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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on March 10, 2017, 10:29:35 PM
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6nDmwLV4AA59Xn.png:large)
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eff Kam Stokes.
Nothing more to add.
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Cats led 39-27 with 13 and half minutes left. Man.
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#bruceketball
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eff Kam Stokes.
Nothing more to add.
say what you want about kam, but we hit a couple more of those wide opens 3s in the first half and aren't faced with having to make the sort of do or die play we've shown we can't make all season. huggins went to the 1-3-1 and we had no answer. winning teams make plays and mediocre teams do what we do.
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That you cannot with 10 seconds left draw up a simple play to get the ball inside to DJamer for a chance at a high percentage bucket and/or a foul is fireable in and of itself.
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That you cannot with 10 seconds left draw up a simple play to get the ball inside to DJamer for a chance at a high percentage bucket and/or a foul is fireable in and of itself.
DJamer and Dean were options on play. Kam picked up dribble for no reason. Biggest mistake was not having ball on Wes hands
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That you cannot with 10 seconds left draw up a simple play to get the ball inside to DJamer for a chance at a high percentage bucket and/or a foul is fireable in and of itself.
DJamer and Dean were options on play. Kam picked up dribble for no reason. Biggest mistake was not having ball on Wes hands
Dean did not look like he was a real option. He was setting a high screen waiting for Kam to reappear from the black hole he wondered into. The fact that oscar didn't get the ball into Wes's hands with an option to go to DJamer if it was open was classic oscar. Just terrible setup and execution. Looked like they had maybe run that play once or twice at the end of practice.
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It was a man play (Wade pick and pop) vs a zone defense. Huggs just outsmarted oscar. This isn't hard.
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True but Wade just rough ridin' stood there
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Kam didn't recognize it was a zone. Obviously Dean isn't gonna be very open.
I'm guessing Wes realizes it was zone, scraps play, drives and tries to do something.
Picking up your dribble and panicking with 5 sec is worst case
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Kam didn't recognize it was a zone. Obviously Dean isn't gonna be very open.
I'm guessing Wes realizes it was zone, scraps play, drives and tries to do something.
Picking up your dribble and panicking with 5 sec is worst case
How can not recognize what you've played against the last 10 min? oscar doesn't teach enough during practice and tries to 'coach' too much during the game.
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Cam sucked it up. What else is new
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Posse' s going to die on this dumb hill. Cam wasn't even supposed to get the ball, it isn't his job to create for everyone else, why would he be expected to do it then?
That inbounds pass should have been a skip pass to Barry on the other side of the court but I think Wes expected to get the ball back.
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lol a pick and pop with two underclassmen.
I mean maybe it's the same as what Wade had with his final shot @KU, but this doesn't seem like he is ready for a pick, let alone a pop. I'm sure it doesn't help when Stokes ignores the play.
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Wes hasn't made a play in a close game all year, usually results in a turnover too. No problem with Kam being the guy, just he didn't do anything better.
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Wes hasn't made a play in a close game all year, usually results in a turnover too. No problem with Kam being the guy, just he didn't do anything better.
Kam is the most arrogant with the ball on our whole team. oscar should know this but it's blatantly obvious he has no clue.
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lol a pick and pop with two underclassmen.
I mean maybe it's the same as what Wade had with his final shot @KU, but this doesn't seem like he is ready for a pick, let alone a pop. I'm sure it doesn't help when Stokes ignores the play.
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Nice screen shot. I don't know what Kam was thinking, and I'm not sure he did either but I'm going to try.
So if he beats the head of that zone on that dribble he's taking it forces the left wing on the zone to either pick him up or let him go to Adrian. If the wing picks up the dribble it frees the offensive wing for a shot, Barry in this case.
If this was the play oscar drew up I'm actually okay with it because like I said I think the ball was supposed to go back to Wes. Like him or don't but Wes is much more equipped to break down a zone with a dribble. This would have had Dean screening the head of the zone and Kam and Barry on the wings, the exact set up you'd want.
