You don't want to look (Balyor official advanced stats)...

[kougar24]

I remember our players playing like crap every year in Columbia and getting run out of the gym. I don't recall Frank costing us a game there with questionable decisions. I'll have to look that game up.

we were basically owning MU, then in like the last 5-8 minutes, MU starts to come back.  Jacob Pullen, however, was sitting on the bench getting Frank'd.  Frank refused to put pullen in. 

That rings a bell, thanks.

[EMAWzified]

Oh yeah, everybody was mad at Frank after that MU game. It was the first on after the KU victory and Frank refused to play Pullen and went deep to the bench in the first half we had a sizable lead.

[kougar24]

Oh yeah, everybody was mad at Frank after that MU game. It was the first on after the KU victory and Frank refused to play Pullen and went deep to the bench in the first half we had a sizable lead.

Damn, we led the entire game until the 2:03 mark in the 2nd half.

Pullen got subbed out for good at the 5:39 mark, after a 15-7 Mizzou run to close to within 1 at 67-66.

Lost 77-74 after being up 60-51.

[sys]

good job, michigancat.



lol @ discussing anything other than 37.3%.

[MakeItRain]

good job, michigancat.



lol @ discussing anything other than 37.3%.

Yep.  This thread is an embarrassment. 

I had no problems with Frank's substitution pattern last night.  I love 'Tay but asking the third best ball handler to be the guy who brings the ball up in crunch time is really dumb.  How often do we see Irving bring the ball up and initiate the offense under normal circumstances?  There's a reason for that, to ask him to do so at that point   None of you were crying about Angel when he was making plays.  You take the bad with the good.  You don't get to have a freshman point guard making plays late in the game and get that without mistakes.  I guess we can just get another ball mover to pass back and forth 35 feet from the basket, is that what we want?

Why are people whining about Frank having Gipson in late when he picked up the travel?  Doesn't the fact that he was wide open for the lay up prove that he was the right person in the game at the time?  He was placed in a position to succeed and he walked, how is that the coaches fault?  Are we just assuming that JO would have gotten to that spot on the block and would have converted?  Sounds amazingly presumptuous.

I find it amazing that people can complain about coaching decisions when 99% of the time they don't have a clue as to what they are critiquing.  We can't see the plays being drawn up, or the options the coach are making available.  All the work in basketball is done in practice, recruiting, and developing a culture.  It isn't football, they don't reset every single play to give the players and coaches a chance to adjust.  Playcalling isn't the focus, execution is.  We play 8 players; five starters, one guard off of the bench, one forward, and one big.  It should be expected at this point for all of them to execute regardless of what reasonable combination of 5 is on the floor.



/rant

[catzacker]

gip had 20 minutes of crap play preceding his final 2 minutes of crap play.  why, on god's green earth, did frank expect the final 2 to be any different than the other 20?  Frank freaking bemoans angel  for turning it over and yet he subs in angel at the end?  (he didn't say angel, but said "when your point guard turns it over 2 straight times with a 4 point lead under 5 minutes, you can't expect to win" or something like in the post game - that was angel).

in '08, Frank had fred brown taking the final shot against MU because he was too stubborn to put in pullen.  in 09 he waited until ku capped a 15-0 run to sub out dom and put in fred brown to try SOMETHING different against the triangle/2 that self was using.  hell, he waited the entire game against whisky in the tournament. 

[MakeItRain]

gip had 20 minutes of crap play preceding his final 2 minutes of crap play.  why, on god's green earth, did frank expect the final 2 to be any different than the other 20?  Frank freaking bemoans angel  for turning it over and yet he subs in angel at the end?  (he didn't say angel, but said "when your point guard turns it over 2 straight times with a 4 point lead under 5 minutes, you can't expect to win" or something like in the post game - that was angel).

in '08, Frank had fred brown taking the final shot against MU because he was too stubborn to put in pullen.  in 09 he waited until ku capped a 15-0 run to sub out dom and put in fred brown to try SOMETHING different against the triangle/2 that self was using.  hell, he waited the entire game against whisky in the tournament. 

Who else should he have had handling the ball?  None of you substitution people have mentioned this.

[pissclams]

gipson wasn't open fwiw, when he traveled.  he had a man on his back, hence the dribble/pivot move he made and the travel.  jamar was the one that was wide open.

[catzacker]

Tay's awfulness netted him 2 TO's in 24 minutes, Angel's awesomeness had 4 TO's in 7 minutes.  I dunno.  

[pissclams]

"you take the good with the bad" is something you say about a player like tyshawn taylor who provides  the good that others on the team cannot.  not a freshman point guard who is still making his bones. 

as it relates to angel and tuesday night, his bad cost us the game and far outweighed the good.  /thread

[michigancat]

Tay's awfulness netted him 2 TO's in 24 minutes, Angel's awesomeness had 4 TO's in 7 minutes.  I dunno. 

JO only had 1 TO in 27 minutes. Clearly, Jordan Henriquez should have been running the point in that situation.

