Les Miles AP COY....

[SdK]

Is COY the guy who can bring in the best talent and win with it? That would seem to be a reward for recruiting 2-3 years prior, not coY. I think having elite talent allows for coaching error. 

Snyder didn't get it, who rough ridin' cares.

I just don't get any assertion that Snyder didn't deserve it, that he would suck at LSU, etc. I know a lot of folks hate Snyders recruiting, but that's not what this debate is about.

[Trim]

I don't want to reward coaches for exceeding the crap expectations that they've earned for themselves.

Everyone can keep saying "of the year" to stand for the premise that this is an award based on an isolated window of time from September through December, but the rest of the world seems to understand it isn't.

[ednksu]

I don't want to reward coaches for exceeding the crap expectations that they've earned for themselves.

Everyone can keep saying "of the year" to stand for the premise that this is an award based on an isolated window of time from September through December, but the rest of the world seems to understand it isn't.

Point 1 is excellent retort to the recruiting issue.  But in the case of the Big 12 does that speak to the strength of the league as well?  OU and OSU were suppose to be league/ national title contenders, UT was suppose to be back, RG3 was on some Heisman boards, the north tards were suppose to be down because that is where we are always picked.  But once again year for the window of examination or a 5 year window or program  where do we stop and start this debate. 

[Stevesie60]

My question is why doesn't it just go to the coach who has the best team in college football?

[Trim]

But once again year for the window of examination or a 5 year window or program  where do we stop and start this debate.  

Not that hard.  It's an award given out at the conclusion of the season that honors the coach who's done the best work to produce the result for that season.  The work includes his "coaching" that season, and the recruitment of players and the building of a program that contributed to the results for that season.  

If Charlie Weiss has a great year with the crap ku team next year, he'll certainly be in the running but he'll also be measured against coaches who have put in the work over multiple years to have amazing seasons next year.  OBz might be a stronger candidate next year even with higher expectations if we see that his recruits and player development since his return lead to a 'ship or something wonderful.

[michigancat]

Les Miles' season is pretty similar to when Bill won NCOY in 1998. Only Bill lost a game that year.

[steve dave]

LHC Bill Snyder would definitely win the KState Fan Vote for Best Coach Not Taking Talent Into Consideration But Emphasizing Pre-Season Expectations And Also Throwing Out Teams From Some Other Conferences That We Don't Like Of The Year Award

[Fuktard]

I don't want to reward coaches for exceeding the crap expectations that they've earned for themselves.

Everyone can keep saying "of the year" to stand for the premise that this is an award based on an isolated window of time from September through December, but the rest of the world seems to understand it isn't.

Mark Mangino 2007 AP Coach of the year   

[michigancat]

I don't want to reward coaches for exceeding the crap expectations that they've earned for themselves.

Everyone can keep saying "of the year" to stand for the premise that this is an award based on an isolated window of time from September through December, but the rest of the world seems to understand it isn't.

Mark Mangino 2007 AP Coach of the year   

Here's the difference between 2007 and this season:

1) Mangino and Snyder had very similar expectations: Mangino went 11-1 and went to a BCS Bowl, which is more impressive than what Snyder accomplished.
2) The national champion had 2 losses. There wasn't someone putting on the greatest season in 20+ years at the same time. If someone goes undefeated in ridiculous fashion that year, Mangino probably wouldn't have won.

[Cartierfor3]

LHC Bill Snyder would definitely win the KState Fan Vote for Best Coach Not Taking Talent Into Consideration But Emphasizing Pre-Season Expectations And Also Throwing Out Teams From Some Other Conferences That We Don't Like Of The Year Award

I would vote for this.

[gatoveintisiete]

My question is why doesn't it just go to the coach who has the best team in college football?

They already have that award, the national title.

[SdK]

I don't want to reward coaches for exceeding the crap expectations that they've earned for themselves.

Well played sir.

I just hope Snyder wins Coach of the Cotton Bowl. That's really all I care about.

[Trim]

I don't want to reward coaches for exceeding the crap expectations that they've earned for themselves.

Well played sir.

I just hope Snyder wins Coach of the Cotton Bowl. That's really all I care about.

Well, he'll win ednksu's coach of the cotton bowl award so long as the Cats cover the spread.

[Katpappy]

My question is why doesn't it just go to the coach who has the best team in college football?

IT DID, didn't it? 

[Katpappy]

LHC Bill Snyder would definitely win the KState Fan Vote for Best Coach Not Taking Talent Into Consideration But Emphasizing Pre-Season Expectations And Also Throwing Out Teams From Some Other Conferences That We Don't Like Of The Year Award

[FranklyFrankYou]

ask yourself this- If Miles coached the Wildcats this year how many games do we win.  If snyder coached the tigers how many?

