DITR

[LickNeckey]

maybe Bill is on to something.  now all you haters say you're sorry

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/24904/the-2010-all-big-12-team-as-recruits

[Rams]

maybe Bill is on to something.  no all you haters say you're sorry

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/24904/the-2010-all-big-12-team-as-recruits

What exactly am I supposed to be taking away from this? 

[WillieWatanabe]

they were mostly all ranked in their respective positions...Not much of that going on here.

[yoman]

Not to mention the Big 12 sucked this year...

[Panjandrum]

maybe Bill is on to something.  no all you haters say you're sorry

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/24904/the-2010-all-big-12-team-as-recruits

What exactly am I supposed to be taking away from this? 

Nothing.  It's complete conjecture.

[LickNeckey]

o.k.   

maybe just not in the Big XII

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/3672/big-east-recruiting-rankings-revisited

or look at the title game from last year where Alabama and Texas combined to start 21 players with 3 stars or fewer

http://blog.al.com/solomon/2010/01/revisiting_alabama_and_texas_r.html

or simply take a minute to think about your favorite Cats of alltime......

Jerome Janet, Mark Dunn, Chris Boggas, Daniel Davis, Peni Holakeituai, Randy Jordan, and Matt Boss are my personal faves

 

[bradleigh]

LOLZ that you posted the big east rankings in response to "the big 12 sucked"

[MeatSauce]

So....what you're saying is "coach em up" happens everywhere else? crap, we're mumped.  Or are you pointing out that Ron Prince's recruit made 1st Team All Espn Blog team? 

[LickNeckey]

 

[Panjandrum]

o.k.   

maybe just not in the Big XII

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/3672/big-east-recruiting-rankings-revisited

or look at the title game from last year where Alabama and Texas combined to start 21 players with 3 stars or fewer

http://blog.al.com/solomon/2010/01/revisiting_alabama_and_texas_r.html

or simply take a minute to think about your favorite Cats of alltime......

Jerome Janet, Mark Dunn, Chris Boggas, Daniel Davis, Peni Holakeituai, Randy Jordan, and Matt Boss are my personal faves

 

Let me get this straight...

You're saying that Bill knows what he's doing because other coaches (as KSU had one player on this list...recruited by Ron Prince as a running back) were able to develop (mostly) ranked three and four star talent?  I want to make that clear.

So, you're using examples from other schools who developed solid talent to back up the fact that LHC Bill Snyder isn't getting a lot of dynamic talent to join the program?  Then you're going to the old, standard shirt-tuck fallback of saying that because some of our four-star players were busts it means all four-star players are busts?

 

[Panjandrum]

And furthermore, I want to make it perfectly clear that I don't think Rivals or Scout ratings are the end-all-be-all.  A three-star guy in a lot of cases, in the right system, can be as good as a four-star guy somewhere else.  And, occasionally, a two-star guy may end up being a bad ass.  There are a lot of football players out there, and there isn't a mechanism like AAU to help the elite play the elite to sort it all out, nor are there national invitational tournaments where the best high school teams can play other elite teams to help display the obvious separation in talent.

But...if you're looking at probability, teams that recruit consistent high 3-star/4-star talent will win more games, in the long run, than teams that do not.

There are some very nice looking players in this class.  Daniel Sams is fantastic, but he was offered as an athlete by Oklahoma and Miami.  So, there's no surprise there.  Hunter Davis looks nice, but he was offered by Tech and A&M.  I love the dynamic athleticism of Angelo Pease, but that was always known when he was a prep in Georgia; no one really cared about him because he was a qualifying risk, which is the same issue Meshak Williams had.

However, overall, this is not a killer class.  It may be come decent if they get a really nice haul this weekend with Seau, McReynolds, and Moore, but again, all of those guys are RANKED players from populated areas where they've been tested by tough competition.

[LickNeckey]

No.  I am saying that traditionally K-State has had more success with our lower ranked recruits (sproles, Newman, lilja, leckey, Roberson, Nelson, McGraw, simeneou, chapman, bezel, etc.) while every single 5 star has been a bust.  Currently Zimmerman and walker seem to be outplaying there hs rankings and there higher ranked counterparts.

Does that mean I do not want 5 stars. No.  Just that we often get way to excited about the opinions of gates and others who are often wrong.  

