Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition

[kso_FAN]

PP: Noel Schultz

kstate_1stlady Noel Schulz
like playing fb in Jan, we manage @kstate_pres: We drove them very carefully! €œ@jhawkguy:How did they get all those farm trucks to Hawaii?

NN: Frank's experimental defenses and line-ups.  I realize that it's LBSU's fault for sucking (looking at you Casper) but I got a little frustrated

I thought the same. I really like the 3-2, but I thought we stayed with it too long. And it wasn't doing what he typically wants; forcing opponents to use 20 or more seconds of shot clock before a shot.

we must have been watching different games...the zone took the air out of the ball especially in the last 3 minutes.  I commented several times that LB was having to use a TON of clock to get a shot.  I thought the zone worked fantastic and I LOVE the fact that Frank has added it to his game.  The only negative is our rebounding when we are in it is not up to par.

Late in the game it started to slow them down again, but there were also times they would just drive the ball early and get inside for a kick, a quick shot, or draw a foul. Plus as you said our rebounding put of it was terrible. I didn't think it was awful, I just thought we went to it early and stayed in it a long time.

[catzacker]

PP

 - Irving:  just fantastic on both ends.  
 - Figgs:  I appreciate a man who wears an undershirt under a low first button shirt because he knows he can't let the tiger out some others can. There's some humbleness to that, and I appreciate it.  
 - McGruds:  I've always loved you.  
 - Jamar: a very nice game.  Didn't try to do too much (4:1 A:T) but did exactly what he should (11pts, 8rb),  and was in the game to do it (3 fouls)
 - Will:  I thought he'd look like Andy Dufrane fighting off the sisters out there, but he did a nice job.

NN

Gip:  right hand bro, right hand. Also, Don't like him in blacks because I can't see his nipples.
Angel:  didn't do very much bad, but not much good, at all either.  maybe he's a Melby Meh instead of a Negative Nancy?


Overall, imo, probably the best effort I've seen out of this team.  Was blown away with our perimeter defense on Casper and that was the best "offense" I think we ran all year.  Granted, when McGruds is going to hit 90% of his FG's, we're going to look good, but still.  

bubble team.

[sys]

i'm surprised that zacker is capable of seeing, much less typing, peggies.

[Pete]

Southwell is a less athletic Dom Sutton.

Love Dom.  Love Southwell.

Some speculated when we landed Southwell that he'd be another Hakeem. I said "will take."  It's turning out that way, and I still still "will take."

[Kat Kid]

Southwell is a less athletic Dom Sutton.

Love Dom.  Love Southwell.

Some speculated when we landed Southwell that he'd be another Hakeem. I said "will take."  It's turning out that way, and I still still "will take."

Is it?  Akeem Wright was/is a better defender than Shane.  I don't think there should be real discussion about this.  Now granted I'm not capable of remembering every nuance of Akeem's career and their soph/soph stat sheets kind of look similar, but I have to believe Shane's stats are helped by the players around him.  The last thing I'll complain about.  Shane does not rebound.  This is probably my biggest problem with him.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=shane-southwell&chart=steals_avg&i=1&p1=akeem-wright#chart

[sys]

wright was an amazing rebounder and defender.  people are underremembering him.

[Kat Kid]

wright was an amazing rebounder and defender.  people are underremembering him.

Thank you.

[yosh]

Southwell is a less athletic Dom Sutton.

Love Dom.  Love Southwell.

Some speculated when we landed Southwell that he'd be another Hakeem. I said "will take."  It's turning out that way, and I still still "will take."

Is it?  Akeem Wright was/is a better defender than Shane.  I don't think there should be real discussion about this.  Now granted I'm not capable of remembering every nuance of Akeem's career and their soph/soph stat sheets kind of look similar, but I have to believe Shane's stats are helped by the players around him.  The last thing I'll complain about.  Shane does not rebound.  This is probably my biggest problem with him.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=shane-southwell&chart=steals_avg&i=1&p1=akeem-wright#chart

pretty sure those are Akeem's SR year stats, unless it's from JUCO or something.  I think the Freshman year stats from that site would be Akeems JR year....but yeah, if your point was that Akeem Wright was slightly better as a SR, than Southwell is as a Soph, then fantastic work.   

[kso_FAN]

Southwell is a less athletic Dom Sutton.

Love Dom.  Love Southwell.

Some speculated when we landed Southwell that he'd be another Hakeem. I said "will take."  It's turning out that way, and I still still "will take."

