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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: Bookcat on December 06, 2016, 07:53:21 PM

Title: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: Bookcat on December 06, 2016, 07:53:21 PM
Tonight is the first time I have heard of such a thing.  What is it,  what does it do? Does Kansas have one? Emaw

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Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: CNS on December 06, 2016, 08:00:34 PM
It is the chart that charts the demise of WildWildcat bball.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: EMAWzifried on December 06, 2016, 08:24:09 PM
oscar's dream is to cash in with an endorsement. "This play hard moment of the game brought to by Viagra."
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: CNS on December 06, 2016, 08:29:13 PM
  Irrelevant letters like W  are not allowed on the chart.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: CNS on December 06, 2016, 08:30:12 PM
The PHC is reviewed post game over orange slices and juice boxes.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: Trim on December 06, 2016, 08:43:02 PM
It's a thing oscar created, just not as famous yet as LHC Bill Snyder's powercat.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: MakeItRain on December 06, 2016, 09:18:33 PM
It's a thing oscar created, just not as famous yet as LHC Bill Snyder's powercat.

We had it in high school, a lot of basketball teams have something similar, but 99.99% of most coaches don't drone on and on about it like oscar does, and we definitely didn't do it in practice. Basically think of it like the old "Hustle Board" that the Trailblazers had in their stadium back in the day.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTM1nT71.jpg&hash=23ca6b8a093da3c99edbbc9007c204372f03860c)


Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: cfbandyman on December 06, 2016, 09:23:10 PM
I can never get over how the Wiz's logo looks like a penis. Always makes me lol if I happen to watch a game @DC when players cross the red headed male genitals and balls every possession, and I don't care if that makes me have the mind of a 13 year old.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: GregKSU1027 on December 07, 2016, 12:26:32 AM
Tonight is the first time I have heard of such a thing.  What is it,  what does it do? Does Kansas have one? Emaw

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Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: bones129 on December 07, 2016, 01:43:18 AM
Tonight is the first time I have heard of such a thing.  What is it,  what does it do? Does Kansas have one? Emaw

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 :impatient:
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: Canary on December 07, 2016, 08:58:55 AM
I don't see what all the criticism is about the play hard chart.  People who manage collect and use data all the time. Sometimes changes are made, but other times it is a recognition piece and a competitive incentive. In my job I am constantly using information about facets of staff performance that contribute to or detract from the collective goals of my organization.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: EMAWican on December 07, 2016, 09:12:51 AM
It's like the basketball coach that I had that used to stick purple card-stock hearts on our lockers for each charge that we'd get. Does oscar give them purple Powercat stickers instead?
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: kso_FAN on December 07, 2016, 09:20:15 AM
I don't see what all the criticism is about the play hard chart.  People who manage collect and use data all the time. Sometimes changes are made, but other times it is a recognition piece and a competitive incentive. In my job I am constantly using information about facets of staff performance that contribute to or detract from the collective goals of my organization.

I don't think its a bad thing. Coaches always emphasize playing hard in their own way, oscar just uses the play hard chart as his tool to do so. There is a correlation between winning those stats as a team and winning games. But oscar is hard to like and didn't win the last two years, so it doesn't matter if its a valid tool or now really to most fans. Its just another goofy thing to make fun of and I get that.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: pissclams on December 07, 2016, 10:15:00 AM
i might have missed it but i didn't really see anyone criticizing the play hard chart.  anyone who has been paying any attention knows that oscar uses the play hard chart and anyone who pays any attention to basketball in general knows that a lot of other coaches do too.

and in a game like basketball where working hard can overcome talent or size deficiencies, something like a play hard chart makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: _33 on December 07, 2016, 10:26:09 AM
The PHC is no more or less stupid and meaningless than the 16 goals but LHC Bill Snyder wins and oscar Weber loses. Therefore one is celebrated and one is mocked.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: MakeItRain on December 07, 2016, 10:30:17 AM
I don't see what all the criticism is about the play hard chart.  People who manage collect and use data all the time. Sometimes changes are made, but other times it is a recognition piece and a competitive incentive. In my job I am constantly using information about facets of staff performance that contribute to or detract from the collective goals of my organization.

I don't think its a bad thing. Coaches always emphasize playing hard in their own way, oscar just uses the play hard chart as his tool to do so. There is a correlation between winning those stats as a team and winning games. But oscar is hard to like and didn't win the last two years, so it doesn't matter if its a valid tool or now really to most fans. Its just another goofy thing to make fun of and I get that.

The issue isn't that he uses one, its that he's always talking about it, often in lieu of accountability.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: michigancat on December 07, 2016, 10:37:29 AM
The PHC is no more or less stupid and meaningless than the 16 goals but LHC Bill Snyder wins and oscar Weber loses. Therefore one is celebrated and one is mocked.

I think both are pretty regularly mocked
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: 'taterblast on December 07, 2016, 10:41:01 AM
The PHC is no more or less stupid and meaningless than the 16 goals but LHC Bill Snyder wins and oscar Weber loses. Therefore one is celebrated and one is mocked.