The links I posted were to illustrate that many other programs and conferences have ditr's that outplayed their higher ranked counterparts.

[Panjandrum]

No.  I am saying that traditionally K-State has had more success with our lower ranked recruits (sproles, Newman, lilja, leckey, Roberson, Nelson, McGraw, simeneou, chapman, bezel, etc.) while every single 5 star has been a bust.  Currently Zimmerman and walker seem to be outplaying there hs rankings and there higher ranked counterparts.

Does that mean I do not want 5 stars. No.  Just that we often get way to excited about the opinions of gates and others who are often wrong.  

The links I posted were to illustrate that many other programs and conferences have ditr's that outplayed their higher ranked counterparts.

Rankings are generally validated by the number of BCS offers a kid has.  There are some outliers, but by and large, there is a strong correlation between a strong offer sheet and a high ranking.

Almost all of the players in your list were from Kansas, and it's not surprising because a lot of "big" programs used to shy away from Kansas, especially Western Kansas, because there were always concerns about the level of competition.  A lot of those players mentioned were dominant, but they dominated a bunch of really shitty players from nowhere towns, so no one really took them seriously.

I always laugh at people who think Newman and Nelson were just complete diamonds in the rough.  Both of these kids were track stars.  In Newman's case, he was one of the best track athletes in the NCAA.  Nelson won how many medals back in high school for track?  They had all of the athleticism necessary to excel in a BCS conference, but no one was going to take a chance on a kid like that unless they walked on and proved themselves first (Nelson was a preferred walk-on).  Nelson was also getting late recruiting interest from Nebraska, so it's not like he was a complete unknown.

Roberson was one of the best QB recruits in the country.  Take him off of your list.  Prior to Freeman, he was the most highly ranked QB recruit we've had since Beasley signed back in, what, 1996?

The fact that these kids weren't ranked was more of an indictment of Rivals back in the day because they didn't have the resources to go out and scout places like Smith Center.  Nowadays, they comb a little bit better, and these kids aren't so far off of the radar.

[wabash909]

o.k.   

maybe just not in the Big XII

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/3672/big-east-recruiting-rankings-revisited

or look at the title game from last year where Alabama and Texas combined to start 21 players with 3 stars or fewer

http://blog.al.com/solomon/2010/01/revisiting_alabama_and_texas_r.html

or simply take a minute to think about your favorite Cats of alltime......

Jerome Janet, Mark Dunn, Chris Boggas, Daniel Davis, Peni Holakeituai, Randy Jordan, and Matt Boss are my personal faves

 

Now go look at the NFL draft's first two rounds and see that 75% were a 4 star or higher.

[jtksu]

Newman was not one of the NCAA's premier track athletes when we recruited him and Nelson won a ton of races for a 2A school.  Now take a look at the first 2 rounds of the draft and notice that 75% of the players are from bigtime programs.  The kind of programs that get kids sudden ratings boosts from Rivals.

[wabash909]

Newman was not one of the NCAA's premier track athletes when we recruited him and Nelson won a ton of races for a 2A school.  Now take a look at the first 2 rounds of the draft and notice that 75% of the players are from bigtime programs.  The kind of programs that get kids sudden ratings boosts from Rivals.

Sorry jt, not following.

[i poo crabs]

No.  I am saying that traditionally K-State has had more success with our lower ranked recruits (sproles, Newman, lilja, leckey, Roberson, Nelson, McGraw, simeneou, chapman, bezel, etc.) while every single 5 star has been a bust.  Currently Zimmerman and walker seem to be outplaying there hs rankings and there higher ranked counterparts.

Does that mean I do not want 5 stars. No.  Just that we often get way to excited about the opinions of gates and others who are often wrong.  

The links I posted were to illustrate that many other programs and conferences have ditr's that outplayed their higher ranked counterparts.

Excellent analysis
Rankings are generally validated by the number of BCS offers a kid has.  There are some outliers, but by and large, there is a strong correlation between a strong offer sheet and a high ranking.

Almost all of the players in your list were from Kansas, and it's not surprising because a lot of "big" programs used to shy away from Kansas, especially Western Kansas, because there were always concerns about the level of competition.  A lot of those players mentioned were dominant, but they dominated a bunch of really cacty players from nowhere towns, so no one really took them seriously.

