Prince's Coaching Tree will kick Synder's Tree's Asses and Faces.

[OK_Cat]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/07/01/vanderbilt-recruiting/index.html?sct=cf_t12_a1

[wes mantooth]

  ok squawk

[steve dave]

I'm pretty sure it already does.  an NFL HC is worth at least as much as two Stoops' and a couple BCS wash outs. 

[OK_Cat]

if james franklin wins at vanderbilt, it's a way bigger accomplishment than stoops winning at ou.  fact.  not even arguable.

[WillieWatanabe]

if james franklin wins at vanderbilt, it's a way bigger accomplishment than stoops winning at ou.  fact.  not even arguable.

way to step out on a limb there OK_Cat.

[OK_Cat]

if james franklin wins at vanderbilt, it's a way bigger accomplishment than stoops winning at ou.  fact.  not even arguable.

way to step out on a limb there OK_Cat.

just helping my case, williewatanabe.

we never really knew what we had until it was gone.   

[pissclams]

was it franklin's wife that prince was supposedly banging?  i do not remember.

[steve dave]

was it franklin's wife that prince was supposedly banging?  i do not remember.

wallerstadt iirc

[Panjandrum]

Prince's original staff was actually pretty decent in retrospect.

Raheem Morris - Duh
James Franklin - TBD
Wallerstedt - He was every bit as good as Cosh (probably better since he most likely didn't drool all over himself 24 hours a day)
Horton - Became an ace recruiter at Arkansas
Tibs - He was a good special teams coach, FWIW
Pat Washington - Had just come from Tennessee
James Jones - Eh, meh.
Mo Latimore - Mo's Mo
Tim McCarty - He was always worthless, so that decreases the overall grade

[sonofdaxjones]

Yeah, Prince's original staff was decent, and there's no doubt Franklin is a recruiting machine.  But . . . but if Franklin is going to "control" an offense like he did at K-State, and like he did at Maryland, he'll be mediocre at best at Vandy.   Which just might be good enough, but like Prince, he proved time and again at K-State and Maryland that he had a very bad feel for the overall game.

[deputy dawg]

Prince's original staff was actually pretty decent in retrospect.

Raheem Morris - Duh
James Franklin - TBD
Wallerstedt - He was every bit as good as Cosh (probably better since he most likely didn't drool all over himself 24 hours a day)
Horton - Became an ace recruiter at Arkansas
Tibs - He was a good special teams coach, FWIW
Pat Washington - Had just come from Tennessee
James Jones - Eh, meh.
Mo Latimore - Mo's Mo
Tim McCarty - He was always worthless, so that decreases the overall grade

Never felt like Prince Ron knew what he was doing, with his staff or players, except for the Texas games.  The "Bunny" episode in Hays during the Catbacker event proved that Prince couldn't manage relations with donors/alumni.

[Panjandrum]

Yeah, Prince's original staff was decent, and there's no doubt Franklin is a recruiting machine.  But . . . but if Franklin is going to "control" an offense like he did at K-State, and like he did at Maryland, he'll be mediocre at best at Vandy.   Which just might be good enough, but like Prince, he proved time and again at K-State and Maryland that he had a very bad feel for the overall game.

Our offense was actually much better when Prince called the games.  That's absolutely true.

But, hopefully, Franklin realizes that he just needs to hire a good coordinator and let him actually call the game.

[KITNfury]

Never felt like Prince Ron knew what he was doing, with his staff or players, except for the Texas games.  The "Bunny" episode in Hays during the Catbacker event proved that Prince couldn't manage relations with donors/alumni.

I remember hearing about him hitting on "some lady" while he was in Hays, but don't know anything more than that. Any other details worth noting?

[MadCat]

Tibs is a DC in Canada and McCarty is a head coach in Oklahoma somewheres again!

[Rage Against the McKee]

Yeah, Prince's original staff was decent, and there's no doubt Franklin is a recruiting machine.  But . . . but if Franklin is going to "control" an offense like he did at K-State, and like he did at Maryland, he'll be mediocre at best at Vandy.   Which just might be good enough, but like Prince, he proved time and again at K-State and Maryland that he had a very bad feel for the overall game.

Our offense was actually much better when Prince called the games.  That's absolutely true.

But, hopefully, Franklin realizes that he just needs to hire a good coordinator and let him actually call the game.

The offense has actually been much better over the past 2 years than it was with Prince and Franklin, considering the capabilities of the defense.