Is it?  Akeem Wright was/is a better defender than Shane.  I don't think there should be real discussion about this.  Now granted I'm not capable of remembering every nuance of Akeem's career and their soph/soph stat sheets kind of look similar, but I have to believe Shane's stats are helped by the players around him.  The last thing I'll complain about.  Shane does not rebound.  This is probably my biggest problem with him.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=shane-southwell&chart=steals_avg&i=1&p1=akeem-wright#chart

pretty sure those are Akeem's SR year stats, unless it's from JUCO or something.  I think the Freshman year stats from that site would be Akeems JR year....but yeah, if your point was that Akeem Wright was slightly better as a SR, than Southwell is as a Soph, then fantastic work.   

Agree completely, Wright/Shane comparisons are tough because we only saw Wright as a JR/SR and with two different coaching styles. Wright had played 1-3 in JUCO, with a lot of PG duties. They are different, but I still think comparisons to Wright are more accurate than comparisons to Sutton.

[_33]

wright was an amazing rebounder and defender.  people are underremembering him.

Remember when he shut down Thomas Gardner? Awesome.

[_33]

wright was an amazing rebounder and defender.  people are underremembering him.

Remember when he shut down Thomas Gardner? Awesome.

I tried to start an "Akeem" chant that night but no one would join in. Then later I started a pretty good slow clap.

[Kat Kid]

Southwell is a less athletic Dom Sutton.

Love Dom.  Love Southwell.

Some speculated when we landed Southwell that he'd be another Hakeem. I said "will take."  It's turning out that way, and I still still "will take."

Is it?  Akeem Wright was/is a better defender than Shane.  I don't think there should be real discussion about this.  Now granted I'm not capable of remembering every nuance of Akeem's career and their soph/soph stat sheets kind of look similar, but I have to believe Shane's stats are helped by the players around him.  The last thing I'll complain about.  Shane does not rebound.  This is probably my biggest problem with him.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=shane-southwell&chart=steals_avg&i=1&p1=akeem-wright#chart

pretty sure those are Akeem's SR year stats, unless it's from JUCO or something.  I think the Freshman year stats from that site would be Akeems JR year....but yeah, if your point was that Akeem Wright was slightly better as a SR, than Southwell is as a Soph, then fantastic work.  

Yeah, I realized the soph/soph thing as I typed it and thought I edited.  Sorry about that.

As far as the comparison goes?  I think the rebounding is legitimate concern, I think the defense is not as good.  If we're supposed to be looking "beyond the box score" for Shane's value, then this is what we talk about.

[Kat Kid]

In other disturbing news......

This statistical comparison is still unflattering as hell to McOreb's.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&i=1&p1=gilson-dejesus

[Pete]

Wait, so it's Akeem and not Hakeem?

[Underdog Wildcat]

In other disturbing news......

This statistical comparison is still unflattering as hell to McOreb's.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&i=1&p1=gilson-dejesus

Another case where a player's JC status is throwing the statsheet comparo for a loop. That's actually DeJesus' SR yr. DeJesus really did develop into a reliable spot up shooter from deep and tough rebounder that year, but you've also got to consider the frontline he was playing alongside consisted of Pasco, Seibrandt, and Hayden - more boards to go around with that crew than Samuels, Henriquez, and Gip. Plus, Dejesus basically had NOTHING off the dribble, not that Gruds is looking like Chris Paul out there but he's done a nice job of getting into the lane lately and getting out and finishing in transition.

Gruds shooting troubles so far have been worrisome, but hopefully he's turned a corner. Can't really expect 10-11 every game but would really like to see him creep into mid 30's from 3. His JYC game though, is and always has been top notch.

[yosh]

Southwell is a less athletic Dom Sutton.

Love Dom.  Love Southwell.

Some speculated when we landed Southwell that he'd be another Hakeem. I said "will take."  It's turning out that way, and I still still "will take."

Is it?  Akeem Wright was/is a better defender than Shane.  I don't think there should be real discussion about this.  Now granted I'm not capable of remembering every nuance of Akeem's career and their soph/soph stat sheets kind of look similar, but I have to believe Shane's stats are helped by the players around him.  The last thing I'll complain about.  Shane does not rebound.  This is probably my biggest problem with him.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=shane-southwell&chart=steals_avg&i=1&p1=akeem-wright#chart

pretty sure those are Akeem's SR year stats, unless it's from JUCO or something.  I think the Freshman year stats from that site would be Akeems JR year....but yeah, if your point was that Akeem Wright was slightly better as a SR, than Southwell is as a Soph, then fantastic work.  

Yeah, I realized the soph/soph thing as I typed it and thought I edited.  Sorry about that.

As far as the comparison goes?  I think the rebounding is legitimate concern, I think the defense is not as good.  If we're supposed to be looking "beyond the box score" for Shane's value, then this is what we talk about.