I think both are pretty regularly mocked

yes.
"oh man look at those stupid ass 16 goals, gotta love snyder tho"
"oh man look at that stupid ass play hard chart, eff oscar that is so dumb"
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: _33 on December 07, 2016, 10:59:42 AM
I mean most gimmicks that coaches use like this are pretty stupid.  John Wooden's Pyramid For Success is about the dumbest piece of crap thing I've ever seen and people still love it and think it's genius.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: EMAWzifried on December 07, 2016, 11:05:06 AM
At root of much of the mockery is a dumb name for something that was an internalized prerequisite by the previous coaching staff.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: kso_FAN on December 07, 2016, 11:08:05 AM
I don't see what all the criticism is about the play hard chart.  People who manage collect and use data all the time. Sometimes changes are made, but other times it is a recognition piece and a competitive incentive. In my job I am constantly using information about facets of staff performance that contribute to or detract from the collective goals of my organization.

I don't think its a bad thing. Coaches always emphasize playing hard in their own way, oscar just uses the play hard chart as his tool to do so. There is a correlation between winning those stats as a team and winning games. But oscar is hard to like and didn't win the last two years, so it doesn't matter if its a valid tool or now really to most fans. Its just another goofy thing to make fun of and I get that.

The issue isn't that he uses one, its that he's always talking about it, often in lieu of accountability.

Do you have an example of this? Do you mean accountability to himself or for the players? Just curious.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: Kat Kid on December 07, 2016, 11:18:42 AM
I definitely make fun of the fact that oscar once said in a post-game that someone almost had a triple double if you include the play hard stats (which in oscar's system includes steals). 

I agree with most of what has been said above.  It is annoying because oscar is annoying and we are losers, it would be great if it were Frank doing it and we were winners.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: Trim on December 07, 2016, 11:27:09 AM
I definitely make fun of the fact that oscar once said in a post-game that someone almost had a triple double if you include the play hard stats (which in oscar's system includes steals). 

A phc memory I have is when I learned that you can just change the formula if the numbers aren't coming out the way you want.

http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=842.msg1303283#msg1303283
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: pissclams on December 07, 2016, 11:45:00 AM
I mean most gimmicks that coaches use like this are pretty stupid.  John Wooden's Pyramid For Success is about the dumbest piece of crap thing I've ever seen and people still love it and think it's genius.

ever heard of isaac newton's laws of motion, stan? they're the biggest jokes ever and, like wooden, he's universally loved
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: MakeItRain on December 07, 2016, 12:24:30 PM
I don't see what all the criticism is about the play hard chart.  People who manage collect and use data all the time. Sometimes changes are made, but other times it is a recognition piece and a competitive incentive. In my job I am constantly using information about facets of staff performance that contribute to or detract from the collective goals of my organization.

I don't think its a bad thing. Coaches always emphasize playing hard in their own way, oscar just uses the play hard chart as his tool to do so. There is a correlation between winning those stats as a team and winning games. But oscar is hard to like and didn't win the last two years, so it doesn't matter if its a valid tool or now really to most fans. Its just another goofy thing to make fun of and I get that.

The issue isn't that he uses one, its that he's always talking about it, often in lieu of accountability.

Do you have an example of this? Do you mean accountability to himself or for the players? Just curious.

Both. He did it last night which is why I'm guessing it came up here. When Stan at halftime asked something to the effect of why are you struggling, his answer was "well we're losing the play hard chart." Of course this is ridiculous, you and others pointed out that PVAM held the ball and played zone and we shot poorly. He couldn't identify that, he mentioned the play hard chart, again. People mentioned the 16 goals but Snyder rarely references that, oscar mentions the play hard chart nearly every game. Can you imagine if a sideline reporter asks about a slow start and Snyder says something about intrinsic values and not following the 16 goals? It is ridiculous.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: pissclams on December 07, 2016, 01:32:44 PM
in fairness to b-dubs, stan prompted the reference w his question
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: GregKSU1027 on December 07, 2016, 01:51:53 PM
Tonight is the first time I have heard of such a thing.  What is it,  what does it do? Does Kansas have one? Emaw

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 :impatient:
Pulled from a 2015 Kellis Eagle article this is what it actually is "The system is simple. K-State assigns one point every time a player comes up with a deflection, block, steal, dive, loose ball or offensive rebound. Drawing a charge earns two points. At game’s end, the points are counted. The player with the most play-hard points is the deemed the game’s hardest-working player. Ditto for the team with the most play-hard points"

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article8626292.html#storylink=cpy

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Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: EMAWican on December 07, 2016, 01:56:45 PM
MIR hit it on the head. oscar's inability to identify the actual causes for poor play and then on top of that blame losing the play hard chart is infuriating.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: Cire on December 07, 2016, 02:00:47 PM
The PHC is no more or less stupid and meaningless than the 16 goals but LHC LHC Bill Snyder wins and oscar Weber loses. Therefore one is celebrated and one is mocked.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on December 07, 2016, 02:08:59 PM
I mean most gimmicks that coaches use like this are pretty stupid.  John Wooden's Pyramid For Success is about the dumbest piece of crap thing I've ever seen and people still love it and think it's genius.

ever heard of isaac newton's laws of motion, stan? they're the biggest jokes ever and, like wooden, he's universally loved

#downwithnewton
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: Clevey 2 Times on December 07, 2016, 09:22:24 PM
At root of much of the mockery is a dumb name for something that was an internalized prerequisite by the previous coaching staff.