[Panjandrum]

Prince's original staff was actually pretty decent in retrospect.

Raheem Morris - Duh
James Franklin - TBD
Wallerstedt - He was every bit as good as Cosh (probably better since he most likely didn't drool all over himself 24 hours a day)
Horton - Became an ace recruiter at Arkansas
Tibs - He was a good special teams coach, FWIW
Pat Washington - Had just come from Tennessee
James Jones - Eh, meh.
Mo Latimore - Mo's Mo
Tim McCarty - He was always worthless, so that decreases the overall grade

Never felt like Prince Ron knew what he was doing, with his staff or players, except for the Texas games.  The "Bunny" episode in Hays during the Catbacker event proved that Prince couldn't manage relations with donors/alumni.

This is what always bothered me about KSU fans and their analysis of Ron Prince.  They never had the ability to grade him on different facets of his abilities.  You would talk about one thing he did well, and some idiot (not you; mostly people on GPC) would immediately talk about what he said at a nut fry in some small town somewhere.

Ron Prince did a lot of things very badly.  He did some things decently.  He did a few things well.  His first staff was a good D1 staff.  He was bad at keeping staff, and after his small network was tapped after one year, he had trouble finding suitable replacements.

I guess what I don't understand, and probably never will, is why it's not possible for people to look at him and say, "He did this well, he did this poorly, he did this well, he did this poorly, etc."  I guess that and the propensity for people to throw in what happened at some Catbacker event just seems to boggle my mind.

[Panjandrum]

Yeah, Prince's original staff was decent, and there's no doubt Franklin is a recruiting machine.  But . . . but if Franklin is going to "control" an offense like he did at K-State, and like he did at Maryland, he'll be mediocre at best at Vandy.   Which just might be good enough, but like Prince, he proved time and again at K-State and Maryland that he had a very bad feel for the overall game.

Our offense was actually much better when Prince called the games.  That's absolutely true.

But, hopefully, Franklin realizes that he just needs to hire a good coordinator and let him actually call the game.

The offense has actually been much better over the past 2 years than it was with Prince and Franklin, considering the capabilities of the defense.

I was speaking about that time and place.  Prince called the Oklahoma State game in 07 (which we lost due to horrible D and a last second FG), and the CU game that year b/c Franklin had a funeral to go to.  The offense was exceptional both games, and had a TE not fumbled inside the ten (I think that was the case), we would have scored over 40+ in both games.

Prince was a better OC than Franklin was, which was the point I was trying to make.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Yeah, Prince's original staff was decent, and there's no doubt Franklin is a recruiting machine.  But . . . but if Franklin is going to "control" an offense like he did at K-State, and like he did at Maryland, he'll be mediocre at best at Vandy.   Which just might be good enough, but like Prince, he proved time and again at K-State and Maryland that he had a very bad feel for the overall game.

Our offense was actually much better when Prince called the games.  That's absolutely true.

But, hopefully, Franklin realizes that he just needs to hire a good coordinator and let him actually call the game.

The offense has actually been much better over the past 2 years than it was with Prince and Franklin, considering the capabilities of the defense.

I was speaking about that time and place.  Prince called the Oklahoma State game in 07 (which we lost due to horrible D and a last second FG), and the CU game that year b/c Franklin had a funeral to go to.  The offense was exceptional both games, and had a TE not fumbled inside the ten (I think that was the case), we would have scored over 40+ in both games.

Prince was a better OC than Franklin was, which was the point I was trying to make.

Oh, I see. I agree completely, then.

[O-town Kat]

2 more seasons of this and we get to call it the Decade of Crap -- video to include a missing punter, getting trucked for obscene amounts of yardage on the ground against opponents at all levels, McKinney leading the band after a big win vs. Illinois State, and 2 crackers carrying OB off the field

[felix rex]

Yeah, Prince's original staff was decent, and there's no doubt Franklin is a recruiting machine.  But . . . but if Franklin is going to "control" an offense like he did at K-State, and like he did at Maryland, he'll be mediocre at best at Vandy.   Which just might be good enough, but like Prince, he proved time and again at K-State and Maryland that he had a very bad feel for the overall game.

Our offense was actually much better when Prince called the games.  That's absolutely true.

But, hopefully, Franklin realizes that he just needs to hire a good coordinator and let him actually call the game.

The offense has actually been much better over the past 2 years than it was with Prince and Franklin, considering the capabilities of the defense.