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I am going to rough ridin' lose it
https://twitter.com/kellisrobinett/status/840428563396468736
https://twitter.com/kencorbitt/status/840427217209458688
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The last play was stupid, but the last ten minutes were way worse. Typical oscar Weber team in that we stopped being aggressive on offense as the game got tight. WV is guarding with four guys above the free throw line, and even when we get penetration we don't attack but instead retreat to the perimeter. I figured we were screwed when we starting running shot clock and settling for desperation jumpers at end of shot clock. Some of that is having young guards but a big part of that is on Weber.
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I'd also add that all the motion and freeing action seems to go to the left side (bench side). DJamer slides down. Wade is still there at the top of the key in case the zone (or man?) sucks down to DJamer. Wes is still there at the wing for a 3 (as MiR describes). It just seems like Kam went ham and went right and everyone was like WTF are you doing. Seemed like Barry was a there on the weak side to anchor just in case everyone went to Wes/DJamer/Kam.
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The last play was stupid, but the last ten minutes were way worse. Typical oscar Weber team in that we stopped being aggressive on offense as the game got tight. WV is guarding with four guys above the free throw line, and even when we get penetration we don't attack but instead retreat to the perimeter. I figured we were screwed when we starting running shot clock and settling for desperation jumpers at end of shot clock. Some of that is having young guards but a big part of that is on Weber.
I agree with this in a larger perspective of the second half. You look at the fouls and WV was much more aggressive in 2nd. We were in the bonus early in the first and WV returned the favor in the 2nd.
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In the screen shot, they are clearly in zone. Pass the ball to Barry. After you dribble to the wing, drive to the hole and try to do something. Just don't pick the ball up and expect Dean to be open for a 3.
I totally agree. Wes has done nothing late in games but he should have had ball. Huggy team is over aggressive and fouls a ton. Wes driving has way better shot of drawing a foul
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We didn't lose the game because of the last play.
WV scored 13 pts off of our 6 TOs in 2nd half. Kam had 3 of them. He also was inbounded the ball and got a 5 count. Not his TO, but a timeout does save a TO
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I am going to rough ridin' lose it
https://twitter.com/kellisrobinett/status/840428563396468736
https://twitter.com/kencorbitt/status/840427217209458688
not having enough time to prepare for zone d is a classic case of the #schedulemakers. not quite as bad as when the maui trip cost us all of december 2014, but still pretty unfair imho.
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did a pretty good job on the 3s, it looks like.
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5 Kam TOs in our first 40 Poss.And He probably sat for 6-7 of those Poss. So he was a pace for almost 15 TOs per 100 rate in this game.
:barf:
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No doubt he is bad, but you can't put this game on him
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Wes hasn't made a play in a close game all year, usually results in a turnover too. No problem with Kam being the guy, just he didn't do anything better.
Who else has? Kind of weird to single him out in this situation.
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No doubt he is bad, but you can't put this game on him
I can and I will. I can live with his subpar 40% eFG and 2-4 FT shooting. His 5 TOs were not because of WV pressure or great plays. They are from lazy passes or passes thrown into the 5th row. He's done it all year. Even 24 hours ago,he had a WTF TO in the backcourt right after Baylor cut it to 62-55.
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The last play was stupid, but the last ten minutes were way worse. Typical oscar Weber team in that we stopped being aggressive on offense as the game got tight. WV is guarding with four guys above the free throw line, and even when we get penetration we don't attack but instead retreat to the perimeter. I figured we were screwed when we starting running shot clock and settling for desperation jumpers at end of shot clock. Some of that is having young guards but a big part of that is on Weber.
Yeah. There were 4 on 3's CONSTANTLY against that zone and everyone holds the ball or dribbles away from the basket. Typical Bruceketball.
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No doubt he is bad, but you can't put this game on him
I can and I will. I can live with his subpar 40% eFG and 2-4 FT shooting. His 5 TOs were not because of WV pressure or great plays. They are from lazy passes or passes thrown into the 5th row. He's done it all year. Even 24 hours ago,he had a WTF TO in the backcourt right after Baylor cut it to 62-55.
You go from the last few games to all year? Maybe quit piggy backing off of posters thoughts all year long?
