Dalonte

[wetwillie]

Do you think maybe Hill was getting tired of Franks act?  I could see him getting tired of being the guy that has to tell the kids that are getting there scholarship ripped for a incoming transfer that nobody knows anything about. 

Delonte - Um, yeah, Juvole can I talk to you for a second?
Myles - yeah coach whats up, I've been working on those moves you showed me.
Delonte - Oh yeah?  That's great.
Myles - Yeah I can't wait to show what I've got next year.
Delonte - HMMM.  Listen, you're a great kid and I hate doing this to you but we will not be giving you a sholarship next year.
Myles     
 Frank enters room
Frank- Juvole what's wrong?
Myles-So I'm not going to be on scholarship next year?
Frank- Well I gave that choice to Delonte you will have to take it up with him.
Delonte-

I always envisioned Frank relishing in their anguish and living for the moment he gets to run off a couple of guys.  Sweet tears kind of stuff etc.

[yoga-like_abana]

the biggest question now is who is going to get frank his rough ridin' water.

[Scary Smart]

I seriously cannot believe how many K-State fans still spell his name as "Delonte."

[WillieWatanabe]

I seriously cannot believe how many K-State fans still spell his name as "Delonte."

[Pete]

-i'll try to explain the mind of curtis malone:  money talks, bullshit walks

I CAN attest to the fact that Clams knows a guy in Canada, you don't know him, who is very learned on this topic.

[Panjandrum]

So is this the thread where we start talking about potential replacements, or am I in the wrong one?

Overall, I agree with the "neutral" assessment.  Dalonte had value, but not $450K value (at least not that could be observed from the outside).  Also, for him, this gives him a shot at a program closer to where his ties will have an impact, and maybe it will get him closer to a shot at being a HC (if that's his ultimate goal).

Is Pastrana an option to replace?  Or to expand on the Texas connections piece, someone down there with AAU connections that is looking for a shot?

[Poster formerly known as jthutch]

So is this the thread where we start talking about potential replacements, or am I in the wrong one?

Overall, I agree with the "neutral" assessment.  Dalonte had value, but not $450K value (at least not that could be observed from the outside).  Also, for him, this gives him a shot at a program closer to where his ties will have an impact, and maybe it will get him closer to a shot at being a HC (if that's his ultimate goal).

Is Pastrana an option to replace?  Or to expand on the Texas connections piece, someone down there with AAU connections that is looking for a shot?

If we hire Marcus Smarts AAU coach or high school coach can we get him to come here?  I know he is not a 5* or anything but I really wanted Smart and it seems he is not looking at us right now.

[wetwillie]

So is this the thread where we start talking about potential replacements, or am I in the wrong one?

Overall, I agree with the "neutral" assessment.  Dalonte had value, but not $450K value (at least not that could be observed from the outside).  Also, for him, this gives him a shot at a program closer to where his ties will have an impact, and maybe it will get him closer to a shot at being a HC (if that's his ultimate goal).

Is Pastrana an option to replace?  Or to expand on the Texas connections piece, someone down there with AAU connections that is looking for a shot?

I attempted to put some names together here http://goEMAW.com/forum /index.php?topic=12992.0 but those were really just a few of sys's suggestions and a collection of guys around Texas AAU programs

[MakeItRain]

I just think it's wishful thinking on our part to think that losing Hill is a good thing.  IMHO at best its a neutral thing. Nothing to celebrate.

Yeah it can't be anything but neutral, his replacement will decide if Hill leaving was a good thing or bad thing.  Anyone who thinks Hill leaving is a good thing just isn't rational.  Just assume that Hill wasn't worth his salary, I hate that take by the way, what if the next guy isn't earning his $175,000 salary?  Dalonte leaving would look terrible for KSU in retrospect.

[WillieWatanabe]

Jorge Fernandez??

If he just has Florida ties...seems kind of pointless

[MakeItRain]

i wonder how frank gets florida kids to go to Manhattan.  I suppose it's magic, what with Manhattan's location and all.  Anyone have any theories?

