Holy War

[skycat]

For the atheist, who cares if religious people don't accept gays? What does it matter? Must everyone agree with you?

"Don't accept" is a pretty broad strawman. Personally, I have a problem with gays not having equal rights as straight people, based solely on their gayness, like I would any other group of people that is not harming others. I imagine this is how many atheists feel, as well.

This. Gays aren't hurting anyone, but religious people have long been hurting gays by discriminating against them, passing "defense of marriage" laws, barring them from military service, passing anti-sodomy laws, barring them from the Boy Scouts, disowning them from their families, beating them up, killing them, etc. Attitudes and laws are rapidly changing, thankfully, to the horror of religious conservatives. They're getting beat silly in the culture wars.

Make no mistake that religious conservatives are the main culprits. In a Oct. 6, 2010 Pew survey of Americans:

20% of white evangelical Protestants supported gay marriage; 74% opposed it.
31% of all Protestants supported it; 59% opposed it.
46% of Catholics supported it; 42% opposed it. Catholics are coming around, but 42% of Catholics is still a huge number of people.
62% of "unaffiliated" people supported it; 28% opposed it.
76% of Jews supported it, 18% opposed it. Bravo, Jews!
80% of atheists/agnostics supported it; 16% opposed it.

This meshes with my own experience. Most of my friends are non-believers, and none of them have a problem with gays.

[the KHAN!]

Again, that's a strawman. I have experienced revulsion at the 2 girls 1 cup video, but I don't think they should be stripped of any rights the average American enjoyed. Similarly, I don't think polygamy or incest should be illegal as long as they occur among consenting adults

So why not speak out in favor of those rights?

, (although I have not researched the possibility of birth defects from incest to speak intelligently on that matter).

Meh, abortions man. Abortions.

Regardless, I definitely am not in favor of stripping participants of those practices their basic human rights.

Where do these most basic of human rights come from?

[OK_Cat]

this is where the kahn starts to argue that if gays get rights, then kiddie rapists and animal fuckers should, too.....except that argument isn't valid, because we're talking about a relationship between two consenting adults.

[wetwillie]

this is where the kahn starts to argue that if gays get rights, then kiddie rapists and animal effers should, too.....except that argument isn't valid, because we're talking about a relationship between two consenting adults.

Why does it have to be two?

[the KHAN!]

this is where the kahn starts to argue that if gays get rights, then kiddie rapists and animal fuckers should, too.....except that argument isn't valid, because we're talking about a relationship between two consenting adults.

Nonsense, it's not at all where I'm going, but I appreciate the thought.

We all agree that those people shouldn't get rights to do what they want.

However, comparable groups are incestuous relationships (two consenting adults) or polygamists (multiple consenting adults) who do not have the right to love whomever they want. You can shoot down the other sicko groups you've mentioned with ease, but can you do the same for the groups I brought up, or are you prepared to wave their flags too?

[OK_Cat]

this is where the kahn starts to argue that if gays get rights, then kiddie rapists and animal effers should, too.....except that argument isn't valid, because we're talking about a relationship between two consenting adults.

Why does it have to be two?

   i didn't say it had to be.  i don't care if 10 people want to shack up and have some sort of group marriage.  doesn't effect me.

[OK_Cat]

this is where the kahn starts to argue that if gays get rights, then kiddie rapists and animal fuckers should, too.....except that argument isn't valid, because we're talking about a relationship between two consenting adults.

Nonsense, it's not at all where I'm going, but I appreciate the thought.

We all agree that those people shouldn't get rights to do what they want.

However, comparable groups are incestuous relationships (two consenting adults) or polygamists (multiple consenting adults) who do not have the right to love whomever they want. You can shoot down the other sicko groups you've mentioned with ease, but can you do the same for the groups I brought up, or are you prepared to wave their flags too?

as long as the people(s) involved are consenting adults, then who cares?  let them do what they want.  i can shoot down kiddie rapists or animal fuckers, because it's not between consenting adults.

