Messages

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The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit / Re: Is it fair for Transgenders to compete in sports as who they think they are? No

« on: March 24, 2022, 12:08:28 PM »

If society suddenly changed definitions to "It's ok for everyone to meet any combination of expectations A/B/C/X/Y/Z" then the concept of gender vanishes.

I think society doing that would be good.

 

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The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit / Re: Is it fair for Transgenders to compete in sports as who they think they are? No

« on: March 24, 2022, 11:55:38 AM »

I don't yet fully accept the whole gender-societal construct thing.  My point is that if accepted, then it would be logical to think that society's historical thoughts on how a person from either sex should act/appear/emote/etc. is what has made some people who don't fit into those expectations wonder/think/earnestly believe they are a distinct gender from their sex as opposed to still being their birth sex while being themselves within it.   

I think so, yes. Society in the USA has very strict definitions of "Men have expectations A/B/C. Women have expectations X/Y/Z". Gender doesn't have a physical definition, though, so if a person thinks "I fit expectations X/Y/Z more than A/B/C" then it's natural for them to identify as a woman regardless of what body parts they have. If society suddenly changed definitions to "It's ok for everyone to meet any combination of expectations A/B/C/X/Y/Z" then the concept of gender vanishes.

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The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit / Re: Is it fair for Transgenders to compete in sports as who they think they are? No

« on: March 24, 2022, 11:39:34 AM »

Curious if folks would find the following proposal palatable:

Proposal Part 1 - Trans kids(<18) are allowed to compete according to their gender identity until they are adults. trans girls play on the girls team. trans boys play on the boys team.
Proposal Part 2 - Professional sports and international competitions(i.e. Olympics) are no longer gender-segregated but are allowed to be instead separated by specific physical characteristics that impact performance. for example, you could require that athletes have testosterone within defined limits or you could create a professional 6-foot-and-under basketball league.  You can use any physical trait you want to separate athletes so long as (a) you can prove that the physical trait actually leads to a performance advantage(i.e. having a penis doesn't disqualify you unless the physical presence of a penis demonstrably makes you run faster or be a better free-throw shooter or something) and (b) you can't market the competition as being gendered(for example, you could have a Low T MMA division and a high T MMA division. if we want, we could even make an 'unnaturally high T' MMA division if we want to watch roided out freaks smack each other around).  this obviously wouldn't be feasible for kids sports because of cost and puberty so it's limited to adults in professional and international competition

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The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit / Re: Is it fair for Transgenders to compete in sports as who they think they are? No

« on: March 24, 2022, 11:25:34 AM »

Transgender people are not mentally ill unlike many of the unfortunate souls downtown and again, there is supporting evidence that shows negative impact on mental health when their gender identity is denied rather than affirmed, which supports their claim that their gender is what they say it is.

Would there be a need or want to be a gender different from one's sex if society had been more accepting that people from either sex can have a wide range of so-called gender traits?

I'm not sure I understand the question.  it feels like you're asking if we would need to adjust our idea of gender if the social construct of gender didn't exist?

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The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit / Re: Is it fair for Transgenders to compete in sports as who they think they are? No

« on: March 24, 2022, 10:50:34 AM »

Also, the current sex-based segregation is sports is already inadequate to ensure 'fairness'.  Take the case of Castor Semenya, who is an intersex woman(she was born with a vagina and internal testes) and is banned from competing in the Olympics in distances from 400m to 1500m. 

Do people care about the lack of fairness for her? She was born with a vagina but had her hopes and dreams stolen from her and is banned from competing against other women.  How can we make competition fair for Castor?  Is that as important to you all as making competition 'fair' for Lia's competitors?

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The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit / Re: Is it fair for Transgenders to compete in sports as who they think they are? No

« on: March 24, 2022, 10:33:00 AM »

sorry what's violence against women have anything to do with anything?

With un-gendering sports, as one person suggested

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The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit / Re: Is it fair for Transgenders to compete in sports as who they think they are? No

« on: March 24, 2022, 10:32:06 AM »

Is entirely switching genders just a creation/result of society being rigid about what men and women should look/act/emote like?

