goemaw.com
TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: michigancat on October 09, 2010, 11:37:57 AM
-
If Snyder wasn't a quitter, we wouldn't have Prince. And if we wouldn't have had Prince, Bill wouldn't have any excuses for putting together a crap team. Goddamit, bill.
-
If Snyder wasn't a quitter, we wouldn't have Prince. And if we wouldn't have had Prince, Bill wouldn't have any excuses for putting together a crap team. Goddamit, bill.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Kansas_State_Wildcats_football_team
-
you are correct. but i prefer the talking point that Prince only got 2.5 years to turn around the Snyder mess so Snyder should only get 2.5 years to turn around the Prince mess. i'm willing to give Snyder another year. after we lose to KU next year at home would be a good time to say good bye to Bill; this time on OUR terms.
-
We play ku in Lawrence again next year...
-
We play ku in Lawrence again next year...
oh yeah. makes the scenario even more likely. now if LHCBS can go on a tirade after that loss alienating big donors and their families ... :driving:
-
At the time, preferred to have Snyder's successor to be chosen by Wefald before he retired because they knew he cared about having a good team. Then, he goes and pulls a gigantic WTF with Prince.
-
Many sources say that OB changed his mind shortly after he said he was retiring and wanted to comeback and Weiser told him "no".
You can put Prince on the shoulders of Wefald and Krause, with a little help from Weiser.
No doubt had he not retired, had he sacked up and understood that Kansas State University Athletics, it's fans and supporters are paying him millions of dollars and his staff hundreds of thousands of dollars . . . and to take a chickenshit approach of "you don't fire family" when it was quite clear than changes needed to be made is all you really need to know. That's the typical bullheaded approach that we see even today. If he man's up, fires Elliot, brings in a good DC and makes them HCIW we are probably in a lot better shape today.
Here's another thing that pisses me off . . . he's now asking for all kinds of things on facilities, that he couldn't be bothered with the first time around, and many of those things were offered to him the first time around, and some of the things he's complaining about now, like the layout of the Vanier complex are exactly the way they are today because he couldn't be bothered with the wholesale improvements and complete gutting and renovation he was offered.
-
Reading some of these threads makes me wonder WTF is wrong with some of you people. I'm certainly no powerespect, but I am honest with myself about what LHC Bill Snyder accomplished as a head coach at KSU, and his talents as a head coach and program builder are UNDENIABLE. I'm guessing most of the posters on this board are so young that they have no clue about what this program was like prior to Bill. He did what no other coach could have, or even wanted to attempt. And now, BECAUSE of what LHC Bill Snyder did, you have some sense of entitlement and a completely unrealsitic expectation for this program at this point in time. I'm guessing Snyder ass raped michigancat's 3 year old son at a football camp. Other than that, the attitude just makes no sense. I'm all about being critical, but you guys go wayyyyy overboard. Fire away.
I'm sure someone will post something critical I said several weeks back or something as justification for God knows what (never ceases to amaze me how some of you try to make/prove a point)...as I said, I'm fine with criticism, but some of this is over the top.
-
That's the kind of kool-aid drinking that has enabled the situation to grow to what it is today.
-
Yes, clearly I am a "kool-aid drinker" for not agreeing that LHC Bill Snyder is the worst thing to ever happen to KSU. For not agreeing that Bill is a POS for allowing Prince to be coach. For not blaming everything that people think is wrong with our program on LHC Bill Snyder. Yeah, guess I'm a kool aid drinker.
Also funny..."enabled the situation to grow to what it is today"....yeah...our situation has grown to a 4-1 record with wins over UCLA and ISU, prior to Bill it took 5 SEASONS to win 4 games. This is a perfect example of the sense of entitlement I mentioned.
-
Nobody said he was the worst thing . . . sadly some situations devolve into not being good things. When a coach is given unlimited power, when a coach who is getting paid millions of dollars by a school won't step up and do the right things insofar as making changes, when a coach is allowed to make decisions that will ultimately hurt the football program because he's been given unlimited/unquestioned power by his facilitators . . . that's a bad thing. Toss in legions of fans who take a "Whatever Bill says or does is fine with me" bunch of lemmings, that only makes it worse.
It's good that fans have a sense of entitlement . . . there was a time when K-State fans didn't care about football at all and it showed. Now K-State fans expect more than the clusterf_ck that was on the field last Thursday night, and no there isn't really anyone on this board who thought or expected K-State to win the game.
