Author Topic: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation  (Read 9169 times)

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Offline steve dave

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need to take note of what we see happening with LHCBS 2.0. Love listening to the nay sayers go into their same rhetoric (were they really RP supporters who still haven't come to their senses?) about the 2 and 3 star recruits.

If you go back and look at my post history you will see I am no purple glasses guy but I have to tell you that I see the sea starting to part again. Lets look at our big weaknesses from last year. Dline and QB. Clearly the bodies are either being brought in or moved to the right position to start to address the issues that kept our D from being able to stop even the Little Sisters of the Poor. Bill unlike RP understands how to get the most out of his roster. Moving Allred is a great one IMO and indicative of two things. 1)the Oline is in better shape in Bill's opinion than most think on this board and 2)(captain obvious)the Dline needs depth and quality upgrade. Simply getting the two returners plenty of rest to keep the quality of the snaps they do take up is huge but as Hatter has already noted, competition really does improve kids. Nothing like knowing the coaches have targeted your position with player moves and heavy recruiting to make most kids hit the offseason workouts harder to keep their position. I expect to see a better Kibble/Guidry next year. They showed periods of decent play but seemed to wear out by year end. Not surprising as minor injuries really start to wear on interior guys especially if they don't have good depth to keep their snap count down.

Looking at some of the new recruits at DE and DT the possibilities for seeing some quality depth emerge is exciting. Watching us collapse in the last half of the season to me really rotated around not having enough depth at Dline to let us play a straight up D all game. For example when Kirk was at DT the LBs were having to deal with OLine getting to the second level and you end up trying to overcompensate with either D play calling and/or players start 'reaching' outside their assignments. I can see some of the young DE types moving to DT if they aren't quick enough for D1 play in the open field. 20-30 Lbs addes to Seau and Hunter for example and we all of a sudden have big athletic DTs in the future. Would be great if they were D1 DEs but they have upside either way. I know a bit about Hunter and I am optimisitic that kid leaves KSU in five years as one outstanding DT. I look for him to RS and get bigger. Kid is the right type mentally for Bill's system. We may find by his senior year that we look back and say he was the gem in this class.

The QB situation is almost as good. Klein is smart and a worker. Bill has a track record with these type of kids. Think Brian Cavanaugh with much better wheels. Tuggle IMO will make huge strides this summer. What little I get from the inside ----most of my sources have dried up with minor exceptions---says that he is determined to be ready to beat out Klein by the fall. I fall in the camp on Sams that think he makes the field this year but not at QB. Bill knows he needs another bowl season to continue the growth and he will give up a RS if he thinks a kid will give us enough plays for an additional win. He is far more careful than RP however I will say RP was correct that recruiting is helped when kids know they can play ASAP. What little I hear on the recruiting pitch is that KSU is now talking that way to kids with some exceptions---mostly Olineman.

All in all if you aren't optimistic now you are simply someone who looks at the glass as half empty---each to his own but regardless the process is taking place and at least this year when you watch us take the field we are beginning to look like a team that belongs. I had a long time D1 coach tell me that if you really wanted to know where a program was at look at the 2nd and 3rd stringers. If you see some kids who could play D1 at some level (instead of D2) not getting on the field you had a roster that was ready to compete. The walk on level has clearly picked up. No more signing a Juco Defense intact ala the NEO signing LOL.


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Offline hemmy

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2011, 10:46:17 PM »
sniff sniff, I smell championship

Offline WillieWatanabe

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2011, 10:51:55 PM »
 :star: :star: :star: :star: :star:
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Offline wes mantooth

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2011, 10:56:13 PM »
Way too long, so didn't read. Not smart enough to post one of those gifs with a black guy that says "Did Not Read". Sure it was awesome, though.

Offline Trim

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2011, 11:04:31 PM »
Way too long, so didn't read. Not smart enough to post one of those gifs with a black guy that says "Did Not Read". Sure it was awesome, though.