How do you not understand this?  No one is saying that you can't get kids here.  The point is that you have to SELL coming to recruits.  There has been two players that Frank & his staff have landed that they didn't have to sell location to.  Dalonte no longer has to sell location to DMV kids.  No one is claiming that you can't get kids to Manhattan, there is just an additional hurdle that some schools don't have.  Stop acting inferior about it, having to sell location isn't unique to KSU.  Most schools who recruit nationally have to sell their location, KU does.

It's really a big part of the problem with the football program.  They recruit & land very few  players that they have to sell location to.  Most of that appears to be because of staff philosophy, but some of the reason can be attributed to the fact that the best college football programs are in America's Sun Belt and California, the same places where most of the players are.  You don't think Ohio State has to sell Columbus freaking Ohio to Florida recruits?

College Basketball talent is much more spread out and there are many good to great programs in less than desirable locales.  Ever been to Storrs, CT?  Maryland is a rare case in college basketball where the program is a good to great program with enough talent to sustain the program within a 90 minute drive.  They could dominate DC, MD, VA, and Philly and improve an already great program.  The University of Maryland is as close to all of those basketball hotbeds as KSU is to KC.

[Panjandrum]

The University of Maryland is as close to all of those basketball hotbeds as KSU is to KC.

It really makes you wonder how much Gary Williams has been shooting himself in the foot all of these years.

Turgeon made a really good move.  Succeed here and he'll be even higher on the short list for KU when the time comes.

[sys]

location absolutely matters in recruiting, and manhattan, kansas is not a great location for college basketball.


however, talking about location with respect to kstate and dca is missing the point.  when malone liked kstate, kstate signed 6 dca players over a two year span, when malone didn't like kstate, kstate signed zero dca players.  over that same period, the two nationally prominent power schools in the dmv area signed zero dca players.  malone didn't like them.  rutgers, located within the region, went from signing zero dca players over the previous five years to signing everyone they had available when they hired a coach that malone wanted them to hire.

like location, connections always matter in recruiting, however; in the specific case of players influenced by curtis malone, there is abundant evidence that connections are far more important than location.


those bringing up transfers & martin's demeanor also miss the point, although it is more understandable. we may not have seen it at the time, or at least, for a time, we tried to convince ourselves that we weren't seeing what we thought we were, but malone turned off the dca player spigot long before judge left, before sutton left, perhaps even before anderson left (can't recall, don't want to check, but i'm pretty sure).  when malone stopped bringing players out for kstate elite camps, it was over.  when malone stopped sending dca to mokan's tournament, it was over.

[MakeItRain]

location absolutely matters in recruiting, and manhattan, kansas is not a great location for college basketball.


however, talking about location with respect to kstate and dca is missing the point.  when malone liked kstate, kstate signed 6 dca players over a two year span, when malone didn't like kstate, kstate signed zero dca players.  over that same period, the two nationally prominent power schools in the dmv area signed zero dca players.  malone didn't like them.  rutgers, located within the region, went from signing zero dca players over the previous five years to signing everyone they had available when they hired a coach that malone wanted them to hire.

like location, connections always matter in recruiting, however; in the specific case of players influenced by curtis malone, there is abundant evidence that connections are far more important than location.


those bringing up transfers & martin's demeanor also miss the point, although it is more understandable. we may not have seen it at the time, or at least, for a time, we tried to convince ourselves that we weren't seeing what we thought we were, but malone turned off the dca player spigot long before judge left, before sutton left, perhaps even before anderson left (can't recall, don't want to check, but i'm pretty sure).  when malone stopped bringing players out for kstate elite camps, it was over.  when malone stopped sending dca to mokan's tournament, it was over.