-
"there was a time when K-State fans didn't care about football at all and it showed." Honest question: Do you remember that time? Because the ONLY reason we have the expectations that we do is BECAUSE of LHC Bill Snyder....get it? Don't you see the hypocrisy in laying everything you think is wrong with this program at the feet of the man who got us here? Again, I'm not opposed to criticism until it gets out of control.
-
LOL . . . I sure do remember that time . . . and yes . . it is absolutely and perfectly right for fans to have significant expectations when they are making head coaches multi-millionaires, and K-State has made LHC Bill Snyder a multi-millionaire many times over.
If K-State was paying LHC Bill Snyder $300K a year, you might have a point, but K-State (meaning its fans and supporters) are paying LHC Bill Snyder nearly $2 million a year, and they were paying LHC Bill Snyder nearly $2 million a year when he retired the first time . . . on top of million dollar annuities, and letting him keep the proceeds of his camps (using facilities paid for by the friends, boosters and fans of K-State athletics), speaking engagements, and tens of thousands of dollars a year in other perks.
-
I get the "with great compensation comes great expectations", believe me I do. But I would argue that LHC Bill Snyder is the most exploited, underpaid coach in the history of college football. Keep reading: remember when Michael Jordan was paid $32M per season, he was WAYYYY underpaid based on what he meant to the league. They should have paid him $200M. Same with Snyder. I'm guessing that the return on the monies we've paid to LHC Bill Snyder over the years would make Warren Buffett look like an incompetent fool. Would you disagree? I'm happy to pay Bill a handsome annuity for the rest of his days for what he's done for KSU, because trust me, he's more than earned it. Before Bill KSU was headed to Division 2, there was talk of abandoning football....if you are old enough, you remember. We had NO expectations. We thought Snyder was a FOOL to think he could builid a winning program. What do you think our average attendance was? Where was our enrollment? More importantly, what has LHC Bill Snyder's resurrection of our football program meant to our enrollment? You are a smart person, I read (most) of your analytical posts. Can you truly argue this? Even if you think that he's overpaid at THIS POINT IN TIME, can't you at least agree that he's more than earned that opportunity?
-
Sorry, I won't ever buy into the "Snyder as the martyr" routine. Nobody forced him to do what he does, he chooses to do it that way, he asked for and was given unquestioned power the first time around . . . I don't begrudge him the money he's paid either, and I appreciate what he's done. But we are well past the point where he gets to ride a long in his Teflon suit, without question or cause for review of what he's done and what he's doing.
-
I get the "with great compensation comes great expectations", believe me I do. But I would argue that LHC Bill Snyder is the most exploited, underpaid coach in the history of college football. Keep reading: remember when Michael Jordan was paid $32M per season, he was WAYYYY underpaid based on what he meant to the league. They should have paid him $200M. Same with Snyder. I'm guessing that the return on the monies we've paid to LHC Bill Snyder over the years would make Warren Buffett look like an incompetent fool. Would you disagree? I'm happy to pay Bill a handsome annuity for the rest of his days for what he's done for KSU, because trust me, he's more than earned it. Before Bill KSU was headed to Division 2, there was talk of abandoning football....if you are old enough, you remember. We had NO expectations. We thought Snyder was a FOOL to think he could builid a winning program. What do you think our average attendance was? Where was our enrollment? More importantly, what has LHC Bill Snyder's resurrection of our football program meant to our enrollment? You are a smart person, I read (most) of your analytical posts. Can you truly argue this? Even if you think that he's overpaid at THIS POINT IN TIME, can't you at least agree that he's more than earned that opportunity?
So you are saying Bill has more than earned the right to piss away the success that he created? We all appreciate what Bill did for the program, he just can't run it forever. I have no problem with how much he is being paid right now, but he should step aside after this year to allow the program to put together long term solutions for continued success. I'm sure some would love to see him forced out/ fired etc for closure but I for one hope it ends with him realizing it is time to go for good. I can see it getting messy like Bowden at FSU though.
-
So you are saying Bill has more than earned the right to piss away the success that he created? We all appreciate what Bill did for the program, he just can't run it forever. I have no problem with how much he is being paid right now, but he should step aside after this year to allow the program to put together long term solutions for continued success. I'm sure some would love to see him forced out/ fired etc for closure but I for one hope it ends with him realizing it is time to go for good. I can see it getting messy like Bowden at FSU though.
This.
No one is denying what Snyder has done for us. We are all appreciative. But at this rate, we'll be right back to where we started. Even though a ship has always served you well, you can't get emotionally attached when it starts sinking. You still have to abandon it if you want a chance to live.
