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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: kslim on November 10, 2015, 12:53:47 PM
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okay so a group of us discussed this at the game Thursday. Is this no the dumbest crap out there right now? we did it on a hail mary not once but twice to end the half. LIke what other rough ridin' play are we going to call there? we also did it twice on the first play of the game to START THE rough ridin' GAME, i mean arent those plays scripted? can stupid joe not check at the line?
i hate everything right now so if i need checked thats fine.
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also the clap to snap is rough ridin' stupid as well.
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Meh
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It's the system we run.
Not sure about clapping. Lots of teams do that, maybe to combat defenses barking
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Baylor was clap snapping and it was super loud claps
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In check with me, if the defense aligns in a certain look it is auto check. If the qb knows the adjustment my guess is he makes it at the line. If not the sideline signals
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Ok so clapping is easier to hear
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I are call plays?
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Yeah, way too control freaky, short leashy, overthinky.
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In check with me, if the defense aligns in a certain look it is auto check. If the qb knows the adjustment my guess is he makes it at the line. If not the sideline signals
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so why do it on 4th and forever with 2 seconds on the clock and everyone knowing what is coming not only once but twice? my point behind this is what good does it do? do our coaches actually think the other coaches dont watch game film? last week we were calling out the plays before they happened on this premise(obviously it easy to do with our staff)
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Is this a new problem, like at all? We've never been good with a short clock because the entire offense is designed to waste time.
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Is this a new problem, like at all? We've never been good with a short clock because the entire offense is designed to waste time.
nope not at all calling two time outs on the first drive is very normal
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What I don't understand is the huddle portion of our offense. We relay a play into the huddle, break the huddle to see what the defense gives us then check with the sideline. (And rush to change the play only to have the defense change their alignment/scheme in the final seconds of the play clock.) Seems like there could be a few less steps in this process.
Is this something that I think I see but isn't there or are other people as urked as I am?
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Football is way too control freaky in every system. There is no decision making on the players part. I would rather our QB just be allowed to draw up every play with his finger on the palm of his hand.
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is LHC Bill Snyder a megalomaniac?
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What I don't understand is the huddle portion of our offense. We relay a play into the huddle, break the huddle to see what the defense gives us then check with the sideline. (And rush to change the play only to have the defense change their alignment/scheme in the final seconds of the play clock.) Seems like there could be a few less steps in this process.
Is this something that I think I see but isn't there or are other people as urked as I am?
I've seen us walk up to the scrimmage without much of a huddle if we aren't changing personnel. The huddle helps with personnel changes. We change personnel groups all the time. Much more than a lot of teams do. If you were running guys on and off like we do without huddling we'd have 12 men all the time.
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What I don't understand is the huddle portion of our offense. We relay a play into the huddle, break the huddle to see what the defense gives us then check with the sideline. (And rush to change the play only to have the defense change their alignment/scheme in the final seconds of the play clock.) Seems like there could be a few less steps in this process.
Is this something that I think I see but isn't there or are other people as urked as I am?
I've seen us walk up to the scrimmage without much of a huddle if we aren't changing personnel. The huddle helps with personnel changes. We change personnel groups all the time. Much more than a lot of teams do. If you were running guys on and off like we do without huddling we'd have 12 men all the time.
Along the same lines, don't we also utilize more formations than most Big 12 teams? Even if we audible from a pass to a run, it would be pretty difficult to just audible into a completely different formation.
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What I don't understand is the huddle portion of our offense. We relay a play into the huddle, break the huddle to see what the defense gives us then check with the sideline. (And rush to change the play only to have the defense change their alignment/scheme in the final seconds of the play clock.) Seems like there could be a few less steps in this process.
Is this something that I think I see but isn't there or are other people as urked as I am?
I've seen us walk up to the scrimmage without much of a huddle if we aren't changing personnel. The huddle helps with personnel changes. We change personnel groups all the time. Much more than a lot of teams do. If you were running guys on and off like we do without huddling we'd have 12 men all the time.
Why do we change personnel groups so much? Classic over-thinking if you ask me. I mean it's not rocket science, just crash into some people and run into the endzone. Keep It Simple Snyder.