We live in a society.

How I came to accept that trans women are women and trans men are men is that I have talked with/worked with/competed against/roomed with trans people and they told me so.

I know that's not the most satisfying answer, but we treat what people tell us with earnestness in other circumstances. if someone of sound mind that I trust and respect tells me that they believe in God, I believe them even though I have no way to verify the truthfulness of their claim and am not able to understand it myself.

There's also supporting evidence, though not a direct proof, that affirms what trans people are telling us. For instance, there have been studies into what the intervenable factors are when it comes to suicide risk in transgender people. They found that there is a large reduction in suicidal ideation associated with each of the following:
- completing medical transition through hormones and/or surgery
- experiencing lower self-reported transphobia
- increased social/parental support.

In other words, listening to what they are telling us and treating trans women as women and trans men as men makes fewer trans people die by suicide. To me, this all makes for very compelling evidence that gender (a societal construct as you point out) is distinct from sex/genetalia



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The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit / Re: Is it fair for Transgenders to compete in sports as who they think they are? No

« on: March 24, 2022, 10:10:36 AM »

doesn't your logic of "advantages exist all over the place" lead us down a path of getting rid of separating mens and womens leagues altogether?

Possibly, though I don't think so. I need to think about that more. 

Violence against women is very common and might be made worse by un-gendering sports, but that would pretty much be my only concern.

Women already don't make anywhere near as much money from sports as men...WNBA is like the only league that pays an upper middle class salary and women athletes could still earn from endorsements. so I don't think un-gendering would make a huge difference economically for women.

I think the two possible paths my thinking can go down are:

- un-gender sports
- keep sports gendered but allow trans people to compete with others of their gender

The second option is my preference because of the violence against women thing



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The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit / Re: Is it fair for Transgenders to compete in sports as who they think they are? No

« on: March 24, 2022, 09:05:45 AM »

tl;dr - Advocating for banning trans athletes means harming trans people by rejecting their gender identity(i.e. their womanhood in the case of mtf).

people against trans people competing will argue it's really about biological sex, not gender, it's just that we've never had to differentiate that throughout history (right or wrong).

Right, and the counter is that we've been getting it wrong this whole time. which has contributed to the high rate of suicide rate in trans people. That 40-50% of trans people attempt suicide is orders of magnitude more important to me than consideration of physical parity in sporting competitions.

True parity in sports never existed anyway. Phenotypical differences have always been present. Tall people have advantages in basketball but we don't need to ban them. allowing trans people to compete with others of their gender is just expanding the phenotypical diversity to better match our understanding of humanity.

if phenotypical parity is of utmost importance, we should be consistent with that stance: there should be separate basketball competitions at all age groups for every possible combination of height and other important physical attribute (wingspan, ability to palm a basketball). I'll be so proud when my friend goes pro in the version of the NBA for 5'11" males with T-Rex arms who can't palm a basketball or dunk.

Also, phenotype isn't the only source of unfairness. Rich kids have advantages over poor kids in all sports but especially in sports like tennis, motor racing, hockey, and equestrian. What we know from epigenetics is that socioeconomic issues impact phenotype, so economic disparities are physical disparities. Are the people outraged about trans athletes also outraged over economic disparities(which in the US are also racial disparities) and are they working to ensure a level playing field in all sports by addressing those issues? If all kids had equal access to food, housing, healthcare, and education we would have more fair athletic competitions, right?

why does fairness only suddenly matter when it comes to banning trans kids? And why is the perceived physical unfairness of an amateur swim race more important than the unfairness of a society that leads half of trans people to attempt suicide? This is also coming on the heels of banning trans people from bathrooms

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The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit / Re: Is it fair for Transgenders to compete in sports as who they think they are? No

« on: March 23, 2022, 03:47:59 PM »

Here are the elements of the argument for why the effort to ban trans athletes is anti-trans or trans-phobic as I understand things as a straight cis white man:

• Sex and Gender are distinct concepts.  Sex is assigned at birth based on genitalia. Gender is a societal construct of expected physical, psychological, and emotional traits.
• Gender identity is just that, the gender construct that a person identifies with.
• A transgender person is someone who's sex at birth doesn't match with their expression of gender or gender identity
• Denial of gender identity(and other 'identities' like race) causes harm in terms of self-esteem and mental health(stress/anxiety/depression/death by suicide)
• Not allowing trans athletes to compete with others of their gender is denial of gender identity and causes harm.
• All humans have varying levels of physical ability.  Regardless of how you personally define 'gender', this is obviously true even within genders. Giannis Antetokounpmo is a male and a 7 foot freak of nature.  I am a male and I am not a 7 foot freak of nature. It's totally palatable to me that some males have greater physical ability than I do for certain tasks.
• The fact that someone else who belongs to the same gender as you has greater physical ability doesn't give you the right to deny their gender identity and cause them harm.  James Harden can't send Giannis to the WNBA because Giannis is taller and better at Basketball than he is...that's clearly ridiculous.

Putting it all together, the argument goes like this:
Trans women are women. Not allowing women to compete in women's sports denies their gender identity which leads to mental health issues and harm. Consideration for perceived physical disparity of other competitors in an amateur competition like college swimming doesn't justify denial of an entire class of people's gender identity because physical disparity is a feature of all athletic competitions and nobody is entitled to a goddamn medal in the first place. The idea that we need to legislate against trans athletes or else there will be so many people who would willingly subject themselves to the onslaught of hate/violence that trans folks are subjected to in order to just gain an advantage in an amateur swim race is so laughable it can't be taken seriously.

tl;dr - Advocating for banning trans athletes means harming trans people by rejecting their gender identity(i.e. their womanhood in the case of mtf).

I'm sure I said things wrong, though I tried to be diligent.  If someone is able to state this better than me or can point to a reference that does, please jump in.

11

Essentially Flyertalk / Re: Cars.... How far have you went before getting a new one?

« on: March 23, 2022, 01:50:18 PM »

I have a 2015 Mazda 3 with 60,000 miles(I don't drive that much compared to many people) that I bought new and will drive for at least 3 more years. outside of standard oil changes/maintenance i've spent somewhere between $1k-2k on repairs. 

All in, including financing, I probably spent $25,000 on this car in the last 8 years and by the time I move on to the next car the 'monthly' cost will be down around $200/month over the lifetime of the car. Even lower if I sell or trade it in at that time. Before the Mazda, I drove a 1998 Ford Escort for about 9 years.

Next car will probably be a bigger car(i'm tall), but I personally hate the idea of spending a larger chunk of my paycheck on cars. I want my car to be comfortable and reliable, but otherwise view it as a tool or a means to an end

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The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit / Re: I like Pelosi. Not sorry.

« on: March 23, 2022, 12:29:35 PM »

people who just held rallies, or talked about things

Can we pin this to Dax' profile so everyone can see how Dax characterized the KKK and immediately know to ignore everything else he says?

KKK literally lynched thousands of people and here you are whitewashing them saying they aren't 'actual mass murderers'. yikes

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The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit / Re: ted cruz is a sociopath

« on: March 23, 2022, 12:02:12 PM »

yea, it's also testing the waters for 'presidential candidates' and campaign talking points

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The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit / Re: political hobbyist thread

« on: March 23, 2022, 11:22:22 AM »

School board elections are now basically just partisan and it mostly sucks ass.

That's intentional. https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/education/2021/09/03/wisconsin-school-boards-crossfire-parents-aided-gop-groups/5702386001/

I live in WI. the stuff the Bradley Foundation(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Foundation) pilots here gets piped straight into the GOP and exported around the country:
https://projects.jsonline.com/news/2017/5/5/hacked-records-show-bradley-foundation-taking-wisconsin-model-national.html

They are basically the actual version of the boogieman that most liberals think the Koch Brothers are and have been focusing on schools for a long time.

