Official Green Energy Thread

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Libs, feel free to post flailing confused comments as to why Green Energy is good for the economy. 

Stories about how it will reduce the cost of energy are also welcome. 

Incoherent, unsubstantiated, and contradictory explanations about how Green Energy positively effects GDP, jobs, econ growth, etc. by reducing use of petroleum are encouraged. 

Any claim that carbon should be made into a commodity, the use of which is forced upon industry, and can be traded on the open market are desired.  (most excited for this one).

I think this goes without saying, but when you are proven wrong in your statements, counter with personal insults against the poster who pwns you.

Everyone else, sit back and laugh at the childish and sophomoric rantings and ravings of the lunatic left.

[pike]

Beems is going to post worthless graphs and irrelevant exchange rate info in 3...2...1....

[jtksu]

Bet it will be a while before he comes skulking back to the board.  He was pretty butthurt after the raping he received yesterday.

[Panjandrum]

Libs, feel free to post flailing confused comments as to why Green Energy is good for the economy. 

Stories about how it will reduce the cost of energy are also welcome. 

Incoherent, unsubstantiated, and contradictory explanations about how Green Energy positively effects GDP, jobs, econ growth, etc. by reducing use of petroleum are encouraged. 

Any claim that carbon should be made into a commodity, the use of which is forced upon industry, and can be traded on the open market are desired.  (most excited for this one).

I think this goes without saying, but when you are proven wrong in your statements, counter with personal insults against the poster who pwns you.

Everyone else, sit back and laugh at the childish and sophomoric rantings and ravings of the lunatic left.

Is it an immediate boost?  No.  Is it a long term investment?  Yes.

At one point in time, making in investments in things like software, computers, and other personal electronic devices were nothing but fringe industries.  However, over time, they became a significant segment of our economy.

I guess the bottom line is that common sense dictates that you'd probably want to start hitching your wagon to a non-finite resource that you can hopefully market and sell to the rest of the world rather than continuing to hitch your wagon to a finite resource in general.

You either start a transition now, while gas prices are somewhat manageable, or you wait until it's too late.

I vote to nudge the market to the non-finite resource, but hey, people love their gas.

[sys]

we're hella rich, we can afford green energy (global bling).

[06wildcat]

My heat pump and solar water heater have already paid for themselves 

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

My heat pump and solar water heater have already paid for themselves 

If I were you I would install solar electric panels and a wind generator. Let us know how much money you save.

[The1BigWillie]

That giant eyesore (wind farm) out on I70 powers 1 home (1 home) for every 4 acres (4 acres) of land that is being used for the windmills.  I don't know what the lifespan or the cost of those things are but I'm guessing the break even point would make our tummies hurt.  I'm guessing the entire project did nothing more than line the pockets of T Boone. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

That giant eyesore (wind farm) out on I70 powers 1 home (1 home) for every 4 acres (4 acres) of land that is being used for the windmills.  I don't know what the lifespan or the cost of those things are but I'm guessing the break even point would make our tummies hurt.  I'm guessing the entire project did nothing more than line the pockets of T Boone. 

Where did you get that information? Land use requirements are a big problem with wind generation, but typically it takes about 100x the land area for a wind farm to produce at the same level as a 1.2 gigawatt coal power plant. That's a lot less land than 4 acres per household.

The biggest problem with wind energy is that there are no good methods of storing energy during non-peak hours, so if we were to convert to wind power, we would have to generate a lot more power than we currently do in order to meet peak demands.

[sonofdaxjones]

It takes 2 years for industrial sized wind turbines to become carbon neutral and that is IF they are in production the entire time.

[Rage Against the McKee]

It takes 2 years for industrial sized wind turbines to become carbon neutral and that is IF they are in production the entire time.

How long does it take for a coal power plant to become carbon neutral?

[sonofdaxjones]

It takes 2 years for industrial sized wind turbines to become carbon neutral and that is IF they are in production the entire time.

How long does it take for a coal power plant to become carbon neutral?

 

Not a big fan of coal, but I also understand that this is going to be a long convergence process.   More interested in things like Bloom Box technology and how that is developing.   

[Rage Against the McKee]

It takes 2 years for industrial sized wind turbines to become carbon neutral and that is IF they are in production the entire time.

How long does it take for a coal power plant to become carbon neutral?