[catzacker]

Tay's awfulness netted him 2 TO's in 24 minutes, Angel's awesomeness had 4 TO's in 7 minutes.  I dunno.  

JO only had 1 TO in 27 minutes. Clearly, Jordan Henriquez should have been running the point in that situation.

comparing a post player to a guard is entirely more relevant than comparing a guard to a guard.  clearly.  

and your idiotic comparison only highlights why gip shouldn't have been in there (save for a frank martin temper tantrum substituion) because gip had 3 TO's in 22 minutes.  

[bigwillie20]

Tay's awfulness netted him 2 TO's in 24 minutes, Angel's awesomeness had 4 TO's in 7 minutes.  I dunno. 

JO only had 1 TO in 27 minutes. Clearly, Jordan Henriquez should have been running the point in that situation.

 

[michigancat]

Tay's awfulness netted him 2 TO's in 24 minutes, Angel's awesomeness had 4 TO's in 7 minutes.  I dunno. 

JO only had 1 TO in 27 minutes. Clearly, Jordan Henriquez should have been running the point in that situation.

comparing a post player to a guard is entirely more relevant than comparing a guard to a guard.  clearly. 

And you're comparing a guard that brings the ball up all the time when he's on the court to a guard that never brings up the ball when he's on the court. If you would argue that Will should have had the ball in his hands, I could understand what you're saying. But this Martavious crap is just stupid.

[catzacker]

didn't angel inbound the ball on the last play?

i've watch tay bring it up plenty.  he actually brought it up and got it picked when baylor trapped a high screen, iirc, against prior to angel's back2back to's.   and obviously, frank thinks that if someone's going to handle the ball it's going to be angel over tay. 

i didn't understand why it was imperative that frank sub in angel for tay.  nor did I understand subbing in gip for JO. 

[Kat Kid]

good job, michigancat.



lol @ discussing anything other than 37.3%.

Yep.  This thread is an embarrassment. 

I had no problems with Frank's substitution pattern last night.  I love 'Tay but asking the third best ball handler to be the guy who brings the ball up in crunch time is really dumb.  How often do we see Irving bring the ball up and initiate the offense under normal circumstances?  There's a reason for that, to ask him to do so at that point   None of you were crying about Angel when he was making plays.  You take the bad with the good.  You don't get to have a freshman point guard making plays late in the game and get that without mistakes.  I guess we can just get another ball mover to pass back and forth 35 feet from the basket, is that what we want?
Why are people whining about Frank having Gipson in late when he picked up the travel?  Doesn't the fact that he was wide open for the lay up prove that he was the right person in the game at the time?  He was placed in a position to succeed and he walked, how is that the coaches fault?  Are we just assuming that JO would have gotten to that spot on the block and would have converted?  Sounds amazingly presumptuous.

I find it amazing that people can complain about coaching decisions when 99% of the time they don't have a clue as to what they are critiquing.  We can't see the plays being drawn up, or the options the coach are making available.  All the work in basketball is done in practice, recruiting, and developing a culture.  It isn't football, they don't reset every single play to give the players and coaches a chance to adjust.  Playcalling isn't the focus, execution is.  We play 8 players; five starters, one guard off of the bench, one forward, and one big.  It should be expected at this point for all of them to execute regardless of what reasonable combination of 5 is on the floor.



/rant

Good idea, but maybe we could just have that person coach up Angel on how to do that.

[kso_FAN]

None of you were crying about Angel when he was making plays.  You take the bad with the good.  You don't get to have a freshman point guard making plays late in the game and get that without mistakes.  I guess we can just get another ball mover to pass back and forth 35 feet from the basket, is that what we want?

Frank made a declaration to his team, to the fans, to Angel, (to whoever is paying attention) that good, bad, or indifferent Angel is the guy he wants to have the ball when the game is on the line. He reinforced that decision by putting Angel back in the game for the last possession after he took him out after the two TOs. In many ways this was a long term decision, not unlike other Franking around decisions he has made in the past with personel. Granted, Frank made a reactionary decision after the game with some of his comments, but the declaration has been made. Now the interesting thing to watch is if Frank is going to remain consistent with Angel as his point guard in big situations, or if he'll scale back and work him back in slowly. But either way the statement is made, Frank will careful with Angel but his plan is for Angel to be the primary ball handler when the game is on the line, why else do you throw him out there in a key game at home against the #4 team in the country, it certainly wasn't done on a whim.

[MakeItRain]

gipson wasn't open fwiw, when he traveled.  he had a man on his back, hence the dribble/pivot move he made and the travel.  jamar was the one that was wide open.

The defender was on his left hip, he was spinning right and there was no help there, it happened right in front of my face.  There may have been a defender there, but he was clearly in a scoring position.

[Trim]

gipson wasn't open fwiw, when he traveled.  he had a man on his back, hence the dribble/pivot move he made and the travel.  jamar was the one that was wide open.

The defender was on his left hip, he was spinning right and there was no help there, it happened right in front of my face.  There may have been a defender there, but he was clearly in a scoring position.