List of what they've focused on recently-ish:
political focus on school board elections, privatizing schooling aka school choice/vouchers(https://archive.jsonline.com/newswatch/203790281.html), spreading fear about election fraud to push voter disenfranchisement(https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/08/09/the-big-money-behind-the-big-lie), stripping the office of Governor of power on your way out after you lose an election(https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/05/us/wisconsin-power-republicans.html), anti-vax/anti-mask/anti-social distancing efforts(https://upnorthnewswi.com/2020/07/17/bradley-foundation-bankrolled-groups-tied-to-reopen-movement-to-tune-of-2-million/).

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The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit / Re: I like Pelosi. Not sorry.

« on: March 23, 2022, 11:03:40 AM »

I'm sure Dax will be equally interested about the origins of the “America First” slogan in the US that was made popular, though not originated by, American white nationalist group the KKK in the 1920s, used again in the WWII era by pro-Nazis/anti-Semites like Lindbergh, and revitalized by politician Donald Trump in 2016.

The sad thing about this, is Dax thinks the phrase is just some catchy campaign slogan adopted through the years and now used to turn out the vote as they say.   

Dax of course didn't have the first clue about the origins of the slogan and the controversial and worrisome history of the origins and usage of the phrase.

A phrase derived from movement who prosecuted campaigns of mass murder and who were and are extreme believers in a singular ethnicity in the United States.

https://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=41201.2400

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The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit / Re: The Death of Free Speech: Uber PC'ism-A further look

« on: March 23, 2022, 10:35:12 AM »

I feel compelled to again state that the Federalist Society is not some shady, Q-anon-esque organization.

2022 update:
After their Chairman of Federalism & Separation of Powers for the last 16 years literally organized a conspiracy to overthrow the US Presidential election, a conspiracy which included urging VP Pence to violate the Electoral Count Act and count fake electors, the Federalist Society did not issue any kind of statement and resisted pressure to remove Eastman from his leadership position. Instead, they slow-rolled his departure from that position(which apparently had been planned since late 2020) and allowed him to leave the position on his own time so it wouldn't look like they were caving in to outside pressure and condemning his insurrection/conspiracy.  Again, they didn't come out as 'anti-insurrection' or 'pro-democracy' in response to Eastman's plot because that would have been seen as a failure by their membership. Insurrection/sedition should be one of those non-controversial things that you can speak out against...if you can't speak out against it then that makes you a shady Q-anon-esque org.

Also, the Federalist Society tried to cancel satire at Stanford, which was the exact sort of sad and losery behavior this thread was created to criticize

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The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit / Re: ted cruz is a sociopath

« on: March 23, 2022, 09:25:02 AM »

All the pointless grandstanding is basically a tacit endorsement of the supremely qualified KBJ. Obviously no real issues with the nomination but it's an opportunity for media spotlight so he feels he's gotta say something

18

Essentially Flyertalk / Re: maps and liniguistics, (now my master cool maps thread)

« on: March 22, 2022, 12:43:29 PM »

I didn't realize Indian Americans were the second largest immigrant group in the country after Mexican Americans.  I would have guessed Chinese Americans were the second largest group. It's also interesting that Indian Americans seem to spread out around the country(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Americans) while Chinese Americans are mostly concentrated in California and New York, which probably influences my perception(I travel to NYC and CA way more often than I visit Chicago/DC/Dallas/Houston).

The Freedom Convoy coming down from Alberta in the American west is also interesting.

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Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball / Re: COACH JEROME TANG WELCOME THREAD!!!

« on: March 22, 2022, 11:39:43 AM »

The fundy religion stuff is going to be a home run with a large portion of the fanbase that doesn't go to games or message board.

agreed that the end-times fundie stuff will play well with most of the fan base, hopefully including major boosters who I imagine are the sort of people that eagerly await the next Koch brothers newsletter

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Essentially Flyertalk / Re: ReCATery (aka Sober Cats,800BETSOFF Cats,Like Chocoholics but for BoozeCats,etc)

« on: March 14, 2022, 03:03:27 PM »

Came back to this forum after a long hiatus(since 2012/2013) to celebrate oscar getting forced out. 

looked back at my old posts/post stats and, yikes...

i'm pretty sure I was drunk as a skunk in close to 100% of my past posts and it shows. only <10% of my posts were made between 6am and 5pm(the only hours I would have been sober-ish back then) and ~20% of my posts were made between midnight and 6 am. Many of my posts were just plain incoherent...I even tried to convince folks that a bball player had averaged 1.25 rebounds per possession. It was a real rough time in my life and I handled it terribly.