 

Not a big fan of coal, but I also understand that this is going to be a long convergence process.   More interested in things like Bloom Box technology and how that is developing.   

Yeah, I'm not in favor of converting 100% to wind by any means, or even 100% to renewable energy, but I see no reason not to utilize wind in areas that make sense,

[jtksu]

GLOBAL WARMING IS A MYTH!!!

[06wildcat]

My heat pump and solar water heater have already paid for themselves 

If I were you I would install solar electric panels and a wind generator. Let us know how much money you save.

Way ahead of you on the panels. Should be installed by September if the contractor doesn't get hung up on another job. Of course I realize not everyone has the means to add a $20,000 system to their home, but through tax credits, improved resale value (in Kansas this improvement can't be a reason for increasing the tax valuation) and the ability to resell the electricity through the grid, I'm looking at about 7-9 years repayment (full warranty on the panels/system for 25 years) and I'll only be paying for electricity for 3-4 months of the year.

Wind generation just doesn't make sense on a small scale.

[jtksu]

What happens if the panels are damaged by wind/hail?  Also-  why do you have to wait until Sept?  Does it really take 3 months for the contractor to complete a job?

[The1BigWillie]

That giant eyesore (wind farm) out on I70 powers 1 home (1 home) for every 4 acres (4 acres) of land that is being used for the windmills.  I don't know what the lifespan or the cost of those things are but I'm guessing the break even point would make our tummies hurt.  I'm guessing the entire project did nothing more than line the pockets of T Boone. 

Where did you get that information? Land use requirements are a big problem with wind generation, but typically it takes about 100x the land area for a wind farm to produce at the same level as a 1.2 gigawatt coal power plant. That's a lot less land than 4 acres per household.

The biggest problem with wind energy is that there are no good methods of storing energy during non-peak hours, so if we were to convert to wind power, we would have to generate a lot more power than we currently do in order to meet peak demands.

Apologies... I transposed my facts.  Every acre used in the windfarm off I-70 powers roughly 4 homes annually.  (20,000 acres @ ~85,000 homes/year)

[jtksu]

Mods, can we change that guy's screen name to "slickwillie?"

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

My heat pump and solar water heater have already paid for themselves 

If I were you I would install solar electric panels and a wind generator. Let us know how much money you save.

Way ahead of you on the panels. Should be installed by September if the contractor doesn't get hung up on another job. Of course I realize not everyone has the means to add a $20,000 system to their home, but through tax credits, improved resale value (in Kansas this improvement can't be a reason for increasing the tax valuation) and the ability to resell the electricity through the grid, I'm looking at about 7-9 years repayment (full warranty on the panels/system for 25 years) and I'll only be paying for electricity for 3-4 months of the year.

Wind generation just doesn't make sense on a small scale.

How much is you average electric bill right now?

[06wildcat]

My heat pump and solar water heater have already paid for themselves 

If I were you I would install solar electric panels and a wind generator. Let us know how much money you save.

Way ahead of you on the panels. Should be installed by September if the contractor doesn't get hung up on another job. Of course I realize not everyone has the means to add a $20,000 system to their home, but through tax credits, improved resale value (in Kansas this improvement can't be a reason for increasing the tax valuation) and the ability to resell the electricity through the grid, I'm looking at about 7-9 years repayment (full warranty on the panels/system for 25 years) and I'll only be paying for electricity for 3-4 months of the year.

Wind generation just doesn't make sense on a small scale.

How much is you average electric bill right now?

Average over the last 2 years has been about $225. Which will drop to something like $15 or $20 (still have to pay for being hooked into the grid) for 8-9 months of the year with the other three to four months seeing a significantly reduced rate as well.

Plus tax credits are taking about 1/3 off the cost.

And JT, you really have no idea how contractors work do you? It will take about 3 days to install the system, but a job this small isn't exactly a priority in the middle of construction season.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

My heat pump and solar water heater have already paid for themselves 

If I were you I would install solar electric panels and a wind generator. Let us know how much money you save.

Way ahead of you on the panels. Should be installed by September if the contractor doesn't get hung up on another job. Of course I realize not everyone has the means to add a $20,000 system to their home, but through tax credits, improved resale value (in Kansas this improvement can't be a reason for increasing the tax valuation) and the ability to resell the electricity through the grid, I'm looking at about 7-9 years repayment (full warranty on the panels/system for 25 years) and I'll only be paying for electricity for 3-4 months of the year.

