Nino Williams: 2011-12 & debate about whether Southwell sucks or not.

[Cartierfor3]

he's already more valuable than post-frosh Dom. Dom's D went downhill.

lol, no.

lol. yes. stop being a tard about dom. shane's bbiq is significantly higher.

the Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) dom love is one of the more Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) things that goes on here.

I remember Dom's first game, thinking he was going to be Bill-like with that athleticism.  Sad really how he progressively got worse and then took his ball and went home

[sys]

the revisionist hate is stupider.  you're either dramatically overrating his freshmen defense or dramatically underrating his subsequent defense.  either way, the idea that he regressed defensively is indefensible.

[OregonSmock]

What are we expecting from this kid.  He was a 4* guy, yet I don't feel that most have particularly high hopes for him.  HBBIQrs and HRecruitingIQrs chime in.  

I haven't seen enough of Williams to know how good he can be, but Rivals doesn't just hand out 4-stars to anybody.  He obviously has some skill and some raw athletic ability... the question is whether or not K-State's coaching staff will be able to turn that into a solid Big 12 level player.  My guess is that Williams will develop into a Travis Releford type of player for K-State.  He'll be a guy who can come in for 10-15 minutes of really solid up-in-your-face defense, and he might even score a few baskets in the process.

As for Southwell, I think he's got a chance to be a really good player for K-State.  His shot isn't there yet, but he seems to have a good feel for the game, and his length can create problems for opposing guards.  I would expect Southwell to start next season along with Spradling (who is going to be a stud), McGruder (stud), Samuels (I expect him to have a Darnell Jackson-like senior season), and Roberts (owned the Morris twins in Manhattan and should continue to improve).  K-State will obviously miss Pullen next season, but the overall future is bright.

[WillieWatanabe]

[j-dub]

the revisionist hate is stupider.  you're either dramatically overrating his freshmen defense or dramatically underrating his subsequent defense.  either way, the idea that he regressed defensively is indefensible.

if it was revisionist i would agree. but i've been anti-dom for a long time. and his d did suffer, because his confidence was so up and down. mostly down.

Quote from: kitten_mittons on July 02, 2010, 02:39:30 PM
Dudes, Dom wasn't that great.  He made some great steals, transition dunks, and put backs, but other than that he didn't do much.  I hated to see teams lay off him from 15 feet and he couldn't even put the ball close to going in.

Quote from: j-dub on July 02, 2010, 02:47:42 PM

this.

dude couldn't shoot a jump shot. also, was a headcase. he was the athletic version of energy.

bring it sys. i'm right here.

[sys]

that post was from after he left, so still revisionist.  i agree that he couldn't shoot (as if anyone disagrees), have no idea if he was a headcase or not, his defense was significantly better as a soph/jr than as a freshman.  great rebounder too.

[catzacker]

i don't see why anyone would expect anything out of nick this coming year.  rodney avg'd 3ppg/2rpg in 12mpg his freshman year.   

[SuperG]

What are we expecting from this kid.  He was a 4* guy, yet I don't feel that most have particularly high hopes for him.  HBBIQrs and HRecruitingIQrs chime in.  

I haven't seen enough of Williams to know how good he can be, but Rivals doesn't just hand out 4-stars to anybody.  He obviously has some skill and some raw athletic ability... the question is whether or not K-State's coaching staff will be able to turn that into a solid Big 12 level player.  My guess is that Williams will develop into a Travis Releford type of player for K-State.  He'll be a guy who can come in for 10-15 minutes of really solid up-in-your-face defense, and he might even score a few baskets in the process.

As for Southwell, I think he's got a chance to be a really good player for K-State.  His shot isn't there yet, but he seems to have a good feel for the game, and his length can create problems for opposing guards.  I would expect Southwell to start next season along with Spradling (who is going to be a stud), McGruder (stud), Samuels (I expect him to have a Darnell Jackson-like senior season), and Roberts (owned the Morris twins in Manhattan and should continue to improve).  K-State will obviously miss Pullen next season, but the overall future is bright.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

I'd like to think scoring will come a little easier for Nino than say Dom or Shane. That would certainly be helpful as we figure out where our points will come from next year.

Also, considering how the season went for Nino, it's interesting to ponder whether his redshirt freshman year turns out to be more valuable than a competitive season in prep school would have been.

[SuperG]

i don't see why anyone would expect anything out of nick this coming year.  rodney avg'd 3ppg/2rpg in 12mpg his freshman year.   

'Gruds production out of Nino next year would be fine.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&dominique-sutton=2007-2008&p1=dominique-sutton&p2=shane-southwell&rodney-mcgruder=2009-2010

[cas4ksu]

he was horrible this year, but his potential as a defender is pretty obvious.

If he ever becomes an average offensive player, he'll be a heck of a player.