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I am going to rough ridin' lose it
https://twitter.com/kellisrobinett/status/840428563396468736
https://twitter.com/kencorbitt/status/840427217209458688
He should champaign. Why should he blame the lost on the players. We did not down enough open threes 5-21 for the game.
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Piggyback off of who??
Kam hasn't been good for a while but I've giving him praise for his 82% FT in B12 play.
First 21 games, 40% 3pt and 2.2 TOs
Last 12 , 29% 3pt and 3.8 TOs
A PG and one of our shooters. When his numbers flip like that, I'm gonna point it out. That's what I do. When it's positive and not negative, I point that out.
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Piggyback off of who??
Kam hasn't been good for a while but I've giving him praise for his 82% FT in B12 play.
First 21 games, 40% 3pt and 2.2 TOs
Last 12 , 29% 3pt and 3.8 TOs
A PG and one of our shooters. When his numbers flip like that, I'm gonna point it out. That's what I do. When it's positive and not negative, I point that out.
He hasn't been good since he had that procedure on his toe.
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“We wanted to get Kam on the move,” K-State coach oscar Weber said.
“Their defense was a little different than we thought it was going to be,” Wade said.
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article137913363.html (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article137913363.html)
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https://twitter.com/SprintCenter/status/840419486469623808
Poor oscar.
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https://twitter.com/SprintCenter/status/840419486469623808
Poor oscar.
Play against a oscar Weber coached team
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Hey, at least now you all can root for a good coach tonight in the Chamionship...
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Good morning Cdubs, now get lost
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Soak it in CW. Soak it all in.
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“We wanted to get Kam on the move,” K-State coach oscar Weber said.
“Their defense was a little different than we thought it was going to be,” Wade said.
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article137913363.html (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article137913363.html)
Oh no :angry:
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seriously, the 10-20 prior possessions against the zone should be much more of a concern than the last play. Expecting to get a good look against a good defensive team with 10 seconds and no great one-on-one scorers is always going to be a long shot.
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seriously, the 10-20 prior possessions against the zone should be much more of a concern than the last play. Expecting to get a good look against a good defensive team with 10 seconds and no great one-on-one scorers is always going to be a long shot.
Yes, we seemingly had no idea what to do playing a team for the 3rd time. Its not like Huggins put this defense in for this game, we had to know it and have done prep for it this year.
I think part of it was oscar went into clock mode and as a result most of our offense was run the shot clock down to under 10 and force a jump shot. oscar often goes into that mode in the last 10 minutes with a lead.
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Good morning Cdubs, now get lost
I'm like oscar Weber...
You can't get rid of me. :gocho:
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:D
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We've talked a lot about Dean's production and success, but when both of the sophomore guards play poorly its a problem too. I suppose that is expected with a 7-8 man rotation. Despite posse's strange personal crusade against Stokes, Barry doing nothing after playing a fabulous game vs Baylor was just as big (if not more) of a problem last night offensively. When those guys have ORtings of way under .90 together its a problem. Granted, WVU is one of the best defensive teams in the country and finished as the best defensive team in the Big 12.
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seriously, the 10-20 prior possessions against the zone should be much more of a concern than the last play. Expecting to get a good look against a good defensive team with 10 seconds and no great one-on-one scorers is always going to be a long shot.
Yes, we seemingly had no idea what to do playing a team for the 3rd time. Its not like Huggins put this defense in for this game, we had to know it and have done prep for it this year.
I think part of it was oscar went into clock mode and as a result most of our offense was run the shot clock down to under 10 and force a jump shot. oscar often goes into that mode in the last 10 minutes with a lead.
Yeah. KSU did a good job "playing basketball" in the first half - using tempo to break the press and get layups. But they could never really do it against the 1-3-1 - not sure how much of that was trying to run clock and how much was failure to make adjustments.
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seriously, the 10-20 prior possessions against the zone should be much more of a concern than the last play. Expecting to get a good look against a good defensive team with 10 seconds and no great one-on-one scorers is always going to be a long shot.