My face was closer.  He traveled before making the obvious dump-off to a wide-open Jam for a double-pump layup.

[michigancat]

I didn't think he traveled on either of his travels. But I'm a pretty big homer.

[Trim]

I didn't think he traveled on either of his travels. But I'm a pretty big homer.

Yeah, I should clarify - he was called for traveling before he could make the wide-open pass.  Go Cats.

[MakeItRain]

None of you were crying about Angel when he was making plays.  You take the bad with the good.  You don't get to have a freshman point guard making plays late in the game and get that without mistakes.  I guess we can just get another ball mover to pass back and forth 35 feet from the basket, is that what we want?

Frank made a declaration to his team, to the fans, to Angel, (to whoever is paying attention) that good, bad, or indifferent Angel is the guy he wants to have the ball when the game is on the line. He reinforced that decision by putting Angel back in the game for the last possession after he took him out after the two TOs. In many ways this was a long term decision, not unlike other Franking around decisions he has made in the past with personel. Granted, Frank made a reactionary decision after the game with some of his comments, but the declaration has been made. Now the interesting thing to watch is if Frank is going to remain consistent with Angel as his point guard in big situations, or if he'll scale back and work him back in slowly. But either way the statement is made, Frank will careful with Angel but his plan is for Angel to be the primary ball handler when the game is on the line, why else do you throw him out there in a key game at home against the #4 team in the country, it certainly wasn't done on a whim.

To an extent I agree, but I do think that this is can/will be situational.  We all know and have known since 08'-'09 that Frank prefers two ball handlers on the court.  This season Angel will take on the ball handling role of Denis and Will will be playing Jake's ball handling role.  Angel is the man, but if the matchup is beneficial Spradling will run the offense.  On Tuesday none of the guards had a favorable matchup and all three showed a propensity to turn it over.  Frank correctly gave the ball to the best playmaker.  Just like in 08-09 people will bitch when the playmaker makes late game mistakes.  The decision to give Angel the ball late in close games is the right decision today and tomorrow, just as it was in '08-'09.  

[MakeItRain]

I didn't think he traveled on either of his travels. But I'm a pretty big homer.

Yeah, I should clarify - he was called for traveling before he could make the wide-open pass.  Go Cats.

I thought he did, but I am not 100% certain.  The pivot foot on spin moves can be tricky and most television replays don't get a good look.

[pissclams]

gipson wasn't open fwiw, when he traveled.  he had a man on his back, hence the dribble/pivot move he made and the travel.  jamar was the one that was wide open.

The defender was on his left hip, he was spinning right and there was no help there, it happened right in front of my face.  There may have been a defender there, but he was clearly in a scoring position.

my face was closer than both of your faces to my 54 inch television.   no one said there was help defense there.  jamar was the open man, not gipson.  good grief.

[Fuktard]

None of you were crying about Angel when he was making plays.  You take the bad with the good.  You don't get to have a freshman point guard making plays late in the game and get that without mistakes.  I guess we can just get another ball mover to pass back and forth 35 feet from the basket, is that what we want?

Frank made a declaration to his team, to the fans, to Angel, (to whoever is paying attention) that good, bad, or indifferent Angel is the guy he wants to have the ball when the game is on the line. He reinforced that decision by putting Angel back in the game for the last possession after he took him out after the two TOs. In many ways this was a long term decision, not unlike other Franking around decisions he has made in the past with personel. Granted, Frank made a reactionary decision after the game with some of his comments, but the declaration has been made. Now the interesting thing to watch is if Frank is going to remain consistent with Angel as his point guard in big situations, or if he'll scale back and work him back in slowly. But either way the statement is made, Frank will careful with Angel but his plan is for Angel to be the primary ball handler when the game is on the line, why else do you throw him out there in a key game at home against the #4 team in the country, it certainly wasn't done on a whim.

To an extent I agree, but I do think that this is can/will be situational.  We all know and have known since 08'-'09 that Frank prefers two ball handlers on the court.  This season Angel will take on the ball handling role of Denis and Will will be playing Jake's ball handling role.  Angel is the man, but if the matchup is beneficial Spradling will run the offense.  On Tuesday none of the guards had a favorable matchup and all three showed a propensity to turn it over.  Frank correctly gave the ball to the best playmaker.  Just like in 08-09 people will bitch when the playmaker makes late game mistakes.  The decision to give Angel the ball late in close games is the right decision today and tomorrow, just as it was in '08-'09.  

Just curious, what plays has the "playmaker" made?  Getting a wide open layup when it counts the most does NOT count if you get poke picked from behind before you get the layup put up.  He has done NOTHING to be considered a "playmaker"  What _fan said is exactly the case, Frank has made his choice and now he has to live with it (and I actually think it's ok...I'm not mad at him for having Angel in there, I'm mad at Angel for making boneheaded mistakes, but hope it pays off at a later date).  Angel will get better and I hope he learned from his late game mistakes, but to consider him our "playmaker" is ludicrous.  He ahsn't had many chances to even make a play, but when he did in the Baylor game, he stubbed his toe.