I don't ever see Southwell becoming more than a poor man's Dom. Shooting is about equally as horrendous. Defensively, Dom was quite a ways ahead of SS at this point, IMO. Passing, SS is better clearly. His passing can be negated relatively easy if the other team is smart enough to sag off him (or go box and 1) and make him do something offensively.

he's already more valuable than post-frosh Dom. Dom's D went downhill, his confidence was on perpetual life support, and he added nothing offensively, save for finishing run outs..

both are without jump shots but shane has the balls to at least shoot out to the perimeter if he's open. dom would not. except that one nebraska game.

Offensively, Dom provided finishing at the rim, slashing, as well as Orebounding. Shane hasn't even sniffed that yet. From what I've seen so far SS would be lucky to be compared to Dom.

[kso_FAN]

Shane and Dom are much different players with different skill sets. Both bad shooters, both good defenders, but different defender types. (all this based on very early returns on Shane of course). 

Give another year or two before we get heavy with the Shane/Dom comparos, but at the end of the day Akeem/Shane comparos will be better. JMHO.

[j-dub]

that post was from after he left, so still revisionist.  i agree that he couldn't shoot (as if anyone disagrees), have no idea if he was a headcase or not, his defense was significantly better as a soph/jr than as a freshman.  great rebounder too.

those thoughts had fully matured well before dom played like cac against butler and rode off into the sunset.

but i digress. i just wasted an evening on an irrelevant talking point.

[Tobias]

yup.

[cas4ksu]

Akeem/Shane comparos will be better. JMHO.

nail on the head. can't believe i forgot about 'keem hitting the ft to make it 59-55.

[nicname]

Yes, SS is def.more  of a AW than a DS.

[CatsFan_58]

Akeem/Shane comparos will be better. JMHO.

nail on the head. can't believe i forgot about 'keem hitting the ft to make it 59-55.

They are both lengthy guards, but i feel like shane can become more of a scorer than akeem was. i am an optimist, though.   

[chum1]

southwell is a completely different player than ds or aw.  unlike them, he contributes offensively as a distributor.  he's already the best passer on the team and shows a lot of potential in that role.  would you rather have another mediocre shooter out there shooting contested shots or shane in there helping to get the better shooters open looks?  he's an asset on offense.

[CrushNasty]

i don't see why anyone would expect anything out of nick this coming year.  rodney avg'd 3ppg/2rpg in 12mpg his freshman year.   

'Gruds production out of Nino next year would be fine.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&dominique-sutton=2007-2008&p1=dominique-sutton&p2=shane-southwell&rodney-mcgruder=2009-2010

 

Nick + rod talk.  Rod + nino talk.

Link comparing rod, dom, shane.   

[Cire]

I think Nino's body type helped get him a 4th star as much as anything else.

[AbeFroman]

  @ people that think Southwell's offense sucks. He didn't light anyone up this year (though did have a couple 4-4 fg/10 pt games), but I guarantee you by halfway through next year he'll be draining 15 footers with his eyes closed.

[CNS]

@ people that think Southwell's offense sucks. He didn't light anyone on fire, but I guarantee you by halfway through next year he'll be draining 15 footers with his eyes closed.

I agree that his midrange looked just fine.  His long ball and confidence are what is shaky.  That can change with an offseason of owning bitches. 

[1albatross]

@ people that think Southwell's offense sucks. He didn't light anyone up this year (though did have a couple 4-4 fg/10 pt games), but I guarantee you by halfway through next year he'll be draining 15 footers with his eyes closed.

What has he done to make you think that?  The kid only averaged 7 pts a game as a senior in High School.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see anything from this kid that I like other than his wingspan.

[CNS]

@ people that think Southwell's offense sucks. He didn't light anyone up this year (though did have a couple 4-4 fg/10 pt games), but I guarantee you by halfway through next year he'll be draining 15 footers with his eyes closed.

What has he done to make you think that?  The kid only averaged 7 pts a game as a senior in High School.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see anything from this kid that I like other than his wingspan.

His vision looks to be decent.  He needs to work on his handles and his long J.  Those will be his undoing, if he doesn't get better at them.

[kstate4life]

maybe they will both end up being really good 

[kscottbailey]

No clue on Nino Williams right now. I like that he's long and lean, and that he'll be 20 years old before his RS-FR season begins. I also like that he played big in his biggest games in high school, but there's no way to tell how that translates without seeing more from him at this level.

As for Shane, after a jittery start, he played great in some big games in conference, until Frank started yanking around his playing time for having a couple of bad practices. Even still, he managed to tie Jake for second (behind Will) in conference A/TO ratio. That's not something that happens by accident--especially when your coach is teaching you "lessons" a lot by yanking your playing time around. He wasn't a great scorer, but that seemed to come more from a "know your role" kind of thing, than from any inherent fear the kid had of taking shots. He also had the 3rd most blocks, and the 3rd most steals in conference as well. Kid can play.