Author Topic: Holy War  (Read 163551 times)

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Offline PoetWarrior

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #425 on: March 24, 2011, 04:03:43 PM »
We don't know the heart of Fred Phelps.

We don't know where he's going.

Offline PoetWarrior

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #426 on: March 24, 2011, 04:10:42 PM »
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"Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father.  And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." Matthew 10:29-31

The Bible makes sense, others do not. Look into it.

Lol.  

God cares about us. Surely a person can read and understand that.

Does he care about gay people and babies born to muslim parents?

He cares about them as much as anyone who has ever lived.

He wants gays to repent and accept Him and His truth.

And he wants babies born to muslims to know his truth just as he wants anyone to, including the parents.

It's not too late for anyone, yet, but there will be a time when it is.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #427 on: March 24, 2011, 05:39:06 PM »
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"Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father.  And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." Matthew 10:29-31

The Bible makes sense, others do not. Look into it.

Lol.  

God cares about us. Surely a person can read and understand that.

Does he care about gay people and babies born to muslim parents?

He cares about them as much as anyone who has ever lived.

He wants gays to repent and accept Him and His truth.

And he wants babies born to muslims to know his truth just as he wants anyone to, including the parents.

It's not too late for anyone, yet, but there will be a time when it is.

What if the baby dies at age 1?  NEver having been baptised, or to a christian church, or even read a bible?

Offline pike

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #428 on: March 24, 2011, 05:56:44 PM »
I think it sucks that Ghandhi is in hell. He was a great guy.

Offline CNS

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #429 on: March 24, 2011, 05:58:15 PM »
God wants every part of us. Jesus asked a rich man to give up everything he had, not for the poor, but for Him, because he wants every piece and aspect of him. He doesn't want half of our attention, he wants it all.

The man wanted to believe, but when Jesus asked him to give up the one thing he obviously cared about most (his wealth), he wasn't willing to give it up. This is the complete opposite of what Christ asks of us. He wants us to give up everything for Him. Because he wants all of us.

You can't accept 25-50% of this (of Him), you accept 100% or nothing.

Immediately following what was quoted earlier:

"Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”

The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?”

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”

Then Peter spoke up, “We have left everything to follow you!”

“Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

give up family, home, wealth, everything...

sounds very cultish.

your interpretation is diff than what a face value of that is.  

Offline PoetWarrior

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #430 on: March 24, 2011, 07:16:55 PM »
What if the baby dies at age 1?  NEver having been baptised, or to a christian church, or even read a bible?

I don't know.

But baptism, attending church and even reading the Bible are not requirements of salvation, for anyone.

Offline PoetWarrior

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #431 on: March 24, 2011, 07:17:51 PM »
I think it sucks that Ghandhi is in hell. He was a great guy.

By what standard was he a great guy?

Offline PoetWarrior

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #432 on: March 24, 2011, 07:22:14 PM »
God wants every part of us. Jesus asked a rich man to give up everything he had, not for the poor, but for Him, because he wants every piece and aspect of him. He doesn't want half of our attention, he wants it all.

The man wanted to believe, but when Jesus asked him to give up the one thing he obviously cared about most (his wealth), he wasn't willing to give it up. This is the complete opposite of what Christ asks of us. He wants us to give up everything for Him. Because he wants all of us.

You can't accept 25-50% of this (of Him), you accept 100% or nothing.

Immediately following what was quoted earlier:

"Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”

The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?”

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”

Then Peter spoke up, “We have left everything to follow you!”

“Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

give up family, home, wealth, everything...

sounds very cultish.

your interpretation is diff than what a face value of that is.  

No it isn't.

Christ wants our lives + He is the savior of the world = We should give it to Him.

We don't even have to kill ourselves. (< funny joke)


It's about priorities. If ANYTHING stands between you and Christ, give it up. Why have a desire to hold onto meaningless things?

Offline CNS

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #433 on: March 24, 2011, 07:39:26 PM »
hmmm...

that sounds like more interpretation to me.

still sound cultish, only with hell/fear as the enforcer that beats you down if you try to leave.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #434 on: March 24, 2011, 10:39:00 PM »
What if the baby dies at age 1?  NEver having been baptised, or to a christian church, or even read a bible?