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FAN wrote stuff about our personnel changes in his Fanalysis RIP
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The current system is based on checking the defensive alignments and personnel groups which tip off coverages, stunts, etc. Much of this can't be seen by the players or even the coaches on the sideline, but can be relayed by the coaches in the press box. Our staff believes it can give us an advantage and I tend to agree with this. This has been the system we've had in place ever since Dimel and Miller came back for Snyder 2.0, its not like its new this year. No one complained about it when we had one of the best offenses in the country. Because of Klein's grasp of the offense and the talent on the offense we didn't check as much, but we still checked a lot.
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The current system is based on checking the defensive alignments and personnel groups which tip off coverages, stunts, etc. Much of this can't be seen by the players or even the coaches on the sideline, but can be relayed by the coaches in the press box. Our staff believes it can give us an advantage and I tend to agree with this. This has been the system we've had in place ever since Dimel and Miller came back for Snyder 2.0, its not like its new this year. No one complained about it when we had one of the best offenses in the country. Because of Klein's grasp of the offense and the talent on the offense we didn't check as much, but we still checked a lot.
well, no crap but its not working and actually costing us now.
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The current system is based on checking the defensive alignments and personnel groups which tip off coverages, stunts, etc. Much of this can't be seen by the players or even the coaches on the sideline, but can be relayed by the coaches in the press box. Our staff believes it can give us an advantage and I tend to agree with this. This has been the system we've had in place ever since Dimel and Miller came back for Snyder 2.0, its not like its new this year. No one complained about it when we had one of the best offenses in the country. Because of Klein's grasp of the offense and the talent on the offense we didn't check as much, but we still checked a lot.
well, no crap but its not working and actually costing us now.
I don't think check with me is the problem.
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The current system is based on checking the defensive alignments and personnel groups which tip off coverages, stunts, etc. Much of this can't be seen by the players or even the coaches on the sideline, but can be relayed by the coaches in the press box. Our staff believes it can give us an advantage and I tend to agree with this. This has been the system we've had in place ever since Dimel and Miller came back for Snyder 2.0, its not like its new this year. No one complained about it when we had one of the best offenses in the country. Because of Klein's grasp of the offense and the talent on the offense we didn't check as much, but we still checked a lot.
well, no crap but its not working and actually costing us now.
I don't think check with me is the problem.
see, i actually do. watched the last three games and we ran the same play out of the check with me audible probably 75% of the time (with a matter of variance with direction) the only time it actually was disguised well was with cook @ osu and that was more of the fact that they never thought he would throw. this is very very similar to 2004-05 when coach was behind the game and couldnt catch up.
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okay so a group of us discussed this at the game Thursday. Is this no the dumbest crap out there right now? we did it on a hail mary not once but twice to end the half. LIke what other rough ridin' play are we going to call there? we also did it twice on the first play of the game to START THE rough ridin' GAME, i mean arent those plays scripted? can stupid joe not check at the line?
i hate everything right now so if i need checked thats fine.
I appreciate the "hate everything right now" frustration, but the entire process is way more complicated than you comprehend.
I do, however, think that we should come up and run a quick play every once-in-a-while to force the defense to be "on-point" for the entire play clock.
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The current system is based on checking the defensive alignments and personnel groups which tip off coverages, stunts, etc. Much of this can't be seen by the players or even the coaches on the sideline, but can be relayed by the coaches in the press box. Our staff believes it can give us an advantage and I tend to agree with this. This has been the system we've had in place ever since Dimel and Miller came back for Snyder 2.0, its not like its new this year. No one complained about it when we had one of the best offenses in the country. Because of Klein's grasp of the offense and the talent on the offense we didn't check as much, but we still checked a lot.
well, no crap but its not working and actually costing us now.
I don't think check with me is the problem.
see, i actually do. watched the last three games and we ran the same play out of the check with me audible probably 75% of the time (with a matter of variance with direction) the only time it actually was disguised well was with cook @ osu and that was more of the fact that they never thought he would throw. this is very very similar to 2004-05 when coach was behind the game and couldnt catch up.
Huebs could have been checking into the wrong play.
