Frank has gone 10-6, 9-7, 11-5, 10-6

[fatty fat fat]

in his first four years in conference play.

I guess I just don't see how a coach w/that kind of track record falls to something like 6-10 (or 7-11 now).

decent (cal)-train of thought?

[CNS]

Jake

[hemmy]

Well, how would you compare next yrs group to the 9-7 team?

[fatty fat fat]

Jake

one play....four seasons? maybe, but i don't see it.

frank has just been too impressive his first four years for us to really dip next year.

[Panjandrum]

Frank's teams play good defense and rebound well.  That boat will carry you across some pretty rough waters when necessary.

Manhattan will continue to be a tough place to play.  Even during our disappointing season, we only lost one home game.

I think some people are overboard in their pessimism.  I don't think they're going to compete for a Big 12 title by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think they'll be better than most people think.

[CNS]

Jake

one play....four seasons? maybe, but i don't see it.

frank has just been too impressive his first four years for us to really dip next year.

FFF, don't get me wrong.  I am a Frankite and don't believe that Jake was the only thing that KSU had going for us.  Just sad more than anything.

[Panjandrum]

Well, how would you compare next yrs group to the 9-7 team?

Favorably.

The best post on the 08-09 team was Kent.  We had Pullen and Clemente, sure, but Pullen wasn't nearly the player he is now, and Dennis wasn't either.  They both really refined their game and their chemistry for that senior season.

The overall level of talent is better for next year (presumably).

We'll be fine.

[chum1]

every team has been very different, too.  frank is balls.

[kso_FAN]

Well, how would you compare next yrs group to the 9-7 team?

I think the comparison is favorable. There will be a detailed comparison of the personnel from the two teams coming this week. The key is finding the next Clemente/Jacob type leader that is fully bought in; seems pretty clear Frank is grooming Sprads to be that guy.

[Ira Hayes]

Dont' forget that next year we replace 4 games against Colorado and Nebraska (4-0, 3-1, 4-0, 2-2) with 6 games against Texas, Texas A&M, Okie St, OU, Baylor, and Billy Gillespie.

[fatty fat fat]

Dont' forget that next year we replace 4 games against Colorado and Nebraska (4-0, 3-1, 4-0, 2-2) with 6 games against Texas, Texas A&M, Okie St, OU, Baylor, and Billy Gillespie.

this is extremely irrelevant.

[wabash909]

Sprads is a nice complimentary point guard, but I think we've seen enough to know he's not Pullen or Clemente.  We need either a top flight transfer or Angel to be the guy to fill that role for us, because I don't see it on the roster.  That's not to say it won't happen, because if one thing has been consistent is that Frank finds a way to address needs.

[Ira Hayes]

Dont' forget that next year we replace 4 games against Colorado and Nebraska (4-0, 3-1, 4-0, 2-2) with 6 games against Texas, Texas A&M, Okie St, OU, Baylor, and Billy Gillespie.

this is extremely irrelevant.

Unless you're trying to compare records.

[Stevesie60]

Sprads is a nice complimentary point guard, but I think we've seen enough to know he's not Pullen or Clemente.  We need either a top flight transfer or Angel to be the guy to fill that role for us, because I don't see it on the roster.  That's not to say it won't happen, because if one thing has been consistent is that Frank finds a way to address needs.

From what I've read about Angel, I think it's him. But he won't be able to do it this year, maybe not even next year.

[chum1]

we failed to replace clemente this year and were fine.  frank's teams are not simply reincarnations of his previous teams.

[kso_FAN]

Sprads is a nice complimentary point guard, but I think we've seen enough to know he's not Pullen or Clemente.  We need either a top flight transfer or Angel to be the guy to fill that role for us, because I don't see it on the roster.  That's not to say it won't happen, because if one thing has been consistent is that Frank finds a way to address needs.

From what I've read about Angel, I think it's him. But he won't be able to do it this year, maybe not even next year.

Perhaps its Angel, but I'm not sure we'll see it from a freshman.

I'm not saying Sprads will be as good a player as Pullen/Clemente, but that Frank's MO is to groom someone to be a leader, and he's handled Spradling that way. He's also done it a bit with McGruder, so it could be one of those two.