 Theres your answer.

If Miles had three years at KSU to build his program we are Big 12 champs this year.  Snyder at LSU the last 3 years and they are a mid tier SEC team.  It's pretty clear. 

God damn. I mean, I know you are joking, but that is just so dumb. Like for real. You are so dumb. Les did less with more at OKST(more money, better facilities, more money) than Snyder did in his first term...not to mention the fact that OBZ took us to the Cotton Bowl in his third year... did OKState ever make a bowl as prestigious as the Cotton Bowl? Or win the Big  XII?

[steve dave]

ask yourself this- If Miles coached the Wildcats this year how many games do we win.  If snyder coached the tigers how many?

 Theres your answer.

If Miles had three years at KSU to build his program we are Big 12 champs this year.  Snyder at LSU the last 3 years and they are a mid tier SEC team.  It's pretty clear. 

God damn. I mean, I know you are joking, but that is just so dumb. Like for real. You are so dumb. Les did less with more at OKST(more money, better facilities, more money) than Snyder did in his first term...not to mention the fact that OBZ took us to the Cotton Bowl in his third year... did OKState ever make a bowl as prestigious as the Cotton Bowl? Or win the Big  XII?

not joking at all.   and I'm right.

[FranklyFrankYou]

ask yourself this- If Miles coached the Wildcats this year how many games do we win.  If snyder coached the tigers how many?

 Theres your answer.

If Miles had three years at KSU to build his program we are Big 12 champs this year.  Snyder at LSU the last 3 years and they are a mid tier SEC team.  It's pretty clear. 

God damn. I mean, I know you are joking, but that is just so dumb. Like for real. You are so dumb. Les did less with more at OKST(more money, better facilities, more money) than Snyder did in his first term...not to mention the fact that OBZ took us to the Cotton Bowl in his third year... did OKState ever make a bowl as prestigious as the Cotton Bowl? Or win the Big  XII?

not joking at all.   and I'm right.

No, you are not. Les never had the type of success that Snyder had while at a comparable school with better recruiting abilities and nicer facilities and higher paid assistants. So to say flip positionsx and Les wins the confy is a bit of a big step to make. Following your base of logic here and Snyder would've won every game on the schedule by 330 or more

[steve dave]

ask yourself this- If Miles coached the Wildcats this year how many games do we win.  If snyder coached the tigers how many?

 Theres your answer.

If Miles had three years at KSU to build his program we are Big 12 champs this year.  Snyder at LSU the last 3 years and they are a mid tier SEC team.  It's pretty clear. 

God damn. I mean, I know you are joking, but that is just so dumb. Like for real. You are so dumb. Les did less with more at OKST(more money, better facilities, more money) than Snyder did in his first term...not to mention the fact that OBZ took us to the Cotton Bowl in his third year... did OKState ever make a bowl as prestigious as the Cotton Bowl? Or win the Big  XII?

not joking at all.   and I'm right.

No, you are not. Les never had the type of success that Snyder had while at a comparable school with better recruiting abilities and nicer facilities and higher paid assistants. So to say flip positionsx and Les wins the confy is a bit of a big step to make. Following your base of logic here and Snyder would've won every game on the schedule by 330 or more

In Bill's first 4 years at KSU he won 18 games and never went to a bowl game.  In Les's 4 years at OSU he won 28 games and went to three bowl games.  And don't give me that crap about Les being at a better program.  In the 12 years before Les got there they had 1 winning season.  They were the KState of Oklahoma.  He turned them around significantly faster than Bill turned around Kansas State.  Being a huge homer is fun/easy but it does't help your argument. 

[SdK]

ask yourself this- If Miles coached the Wildcats this year how many games do we win.  If snyder coached the tigers how many?

 Theres your answer.

If Miles had three years at KSU to build his program we are Big 12 champs this year.  Snyder at LSU the last 3 years and they are a mid tier SEC team.  It's pretty clear. 

God damn. I mean, I know you are joking, but that is just so dumb. Like for real. You are so dumb. Les did less with more at OKST(more money, better facilities, more money) than Snyder did in his first term...not to mention the fact that OBZ took us to the Cotton Bowl in his third year... did OKState ever make a bowl as prestigious as the Cotton Bowl? Or win the Big  XII?

not joking at all.   and I'm right.