I don't know.

But baptism, attending church and even reading the Bible are not requirements of salvation, for anyone.

What of the baby doesn't yet believe in god or jc?

Offline the KHAN!

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #435 on: March 24, 2011, 11:02:13 PM »


that sounds like more interpretation to me.

I would be very skeptical if it wasn't interpretation. If he somehow claimed to know everything for certain.  That would be far more disturbing.
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Offline dohminator

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #436 on: March 24, 2011, 11:55:47 PM »
What if the baby dies at age 1?  NEver having been baptised, or to a christian church, or even read a bible?

I don't know.

But baptism, attending church and even reading the Bible are not requirements of salvation, for anyone.

What standard is it based on then?  You have to accept Jesus as your lord and savior but you don't have to know anything about what he talked about or participate in any activities related to worshiping him?  That sounds asinine because you could live your life in complete ignorance and not live it as Jesus taught it and be saved. 

Also, Jesus was a socialist.  Just saying. 

Offline the KHAN!

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #437 on: March 24, 2011, 11:58:36 PM »
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Also, Jesus was a socialist.  Just saying. 
Either you're an idiot who is just repeating what someone once said that you thought was trendy...or you are correct and just proved Jesus to be a social scientist about 1800 years ahead of his time.
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Offline dohminator

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #438 on: March 25, 2011, 12:09:27 AM »
For CNS.. No, Jesus was not stating that God only rewards the poor.  Jesus is speaking deeply about the spiritual principle of non-attachment, renunciation, and devotion to God.  It is not literal.

Many commentators believe that the man in the passage was St. Mark himself, as the full story only appears in his gospel (Matthew and Luke leave out some stuff), whom Jesus was instructing to drop everything and follow him literally.  But the camel and the eye of the needle illustration is, of course, a metaphorical representation.  For me, it represents the principle of "God First; God Alone" (a mantra that I love).

And then you end up with evangelical teachings of the gospel of prosperity were being financially rich is praised as coming from that you are super devoted to God, were I think the real examples are those that eschew wealth in the pursuit of the benefit of others.  A great example would be the Franciscan Friars. 

You know, I spent way to much time studying my religion as a Catholic and I can argue from the Catholic position and as an avowed atheist.  I spent time considering whether I was called to be a priest.  It was a good decision that I didn't pursue that because as I learned more about the world, the more I learned that there is no proof for a damn bit of anything.  We can spend all day arguing about the merits of this or that thought, but when it comes down to it, nobody can prove a damn thing of anything.  And so I default to my natural position, which is that unless anyone can prove that religious feelings are caused by anything more than society and chemicals in our brain, I can not believe that it is true.   

Offline dohminator

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #439 on: March 25, 2011, 12:13:57 AM »
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Also, Jesus was a socialist.  Just saying. 
Either you're an idiot who is just repeating what someone once said that you thought was trendy...or you are correct and just proved Jesus to be a social scientist about 1800 years ahead of his time.

I might be exaggerating a little bit but I do think that Jesus would be much more in line with socialistic thinking than with capitalistic thinking.  Taking care of the least of us and the poor and the sick aligns much more with socialism than it does with pure unregulated capitalism. 

Offline the KHAN!

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #440 on: March 25, 2011, 12:14:40 AM »
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And so I default to my natural position, which is that unless anyone can prove that religious feelings are caused by anything more than society and chemicals in our brain, I can not believe that it is true.  

Yet, and I say this on the assumption you don't have a PhD in Neuroscience, you didn't investigate the matter yourself and just took the word of others as fact.  How shocking that you would accept something without proof!

Quote
I might be exaggerating a little bit but I do think that Jesus would be much more in line with socialistic thinking than with capitalistic thinking.  Taking care of the least of us and the poor and the sick aligns much more with socialism than it does with pure unregulated capitalism. 