I was speaking about that time and place.  Prince called the Oklahoma State game in 07 (which we lost due to horrible D and a last second FG), and the CU game that year b/c Franklin had a funeral to go to.  The offense was exceptional both games, and had a TE not fumbled inside the ten (I think that was the case), we would have scored over 40+ in both games.

Prince was a better OC than Franklin was, which was the point I was trying to make.

As the most senior representative of our slow, white TEs, I've always blamed Mastrud for both games. I refuse to be corrected.

[deputy dawg]

Prince's original staff was actually pretty decent in retrospect.

Raheem Morris - Duh
James Franklin - TBD
Wallerstedt - He was every bit as good as Cosh (probably better since he most likely didn't drool all over himself 24 hours a day)
Horton - Became an ace recruiter at Arkansas
Tibs - He was a good special teams coach, FWIW
Pat Washington - Had just come from Tennessee
James Jones - Eh, meh.
Mo Latimore - Mo's Mo
Tim McCarty - He was always worthless, so that decreases the overall grade

Never felt like Prince Ron knew what he was doing, with his staff or players, except for the Texas games.  The "Bunny" episode in Hays during the Catbacker event proved that Prince couldn't manage relations with donors/alumni.

This is what always bothered me about KSU fans and their analysis of Ron Prince.  They never had the ability to grade him on different facets of his abilities.  You would talk about one thing he did well, and some idiot (not you; mostly people on GPC) would immediately talk about what he said at a nut fry in some small town somewhere.

Ron Prince did a lot of things very badly.  He did some things decently.  He did a few things well.  His first staff was a good D1 staff.  He was bad at keeping staff, and after his small network was tapped after one year, he had trouble finding suitable replacements.

I guess what I don't understand, and probably never will, is why it's not possible for people to look at him and say, "He did this well, he did this poorly, he did this well, he did this poorly, etc."  I guess that and the propensity for people to throw in what happened at some Catbacker event just seems to boggle my mind.

That Hays Catbacker event was pretty monumental in how people who give money to K-State football saw Ron Prince, and money began to dry up.  It wasn't inconsequential, and was not mentioned as an aside.  He pissed a LOT of people off at that deal, including those with checkbooks--big checkbooks.  Managing donor and alumni relations is part of being a head coach.

[OlatheWildcat]

Prince's original staff was actually pretty decent in retrospect.

Raheem Morris - Duh
James Franklin - TBD
Wallerstedt - He was every bit as good as Cosh (probably better since he most likely didn't drool all over himself 24 hours a day)
Horton - Became an ace recruiter at Arkansas
Tibs - He was a good special teams coach, FWIW
Pat Washington - Had just come from Tennessee
James Jones - Eh, meh.
Mo Latimore - Mo's Mo
Tim McCarty - He was always worthless, so that decreases the overall grade

Never felt like Prince Ron knew what he was doing, with his staff or players, except for the Texas games.  The "Bunny" episode in Hays during the Catbacker event proved that Prince couldn't manage relations with donors/alumni.

This is what always bothered me about KSU fans and their analysis of Ron Prince.  They never had the ability to grade him on different facets of his abilities.  You would talk about one thing he did well, and some idiot (not you; mostly people on GPC) would immediately talk about what he said at a nut fry in some small town somewhere.

Ron Prince did a lot of things very badly.  He did some things decently.  He did a few things well.  His first staff was a good D1 staff.  He was bad at keeping staff, and after his small network was tapped after one year, he had trouble finding suitable replacements.

I guess what I don't understand, and probably never will, is why it's not possible for people to look at him and say, "He did this well, he did this poorly, he did this well, he did this poorly, etc."  I guess that and the propensity for people to throw in what happened at some Catbacker event just seems to boggle my mind.

That Hays Catbacker event was pretty monumental in how people who give money to K-State football saw Ron Prince, and money began to dry up.  It wasn't inconsequential, and was not mentioned as an aside.  He pissed a LOT of people off at that deal, including those with checkbooks--big checkbooks.  Managing donor and alumni relations is part of being a head coach.

Sorry for having to ask, but what happened on that faithful night in Hays, KS?

[Stupid Fitz]

I would take Ron back right now.   

[KITNfury]

I would take Ron back right now.   

Fitting name

[Stupid Fitz]

I would take Ron back right now.   

Fitting name

Ron   

Surprised you don't remember him.  He was the guy that sucked at pretty much everything, but had one awesome quality that the current coach doesn't have and it is killing the program.  He was fireable.