This. rough ridin' this.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: Clevey 2 Times on December 07, 2016, 09:24:38 PM
It's a thing oscar created, just not as famous yet as LHC LHC Bill Snyder's powercat.

We had it in high school, a lot of basketball teams have something similar, but 99.99% of most coaches don't drone on and on about it like oscar does, and we definitely didn't do it in practice. Basically think of it like the old "Hustle Board" that the Trailblazers had in their stadium back in the day.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTM1nT71.jpg&hash=23ca6b8a093da3c99edbbc9007c204372f03860c)

Otto Porter...brings nothing.

Also, Lebron's squad doesn't need this stupid chart that no professional basketball player gives a god damn about.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: Ptolemy on December 07, 2016, 10:48:02 PM
Pulled from a 2015 Kellis Eagle article this is what it actually is "The system is simple. K-State assigns one point every time a player comes up with a deflection, block, steal, dive, loose ball or offensive rebound. Drawing a charge earns two points. At game’s end, the points are counted. The player with the most play-hard points is the deemed the game’s hardest-working player. Ditto for the team with the most play-hard points"

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article8626292.html#storylink=cpy

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[/quote]

oscar said in that article, "We don't have Top 10 draft picks."

Why is that exactly oscar? Whose fault is that? Huggins and Frank had Top 10 Draft picks.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: kso_FAN on December 08, 2016, 09:30:11 AM
oscar said in that article, "We don't have Top 10 draft picks."

Why is that exactly oscar? Whose fault is that? Huggins and Frank had Top 10 Draft picks.

To be fair, that's not really a thing. Huggs recruited Mike and Frank inherited him, but lets not act like this is some common thing. K-State doesn't have a history filled with 1st round picks.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: CNS on December 08, 2016, 09:33:17 AM
oscar said in that article, "We don't have Top 10 draft picks."

Why is that exactly oscar? Whose fault is that? Huggins and Frank had Top 10 Draft picks.

To be fair, that's not really a thing. Huggs recruited Mike and Frank inherited him, but lets not act like this is some common thing. K-State doesn't have a history filled with 1st round picks.

Yet Huggs and Frank put together teams that didn't make me want to change the channel.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: kso_FAN on December 08, 2016, 09:34:34 AM
Yet Huggs and Frank put together teams that didn't make me want to change the channel.

Definitely, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying "oscar doesn't recruit lottery picks" is like 87th on my oscar complaints list.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: CNS on December 08, 2016, 09:55:29 AM
Yeah.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: GregKSU1027 on December 08, 2016, 10:05:58 AM
Yet Huggs and Frank put together teams that didn't make me want to change the channel.

Definitely, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying "oscar doesn't recruit lottery picks" is like 87th on my oscar complaints list.
Pretty close to the top of mine is free throws

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Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: GregKSU1027 on December 08, 2016, 10:06:57 AM
Yet Huggs and Frank put together teams that didn't make me want to change the channel.

Definitely, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying "oscar doesn't recruit lottery picks" is like 87th on my oscar complaints list.
Pretty close to the top of mine is free throws

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Number one is probably the mismatching poop brown suit he wore to the Prarie View game.

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Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: CNS on December 08, 2016, 10:27:33 AM
If you put poop suit over face, voice, stupid inept helpless face during games, etc, you are just trolling.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: chum1 on December 08, 2016, 12:52:41 PM
Do any coaches use two, separate charts?
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: GregKSU1027 on December 08, 2016, 02:56:12 PM
If you put poop suit over face, voice, stupid inept helpless face during games, etc, you are just trolling.
It was mismatching TWO DIFFERENT SHADES OF BROWN

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Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: GregKSU1027 on December 08, 2016, 03:00:23 PM
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=10755.0

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Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: GregKSU1027 on December 08, 2016, 03:00:54 PM
If you all have a problem fire up the new coach Master thread.

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Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: GregKSU1027 on December 08, 2016, 03:01:12 PM
BTW the thread I posted above is a jewel

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Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: Asteriskhead on December 08, 2016, 03:24:58 PM
I mean most gimmicks that coaches use like this are pretty stupid.  John Wooden's Pyramid For Success is about the dumbest piece of crap thing I've ever seen and people still love it and think it's genius.

i have to stare at one of these motherfucking posters everyday at work.
Title: Re: The Play Hard Chart
Post by: The Whale on December 08, 2016, 03:39:04 PM
Like in baseball, the bad teams usually come into Spring Training saying they're focusing on the fundamentals. 

Good teams don't need a point of emphasis on something that should be expected.