I'm not even sure the guy in those gifs is a real black guy.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2011, 11:05:14 PM »
need to take note of what we see happening with LHCBS 2.0. Love listening to the nay sayers go into their same rhetoric (were they really RP supporters who still haven't come to their senses?) about the 2 and 3 star recruits.

If you go back and look at my post history you will see I am no purple glasses guy but I have to tell you that I see the sea starting to part again. Lets look at our big weaknesses from last year. Dline and QB. Clearly the bodies are either being brought in or moved to the right position to start to address the issues that kept our D from being able to stop even the Little Sisters of the Poor. Bill unlike RP understands how to get the most out of his roster. Moving Allred is a great one IMO and indicative of two things. 1)the Oline is in better shape in Bill's opinion than most think on this board and 2)(captain obvious)the Dline needs depth and quality upgrade. Simply getting the two returners plenty of rest to keep the quality of the snaps they do take up is huge but as Hatter has already noted, competition really does improve kids. Nothing like knowing the coaches have targeted your position with player moves and heavy recruiting to make most kids hit the offseason workouts harder to keep their position. I expect to see a better Kibble/Guidry next year. They showed periods of decent play but seemed to wear out by year end. Not surprising as minor injuries really start to wear on interior guys especially if they don't have good depth to keep their snap count down.

Looking at some of the new recruits at DE and DT the possibilities for seeing some quality depth emerge is exciting. Watching us collapse in the last half of the season to me really rotated around not having enough depth at Dline to let us play a straight up D all game. For example when Kirk was at DT the LBs were having to deal with OLine getting to the second level and you end up trying to overcompensate with either D play calling and/or players start 'reaching' outside their assignments. I can see some of the young DE types moving to DT if they aren't quick enough for D1 play in the open field. 20-30 Lbs addes to Seau and Hunter for example and we all of a sudden have big athletic DTs in the future. Would be great if they were D1 DEs but they have upside either way. I know a bit about Hunter and I am optimisitic that kid leaves KSU in five years as one outstanding DT. I look for him to RS and get bigger. Kid is the right type mentally for Bill's system. We may find by his senior year that we look back and say he was the gem in this class.

The QB situation is almost as good. Klein is smart and a worker. Bill has a track record with these type of kids. Think Brian Cavanaugh with much better wheels. Tuggle IMO will make huge strides this summer. What little I get from the inside ----most of my sources have dried up with minor exceptions---says that he is determined to be ready to beat out Klein by the fall. I fall in the camp on Sams that think he makes the field this year but not at QB. Bill knows he needs another bowl season to continue the growth and he will give up a RS if he thinks a kid will give us enough plays for an additional win. He is far more careful than RP however I will say RP was correct that recruiting is helped when kids know they can play ASAP. What little I hear on the recruiting pitch is that KSU is now talking that way to kids with some exceptions---mostly Olineman.

All in all if you aren't optimistic now you are simply someone who looks at the glass as half empty---each to his own but regardless the process is taking place and at least this year when you watch us take the field we are beginning to look like a team that belongs. I had a long time D1 coach tell me that if you really wanted to know where a program was at look at the 2nd and 3rd stringers. If you see some kids who could play D1 at some level (instead of D2) not getting on the field you had a roster that was ready to compete. The walk on level has clearly picked up. No more signing a Juco Defense intact ala the NEO signing LOL.

I missed the paragraph where the writer stopped talking about us in a vacuum and talked about how we're not the only ones out there pillaging JUCOs for talent and the fact that a lot of other teams have gotten their crap together and started caring about football more and running their programs in a competent fashion.

Also, the defense will continue to suck until proven otherwise.  And Chris Cosh is still here, so there will be no return to anything until Bill addresses him and the rest of the Golden Corral Brigade.

Who wrote this?

Offline WillieWatanabe

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Offline Panjandrum

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Offline steve dave

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2011, 11:13:59 PM »
this is an sd original you assholes.  he stole it from me if anything.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2011, 11:16:54 PM »
this is an sd original you assholes.  he stole it from me if anything.

 :horrorsurprise:

Offline EllToPay

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2011, 11:34:12 PM »
this is an sd original you assholes.  he stole it from me if anything.