I think it goes along with Charity more than either, to be honest.
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Offline dohminator

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #441 on: March 25, 2011, 12:19:43 AM »
God is an bad person.  What kind of effing bad person would condemn most of the people on the face of the earth to an eternity of suffering because they didn't know about or choose the right path.  Especially without giving them any kind of proof that He even exists, and in fact lots of ways to explain our existence without needing him to exist.  What kind of bad person would deceive the world like that, let people fight wars and kill each other in his name, without telling us who is right.  And why does this bad person wait for us to die to let us know for sure whether we are going to burn in hell or live in eternal bliss.  What kind of bad person just sits there and watches people suffer and could do something about it, but chooses not to?  

Either God is an bad person or doesn't exist.  

Also, prove why any of your holy books are more correct than any other holy books.  

The book of Job says that you are correct. Here is the flaw in you logic: Why would God care about death and suffering if your life is nothing more than a test to see where you end up after you die? Seriously, if you could create an entire world of people, would you get all bent out of shape about each and every little thing that happened to each and every little person? I would just sit back and enjoy the show.

Yeah, but it does kinda go against that all-loving and all merciful nature that God supposedly possesses.  A god that is an bad person is not worthy of worship

"All men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)
Man was given a choice in the very beginning (so we could experience true joy) and he chose wrong. So, it's our fault, we suffer because of the choice(s) we made. The good news (great news), is that even though man screwed up, and continues to inherently screw up, God provided a way for us to be redeemed. His one begotten Son (important distinction), came to earth, lived as a man and died for us (this is supported by real history), paying the penalty for our sins. We have been given a second chance. It only takes repentance and faith in Him to be rejoined, forever, to God. Because that is the problem. We separated ourselves from God through our actions. He didn't want it to happen.

"The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and their ways are vile; there is no one who does good. God looks down from heaven on all mankind to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. Everyone has turned away, all have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one." Psalm 53:1-3

"Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father.  And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." Matthew 10:29-31

"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." Romans 1:20


The Bible makes sense, others do not. Look into it.

Except for the parts that contradict science.  Also the parts that contradict themselves.  I mean, you can support a wide variety of positions just by cherry picking bible verses.  Even then, the story of the resurrection varies from gospel to gospel.  If you doubt it, look up the Easter challenge.  

Actually, I will save you the effort.  http://www.ffrf.org/legacy/books/lfif/?t=stone

But I'm sure that when it comes down to it, people will argue with as much vehemence that the Qu'ran is true or that the Book of Mormon is true, and the fact of the matter, is that you can't definitively prove it either way.  Or to be put in more scientific terms, you can't disprove the other religions and we can't disprove christianity.  That means that we can't tell whether it is true or just a cult that didn't die due to the conditions of the roman empire at the time.  

Offline dohminator

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #442 on: March 25, 2011, 12:33:28 AM »
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And so I default to my natural position, which is that unless anyone can prove that religious feelings are caused by anything more than society and chemicals in our brain, I can not believe that it is true.  

Yet, and I say this on the assumption you don't have a PhD in Neuroscience, you didn't investigate the matter yourself and just took the word of others as fact.  How shocking that you would accept something without proof!

Quote
I might be exaggerating a little bit but I do think that Jesus would be much more in line with socialistic thinking than with capitalistic thinking.  Taking care of the least of us and the poor and the sick aligns much more with socialism than it does with pure unregulated capitalism.  

I think it goes along with Charity more than either, to be honest.


I do have an M.S. in psychology and do know a bit about the cognitive distortions that are a result of our evolutionary past.  I do know that there are certain chemicals that can cause people to experience very religious experiences while under their influence.  The main ones being, psilocybin and psilocin, lsd, DMT (which you should totally watch the spirit molecule though they get the point wrong) and mescaline.  Why is it that our brains are programmed so that they experience these intense reactions under the influence of a chemical?  If this was a true experience from god, it shouldn't be able to be manufactured in our brain.  Much less the experience of the schizophrenic, who hears the voice of god.  Our brains can be mumped with in too many ways to trust a purely emotional reaction and belief without proof.  

We can believe in all kinds of mumped up crap if we don't follow that belief with proof for its existence.  I could believe in stupid things like astrology or homeopathy, but I know that there is no rational proof for those things, and so I don't waste time with them.  There are all kinds of things you discount in your daily life as lacking proof, yet you accept Christianity on faith alone.  For what reason? you were raised that way, you rationalize it, you have a feeling?  All I ask is that one of you rough ridin' prove it without resorting to a work written by men 2000 years ago.  If you can prove it, I will fall down on my knees and beg forgiveness from the one true God.  