Yes, we seemingly had no idea what to do playing a team for the 3rd time. Its not like Huggins put this defense in for this game, we had to know it and have done prep for it this year.
I think part of it was oscar went into clock mode and as a result most of our offense was run the shot clock down to under 10 and force a jump shot. oscar often goes into that mode in the last 10 minutes with a lead.
Yeah. KSU did a good job "playing basketball" in the first half - using tempo to break the press and get layups. But they could never really do it against the 1-3-1 - not sure how much of that was trying to run clock and how much was failure to make adjustments.
Also, WVU went from .52 points per possession to 1.23 and 25% shooting to 45%. Its a lot easier to get out in transition when the other team isn't making shots or scoring much.
Our 2nd half defense really wasn't good, especially getting killed on the offensive boards.
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seriously, the 10-20 prior possessions against the zone should be much more of a concern than the last play. Expecting to get a good look against a good defensive team with 10 seconds and no great one-on-one scorers is always going to be a long shot.
I agree with this, and I don't know how oscar expects to win a tournament game if he feels unprepared for a team we've prepared for three times.
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seriously, the 10-20 prior possessions against the zone should be much more of a concern than the last play. Expecting to get a good look against a good defensive team with 10 seconds and no great one-on-one scorers is always going to be a long shot.
This is true but my anger/concern stems from that he thought they were gong to play man when we spent so much time struggling against the zone. He should have prepared for the zone then if they were in man he should have just called one of the iso sets after the ball was inbounded.
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seriously, the 10-20 prior possessions against the zone should be much more of a concern than the last play. Expecting to get a good look against a good defensive team with 10 seconds and no great one-on-one scorers is always going to be a long shot.
This is true but my anger/concern stems from that he thought they were gong to play man when we spent so much time struggling against the zone. He should have prepared for the zone then if they were in man he should have just called one of the iso sets after the ball was inbounded.
Yeah. Watching 2 guys screen air (to be fair, you can screen against a zone, part of that was on DJamer/Wade not finding the top guys to screen) on that last play is mind boggling.
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seriously, the 10-20 prior possessions against the zone should be much more of a concern than the last play. Expecting to get a good look against a good defensive team with 10 seconds and no great one-on-one scorers is always going to be a long shot.
This is true but my anger/concern stems from that he thought they were gong to play man when we spent so much time struggling against the zone. He should have prepared for the zone then if they were in man he should have just called one of the iso sets after the ball was inbounded.
Yeah. Watching 2 guys screen air (to be fair, you can screen against a zone, part of that was on DJamer/Wade not finding the top guys to screen) on that last play is mind boggling.
It looks like they went to set a double screen on the head of that zone but it was not to Kam's dominant hand.
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seriously, the 10-20 prior possessions against the zone should be much more of a concern than the last play. Expecting to get a good look against a good defensive team with 10 seconds and no great one-on-one scorers is always going to be a long shot.
I agree with this, and I don't know how oscar expects to win a tournament game if he feels unprepared for a team we've prepared for three times.
The bracketmakers haven't done oscar any favors
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Yeah, my frustration with Kam had been building and I just let it all out yday. We weren't very good offensively for the entirety of the game. Even before Huggy went Zone, we had 39 Pts in 41 Possessions. Kam had 5 of our 8 TOs at one point and there was 14 minutes still to play. He seemed to be only one being careless
Brown shooting numbers weren't great either. He was forced to take 2-3 shots with the shot clock running down because we were struggling against that zone. I thought when he hit the 3 to give us a 48-42 lead that we would hold off WV. But Barry/DJamer both got to the line and only got 1point. DJamer had a layup blocked and then got stripped on his follow attempt.
And yes FAN, WV OR was an issue in the 2nd half and on their last Poss
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We faced the best 2 oboarding teams in the league and both destroyed us . Vs Baylor we survived because we hit shots, vs WVU we didn't hit shots.
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We faced the best 2 oboarding teams in the league and both destroyed us . Vs Baylor we survived because we hit shots, vs WVU we didn't hit shots.
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Yeah, and I think BU only had 4 2nd chance pts on their 16 ORs.