Your point is well taken but there is a distinction that needs to be made.  Gary got butt hurt and appeared to cut off his nose to spite his face as it relates to DCA.  He was publicly calling people out.  Frank, Dalonte, and K-State would have crawled over hot coals to get even DCA scraps.  Malone didn't need to feel pressured to keep a kid or two at UMD because Williams was publicly burning bridges.

To put it crudely but succinctly; it seems to me that Gary Williams took a eff Curtis Malone attitude and Curtis Malone took a eff K-State attitude.  I have no idea what the dynamic is between DCA and JT3.  I know there are some fairly influential people who hate the crap out of his pops though.

[steve dave]

location absolutely matters in recruiting, and manhattan, kansas is not a great location for college basketball.


however, talking about location with respect to kstate and dca is missing the point.  when malone liked kstate, kstate signed 6 dca players over a two year span, when malone didn't like kstate, kstate signed zero dca players.  over that same period, the two nationally prominent power schools in the dmv area signed zero dca players.  malone didn't like them.  rutgers, located within the region, went from signing zero dca players over the previous five years to signing everyone they had available when they hired a coach that malone wanted them to hire.

like location, connections always matter in recruiting, however; in the specific case of players influenced by curtis malone, there is abundant evidence that connections are far more important than location.


those bringing up transfers & martin's demeanor also miss the point, although it is more understandable. we may not have seen it at the time, or at least, for a time, we tried to convince ourselves that we weren't seeing what we thought we were, but malone turned off the dca player spigot long before judge left, before sutton left, perhaps even before anderson left (can't recall, don't want to check, but i'm pretty sure).  when malone stopped bringing players out for kstate elite camps, it was over.  when malone stopped sending dca to mokan's tournament, it was over.

Your point is well taken but there is a distinction that needs to be made.  Gary got butt hurt and appeared to cut off his nose to spite his face as it relates to DCA.  He was publicly calling people out.  Frank, Dalonte, and K-State would have crawled over hot coals to get even DCA scraps.  Malone didn't need to feel pressured to keep a kid or two at UMD because Williams was publicly burning bridges.

To put it crudely but succinctly; it seems to me that Gary Williams took a eff Curtis Malone attitude and Curtis Malone took a eff K-State attitude.  I have no idea what the dynamic is between DCA and JT3.  I know there are some fairly influential people who hate the crap out of his pops though.

I am not 100% up to speed on Cox's leaving GT for Rutgers.  Was the DCA spigot shut off at GT like it was at KSU when Cox was still there?

[sys]

To put it crudely but succinctly; it seems to me that Gary Williams took a eff Curtis Malone attitude and Curtis Malone took a eff K-State attitude.

that's a good way to put it.  that's what it feels like to me too.  from malone's perspective though, i think he just doesn't give second chances.


as for williams, he won a nat'l championship and he knows what malone is.  i have no idea how or when he learned, but if i had to guess, i'd guess he didn't take a eff malone attitude until he found out.

[Dugout DickStone]

To put it crudely but succinctly; it seems to me that Gary Williams took a eff Curtis Malone attitude and Curtis Malone took a eff K-State attitude.

that's a good way to put it.  that's what it feels like to me too.  from malone's perspective though, i think he just doesn't give second chances.


as for williams, he won a nat'l championship and he knows what malone is.  i have no idea how or when he learned, but if i had to guess, i'd guess he didn't take a eff malone attitude until he found out.

Was GW some saint when he won at Maryland?

[sys]

I am not 100% up to speed on Cox's leaving GT for Rutgers.  Was the DCA spigot shut off at GT like it was at KSU when Cox was still there?

g'town coach craig esherick signed dca recruit jeff green but was fired before coaching him.  green stayed to play under jt3, left in 2007 spurning joel bell to hire a different agent.

in 2008, jt3 hired former dca coach david cox from pittsburg in an attempt to repair relations with dca.  cox secured a verbal commit from 2011 dca jordan goodman, but left g'town for rutgers, taking goodman, following the 2009-2010 season.  jt3 has never signed a dca recruit, before or after hiring cox.