-
If Snyder wasn't a quitter, we wouldn't have Prince. And if we wouldn't have had Prince, Bill wouldn't have any excuses for putting together a crap team. Goddamit, bill.
If Bill evolved like the rest of the NCAA into a year-round recruiting strategy, we would have had better Bill 'cruits his last two years. If we had better 'cruits those years, we don't suck as much as we did. If we don't suck as bad as we did, Bill doesn't get burnt out and Bill doesn't quit.
So basically if Bill didn't refuse to recruit hard year round like everyone else began doing, none of this would have happened.
-
"No one is denying what Snyder has done for us. We are all appreciative." And we look for any opportunity to ass blast him and make fun of him...that's how we show our appreciation. Thanks Bill, you washed up old piece of non-recruiting, non-coaching shiit. Don't let the door hit ya. Oh, thanks again for making us relevant.....old piece of shiit.
-
Now you're officially a powerespect . . . calling it exactly how it is in regards to recruiting year round and being willing to dismiss under performing coaches is not calling the guy "crap".
No one would be bitching had this coaching staff recruited 1 or 2 serviceable JC LB and 1 serviceable JC dual threat quarterback. Nobody on this board is expecting a Big 12 Championship. I still think there's plenty of opportunity to get bowl eligible, but if the defense continues to perform like they are . . . that has got to be reevaluated at the end the season, and we all saw what happened the last time Bill was getting pressure to make coaching changes.
-
No one would be bitching had this coaching staff recruited 1 or 2 serviceable JC LB and 1 serviceable JC dual threat quarterback. Nobody on this board is expecting a Big 12 Championship. I still think there's plenty of opportunity to get bowl eligible, but if the defense continues to perform like they are . . . that has got to be reevaluated at the end the season, and we all saw what happened the last time Bill was getting pressure to make coaching changes.
So what's the rush? Untangle your panties and let them dry out. Wait until the end of the season and make your case then. Do you know how this season will end? After the LA Laf. game last year, did anyone on this board have a clue how we'd perform against ISU, A&M, CU, KU? Take a look at this recap and watch the handy little video http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=302610264 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=302610264). Look familiar? And what did Wash do next?
Yeah, we have some major issues on Defense. I saw some really ugly stuff from our LB's and safeties after watching my dvr'ed version. Got a major problem at QB. That's been an issue all season. Let's see if they are addressed. If not, then start whining all you want, I won't complain. Hell, I'll even join you.
Oh, and a little more perspective.... Without the resurgence in the early 90's, KSU could likely be playing in a different conference and division. We were in violation of D1 season ticket sales standards (selling too few for several years) in the late 80's. The Big 8 didn't want us. May have even gone the way of WSU and dropped the program all together. You think this board and ksufans.com before it would even exist based on our basketball success from 1989 - 2007? Maybe, but I doubt it. Maybe in some small way, your "sonofdaxjones" online persona is the result of Synder's work.
Just giving you a little static. But seriously, what's the rush at this point?
-
Pretty sure the recession's Snyder's fault. Global warming, too.
-
You think this board and ksufans.com before it would even exist based on our basketball success from 1989 - 2007? Maybe, but I doubt it. Maybe in some small way, your "sonofdaxjones" online persona is the result of Synder's work.
ksufans.com has been absolutely destroyed under Snyder 2.0.
-
But at this rate, we'll be right back to where we started.
What rate is that?
5-7 (2-6)
6-6 (4-4)
4-1 (1-1)
1988 right around the corner. :jerk:
-
No one would be bitching had this coaching staff recruited 1 or 2 serviceable JC LB and 1 serviceable JC dual threat quarterback. Nobody on this board is expecting a Big 12 Championship. I still think there's plenty of opportunity to get bowl eligible, but if the defense continues to perform like they are . . . that has got to be reevaluated at the end the season, and we all saw what happened the last time Bill was getting pressure to make coaching changes.
So what's the rush? Untangle your panties and let them dry out. Wait until the end of the season and make your case then. Do you know how this season will end? After the LA Laf. game last year, did anyone on this board have a clue how we'd perform against ISU, A&M, CU, KU? Take a look at this recap and watch the handy little video http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=302610264 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=302610264). Look familiar? And what did Wash do next?
Yeah, we have some major issues on Defense. I saw some really ugly stuff from our LB's and safeties after watching my dvr'ed version. Got a major problem at QB. That's been an issue all season. Let's see if they are addressed. If not, then start whining all you want, I won't complain. Hell, I'll even join you.