Anyhow, things are better on this end nowadays, though the pandemic has been tough. I guess I just wanted to offer something of an acknowledgement/apology. Sorry for being a drunk bad person, everyone

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Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball / Re: WE LOVE OUR NEW NON-oscar WEBER COACH!!!

« on: March 14, 2022, 01:59:01 PM »

It will be Tom Crean, and it will be fantastic.

Yea, i'm sure the guy who put up 2 winning conference records in the last 13 seasons and who couldn't figure out how to win games with Anthony Edwards on his roster will do a great job at k-state.

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Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball / Re: oscar's Press Conference

« on: March 14, 2022, 12:59:06 PM »

The program right now is absolutely worse than when oscar took over and I don't know how that is even debatable.

People can debate if oscar was better than Frank or if oscar was a good coach here if they want.  The program, at this point in time, is certainly not as good as it was in 2013 when he took over.  We had a program in 2012 that caused another P5 team to steal our coach and a program in 2022 that caused our coach to be fired.  oscar certainly deserves some credit for winning it in 2013 but he inherited a roster capable of winning a B12 title and this roster is nowhere near that.

If Pack leaves, that means five of the top six in the rotation are will need to be replaced. Eight of the top ten on the current roster will have either no eligibility left or have a free transfer left. Which means other than Nowell and Massoud, everyone has the ability to be replaced. If we do go that 9-21, are we going to be  oscar, or will the narrative be the new coach either missed a bunch of his targets then misevaluated the transfers he did land?

Sounds like you're setting up a narrative not to hold the new coach accountable if he has a bad season.

This whole section talks about how shitty the current roster is which is exactly the point.  lol @ talking about the potential of a 9-21 season with the roster Frank left.

You cut out the point of that post that was the actual point and I have said it more than once, I'll say it one more time.

oscar Weber left K-State worse than he found it. We were a top 15 program when he got here now we're not even top 150.

Everyone happy? We good now?

What rough ridin' difference does it make? I'm still waiting for one of you to say that you're going to hold the next coach to a lower standard because the program is in such a bad place.

If you also include fan apathy, attendance, season ticket sales and current roster talent in your reasons as to why he left it worse then yes. Yes, I will be happy.

Also and this is a completely separate conversation- my expectation for the next coach is to keep all of the good players and make the tournament next year. Should be doable.

I went to almost every KSU home game from 2006-2013 but have been totally apathetic after Currie and Oscar killed my optimism. Seeing Oscar get forced out made me more excited about K-State basketball than I've been in a decade.

Hopefully our next coach can get us out of the first round more than once per decade and elevate our program to compete with the likes of Le Salle, UC Irvine, and the Loyola Ramblers.

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Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball / Re: KSU Cat Michael Beasley to Lakers? (nope phoenix)

« on: January 19, 2017, 12:59:07 PM »

it's been really fun watching Beasley on the Bucks this year.  He seems to be happy in Milwaukee and his attitude seems a lot different(in a good way) since coming back from China.  He's scoring points as always, but now also puts forth effort on defense & rebounding and seems like a good teammate.  Me and the other Bucks bros up here in Wisconsin are happy to have him.

edit:  Jason Kidd has done a good job of player development, but i think the ringer article is wrong to credit him with the improved Beasley.  Beasley was playing at a similar level last year with Houston.

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Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball / Re: 2014 NCAA Tourney games thread

« on: April 05, 2014, 09:55:33 PM »

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Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball / Re: 2014 NCAA Tourney games thread

« on: April 05, 2014, 09:05:42 PM »

The buzz-cuts are lookin good this year!