Wind generation just doesn't make sense on a small scale.

How much is you average electric bill right now?

Average over the last 2 years has been about $225. Which will drop to something like $15 or $20 (still have to pay for being hooked into the grid) for 8-9 months of the year with the other three to four months seeing a significantly reduced rate as well.

Plus tax credits are taking about 1/3 off the cost.

And JT, you really have no idea how contractors work do you? It will take about 3 days to install the system, but a job this small isn't exactly a priority in the middle of construction season.

JFC, are you growing herbs? You can just answer with this  if "yes".

[Panjandrum]

That giant eyesore (wind farm) out on I70 powers 1 home (1 home) for every 4 acres (4 acres) of land that is being used for the windmills.  I don't know what the lifespan or the cost of those things are but I'm guessing the break even point would make our tummies hurt.  I'm guessing the entire project did nothing more than line the pockets of T Boone. 

Where did you get that information? Land use requirements are a big problem with wind generation, but typically it takes about 100x the land area for a wind farm to produce at the same level as a 1.2 gigawatt coal power plant. That's a lot less land than 4 acres per household.

The biggest problem with wind energy is that there are no good methods of storing energy during non-peak hours, so if we were to convert to wind power, we would have to generate a lot more power than we currently do in order to meet peak demands.

Apologies... I transposed my facts.  Every acre used in the windfarm off I-70 powers roughly 4 homes annually.  (20,000 acres @ ~85,000 homes/year)

I once watched movies on a VCR and made phone calls from a rotary phone.  I also remember my parents bringing this computer home from work in something that looked like a trunk.

Push the market in that direction and watch innovation happen.

[michigancat]

That giant eyesore (wind farm) out on I70 powers 1 home (1 home) for every 4 acres (4 acres) of land that is being used for the windmills.  I don't know what the lifespan or the cost of those things are but I'm guessing the break even point would make our tummies hurt.  I'm guessing the entire project did nothing more than line the pockets of T Boone. 

Where did you get that information? Land use requirements are a big problem with wind generation, but typically it takes about 100x the land area for a wind farm to produce at the same level as a 1.2 gigawatt coal power plant. That's a lot less land than 4 acres per household.

The biggest problem with wind energy is that there are no good methods of storing energy during non-peak hours, so if we were to convert to wind power, we would have to generate a lot more power than we currently do in order to meet peak demands.

Apologies... I transposed my facts.  Every acre used in the windfarm off I-70 powers roughly 4 homes annually.  (20,000 acres @ ~85,000 homes/year)

But only 2% of the land was actually taken away from farmland, so there are really 40 acres being taken away from farmland to power 85,000 homes/year.

http://www.tradewindenergy.com/Project.aspx?id=226

[06wildcat]

My heat pump and solar water heater have already paid for themselves 

If I were you I would install solar electric panels and a wind generator. Let us know how much money you save.

Way ahead of you on the panels. Should be installed by September if the contractor doesn't get hung up on another job. Of course I realize not everyone has the means to add a $20,000 system to their home, but through tax credits, improved resale value (in Kansas this improvement can't be a reason for increasing the tax valuation) and the ability to resell the electricity through the grid, I'm looking at about 7-9 years repayment (full warranty on the panels/system for 25 years) and I'll only be paying for electricity for 3-4 months of the year.

Wind generation just doesn't make sense on a small scale.

How much is you average electric bill right now?

Average over the last 2 years has been about $225. Which will drop to something like $15 or $20 (still have to pay for being hooked into the grid) for 8-9 months of the year with the other three to four months seeing a significantly reduced rate as well.

Plus tax credits are taking about 1/3 off the cost.

And JT, you really have no idea how contractors work do you? It will take about 3 days to install the system, but a job this small isn't exactly a priority in the middle of construction season.

JFC, are you growing herbs? You can just answer with this  if "yes".

Not growing herb, but a fairly large house and a larger workshop/garage do make for significant electric bills in the summer. Also, heat pumps are more efficient than just burning gas in the winter, it does shift more of the heating cost to the electric bill in what are typically the off months.

[sonofdaxjones]

06 Where were the panels made?