[the KHAN!]

this is where the kahn starts to argue that if gays get rights, then kiddie rapists and animal fuckers should, too.....except that argument isn't valid, because we're talking about a relationship between two consenting adults.

Nonsense, it's not at all where I'm going, but I appreciate the thought.

We all agree that those people shouldn't get rights to do what they want.

However, comparable groups are incestuous relationships (two consenting adults) or polygamists (multiple consenting adults) who do not have the right to love whomever they want. You can shoot down the other sicko groups you've mentioned with ease, but can you do the same for the groups I brought up, or are you prepared to wave their flags too?

as long as the people(s) involved are consenting adults, then who cares?  let them do what they want.  i can shoot down kiddie rapists or animal fuckers, because it's not between consenting adults.

So why aren't you speaking up for other "oppressed" groups that them thar religious people  are keeping down? Don't be a bigot now.

[michigancat]

Again, that's a strawman. I have experienced revulsion at the 2 girls 1 cup video, but I don't think they should be stripped of any rights the average American enjoyed. Similarly, I don't think polygamy or incest should be illegal as long as they occur among consenting adults

So why not speak out in favor of those rights?

I'm pretty sure that's what I just did.

[OK_Cat]

this is where the kahn starts to argue that if gays get rights, then kiddie rapists and animal fuckers should, too.....except that argument isn't valid, because we're talking about a relationship between two consenting adults.

Nonsense, it's not at all where I'm going, but I appreciate the thought.

We all agree that those people shouldn't get rights to do what they want.

However, comparable groups are incestuous relationships (two consenting adults) or polygamists (multiple consenting adults) who do not have the right to love whomever they want. You can shoot down the other sicko groups you've mentioned with ease, but can you do the same for the groups I brought up, or are you prepared to wave their flags too?

as long as the people(s) involved are consenting adults, then who cares?  let them do what they want.  i can shoot down kiddie rapists or animal fuckers, because it's not between consenting adults.

So why aren't you speaking up for other "oppressed" groups that them thar religious people  are keeping down? Don't be a bigot now.

   i don't know anyone who is into incest or who is in a group-marriage.  i know gay people. 

you're searching for something that isn't there, homie.  I don't give a eff what people do.

[bakerman]

Why does getting married get you benefits anyway? LMBIQ, but seems like it would be best to just do away with getting benefits when you get married. Then no one would be getting something over the other and there would be no incentive for gays to get married, which really is just a title at that point.

[wetwillie]

Why does getting married get you benefits anyway? LMBIQ, but seems like it would be best to just do away with getting benefits when you get married. Then no one would be getting something over the other and there would be no incentive for gays to get married, which really is just a title at that point.

was thinking this earlier, not sure what this would do with property rights etc.  Seems like a good idea however, as the government really doesn't need to be involved.

[the KHAN!]

Why does getting married get you benefits anyway? LMBIQ, but seems like it would be best to just do away with getting benefits when you get married. Then no one would be getting something over the other and there would be no incentive for gays to get married, which really is just a title at that point.

I imagine it has something to do with the idea that stable homes create stable citizens.  Gives incentives for people to stay together (which may indeed be bad...based on these divorce rates).

i don't know anyone who is into incest or who is in a group-marriage.  i know gay people.

you're searching for something that isn't there, homie.  I don't give a eff what people do.

Ok, Just checking for consistency. I am willing to bet that many a Gay Rights advocate who thinks Christians are backwards and inbred would disagree with you though. High fives for not judging, bro.

I'm pretty sure that's what I just did.

First time in your life. Five bucks on it.

[OK_Cat]

i don't know anyone who is into incest or who is in a group-marriage.  i know gay people.

you're searching for something that isn't there, homie.  I don't give a eff what people do.

Ok, Just checking for consistency. I am willing to bet that many a Gay Rights advocate who thinks Christians are backwards and inbred would disagree with you though. High fives for not judging, bro.

