Mainstream Economics Thread

[sonofdaxjones]

Because if #blueanon had their way (and if say a President Xi piss boy type like Pedo Pete was still in office) . . . it would just be business as usual.

Then when the next "crisis" hits all the usual derps would be talking about how we don't make anything we really need here . . .

[SleepFighter]

Sure, the way to incentivise firms to invest in multi-billion dollar capital projects (multiples of $10B for a 2 nm fab) that will ALSO require the development of hundreds of engineers with skills that simply don't exist in the US right now is to make the industry maximally unstable. Got it.

[DaBigTrain]

I mean DUH! If you weren’t so many skills/steps/whatever behind the dear leaders deep DEEP knowledge of the space, you simply wouldn’t understand.

[sonofdaxjones]

Sure, the way to incentivise firms to invest in multi-billion dollar capital projects (multiples of $10B for a 2 nm fab) that will ALSO require the development of hundreds of engineers with skills that simply don't exist in the US right now is to make the industry maximally unstable. Got it.

LMAO - please point me to where there’s a blockade on engineering prowess to help enable chip making capacity in the US?

Did someone put in an edict that only indigenous engineers can design the chips or the facilities in the US. If so I’ll need a link.

In addition-thanks for pointing out the academic crisis this country is facing/that exists already.


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[sonofdaxjones]

It’s amazing to watch #blueanon/#blueanongE fight this so hard.

‘Merica! - but only when it fits our political agenda. (#blueanon/#blueanongE)


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[SleepFighter]

The US is still world-class in chip design. Design and manufacturing are entiriely different functions. Most US firms long ago offloaded the capital intensive manufacture part to focus on design. That's why most semiconductor companies are fabless. Politician's focus on fabs is a huge problem. Fabs are important, but only a part of the story.

The issue is that 2nm and whatever comes next aren't just planar anymore, they're not even finfet.  They're now gate all around. No one in the US has built a gate all around wafer, and so there is no one here to teach others how to do it. There's only a handful of finfet fabs here. TSMC is currently building a 2nm and below fab in Arizona (thanks in large part to the chips act), but they are relying heavily on TSMC engineers brought over or consulted with from Taiwan.

And if you think that the current administration is doing anytging besides driving a stake into the heart of us university research, I don't know what to tell you.

[wetwillie]

mmmmm wafers

[BIG APPLE CAT]

Sleep fighter you um…must not have much experience interacting with Dax in the pit. Like don’t get me wrong I appreciate your nuance and measured responses but, pearls before swine

[SleepFighter]

Sleep fighter you um…must not have much experience interacting with Dax in the pit. Like don’t get me wrong I appreciate your nuance and measured responses but, pearls before swine

Yeah, I know...

[waks]

Lol, waiting on pins and needles for Dax's response. There isn't a subject matter or industry he isn't an expert on. I'm sure this will be no different.

[sonofdaxjones]

The US is still world-class in chip design. Design and manufacturing are entiriely different functions. Most US firms long ago offloaded the capital intensive manufacture part to focus on design. That's why most semiconductor companies are fabless. Politician's focus on fabs is a huge problem. Fabs are important, but only a part of the story.

The issue is that 2nm and whatever comes next aren't just planar anymore, they're not even finfet.  They're now gate all around. No one in the US has built a gate all around wafer, and so there is no one here to teach others how to do it. There's only a handful of finfet fabs here. TSMC is currently building a 2nm and below fab in Arizona (thanks in large part to the chips act), but they are relying heavily on TSMC engineers brought over or consulted with from Taiwan.

And if you think that the current administration is doing anytging besides driving a stake into the heart of us university research, I don't know what to tell you.

Again - not a single solitary soul is saying that every Chip will be produced in the United States. If they are, please provide a link.

Thanks for affirming there is no moratorium or restriction on foreign based engineering.

Please provide a link that outlines that university research centering around chip technology is being gutted . . . and if so, why can't one of the largest manufacturing sectors in the world, controlled by some of the worlds wealthiest corporations fund and manage their own research and research at the university level?

The combined market cap of NVIDIA and Apple would be the worlds 3rd largest economy.

[SleepFighter]

Yeah, I'm done. I'll just say NVIDIA and Apple are both fabless, and self described smart people might wonder how that fits in to all this, but whatever.

[LickNeckey]

SF thanks for sharing your insights

Very helpful for those of us that don't know everything

[steve dave]

Awesome stuff sleep fighter, thank you


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[Stupid Fitz]

SF thanks for sharing your insights

Very helpful for those of us that don't know everything

 

[sonofdaxjones]

Yeah, I'm done. I'll just say NVIDIA and Apple are both fabless, and self described smart people might wonder how that fits in to all this, but whatever.

  I'm going to go all waks on you and call you a blowhard.


fabless companies don't focus on design? Being able to design chips doesn't involve research?  Apple and NVIDIA don't invest in their manufacturing partners? (I guess all of those recent stories are just lies)

Did the Trump administration gut the research portion of the CHIPS act? If so, please provide a link.

SF . . . I accept your tapout.

[DaBigTrain]

 

[cfbandyman]

Remember when dax complains about blue anon being an expert in everything?

[sonofdaxjones]

Knowing things absolutely enrages #blueanongE . . . and like infants, if you disagree with them, they completely lose their mind.

In this case, all it takes is a modicum of understanding and the ability to read.

Remember kids, this all started because the Intel CEO is highly engaged in supporting our Geo-Strategic adversary and his former company sold sensitive IP to the Chinese Military circumventing US law/trade restrictions and they have summarily been fined $140 million dollars. But because Don Trump is involved - #blueanon/#blueanongE is completely raged out.

To make it even more 

We just went through 4 years of a POTUS who rarely uttered a coherent sentence.  Every time he did speak (or was allowed to speak) the WH had to issue 14 retractions, 8 level sets and 19 clarifications.

Now #blueanon/#blueanongE is dissecting every word, demanding all matter of nerd x 10,000 nuance on technology on top of micro analyzing every facet of the economy when we just went through 4 years of unbelievable gaslighting relative to the state of our nations economy (the gaslighting on the the border security is another story for another time). 

Even more sad - they are completely raged out by what is very good news for our nation and our national well being/national security.   

It's absolute peak level #blueanon/#blueanongE rage and it's fantastic.

[DaBigTrain]

[sonofdaxjones]

DuhBigPsycho - I am interested in your thoughts on this topic..

Remember, you told us, "I'm just here to talk".

[catastrophe]

Remember when dax complains about blue anon being an expert in everything?

When you actually are an expert in literally everything like Dax, it’s frustrating watching everyone else try.

Basically the Arrested Development “but it might work for us” meme.

[sonofdaxjones]

Being able to understand basic concepts, being able to read . . . =  expert on everything (per #bleuanongE)   

How positively provincial and appalachian in mindset (thus - very onbrand)

[DaBigTrain]

 

[sonofdaxjones]

"I'm just here to stalk" . . . DuhBigPsycho aka RageQuitter