Oh, and a little more perspective.... Without the resurgence in the early 90's, KSU could likely be playing in a different conference and division. We were in violation of D1 season ticket sales standards (selling too few for several years) in the late 80's. The Big 8 didn't want us. May have even gone the way of WSU and dropped the program all together. You think this board and ksufans.com before it would even exist based on our basketball success from 1989 - 2007? Maybe, but I doubt it. Maybe in some small way, your "sonofdaxjones" online persona is the result of Synder's work.
Just giving you a little static. But seriously, what's the rush at this point?
so your point is that ksu sucked so bad at football twenty years ago that it almost completely changed the university for the worse and that we should currently have a wait and see attitude towards the football program and not make a big deal about perceived problems with it? oh. okay then. gotcha. that makes total sense.
:flush:
-
No one would be bitching had this coaching staff recruited 1 or 2 serviceable JC LB and 1 serviceable JC dual threat quarterback. Nobody on this board is expecting a Big 12 Championship. I still think there's plenty of opportunity to get bowl eligible, but if the defense continues to perform like they are . . . that has got to be reevaluated at the end the season, and we all saw what happened the last time Bill was getting pressure to make coaching changes.
So what's the rush? Untangle your panties and let them dry out. Wait until the end of the season and make your case then. Do you know how this season will end? After the LA Laf. game last year, did anyone on this board have a clue how we'd perform against ISU, A&M, CU, KU? Take a look at this recap and watch the handy little video http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=302610264 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=302610264). Look familiar? And what did Wash do next?
Yeah, we have some major issues on Defense. I saw some really ugly stuff from our LB's and safeties after watching my dvr'ed version. Got a major problem at QB. That's been an issue all season. Let's see if they are addressed. If not, then start whining all you want, I won't complain. Hell, I'll even join you.
Oh, and a little more perspective.... Without the resurgence in the early 90's, KSU could likely be playing in a different conference and division. We were in violation of D1 season ticket sales standards (selling too few for several years) in the late 80's. The Big 8 didn't want us. May have even gone the way of WSU and dropped the program all together. You think this board and ksufans.com before it would even exist based on our basketball success from 1989 - 2007? Maybe, but I doubt it. Maybe in some small way, your "sonofdaxjones" online persona is the result of Synder's work.
Just giving you a little static. But seriously, what's the rush at this point?
so your point is that ksu sucked so bad at football twenty years ago that it almost completely changed the university for the worse and that we should currently have a wait and see attitude towards the football program and not make a big deal about perceived problems with it? oh. okay then. gotcha. that makes total sense.
:flush:
Wow you seem awful defensive about this. Have to admit this comes off pretty badly for you.
-
No one would be bitching had this coaching staff recruited 1 or 2 serviceable JC LB and 1 serviceable JC dual threat quarterback. Nobody on this board is expecting a Big 12 Championship. I still think there's plenty of opportunity to get bowl eligible, but if the defense continues to perform like they are . . . that has got to be reevaluated at the end the season, and we all saw what happened the last time Bill was getting pressure to make coaching changes.
So what's the rush? Untangle your panties and let them dry out. Wait until the end of the season and make your case then. Do you know how this season will end? After the LA Laf. game last year, did anyone on this board have a clue how we'd perform against ISU, A&M, CU, KU? Take a look at this recap and watch the handy little video http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=302610264 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=302610264). Look familiar? And what did Wash do next?
Yeah, we have some major issues on Defense. I saw some really ugly stuff from our LB's and safeties after watching my dvr'ed version. Got a major problem at QB. That's been an issue all season. Let's see if they are addressed. If not, then start whining all you want, I won't complain. Hell, I'll even join you.
Oh, and a little more perspective.... Without the resurgence in the early 90's, KSU could likely be playing in a different conference and division. We were in violation of D1 season ticket sales standards (selling too few for several years) in the late 80's. The Big 8 didn't want us. May have even gone the way of WSU and dropped the program all together. You think this board and ksufans.com before it would even exist based on our basketball success from 1989 - 2007? Maybe, but I doubt it. Maybe in some small way, your "sonofdaxjones" online persona is the result of Synder's work.
Just giving you a little static. But seriously, what's the rush at this point?
Good post, and welcome to the board.
No one (no one rational) is suggesting that Snyder doesn't deserve to have a great deal of credit for how we got to our lofty heights as a legitimate candidate for membership of a BCS conference. We are solidly the Mississippi State of the Big 12 thanks in large part to his efforts.