:shakesfist:

Offline steve dave

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2011, 11:38:38 PM »
maybe we just posted at the same time

Offline RightMeow

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2011, 12:10:43 AM »
This sounds like someone trying to convince themselves into looking forward to this season.  2012 under Tressel will be much better than this year.
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Offline steve dave

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2011, 12:13:05 AM »
This sounds like someone trying to convince themselves into looking forward to this season.  2012 under Tressel will be much better than this year.

1. A lot of the items sold/traded for tats had multiple players' autographs, and many had Tressel's autograph. My question is, how do the players go about getting their hands on all of that stuff? Not the jerseys, programs, etc., but rather, the AUTOGRAPHED versions? Once that stuff is signed, it has value...so what is the chain of custody? Or, did they simply go to Tressel and say, "hey coach, would you sign a few, I need some new ink?" I just can't imagine a scenario where AT LEAST officials in the athletic department, and perhaps Tressel himself, were not just aware of, but facilitating the release of that signed memorabilia to the athletes.
2. If the reports in that story are true, how can you conclude that Tressel is anything but a total fraud as a human being? Switzer was a liar and cheater...but unlike Tressel, he didn't pretend to be some sort of choir boy or spirital savior of the inner city youth. The story with Ray Isaac, his former QB at Youngstown St., is beyond comical in its hyprocrisy. I nearly choked after reading Isaac's comments about how Tressel taught him his "most important life lessons." Yes, he clearly did. Here's an excerpt:


In 1995, Monus was convicted in federal court of 109 felony counts of bank, wire and mail fraud, conspiracy, obstruction of justice and interstate transportation of stolen goods related to his looting of Phar-Mor's corporate coffers. Three years later Monus was on trial for jury tampering in the government's first prosecution of him, which had ended in a hung jury. During this trial (at which Monus was found not guilty) Monus and Isaac, who had pleaded guilty to attempting to bribe a juror on ­Monus's behalf, disclosed their financial dealings while Isaac was a student and alleged that Tressel had set these in motion with that first phone call.

A ­reporter covering the jury-tampering trial called the school and reported Monus's and Isaac's testimony, prompting an internal investigation. That probe revealed that Isaac's car was the worst-kept secret on campus. According to NCAA documents, all of Isaac's teammates who were interviewed "except one" knew about the car or had suspicions about it. Even people outside the football family knew. Pauline Saternow, then the school's compliance officer, had such misgivings about the car that she recused herself from the investigation committee because, according to Cochran, she did not feel she could be objective. Everyone raised an eyebrow -- except Tressel.

Today Isaac runs High Impact Football, a quarterback-coaching business in Cary, N.C. He is quick to call Tressel his "surrogate dad." The two were once so close that Tressel invited Isaac to a football camp, even after Isaac had been indicted for jury tampering. They text-messaged psalms back and forth, according to Isaac, who says the coach taught him his most important life lessons. "He never let me take the path of least resistance," Isaac says.

Offline 5601js

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2011, 02:20:00 PM »
Nothing like that time of year when all new recruits are anointed as the saviors to the weak spots of the program.
Anyone have a Cliffs Notes version? I stopped after the first paragraph.

Offline steve dave

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2011, 04:46:52 PM »
Nothing like that time of year when all new recruits are anointed as the saviors to the weak spots of the program.
Anyone have a Cliffs Notes version? I stopped after the first paragraph.

wow you always are pessimistic on us but seem to see the pie in the sky for other teams. They have the same talent issues they had last year---too many chiefs not enough indians. There is a sense of entitlement that has always plagued UT with their five star recruits that many fail to understand. Case in point is OU. When was their last NC? What was the type of team they had? Bob appears to have relearned the proper mix of super talent and role players. Watch how he recruits now and you will see that he isn't out there signing only 4 and 5 star types but mixing in some lower level recruits---and not because he has too. He could sign all high level types if he was inclined. This isn't simply observation---one of my clients (I am on sabbatical from the firm but still in touch with some of my favorites) is a OU coach and he has made the point about the right mix for getting real team play and locker room stability

Offline Ira Hayes

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2011, 10:45:33 PM »
I share the optimism, but I feel the need to point out that when the waters were parted we were in a conference with 1 good team (NU) and 1 better than average team (CU).  We basically had a two game schedule.  That is not the case now.