 

I have no problem looking at the box score and seeing value.    

 If Shane can manage to not get Franked, I would suspect his and AWs upperclassmen years will be pretty similar.

Watch this period of timeon ESPN3 when you get the chance.  If you still don't see any value in Southwell, I suppose you might not ever.

SUB IN : Southwell, Shane                       15:25
SUB OUT: McGruder, Rodney                       15:25
MISSED 3 PTR by McGruder, Rodney                15:18
REBOUND (OFF) by Southwell, Shane               15:18
MISSED JUMPER by Samuels, Jamar                 15:13              REBOUND (DEF) by Lang, Cedrick
                                                14:58   8-11  V 3  GOOD! LAYUP by Lang, Cedrick [PNT]
                                                14:58              ASSIST by Streeter, Jacques
                                                14:31              FOUL by McCulley, Gabriel (P2T3)
SUB IN : Henriquez, Jordan                      14:31              SUB IN : Bohannon, John
SUB OUT: Gipson, Thomas                         14:31
GOOD! FT SHOT by Henriquez, Jordan              14:30   9-11  V 2  FOUL by Bohannon, John (P1T4)
MISSED FT SHOT by Henriquez, Jordan             14:30              REBOUND (DEF) by Bohannon, John
FOUL by Henriquez, Jordan (P1T4)                14:09   9-12  V 3  GOOD! FT SHOT by Lang, Cedrick
                                                14:09   9-13  V 4  GOOD! FT SHOT by Lang, Cedrick
SUB IN : Gipson, Thomas                         14:09
SUB IN : Irving, Martavious                     14:09
SUB OUT: Samuels, Jamar                         14:09
SUB OUT: Spradling, Will                        14:09
GOOD! JUMPER by Irving, Martavious [PNT]        13:55  11-13  V 2
                                                13:33              TURNOVR by Bohannon, John
MISSED JUMPER by Southwell, Shane               13:17              REBOUND (DEF) by Lang, Cedrick
                                                12:53  11-16  V 5  GOOD! 3 PTR by Perez, Michael
                                                12:53              ASSIST by Bohannon, John
MISSED JUMPER by Rodriguez, Angel               12:26
REBOUND (OFF) by Gipson, Thomas                 12:26
GOOD! JUMPER by Gipson, Thomas [PNT]            12:23  13-16  V 3
FOUL by Gipson, Thomas (P2T5)                   11:59
                                                11:59              TIMEOUT MEDIA
                                                11:59              MISSED FT SHOT by Streeter, Jacques
                                                11:59              REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)
                                                11:59  13-17  V 4  GOOD! FT SHOT by Streeter, Jacques
SUB IN : Samuels, Jamar                         11:59
SUB IN : Spradling, Will                        11:59
SUB IN : McGruder, Rodney                       11:59
SUB OUT: Gipson, Thomas                         11:59
SUB OUT: Irving, Martavious                     11:59
SUB OUT: Rodriguez, Angel                       11:59
MISSED JUMPER by McGruder, Rodney               11:29
REBOUND (OFF) by Samuels, Jamar                 11:29
GOOD! FT SHOT by Samuels, Jamar                 11:27  14-17  V 3  FOUL by Lang, Cedrick (P1T5)
GOOD! FT SHOT by Samuels, Jamar                 11:27  15-17  V 2
                                                11:16              TURNOVR by Streeter, Jacques
GOOD! JUMPER by Henriquez, Jordan [PNT]         10:59  17-17  T 4
ASSIST by Southwell, Shane                      10:59
FOUL by McGruder, Rodney (P2T6)                 10:51              MISSED FT SHOT by Streeter, Jacques
                                                10:51              REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)
                                                10:51  17-18  V 1  GOOD! FT SHOT by Streeter, Jacques
SUB IN : Irving, Martavious                     10:51
SUB OUT: McGruder, Rodney                       10:51
MISSED 3 PTR by Irving, Martavious              10:35              REBOUND (DEF) by Bohannon, John
                                                10:10              TURNOVR by Bohannon, John
                                                10:10              FOUL by Bohannon, John (P2T6)
                                                10:10              SUB IN : Perry, Kevin
                                                10:10              SUB OUT: Bohannon, John
MISSED JUMPER by Samuels, Jamar                 09:51
REBOUND (OFF) by Samuels, Jamar                 09:51
MISSED LAYUP by Spradling, Will                 09:45
REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)                     09:45
GOOD! FT SHOT by Spradling, Will                09:31  18-18  T 5  FOUL by Perry, Kevin (P1T7)
GOOD! FT SHOT by Spradling, Will                09:31  19-18  H 1
                                                09:31              SUB IN : McCulley, Gabriel
                                                09:31              SUB OUT: Perry, Kevin
                                                09:24              TURNOVR by Perez, Michael
STEAL by Irving, Martavious                     09:22
MISSED LAYUP by Irving, Martavious              09:20              REBOUND (DEF) by McCulley, Gabriel
                                                09:18              TURNOVR by McCulley, Gabriel
SUB IN : Jones, Jeremy                          09:18
SUB OUT: Irving, Martavious                     09:18
GOOD! JUMPER by Jones, Jeremy                   09:14  21-18  H 3
ASSIST by Spradling, Will                       09:14
                                                09:00              TURNOVR by (TEAM)
MISSED JUMPER by Samuels, Jamar                 08:42
REBOUND (OFF) by Henriquez, Jordan              08:42
MISSED FT SHOT by Henriquez, Jordan             08:40              FOUL by Perez, Michael (P1T8)
REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)                     08:40
GOOD! FT SHOT by Henriquez, Jordan              08:40  22-18  H 4
                                                08:40              SUB IN : Cooper, C.J.
FOUL by Spradling, Will (P1T7)                  08:14  22-19  H 3  GOOD! FT SHOT by Streeter, Jacques
                                                08:14  22-20  H 2  GOOD! FT SHOT by Streeter, Jacques
SUB IN : Rodriguez, Angel                       08:14
SUB OUT: Spradling, Will                        08:14
GOOD! JUMPER by Southwell, Shane [PNT]          08:01  24-20  H 4
FOUL by Jones, Jeremy (P1T8)                    07:39
                                                07:39              TIMEOUT MEDIA
                                                07:39              MISSED FT SHOT by Lang, Cedrick
                                                07:39              REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)
REBOUND (DEF) by Samuels, Jamar                 07:39              MISSED FT SHOT by Lang, Cedrick
MISSED JUMPER by Southwell, Shane               07:21
REBOUND (OFF) by Samuels, Jamar                 07:21
GOOD! JUMPER by Henriquez, Jordan [PNT]         07:09  26-20  H 6
ASSIST by Southwell, Shane                      07:09
                                                06:47  26-22  H 4  GOOD! LAYUP by Lang, Cedrick [PNT]
                                                06:47              ASSIST by Cooper, C.J.
MISSED JUMPER by Southwell, Shane               06:23
REBOUND (OFF) by (TEAM)                         06:23
GOOD! 3 PTR by Rodriguez, Angel                 06:18  29-22  H 7
ASSIST by Southwell, Shane                      06:18
                                                05:55              MISSED JUMPER by Cooper, C.J.
                                                05:55              REBOUND (OFF) by McCulley, Gabriel
FOUL by Henriquez, Jordan (P2T9)                05:53  29-23  H 6  GOOD! FT SHOT by McCulley, Gabriel
                                                05:53  29-24  H 5  GOOD! FT SHOT by McCulley, Gabriel
SUB IN : Ojeleye, Victor                        05:53              SUB IN : Washburn, Julian
SUB OUT: Henriquez, Jordan                      05:53
MISSED JUMPER by Samuels, Jamar                 05:23
REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)                     05:23
GOOD! FT SHOT by Samuels, Jamar                 05:18  30-24  H 6  FOUL by Lang, Cedrick (P2T9)
GOOD! FT SHOT by Samuels, Jamar                 05:18  31-24  H 7
SUB IN : Diaz, Adrian                           05:18              SUB IN : Bohannon, John
SUB OUT: Samuels, Jamar                         05:18
FOUL by Southwell, Shane (P1T10)                05:07  31-25  H 6  GOOD! FT SHOT by McCulley, Gabriel
REBOUND (DEF) by Diaz, Adrian                   05:07              MISSED FT SHOT by McCulley, Gabriel
MISSED JUMPER by Jones, Jeremy                  04:39
REBOUND (OFF) by Southwell, Shane               04:39
GOOD! FT SHOT by Rodriguez, Angel               04:33  32-25  H 7  FOUL by Bohannon, John (P3T10)
GOOD! FT SHOT by Rodriguez, Angel               04:33  33-25  H 8
                                                04:33              SUB IN : Lang, Cedrick
                                                04:33              SUB IN : Perez, Michael
                                                04:33              SUB OUT: Bohannon, John
                                                04:23              TURNOVR by Lang, Cedrick
                                                04:23              FOUL by Lang, Cedrick (P3T11)
GOOD! 3 PTR by Jones, Jeremy                    04:04  36-25  H 11
ASSIST by Southwell, Shane                      04:04
                                                03:46  36-28  H 8  GOOD! 3 PTR by Cooper, C.J.
                                                03:46              ASSIST by Perez, Michael
GOOD! 3 PTR by Jones, Jeremy                    03:23  39-28  H 11
ASSIST by Southwell, Shane                      03:23
FOUL by Ojeleye, Victor (P1T11)                 02:49
                                                02:49              TIMEOUT MEDIA
                                                02:49  39-29  H 10 GOOD! FT SHOT by Lang, Cedrick
                                                02:49  39-30  H 9  GOOD! FT SHOT by Lang, Cedrick
                                                02:49              SUB IN : Streeter, Jacques
                                                02:49              SUB OUT: Lang, Cedrick
TURNOVR by Rodriguez, Angel                     02:38
                                                02:24              TURNOVR by Cooper, C.J.
SUB IN : Spradling, Will                        02:24
SUB OUT: Southwell, Shane                       02:24
GOOD! LAYUP by Spradling, Will [PNT]            02:07  41-30  H 11
FOUL by Ojeleye, Victor (P2T12)                 01:55  41-31  H 10 GOOD! FT SHOT by McCulley, Gabriel
                                                01:55  41-32  H 9  GOOD! FT SHOT by McCulley, Gabriel
SUB IN : Samuels, Jamar                         01:55
SUB OUT: Ojeleye, Victor                        01:55
TURNOVR by Jones, Jeremy                        01:38
SUB IN : Southwell, Shane                       01:38
SUB OUT: Jones, Jeremy                          01:38
REBOUND (DEF) by Samuels, Jamar                 01:29              MISSED JUMPER by Streeter, Jacques
GOOD! JUMPER by Diaz, Adrian [PNT]              01:04  43-32  H 11
REBOUND (DEF) by Samuels, Jamar                 00:46              MISSED JUMPER by Streeter, Jacques
TIMEOUT 30sec                                   00:43
GOOD! DUNK by Diaz, Adrian [PNT]                00:18  45-32  H 13
ASSIST by Southwell, Shane                      00:18
REBOUND (DEF) by Southwell, Shane               00:04              MISSED 3 PTR by Washburn, Julian