However, to suggest that you can't make evaluations or predictions of where we will end up at this particular point in the season doesn't completely jibe with your original point. You cited ISU, A&M, CU, and KU from last year as an example. I'd say that after this next week, since we will have faced half of those teams, that we'll have a pretty good barometer of where we are, no? I mean, you have sub in the Baylor game for the aTm game, but that's merely another week away past KU.
We didn't wait until the end of the season to fire Ron, was that a mistake? I don't believe it was a mistake.
I get that our last two games are @CU and @UNT, so we should be optimistic about that, but after the Baylor game we are going to get rough ridin' blown out for three weeks in a row....should we judge Bill's team then?
-
Good post, and welcome to the board.
No one (no one rational) is suggesting that Snyder doesn't deserve to have a great deal of credit for how we got to our lofty heights as a legitimate candidate for membership of a BCS conference. We are solidly the Mississippi State of the Big 12 thanks in large part to his efforts.
However, to suggest that you can't make evaluations or predictions of where we will end up at this particular point in the season doesn't completely jibe with your original point. You cited ISU, A&M, CU, and KU from last year as an example. I'd say that after this next week, since we will have faced half of those teams, that we'll have a pretty good barometer of where we are, no? I mean, you have sub in the Baylor game for the aTm game, but that's merely another week away past KU.
We didn't wait until the end of the season to fire Ron, was that a mistake? I don't believe it was a mistake.
I get that our last two games are @CU and @UNT, so we should be optimistic about that, but after the Baylor game we are going to get foooocking blown out for three weeks in a row....should we judge Bill's team then?
I cited those four games not as bellwethers to compare to this year. Different year different teams. Those were performances I was not expecting to see given the start of the season. The point is, one or two performances don't always translate into a trend. Take the Tech game from 2009. What a freaking disaster. We gave up 587 yards against NU Thursday. Any guesses what we gave up last year to Tech? http://espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=292832641 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=292832641), try 739.
Comparing when Prince got canned to any official decision to be made on Snyder's employment is a complete non-starter. Barring some type of scandal, Snyder absolutely deserves to finish out any season he is coaching (see my earlier post). He has earned at least that from the University. What kind of goodwill did Prince earn?
I understand a major attraction to online sports boards is all the conjecture stuff. The whole predictions pissing match, where you earn your community brownie points based on how many predictions you got right and can repost or link to later. Maybe this season will tank for us like KU's did last year. Maybe it won't and we get to a bowl. I don't know. We can talk and debate those kinds of things. But for the people calling for Snyder's head:
1. Take a deep breath.
2. Get some perspective.
3. Set clear expectations (like: field a team and play football in 2009; go to bowl in 2010; go to a bowl and finish over .500 in Big 12 in 2011) etc.
3. Gather a body of work (like a full season or two or three) for evidence.
4. Make your case on your evidence--not on your clairvoyance.
So yeah, we should absolutely judge Bill's team. Judge away. But if you're going to call for a coaching change, then make a case on something more than hot air. (Not making that point about your post, but to the general tone on the board the last couple of days).
-
Everyone, please run your reasons for wanting a coaching change by CatGeek before you post them. He can tell you if they're good or not.
-
LHC Bill Snyder is a legend but he is still just a man.
He's like Ceasar walking around Vanier with an assistant constantly reminding him in his ear "you're only a man"....
I love the guy for nostalgia purposes, but if Kstate football is going to get back to having a team that can hang with the Top 10's...its going to take alot more than Del Miller and Chris Cosh.
-
That’s my biggest issue.
The guy is unquestionably a hall of famer and the run he made during the DOD was incredible for all K-Staters and an amazing accomplishment simply for what it was and where the program had been. I absolutely, 100% appreciate that and have a tremendous amount of respect for all that he has meant to our school.
However, to continually deny the existence of some legitimate problems affecting this program is to impede our future ability for this school to compete at a high level again. We can either heed the warning signs or we can choose not to and allow for them to decay the program because we believe Snyder is entitled to immunity to do whatever he wants no matter what the consequences may be.
Objectively speaking, these problems were responsible for the demise of K-State football and continue to be at the root of what are holding us back:
- First and foremost, for the winningest head coach in school program, a man that was the heart and soul of the program, one that he built with his bare hands from the ground up and presided over for a decade and half, to not have an orchestrated succession plan in place is completely inexcusable. Then to compound the problem, not only did he not have a succession plan, he then acted as a non-participant bystander as the buffoons in Anderson proceeded to make one of the worst hires in school history to assume leadership of the football program which prolonged the rebuilding process another 3 years.