There are a bazillion checks in the system. It's his job to get to the right one.
I bet the coaches would say "well, we need to get better at checking to the right play"
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Well I agree that the problems now might be similar to 04/05, but I don't think it has anything to do with the system (which is much different now than then). To me its a talent issue more than anything.
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The current system is based on checking the defensive alignments and personnel groups which tip off coverages, stunts, etc. Much of this can't be seen by the players or even the coaches on the sideline, but can be relayed by the coaches in the press box. Our staff believes it can give us an advantage and I tend to agree with this. This has been the system we've had in place ever since Dimel and Miller came back for Snyder 2.0, its not like its new this year. No one complained about it when we had one of the best offenses in the country. Because of Klein's grasp of the offense and the talent on the offense we didn't check as much, but we still checked a lot.
well, no crap but its not working and actually costing us now.
I don't think check with me is the problem.
see, i actually do. watched the last three games and we ran the same play out of the check with me audible probably 75% of the time (with a matter of variance with direction) the only time it actually was disguised well was with cook @ osu and that was more of the fact that they never thought he would throw. this is very very similar to 2004-05 when coach was behind the game and couldnt catch up.
Um, yeah, whatever. Other teams really have no idea how to stop our offense, assuming a good QB and competent WR's. Can you imagine how many yards Banks, Delton, Bishop, or Roberson would have had against BU? They would have run for over 220 yards easily. I actually think we are getting better and better at this offense. Just need about three healthy QBs and some upgrades at WR.
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Um, yeah, whatever. Other teams really have no idea how to stop our offense, assuming a good QB and competent WR's. Can you imagine how many yards Banks, Delton, Bishop, or Roberson would have had against BU? They would have run for over 220 yards easily. I actually think we are getting better and better at this offense. Just need about three healthy QBs and some upgrades at WR.
We basically saw that when Sams averaged 5 or 6 ypc vs OSU & BU when TLBL and TT were hurt
the problem this season is we are checking into pass plays we cannot execute.
The current brain trust was part of the early days of DoD 1.0 where they could scheme around the lack of talent by calling the perfect play because they either outnumbers people in the box and ran or exploited lbs and safeties that were recruited to stop the NU, OU and CU's running games. That relationship is now almost the perfect inverse as everyone is recruiting to stop the spread passing attack that virtually the entire conference runs.
I have been disappointed that we are in year 7 of this staffs return and they only recruit undersized backs instead of at least one 200+ guy that could overpower an opponent, like when you are up 17 points in the 2nd half.
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to give an idea of what Hubes is supposed to see and get to a good play
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I mean, I really wish our biggest problem was check with me and the offensive system. Our coaches have had lots of success during Snyder 2.0, most of that dictated by solid QB play and complimentary skill players with solid offensive line play. This year we were starting over nearly everywhere and have had injuries on top of that.
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I are call plays?
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Pfffffffffft
crap.... :frown:
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Bigger issue is after all of these years with this staff together and we don't have a 2 minute offense, it is absurd.
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Bigger issue is after all of these years with this staff together and we don't have a 2 minute offense, it is absurd.
Yes! Down 2 scores with 6 minutes left... :bang:
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Huebner has never ran an offense in his life. He needs to check with someone
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Huebner has never ran an offense in his life. He needs to check with someone
:ROFL:
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I think it's pretty clear why sometimes the less talented but "knows the offense" get to play.
Not marginalizing the knowing the offense part, but this overemphasizes the system and under emphasizes the athlete. Yet at the end of the day, you just need guys who are athletic and who can make plays. The OSU game in the second half was a perfect example of the dire need for better athletes who could make plays.
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Huebner has never ran an offense in his life. He needs to check with someone
Again DickStone excels! :Woot: :ROFL:
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if you look at old playbooks it is very clear that the system is the most important thing.
I don't even thing we have a "2 minute" drill. We have our own version of a hurry up when we are down by 2 scores but all it dictates is that everyone "hustles to position" and requires the QB to audible nearly every play. Basically our "hurry up" is call a formation, get to the line ASAP and the QB has to Audible while they are getting set, not after, the routes are all to the boundary and try to get Out of bounds.