[Stevesie60]

Sprads is a nice complimentary point guard, but I think we've seen enough to know he's not Pullen or Clemente.  We need either a top flight transfer or Angel to be the guy to fill that role for us, because I don't see it on the roster.  That's not to say it won't happen, because if one thing has been consistent is that Frank finds a way to address needs.

From what I've read about Angel, I think it's him. But he won't be able to do it this year, maybe not even next year.

Perhaps its Angel, but I'm not sure we'll see it from a freshman.

I'm not saying Sprads will be as good a player as Pullen/Clemente, but that Frank's MO is to groom someone to be a leader, and he's handled Spradling that way. He's also done it a bit with McGruder, so it could be one of those two.

If I'm on a college basketball team, there's no way I'd listen to some kid from JoCo who sounds like he's 14 when he talks.

[Ira Hayes]

Dont' forget that next year we replace 4 games against Colorado and Nebraska (4-0, 3-1, 4-0, 2-2) with 6 games against Texas, Texas A&M, Okie St, OU, Baylor, and Billy Gillespie.

this is extremely irrelevant.

Unless you're trying to compare records.

Throw out the CU/NU games and doubling the South games (3 more home, 3 more away) seems like a fair way to estimate.  That gives:

07-08 10-6 --> 9-9
08-09 9-7 --> 9-9
09-10 11-5 --> 12-6
10-11 10-6 --> 12-6

All but this year give a lower win%.

[WillieWatanabe]

Interesting tidbit from Meek about re: Frank's leaders.

"I did something this year that I've never done before and probably will never do again,” Martin said. “I kind of called out a couple players publicly when I questioned our team's leadership, because I didn't think that was very good …

“The commitment that (Pullen) made to lead our team, to make those other guys around him better players, the will to win, that's special.”

[michigancat]

Sprads is a nice complimentary point guard, but I think we've seen enough to know he's not Pullen or Clemente.  We need either a top flight transfer or Angel to be the guy to fill that role for us, because I don't see it on the roster.  That's not to say it won't happen, because if one thing has been consistent is that Frank finds a way to address needs.

He's not Pullen or Clemente, but I think he can put up numbers similar to Pullen's sophomore season next year. He just won't get them the same way Pullen did, just like Pullen didn't put up numbers the same way Clemente did. chum has a great point - every FM team has been wildly different, but have all been pretty successful.

I could not care less about "leadership".

[mcmwcat]

Dont' forget that next year we replace 4 games against Colorado and Nebraska (4-0, 3-1, 4-0, 2-2) with 6 games against Texas, Texas A&M, Okie St, OU, Baylor, and Billy Gillespie.

this is extremely irrelevant.

Unless you're trying to compare records.

are you saying schedule will be easier or more difficult?

[Ira Hayes]

are you saying schedule will be easier or more difficult?

More difficult, but the numbers I posted showed that was only really the case in 07-08 so I'm probably wrong.

[michigancat]

A worse winning percentage will not mean Frank is doing a worse job is what fats is trying to say:

.500 record in new B12 > .500 record in old B12

[sonofdaxjones]

9-9 next year.   NCAA bubble team.

[Gary Patterson Jr.]

Sprads is a nice complimentary point guard, but I think we've seen enough to know he's not Pullen or Clemente.  We need either a top flight transfer or Angel to be the guy to fill that role for us, because I don't see it on the roster.  That's not to say it won't happen, because if one thing has been consistent is that Frank finds a way to address needs.

He's not Pullen or Clemente, but I think he can put up numbers similar to Pullen's sophomore season next year. He just won't get them the same way Pullen did, just like Pullen didn't put up numbers the same way Clemente did. chum has a great point - every FM team has been wildly different, but have all been pretty successful.

I could not care less about "leadership".

This. It's like when people say McGruds has to step up and be the next Pullen the styles just aren't comparable. I'm sure Frank will have to tweek the offense again to make adjustments for the abilities we will have. Much like the "run and gun" style that Clemente could lead had to be modified once Clemente left.

I just see us with an offense that is more half court based with much more ball movement trying to find the open man.