- Second, coaching staff retention was a major factor the first go around and continues to be so today. Whether it is an unwillingness to reward his top assistants financially, a perceived lack of appreciation, or an intolerable work environment, the continual revolving door amongst our top level of the coaching staff is a debilitating problem. Allowing this program to be coached by a bunch of unwanted retreads is what prompted Snyder’s retirement the first time around. Assembling the same staff outside of Koenning and Ludwig and then allowing both of those two to abandon the staff in a year’s time is absurd.
- Third, recruiting goes hand in hand with the coaching turnover and coaching staff in general. It killed our program following the Big XII Title. The fact that we recruited so poorly in the years leading to the Big XII Title is the primary reason we finished dead in the conference in the years following.
- Fourth, facilities continue to play a major role and during the early 2000’s teams like Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Missouri, KU all programs we dominated, made major commitments to upgrading their facilities to improve their competitive ability in the league. We did nothing, we felt the repercussions, and now we’re desperately playing catch up.
- Finally, we have to, as a fan base, get beyond this belief that Snyder is the only head coach capable of winning at K-State. We also need to eradicate this deep seated powerespect dogma that “anything is ok” because we used to really suck for a long period of time and anything is better. It’s a loser’s mentality and one that will perpetuate mediocrity forever as long at it exists.
In conclusion, I strongly dislike Chris Cosh.
-
Everyone, please run your reasons for wanting a coaching change by CatGeek before you post them. He can tell you if they're good or not.
man, that's embarrassing for you. :lol:
-
I don't know how many times LHC Bill Snyder needs to repeat his "I'm here to calm the waters" line before people realize that our AD should be searching for a new coach right now.
We don't need an HCIW. We need an HC. Now. Snyder has said it over and over. Currie needs to find one before Snyder gets fed up with the feet dragging and quits again.
Everyone is getting their panties in a bunch because they think Snyder should be finding the HCIW. That's not his job. That's not what he is good at. He doesn't want to do it. He doesn't want to recruit and he doesn't want to coach. Why don't people believe him?
This is not a Bobby Bowden situation.
HIRE JIM LEAVITT NOW AND LET HIM START RECRUITING HIS STAFF FOR NEXT YEAR. THIS SHOULD BE BOB HUGGINS II.
IT CAN'T BE MORE OBVIOUS.
-
I don't know how many times LHC Bill Snyder needs to repeat his "I'm here to calm the waters" line before people realize that our AD should be searching for a new coach right now.
We don't need an HCIW. We need an HC. Now. Snyder has said it over and over. Currie needs to find one before Snyder gets fed up with the feet dragging and quits again.
Everyone is getting their panties in a bunch because they think Snyder should be finding the HCIW. That's not his job. That's not what he is good at. He doesn't want to do it. He doesn't want to recruit and he doesn't want to coach. Why don't people believe him?
This is not a Bobby Bowden situation.
HIRE JIM LEAVITT NOW AND LET HIM START RECRUITING HIS STAFF FOR NEXT YEAR. THIS SHOULD BE BOB HUGGINS II.
IT CAN'T BE MORE OBVIOUS.
NO rough ridin' JIM LEAVITT!
DAMMIT!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
-
I don't want leavitt either.
-
You can break down the KSU football fan base into a few subgroups based on who their choice would be for the next head coach:
Want to be entertained. Live for pak'n and telling stories about pak'n. Have already assembled their Jack Sparrow costume and are just waiting: Mike Leach
Extremely vain. Want to hang out with the pretty people. Read People magazine and watch Jersey Shore: Brent Venables
Delusional. Spend most of their time working on get rich quick schemes. Will not stop talking about the Brown brothers: Gary Patterson or Bob Stoops
Old. Had season tickets since the 70's. Still bitter that they fired Jim Dickey: Dana Dimel
Want to win. Highly successful and driven: Jim Leavitt
-
Good thread with some good discussion on both sides. I have to agree w/ CatGeek that we should wait for a few more games to get a sense of where we are. We all knew we weren't a great team anyhow this year, and I think it was impressive that we were able to go 4-0. Now obviously the Nub game was simply a terrible performance all-around, no doubt. Some of the reasons given for that performance are definitely valid (lack of talent influx, bad coaching, poor adjustments, etc.). However, I think if we get to 7 wins this year, (either through a 6-6 season, and a bowl win, or a 7-5 season and a bowl loss), that is acceptable improvement. If that occurs, forcing Snyd's out shouldn't be considered this year.