Offline jtksu

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2011, 11:14:53 PM »
CU won an NC in 1990.  That's gotta be "better than average" right?  OU went 44-23-2 from 90-95.  KU was ranked in the top-10 when we whipped them in 95.  Oh, and we were the worst program in history when Snyds took over the first time.  We were a bowl team last year.  Not a great team but a far cry from the WOAT.  You really don't know much about Big 8 football, do you?

Offline jtksu

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2011, 11:17:55 PM »
Also- Bill won the Big 8 COY in 1990, the same year CU won the NC.  But the deck is stacked way different now, right?

Offline MichiganisGood

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2011, 11:34:20 PM »
This sounds like someone trying to convince themselves into looking forward to this season.  2012 under Tressel will be much better than this year.

1. A lot of the items sold/traded for tats had multiple players' autographs, and many had Tressel's autograph. My question is, how do the players go about getting their hands on all of that stuff? Not the jerseys, programs, etc., but rather, the AUTOGRAPHED versions? Once that stuff is signed, it has value...so what is the chain of custody? Or, did they simply go to Tressel and say, "hey coach, would you sign a few, I need some new ink?" I just can't imagine a scenario where AT LEAST officials in the athletic department, and perhaps Tressel himself, were not just aware of, but facilitating the release of that signed memorabilia to the athletes.
2. If the reports in that story are true, how can you conclude that Tressel is anything but a total fraud as a human being? Switzer was a liar and cheater...but unlike Tressel, he didn't pretend to be some sort of choir boy or spirital savior of the inner city youth. The story with Ray Isaac, his former QB at Youngstown St., is beyond comical in its hyprocrisy. I nearly choked after reading Isaac's comments about how Tressel taught him his "most important life lessons." Yes, he clearly did. Here's an excerpt:


In 1995, Monus was convicted in federal court of 109 felony counts of bank, wire and mail fraud, conspiracy, obstruction of justice and interstate transportation of stolen goods related to his looting of Phar-Mor's corporate coffers. Three years later Monus was on trial for jury tampering in the government's first prosecution of him, which had ended in a hung jury. During this trial (at which Monus was found not guilty) Monus and Isaac, who had pleaded guilty to attempting to bribe a juror on ­Monus's behalf, disclosed their financial dealings while Isaac was a student and alleged that Tressel had set these in motion with that first phone call.

A ­reporter covering the jury-tampering trial called the school and reported Monus's and Isaac's testimony, prompting an internal investigation. That probe revealed that Isaac's car was the worst-kept secret on campus. According to NCAA documents, all of Isaac's teammates who were interviewed "except one" knew about the car or had suspicions about it. Even people outside the football family knew. Pauline Saternow, then the school's compliance officer, had such misgivings about the car that she recused herself from the investigation committee because, according to Cochran, she did not feel she could be objective. Everyone raised an eyebrow -- except Tressel.

Today Isaac runs High Impact Football, a quarterback-coaching business in Cary, N.C. He is quick to call Tressel his "surrogate dad." The two were once so close that Tressel invited Isaac to a football camp, even after Isaac had been indicted for jury tampering. They text-messaged psalms back and forth, according to Isaac, who says the coach taught him his most important life lessons. "He never let me take the path of least resistance," Isaac says.
:love: :love: :drool:

Offline steve dave

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2011, 11:36:10 PM »
This sounds like someone trying to convince themselves into looking forward to this season.  2012 under Tressel will be much better than this year.