[catzacker]

To put it crudely but succinctly; it seems to me that Gary Williams took a eff Curtis Malone attitude and Curtis Malone took a eff K-State attitude.  I have no idea what the dynamic is between DCA and JT3.  I know there are some fairly influential people who hate the crap out of his pops though.

both pissed curtis off.  as sys pointed out, when we were in curtis' favor, nothing seemed to matter.  but when frank, for whatever reason(s), pissed curtis off, they stopped coming.  my point is that it's not 'te, not manhattan, ks, not KSU.....it's FRANK/THE HEAD COACH.  and the reason(s), whether they are logical or illogical, are moot. 

[michigancat]

To put it crudely but succinctly; it seems to me that Gary Williams took a eff Curtis Malone attitude and Curtis Malone took a eff K-State attitude.  I have no idea what the dynamic is between DCA and JT3.  I know there are some fairly influential people who hate the crap out of his pops though.

both pissed curtis off.  as sys pointed out, when we were in curtis' favor, nothing seemed to matter.  but when frank, for whatever reason(s), pissed curtis off, they stopped coming.  my point is that it's not 'te, not manhattan, ks, not KSU.....it's FRANK/THE HEAD COACH.  and the reason(s), whether they are logical or illogical, are moot. 

It wasn't Frank that took us out of Curtis's favor. It was pretty much out of his control.

[steve dave]

To put it crudely but succinctly; it seems to me that Gary Williams took a eff Curtis Malone attitude and Curtis Malone took a eff K-State attitude.  I have no idea what the dynamic is between DCA and JT3.  I know there are some fairly influential people who hate the crap out of his pops though.

both pissed curtis off.  as sys pointed out, when we were in curtis' favor, nothing seemed to matter.  but when frank, for whatever reason(s), pissed curtis off, they stopped coming.  my point is that it's not 'te, not manhattan, ks, not KSU.....it's FRANK/THE HEAD COACH.  and the reason(s), whether they are logical or illogical, are moot. 

It wasn't Frank that took us out of Curtis's favor. It was pretty much out of his control.

yeah, we got totally mumped in that deal. 

[kougar24]

To put it crudely but succinctly; it seems to me that Gary Williams took a eff Curtis Malone attitude and Curtis Malone took a eff K-State attitude.  I have no idea what the dynamic is between DCA and JT3.  I know there are some fairly influential people who hate the crap out of his pops though.

both pissed curtis off.  as sys pointed out, when we were in curtis' favor, nothing seemed to matter.  but when frank, for whatever reason(s), pissed curtis off, they stopped coming.  my point is that it's not 'te, not manhattan, ks, not KSU.....it's FRANK/THE HEAD COACH.  and the reason(s), whether they are logical or illogical, are moot. 

It wasn't Frank that took us out of Curtis's favor. It was pretty much out of his control.

...Beaz telling all his original handlers to eff off?

[catzacker]

To put it crudely but succinctly; it seems to me that Gary Williams took a eff Curtis Malone attitude and Curtis Malone took a eff K-State attitude.  I have no idea what the dynamic is between DCA and JT3.  I know there are some fairly influential people who hate the crap out of his pops though.

both pissed curtis off.  as sys pointed out, when we were in curtis' favor, nothing seemed to matter.  but when frank, for whatever reason(s), pissed curtis off, they stopped coming.  my point is that it's not 'te, not manhattan, ks, not KSU.....it's FRANK/THE HEAD COACH.  and the reason(s), whether they are logical or illogical, are moot. 

It wasn't Frank that took us out of Curtis's favor. It was pretty much out of his control.

also, so I suppose 'te leaving to maryland will be a case study in whether or not curtis' hate is transferable?

[chum1]

Why does it matter that we get our mediocre recruits from DC Assault rather than from somewhere else?

[sys]

Jorge Fernandez??

If he just has Florida ties...seems kind of pointless

kitchen is a clown & bp has quashed this Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) idea.