One of the flags flying high on the anti-Snyd's bandwagon is inability to recruit talent to key positions (LB, QB in particular). I can agree to some extent, but I believe this has been taken too far based on the evidence so far. This staff's first class was a rag-tag class because of the hand they were dealt. Snyd's readily admitted that they had to scramble to find kids in a short amount of time after Prince's firing. Add to this that Prince burned a lot of the bridges that Snyd's had built and the roster was full of Jucos and sub-par HS talent already, and I don't think you can judge the 2009 recruiting class too harshly. Yeah, it wasn't very good, but look at the circumstances. Last year we got some good Juco talent as always, and a few good HS kids, and some "meh". Not getting one or 2 Juco LBs or a great HS or Juco dual-threat is a valid complaint. Still, in overall talent it was an improvement -- plus, it wasn't a very big class.
Now this year we seem to be bringing in decent talent at some key positions. Again, a Juco LB or 2 would be nice, but hey it's still early, we have AB, plus we have several young *** HS LBs on the roster. And we have 2 dual threat QBs committed including the top-ranked Juco duelie -- plus they're both black. Isn't that what you naysayers are looking for? The :runaway: attitude towards the recruiting is some weak sauce IMO.
So I'm saying that if we get to a bowl this year, I'd like to see what Snyd's could do next year, and then make a judgment. Now, if this season ends up imploding and we finish 5-7 or worse, then it would be hard to argue against those who'd want to see him go. Personally, I'd be OK with at least one more year in this scenario IF he was willing to step up and fire one or both coordinators and get someone with some good creds. into the program (I know that's a big "if").
- First and foremost, for the winningest head coach in school program, a man that was the heart and soul of the program, one that he built with his bare hands from the ground up and presided over for a decade and half, to not have an orchestrated succession plan in place is completely inexcusable.
I completely agree with this (I get the reasoning when he retired, although I don't necessarily agree with it -- but to step away, watch what happened, and then come back and still not have a succession plan... crazy). This is probably my biggest disappointment in Snyd's so far (which I suppose is tied directly to our Coordinators).
- Second, coaching staff retention was a major factor the first go around and continues to be so today. Whether it is an unwillingness to reward his top assistants financially, a perceived lack of appreciation, or an intolerable work environment, the continual revolving door amongst our top level of the coaching staff is a debilitating problem. Allowing this program to be coached by a bunch of unwanted retreads is what prompted Snyder’s retirement the first time around. Assembling the same staff outside of Koenning and Ludwig and then allowing both of those two to abandon the staff in a year’s time is absurd.
Have to agree. Like I said above, I don't think we need to call for his resignation because of this yet, but it is definitely concerning.
- Finally, we have to, as a fan base, get beyond this belief that Snyder is the only head coach capable of winning at K-State. We also need to eradicate this deep seated powerespect dogma that “anything is ok” because we used to really suck for a long period of time and anything is better. It’s a loser’s mentality and one that will perpetuate mediocrity forever as long at it exists.
Agreed, BUT along with that I think we have to be especially careful who we hire so we don't end up w/ Prince 2.0, and go in with our eyes open to the fact that when we make a hire from outside the program, there will likely be some rather severe growing pains. This is why I'm particularly disappointed in Snyd's not bringing in a top-tier assistant or 2 that fit his system, that would be viable HCIW. Would make the transition a whole lot easier and less dangerous. But, doesn't look like that will happen. :frown:
In conclusion, I still disagree with Rusty, although I can respect most of his opinions, and if OK_Cat doesn't start taking his Zoloft, I may finish him myself. :cheers:
-
I will literally rape your mother. not joking.
-
and if OK_Cat doesn't start taking his Zoloft, I may finish him myself. :cheers:
pftt...*
* That's all i read of your post, fwiw.
-
Posted on: Today at 12:00:37 PM
Posted on: Today at 12:02:03 PM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ksufans.com%2Fforums%2FSmileys%2Fksufans%2Fbaityes.gif&hash=359deae9b9b5ddcb17af351f968b2f4109d8d5a9) :lol:
-
That’s my biggest issue.
The guy is unquestionably a hall of famer and the run he made during the DOD was incredible for all K-Staters and an amazing accomplishment simply for what it was and where the program had been. I absolutely, 100% appreciate that and have a tremendous amount of respect for all that he has meant to our school.
However, to continually deny the existence of some legitimate problems affecting this program is to impede our future ability for this school to compete at a high level again. We can either heed the warning signs or we can choose not to and allow for them to decay the program because we believe Snyder is entitled to immunity to do whatever he wants no matter what the consequences may be.