Meh, I attend church/church functions several times a week.  Most Christians aren't judgemental, but the minority that are just happen to be more vocal.  I'm not a gay rights advocate (or an advocate for anything, really...).  I just think that people get too caught up in trying to push others down because they're different than the mainstream, and that annoys me.

[KSU187]

BTW, lots of gay sex and incest in Genesis by people who are said to probably be in heaven.

Lot effs his daughters in a gang bang, also, Noah gets pak'd and gets effed by his son.

Somehow I don't think this kid is going to have a cutout of that though....

[michigancat]

I'm pretty sure that's what I just did.

First time in your life. Five bucks on it.

What does it matter? There are tons of oppressed groups in the world. Just because I haven't "spoken out" in favor of each group's rights doesn't mean I think they don't deserve them. Gay rights will be commented on more often because it is a more prevalent issue than incest or polygamy.

[the KHAN!]

I'm pretty sure that's what I just did.

First time in your life. Five bucks on it.

What does it matter? There are tons of oppressed groups in the world. Just because I haven't "spoken out" in favor of each group's rights doesn't mean I think they don't deserve them. Gay rights will be commented on more often because it is a more prevalent issue than incest or polygamy.

Which reminds me. Where do those rights come from again?

[michigancat]

I'm pretty sure that's what I just did.

First time in your life. Five bucks on it.

What does it matter? There are tons of oppressed groups in the world. Just because I haven't "spoken out" in favor of each group's rights doesn't mean I think they don't deserve them. Gay rights will be commented on more often because it is a more prevalent issue than incest or polygamy.

Which reminds me. Where do those rights come from again?

It doesn't matter where they came from. The problem is the denial of rights.

[bakerman]

I'm pretty sure that's what I just did.

First time in your life. Five bucks on it.

What does it matter? There are tons of oppressed groups in the world. Just because I haven't "spoken out" in favor of each group's rights doesn't mean I think they don't deserve them. Gay rights will be commented on more often because it is a more prevalent issue than incest or polygamy.

Which reminds me. Where do those rights come from again?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

[Rage Against the McKee]

I'm pretty sure that's what I just did.

First time in your life. Five bucks on it.

What does it matter? There are tons of oppressed groups in the world. Just because I haven't "spoken out" in favor of each group's rights doesn't mean I think they don't deserve them. Gay rights will be commented on more often because it is a more prevalent issue than incest or polygamy.

Which reminds me. Where do those rights come from again?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

If rights were God-given, those guys wouldn't have had to fight a war and establish a constitution to get them.

[Dirty Sanchez]

I'm pretty sure that's what I just did.

First time in your life. Five bucks on it.

What does it matter? There are tons of oppressed groups in the world. Just because I haven't "spoken out" in favor of each group's rights doesn't mean I think they don't deserve them. Gay rights will be commented on more often because it is a more prevalent issue than incest or polygamy.

Which reminds me. Where do those rights come from again?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

If rights were God-given, those guys wouldn't have had to fight a war and establish a constitution to get them.

They had them.  The Brits were infringing on them.  Government and individuals can only take, never give, rights.

[the KHAN!]

Exactly.

Unless you want to say that we have rights because we say we have rights. In that scenario it comes down to "might makes right." I am not inclined to believe that.

It doesn't matter where they came from. The problem is the denial of rights.

You don't honestly believe that do you?

Of course it matters where they came from. You can't just declare that you have a right and then demand everyone recognize it.

[skycat]

Great timing.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/20/gay-marriage-opponents-now-in-minority/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[skycat]

BTW, lots of gay sex and incest in Genesis by people who are said to probably be in heaven.

Lot effs his daughters in a gang bang, also, Noah gets pak'd and gets effed by his son.

Somehow I don't think this kid is going to have a cutout of that though....

Oh man, this gives me all kinds of awesome ideas.

[PoetWarrior]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

They had it right that we can't start from ourselves.

We need a universal.