruiting complaint" is in direct correlation to winning championships.  Recruit better  and that more than likely means you're winning championships.

[MakeItRain]

I am not assuming Frank is either alive or at K-State in 2027, just that it is fifteen years later.  Enough time to hopefully accurately asses his legacy or lack thereof.

In that case I think he's already done enough to be viewed as one of the best.  I think by 2027 most of the people who have issues with Frank's sideline demeanor will be gone away.  That's his only negative mark to this point.  Zacker and Dax's recruiting complaint doesn't stick when it comes to legacy because he wins.  Second best in the conference since he's been here.  If he doesn't go to a final four and win a conference title his legacy will be one of disappointment with many KSU fans because of Bill Self and how they use KU as a measuring stick for literally everything.

if he's here for another 7 years and doesn't win a title, doesn't get to the final four (or a couple of elite 8's or something impressive in the NCAA tourney), then what has he won? KU isn't the measuring stick.  Jack Hartman would be iin terms of winning combined with league titles.  But again, "modern era" is a vague term and if we're just comparing to coaches from Lon forward, then Frank is better than them.  Hang a banner, I suppose.  Also, the "recruiting complaint" is in direct correlation to winning championships.  Recruit better  and that more than likely means you're winning championships.

Yeah I didn't articulate that properly, of course he will need to win something of significance and it will need to be long before 7 years from now.

[CNS]

Guys, elite 8's matter.  People seem to be forgetting how awesome that was.  It was really, really awesome.

Yeah, I would even back off and say Sweet 16's matter a bunch. Look around.  How many sweet sixteens do our conf buddies have.  The NC or bust discussion is probably the most Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) discussion this side of the PigAggie board.

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[CNS]

didn't really read much of this thread. however, as it stands now.... The last 4 years have been amazing....if we have any similar success in the future, I'll be happy as crap. Being relevant is all the matters to me.

We've been more than relevant.  We've been sucessful. If every year could be like one of the last 4, I would double my donation.

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[ChiComCat]

didn't really read much of this thread. however, as it stands now.... The last 4 years have been amazing....if we have any similar success in the future, I'll be happy as crap. Being relevant is all the matters to me.

We've been more than relevant.  We've been sucessful. If every year could be like one of the last 4, I would double my donation.

Sent from my MB611 using Tapatalk

If you haven't yet, you never will

[CNS]

didn't really read much of this thread. however, as it stands now.... The last 4 years have been amazing....if we have any similar success in the future, I'll be happy as crap. Being relevant is all the matters to me.

We've been more than relevant.  We've been sucessful. If every year could be like one of the last 4, I would double my donation.

Sent from my MB611 using Tapatalk

If you haven't yet, you never will

I actually went from non-donation seats to donation seats this year. 

Boom

[michigancat]

I personally couldn't give two shits about phillips 66 tourney wins. They are selection sunday afterthoughts.

[MakeItRain]

I personally couldn't give two shits about phillips 66 tourney wins. They are selection sunday afterthoughts.

Frank has set winning trophies as a clear goal for his program, being one of the few true unwavering Frankites left I'm on board with it.

[bigwillie20]

I personally couldn't give two shits about phillips 66 tourney wins. They are selection sunday afterthoughts.

pfffff....idiot.  Better cheer for a couple 66 wins this year or you'll look more Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) than CU's team on selection sunday last year.  (hint: we aren't making the tourney this year dumbass)

[8manpick]

I personally couldn't give two shits about phillips 66 tourney wins. They are selection sunday afterthoughts.

Frank has set winning trophies as a clear goal for his program, being one of the few true unwavering Frankites left I'm on board with it.

 

[EMAWzified]

I'm unwavering in my support for Frank. I just realistic, knowing something within drives him to make every season a struggle.