I always laugh at people who think Newman and Nelson were just complete diamonds in the rough.  Both of these kids were track stars.  In Newman's case, he was one of the best track athletes in the NCAA.  Nelson won how many medals back in high school for track?  They had all of the athleticism necessary to excel in a BCS conference, but no one was going to take a chance on a kid like that unless they walked on and proved themselves first (Nelson was a preferred walk-on).  Nelson was also getting late recruiting interest from Nebraska, so it's not like he was a complete unknown.

Roberson was one of the best QB recruits in the country.  Take him off of your list.  Prior to Freeman, he was the most highly ranked QB recruit we've had since Beasley signed back in, what, 1996?

The fact that these kids weren't ranked was more of an indictment of Rivals back in the day because they didn't have the resources to go out and scout places like Smith Center.  Nowadays, they comb a little bit better, and these kids aren't so far off of the radar.

[LickNeckey]

"Excellent analysis
Rankings are generally validated by the number of BCS offers a kid has.  There are some outliers, but by and large, there is a strong correlation between a strong offer sheet and a high ranking.

Almost all of the players in your list were from Kansas, and it's not surprising because a lot of "big" programs used to shy away from Kansas, especially Western Kansas, because there were always concerns about the level of competition.  A lot of those players mentioned were dominant, but they dominated a bunch of really cacty players from nowhere towns, so no one really took them seriously.

I always laugh at people who think Newman and Nelson were just complete diamonds in the rough.  Both of these kids were track stars.  In Newman's case, he was one of the best track athletes in the NCAA.  Nelson won how many medals back in high school for track?  They had all of the athleticism necessary to excel in a BCS conference, but no one was going to take a chance on a kid like that unless they walked on and proved themselves first (Nelson was a preferred walk-on).  Nelson was also getting late recruiting interest from Nebraska, so it's not like he was a complete unknown.

Roberson was one of the best QB recruits in the country.  Take him off of your list.  Prior to Freeman, he was the most highly ranked QB recruit we've had since Beasley signed back in, what, 1996?

The fact that these kids weren't ranked was more of an indictment of Rivals back in the day because they didn't have the resources to go out and scout places like Smith Center.  Nowadays, they comb a little bit better, and these kids aren't so far off of the radar."


I basically agree with everything you have to say.  except...

Newman and Nelson were most definitely DITR but that doesn't mean they were no talent hacks that Bill simply fixed by the "laying of hands".  You simply can't polish a turd (finding DITR is about evaluation not metallurgy), all of the athletes on my list were extremely gifted physically but had been overlooked for a number of reasons (late development, limited hs success individually, slightly undersized, small town, etc.)

Roberson was an excellent get for k-state and his inclusion in my list was a mistake.  However if my memory serves me he was still only a three star (Marc Dunn and Nick Patton were both higher rated qb's)

I don't believe that rivals or anybody else is actually doing a better job in recruiting evaluation of smaller time talent. Zimmerman and B. Wilson are somewhat indicative of this.  Both are kids with nice measurables but were undervalued by the evaluation process. 

[jtksu]

Zimmerman was QB in high school, before we grey shirted him.  Pretty hard to say he was worth more than 2*s.

[LickNeckey]

i understand that he didn't deserve higher than a 2 star as a qb, however if you watched him play it was clear that he was a gifted athlete and could have easily been a three star under that classification

[Dr Rick Daris]

seems to me like you are going to have a decent amount of two and three stars that end up being really good due to the sheer number of kids that end up with a two or three star rating. how does rivals do it? how many kids can be a five star? how many four? how many three? etc...

[Pete]

seems to me like you are going to have a decent amount of two and three stars that end up being really good due to the sheer number of kids that end up with a two or three star rating. how does rivals do it? how many kids can be a five star? how many four? how many three? etc...

Agreed.  It's just the volume of it.  They can't truly evaluate everyone.


That's why I just look at their other offers.

[unleashthemob]

Monte biesel was rated a four star if I remember correctly

[jtksu]

Beisel was a Parade AA.

[Dr Rick Daris]

Monte biesel was rated a four star if I remember correctly

i ate pizza and ice cream last night.