Objectively speaking, these problems were responsible for the demise of K-State football and continue to be at the root of what are holding us back:
- First and foremost, for the winningest head coach in school program, a man that was the heart and soul of the program, one that he built with his bare hands from the ground up and presided over for a decade and half, to not have an orchestrated succession plan in place is completely inexcusable. Then to compound the problem, not only did he not have a succession plan, he then acted as a non-participant bystander as the buffoons in Anderson proceeded to make one of the worst hires in school history to assume leadership of the football program which prolonged the rebuilding process another 3 years.
- Second, coaching staff retention was a major factor the first go around and continues to be so today. Whether it is an unwillingness to reward his top assistants financially, a perceived lack of appreciation, or an intolerable work environment, the continual revolving door amongst our top level of the coaching staff is a debilitating problem. Allowing this program to be coached by a bunch of unwanted retreads is what prompted Snyder’s retirement the first time around. Assembling the same staff outside of Koenning and Ludwig and then allowing both of those two to abandon the staff in a year’s time is absurd.
- Third, recruiting goes hand in hand with the coaching turnover and coaching staff in general. It killed our program following the Big XII Title. The fact that we recruited so poorly in the years leading to the Big XII Title is the primary reason we finished dead in the conference in the years following.
- Fourth, facilities continue to play a major role and during the early 2000’s teams like Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Missouri, KU all programs we dominated, made major commitments to upgrading their facilities to improve their competitive ability in the league. We did nothing, we felt the repercussions, and now we’re desperately playing catch up.
- Finally, we have to, as a fan base, get beyond this belief that Snyder is the only head coach capable of winning at K-State. We also need to eradicate this deep seated powerespect dogma that “anything is ok” because we used to really suck for a long period of time and anything is better. It’s a loser’s mentality and one that will perpetuate mediocrity forever as long at it exists.
In conclusion, I strongly dislike Chris Cosh.
Good post. I don't disagree with any of this. Although I will pick at one nit though, for clarity sake.
- Finally, we have to, as a fan base, get beyond this belief that Snyder is the only head coach capable of winning at K-State. We also need to eradicate this deep seated powerespect dogma that “anything is ok” because we used to really suck for a long period of time and anything is better. It’s a loser’s mentality and one that will perpetuate mediocrity forever as long at it exists.
Not denying this attitude exists out there, but a more prominent attitude exists by evidenced by the Prince dismissal. If most backers of KSU football really believe as you describe, Prince could still be here today. 'Hey it's not as bad as the 1980s, give him another year or two.' Prince was reluctantly let go by Krause/Wefald because they faced a mutiny of backers who were demanding much more. That's a good thing, I agree, standards should be very high. But let's not confuse deference for Snyder as an "anything is ok", perpetuate mediocrity attitude.
-
Old. Had season tickets since the 70's. Still bitter that they fired Jim Dickey: Dana Dimel
Want to win. Highly successful and driven: Jim Leavitt
No one wants Dana Dimel dude, as a matter of fact old tards want Leavitt and you know that its precisely why you made up that Dimel crap. Old tards and you think its okay for coaches to slap, choke out players and then threaten their family, are also okay with doing no better than 4th in the 8 team shitty Big East.
-
choke out players
:love:
-
choke out players
:love:
Of course, WTF was I thinking, he'd be elite to pak with. He isn't doing crap, let's find him and invite him to Boulder or Kansas Day Pak.
-
Old tards and you think its okay for coaches to slap, choke out players and then threaten their family, are also okay with doing no better than 4th in the 8 team shitty Big East.
We don't have a candidate that hasn't done similar or worse things.
Except for maybe Dimel.
Are you hoping to steal Gill?
-
Old tards and you think its okay for coaches to slap, choke out players and then threaten their family, are also okay with doing no better than 4th in the 8 team shitty Big East.
We don't have a candidate that hasn't done similar or worse things.
Except for maybe Dimel.
Are you hoping to steal Gill?
We're only required to hire guys that have been recently fired or dudes with issues? Forgive me for not feeling so inferior.
Why would you ask me about Gill?
-
I don't know how many times LHC Bill Snyder needs to repeat his "I'm here to calm the waters" line before people realize that our AD should be searching for a new coach right now.
We don't need an HCIW. We need an HC. Now. Snyder has said it over and over. Currie needs to find one before Snyder gets fed up with the feet dragging and quits again.
Everyone is getting their panties in a bunch because they think Snyder should be finding the HCIW. That's not his job. That's not what he is good at. He doesn't want to do it. He doesn't want to recruit and he doesn't want to coach. Why don't people believe him?
This is not a Bobby Bowden situation.
FMP
I actually had a point to make, but it was obviously lost when I mentioned Leavitt.