No, you are not. Les never had the type of success that Snyder had while at a comparable school with better recruiting abilities and nicer facilities and higher paid assistants. So to say flip positionsx and Les wins the confy is a bit of a big step to make. Following your base of logic here and Snyder would've won every game on the schedule by 330 or more

In Bill's first 4 years at KSU he won 18 games and never went to a bowl game.  In Les's 4 years at OSU he won 28 games and went to three bowl games.  And don't give me that crap about Les being at a better program.  In the 12 years before Les got there they had 1 winning season.  They were the KState of Oklahoma.  He turned them around significantly faster than Bill turned around Kansas State.  Being a huge homer is fun/easy but it does't help your argument. 

Without doing any homework (because it's easier to just read other people's arguments and poke holes than present my own), wouldn't Bill's second stint at KSU be more comparable to Les' time at OSU as opposed to the early 90's? The climate of sports, and football mostly, is/was different in those different times.

[steve dave]

ask yourself this- If Miles coached the Wildcats this year how many games do we win.  If snyder coached the tigers how many?

 Theres your answer.

If Miles had three years at KSU to build his program we are Big 12 champs this year.  Snyder at LSU the last 3 years and they are a mid tier SEC team.  It's pretty clear.  

God damn. I mean, I know you are joking, but that is just so dumb. Like for real. You are so dumb. Les did less with more at OKST(more money, better facilities, more money) than Snyder did in his first term...not to mention the fact that OBZ took us to the Cotton Bowl in his third year... did OKState ever make a bowl as prestigious as the Cotton Bowl? Or win the Big  XII?

not joking at all.   and I'm right.

No, you are not. Les never had the type of success that Snyder had while at a comparable school with better recruiting abilities and nicer facilities and higher paid assistants. So to say flip positionsx and Les wins the confy is a bit of a big step to make. Following your base of logic here and Snyder would've won every game on the schedule by 330 or more

In Bill's first 4 years at KSU he won 18 games and never went to a bowl game.  In Les's 4 years at OSU he won 28 games and went to three bowl games.  And don't give me that crap about Les being at a better program.  In the 12 years before Les got there they had 1 winning season.  They were the KState of Oklahoma.  He turned them around significantly faster than Bill turned around Kansas State.  Being a huge homer is fun/easy but it does't help your argument.  

Without doing any homework (because it's easier to just read other people's arguments and poke holes than present my own), wouldn't Bill's second stint at KSU be more comparable to Les' time at OSU as opposed to the early 90's? The climate of sports, and football mostly, is/was different in those different times.

OK, compare current Les to current Bill then.  In either case, Bill comes out the loser.  

[SdK]

ask yourself this- If Miles coached the Wildcats this year how many games do we win.  If snyder coached the tigers how many?

 Theres your answer.

If Miles had three years at KSU to build his program we are Big 12 champs this year.  Snyder at LSU the last 3 years and they are a mid tier SEC team.  It's pretty clear.  

God damn. I mean, I know you are joking, but that is just so dumb. Like for real. You are so dumb. Les did less with more at OKST(more money, better facilities, more money) than Snyder did in his first term...not to mention the fact that OBZ took us to the Cotton Bowl in his third year... did OKState ever make a bowl as prestigious as the Cotton Bowl? Or win the Big  XII?

not joking at all.   and I'm right.

No, you are not. Les never had the type of success that Snyder had while at a comparable school with better recruiting abilities and nicer facilities and higher paid assistants. So to say flip positionsx and Les wins the confy is a bit of a big step to make. Following your base of logic here and Snyder would've won every game on the schedule by 330 or more

In Bill's first 4 years at KSU he won 18 games and never went to a bowl game.  In Les's 4 years at OSU he won 28 games and went to three bowl games.  And don't give me that crap about Les being at a better program.  In the 12 years before Les got there they had 1 winning season.  They were the KState of Oklahoma.  He turned them around significantly faster than Bill turned around Kansas State.  Being a huge homer is fun/easy but it does't help your argument.  

Without doing any homework (because it's easier to just read other people's arguments and poke holes than present my own), wouldn't Bill's second stint at KSU be more comparable to Les' time at OSU as opposed to the early 90's? The climate of sports, and football mostly, is/was different in those different times.

OK, compare current Les to current Bill then.  In either case, Bill comes out the loser.  

I'm saying comparing Les at OSU vs Bill now.


Since we are having hypotheticals. IF KSU wins a CC next year and is in the talk for a Natty. And LSU has a similar season (CC, in talk for Natty) next year. And the COY was between those two, would you still give Les the nod?

I'll listen off air.

[ednksu]

I don't want to reward coaches for exceeding the crap expectations that they've earned for themselves.

Well played sir.

I just hope Snyder wins Coach of the Cotton Bowl. That's really all I care about.