1. A lot of the items sold/traded for tats had multiple players' autographs, and many had Tressel's autograph. My question is, how do the players go about getting their hands on all of that stuff? Not the jerseys, programs, etc., but rather, the AUTOGRAPHED versions? Once that stuff is signed, it has value...so what is the chain of custody? Or, did they simply go to Tressel and say, "hey coach, would you sign a few, I need some new ink?" I just can't imagine a scenario where AT LEAST officials in the athletic department, and perhaps Tressel himself, were not just aware of, but facilitating the release of that signed memorabilia to the athletes.
2. If the reports in that story are true, how can you conclude that Tressel is anything but a total fraud as a human being? Switzer was a liar and cheater...but unlike Tressel, he didn't pretend to be some sort of choir boy or spirital savior of the inner city youth. The story with Ray Isaac, his former QB at Youngstown St., is beyond comical in its hyprocrisy. I nearly choked after reading Isaac's comments about how Tressel taught him his "most important life lessons." Yes, he clearly did. Here's an excerpt:


In 1995, Monus was convicted in federal court of 109 felony counts of bank, wire and mail fraud, conspiracy, obstruction of justice and interstate transportation of stolen goods related to his looting of Phar-Mor's corporate coffers. Three years later Monus was on trial for jury tampering in the government's first prosecution of him, which had ended in a hung jury. During this trial (at which Monus was found not guilty) Monus and Isaac, who had pleaded guilty to attempting to bribe a juror on ­Monus's behalf, disclosed their financial dealings while Isaac was a student and alleged that Tressel had set these in motion with that first phone call.

A ­reporter covering the jury-tampering trial called the school and reported Monus's and Isaac's testimony, prompting an internal investigation. That probe revealed that Isaac's car was the worst-kept secret on campus. According to NCAA documents, all of Isaac's teammates who were interviewed "except one" knew about the car or had suspicions about it. Even people outside the football family knew. Pauline Saternow, then the school's compliance officer, had such misgivings about the car that she recused herself from the investigation committee because, according to Cochran, she did not feel she could be objective. Everyone raised an eyebrow -- except Tressel.

Today Isaac runs High Impact Football, a quarterback-coaching business in Cary, N.C. He is quick to call Tressel his "surrogate dad." The two were once so close that Tressel invited Isaac to a football camp, even after Isaac had been indicted for jury tampering. They text-messaged psalms back and forth, according to Isaac, who says the coach taught him his most important life lessons. "He never let me take the path of least resistance," Isaac says.
:love: :love: :drool:


yep, another steve dave original.  soak it in.

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2011, 10:59:49 AM »
If you cheapasses (one word?) would pay for premium you would get advance copies of Steve Dave originals before he releases to the unwashed masses.

Offline jtksu

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2011, 11:02:18 AM »
I'll take my stevedave anyway I can get him but I prefer him to be a bit dirty.

Offline 5601js

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2011, 12:50:15 PM »
Nothing like that time of year when all new recruits are anointed as the saviors to the weak spots of the program.
Anyone have a Cliffs Notes version? I stopped after the first paragraph.

wow you always are pessimistic on us but seem to see the pie in the sky for other teams. They have the same talent issues they had last year---too many chiefs not enough indians. There is a sense of entitlement that has always plagued UT with their five star recruits that many fail to understand. Case in point is OU. When was their last NC? What was the type of team they had? Bob appears to have relearned the proper mix of super talent and role players. Watch how he recruits now and you will see that he isn't out there signing only 4 and 5 star types but mixing in some lower level recruits---and not because he has too. He could sign all high level types if he was inclined. This isn't simply observation---one of my clients (I am on sabbatical from the firm but still in touch with some of my favorites) is a OU coach and he has made the point about the right mix for getting real team play and locker room stability

Assuming your post in sincere, is it really pessimism when it's been nearly a decade since we won our division, and we've mired in mediocrity throughout that entire time?
I'm going to be optimistic and hope for the best, and I do think we'll be better, but considering our defense last year was an atrocity, it's kind of hard to get worse.

Offline wiley

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Re: Folks who missed seeing the last Miracle as it built to summation
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2011, 01:06:45 PM »
If you go back and look at my post history you will see I am no purple glasses guy but I have to tell you that I see the sea starting to part again.

can you unlock the post history past 1 week option?  SD is to much of a sunshine pumper for me to believe this BS
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