Edit:  and also, the beauty about science is that you don't have to have a Ph.D. to study it or to understand it.  You can investigate any claims made by a scientist on your own.  All you need is a bit of effort and a bit of time.  And when you get done, you may wish that you had the Ph.D. to go along with it.  

Edit 2:  Yes,  a scientist wishes others to know about their knowledge and you can read about science through non-technical sources.  However, science makes no claims to special knowledge or special understanding of the true meaning of things.  Any claim that a scientist makes must be backed up by evidence, and all that evidence is available for people to critique whether they are scientists or not.  And trust me, scientists get off on proving others wrong because it gives them recognition.  If someone comes up with evidence that disproves a current theory and supports a new theory, then that person will become very well known within that field.  The reason that we know of Darwin so well is that he pushed a theory that has yet to be disproven despite all the best attempts to do so.   

And too, what it comes down to is that things need to be testable, we can't test for God.  In fact, if you tried to pin people down on ways to test for the existence of God you will get a great variety of reasons why they can't, or why those particular tests failed. 
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 01:20:48 AM by dohminator »

Offline pike

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #443 on: March 25, 2011, 12:36:55 AM »
Whew, dohminator moppin' 'em up.

Offline dohminator

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #444 on: March 25, 2011, 12:57:34 AM »
To add a bit more to the discussion.  600 years ago, people thought that the Earth was flat and that the sun revolved around the Earth.  The explanation for this was that God did it.  Yet, the more we learned about the world, we found that there were natural forces acting that were not the direct result of God and did not need God's intervention to happen.  As we learned more about the world we discovered that diseases were not the result of God punishing us, but were the result of bacteria and viruses.  We learned that the forces of selection could create a wide diversity in life on this planet.  We learned that we are in fact only a tiny part of this super vast universe that is always changing.  We know now that one day the sun will swallow the earth as it becomes a red giant.  That the universe is expanding and growing instead of staying stagnant.  We learned that there are very weird things that are happening that we can't fully explain yet.  At each step we have gained more knowledge, yet there were forces that said that the next step was unexplainable and that God was the only thing that could explain it.  Yet each time, when people studied and tried to find the truth through rational exploration and experimentation, God has been pushed back.  And we may never know in our lifetime or ever what caused the big bang, yet a I accept that it probably didn't require a god to do it.  

And when it comes down to it, I look up in wonderment at the stars, I think how lucky we are to be here, and I do not feel that my life is in any way cheapened because there probably is no god.  I feel that my life is in fact much more meaningful because of the lack of probability for it.  

Edit:  I'll just put this here for all the conservatives.  http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushvsjesus.htm
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 01:02:35 AM by dohminator »

Offline PoetWarrior

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #445 on: March 25, 2011, 08:16:43 AM »
Science!?

Please tell me why I love?!

Offline PoetWarrior

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #446 on: March 25, 2011, 08:17:51 AM »
...While you're at it, tell me why dohminator does?!

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #447 on: March 25, 2011, 08:33:21 AM »
The reason that we know of Darwin so well is that he pushed a theory that has yet to be disproven despite all the best attempts to do so.   

The reason people still believe in God is that the bible has yet to be disproven despite all the best attempts to do so.

*I believe in evolution, by the way.

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #448 on: March 25, 2011, 08:51:22 AM »
Also, Jesus was a socialist.  Just saying. 

What is your point?

If everyone were like Jesus, the world would be socialist if there were any government at all, and nobody would be hungry or suffer.

Offline dohminator

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Re: Religion,Bible,Church, Etc. Thread
« Reply #449 on: March 25, 2011, 08:54:35 AM »
The reason that we know of Darwin so well is that he pushed a theory that has yet to be disproven despite all the best attempts to do so.   

The reason people still believe in God is that the bible has yet to be disproven despite all the best attempts to do so.

*I believe in evolution, by the way.

How do you suppose that we test the veracity of the bible scientifically? 

And certain aspects of the bible have definitely been disproven.