[Underdog Wildcat]

Great digging Yosh, that was definitely a stretch during the UTEP game where he looked like Evan Turner*, which makes his occasional sloppy decision making all the more frustrating, like most players, I think he's just got to learn when it's there and when not to force it.

*Don't think Southie is ever going to have Turner's scoring ability, but I do believe in some of Shane's brighter moments he presents some of the same "point forward" qualities as Turner.

[chum1]

I have no idea why people are obsessed with viewing him as a defensive stopper.  I think he's a much bigger asset on offense. 

[ChiComCat]

In other disturbing news......

This statistical comparison is still unflattering as hell to McOreb's.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&i=1&p1=gilson-dejesus

Seems pretty ok considering McO has played only 11  Surprised at the D-boards tho

[DQ12]

Dejesus could play.

[Kat Kid]

In other disturbing news......

This statistical comparison is still unflattering as hell to McOreb's.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&i=1&p1=gilson-dejesus

Seems pretty ok considering McO has played only 11  Surprised at the D-boards tho

I was looking at 3pt percentage and rebounds as the biggest categories.

My main point here is that an overwhelming number of kstate fans would say that McGruder is a vastly superior basketball player than Rodney.  I don't think that is the case.

[Underdog Wildcat]

In other disturbing news......

This statistical comparison is still unflattering as hell to McOreb's.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&i=1&p1=gilson-dejesus

Seems pretty ok considering McO has played only 11  Surprised at the D-boards tho

I was looking at 3pt percentage and rebounds as the biggest categories.

My main point here is that an overwhelming number of kstate fans would say that McGruder is a vastly superior basketball player than Rodney.  I don't think that is the case.

While it's true that your greatest opponent in sports and life in general is often yourself, if I have to choose between McGruder and Dejesus, I'm taking Gruds all-around, JYC game and burgeoning multi-dimensional scoring ability over Dejesus 10 times out of 10.

[Kat Kid]

Jesus, I am really out of it.

I agree I would rather have Rodney, but it is a really interesting comparison.

[Underdog Wildcat]

Just as with any KSU Cat that appeared to give a crap, I liked Dejesus, he really showed a lot of improvement between his JR and SR years, and as I said above, he developed into a very reliable spot up shooter and tough rebounder.

You've got to remember though that 02-03 team went 13-17 overall and 4-12 in the Big 12(finishing 11th). God bless Wooly and what he tried to do, but we're just putting a better overall quality of product and players on the floor these days.

[sys]

he was a pretty good defender too, despite being extremely unathletic.