Well, he'll win ednksu's coach of the cotton bowl award so long as the Cats cover the spread.

good to see you people expose your own inability to read.  Please note where I'm more against Les getting this than Bill getting it.  Keep swallowing that SEC load.

[steve dave]

ask yourself this- If Miles coached the Wildcats this year how many games do we win.  If snyder coached the tigers how many?

 Theres your answer.

If Miles had three years at KSU to build his program we are Big 12 champs this year.  Snyder at LSU the last 3 years and they are a mid tier SEC team.  It's pretty clear.  

God damn. I mean, I know you are joking, but that is just so dumb. Like for real. You are so dumb. Les did less with more at OKST(more money, better facilities, more money) than Snyder did in his first term...not to mention the fact that OBZ took us to the Cotton Bowl in his third year... did OKState ever make a bowl as prestigious as the Cotton Bowl? Or win the Big  XII?

not joking at all.   and I'm right.

No, you are not. Les never had the type of success that Snyder had while at a comparable school with better recruiting abilities and nicer facilities and higher paid assistants. So to say flip positionsx and Les wins the confy is a bit of a big step to make. Following your base of logic here and Snyder would've won every game on the schedule by 330 or more

In Bill's first 4 years at KSU he won 18 games and never went to a bowl game.  In Les's 4 years at OSU he won 28 games and went to three bowl games.  And don't give me that crap about Les being at a better program.  In the 12 years before Les got there they had 1 winning season.  They were the KState of Oklahoma.  He turned them around significantly faster than Bill turned around Kansas State.  Being a huge homer is fun/easy but it does't help your argument.  

Without doing any homework (because it's easier to just read other people's arguments and poke holes than present my own), wouldn't Bill's second stint at KSU be more comparable to Les' time at OSU as opposed to the early 90's? The climate of sports, and football mostly, is/was different in those different times.

OK, compare current Les to current Bill then.  In either case, Bill comes out the loser.  

I'm saying comparing Les at OSU vs Bill now.


Since we are having hypotheticals. IF KSU wins a CC next year and is in the talk for a Natty. And LSU has a similar season (CC, in talk for Natty) next year. And the COY was between those two, would you still give Les the nod?

I'll listen off air.

what if Bill had won out in any of his seasons coaching?  I think you could make a good argument that he deserved the award.  but he didn't.  you are arguing against yourself at this point. 

[SdK]

ask yourself this- If Miles coached the Wildcats this year how many games do we win.  If snyder coached the tigers how many?

 Theres your answer.

If Miles had three years at KSU to build his program we are Big 12 champs this year.  Snyder at LSU the last 3 years and they are a mid tier SEC team.  It's pretty clear.  

God damn. I mean, I know you are joking, but that is just so dumb. Like for real. You are so dumb. Les did less with more at OKST(more money, better facilities, more money) than Snyder did in his first term...not to mention the fact that OBZ took us to the Cotton Bowl in his third year... did OKState ever make a bowl as prestigious as the Cotton Bowl? Or win the Big  XII?

not joking at all.   and I'm right.

No, you are not. Les never had the type of success that Snyder had while at a comparable school with better recruiting abilities and nicer facilities and higher paid assistants. So to say flip positionsx and Les wins the confy is a bit of a big step to make. Following your base of logic here and Snyder would've won every game on the schedule by 330 or more

In Bill's first 4 years at KSU he won 18 games and never went to a bowl game.  In Les's 4 years at OSU he won 28 games and went to three bowl games.  And don't give me that crap about Les being at a better program.  In the 12 years before Les got there they had 1 winning season.  They were the KState of Oklahoma.  He turned them around significantly faster than Bill turned around Kansas State.  Being a huge homer is fun/easy but it does't help your argument.  

Without doing any homework (because it's easier to just read other people's arguments and poke holes than present my own), wouldn't Bill's second stint at KSU be more comparable to Les' time at OSU as opposed to the early 90's? The climate of sports, and football mostly, is/was different in those different times.

OK, compare current Les to current Bill then.  In either case, Bill comes out the loser.  

I'm saying comparing Les at OSU vs Bill now.


Since we are having hypotheticals. IF KSU wins a CC next year and is in the talk for a Natty. And LSU has a similar season (CC, in talk for Natty) next year. And the COY was between those two, would you still give Les the nod?

I'll listen off air.

what if Bill had won out in any of his seasons coaching?  I think you could make a good argument that he deserved the award.  but he didn't.  you are arguing against yourself at this point. 

I'm not arguing for anything. Just trying to understand the thoughts going into the arguments being made.

12 days til Top 5 BCS!