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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball => Topic started by: Trim on February 20, 2015, 11:12:39 AM

Title: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Trim on February 20, 2015, 11:12:39 AM
It's American and we live by freedom of speech but this coaching staff isn't just fighting a few players with attitude issues . They are dealing with fans supporting those bad attitudes and blaming the coaching staff. How can leadership win in this inviroment . Marcus Foster game winning three in the Oklahoma win may have been the worst thing that could happened to this team , his actions after hitting that shot wasn't just about take (that Oklahoma )but also put the supension where the sun don't shine to the coaching staff .Ask yourself if this was in your workplace and your in management how would you deal with this ? This is a cancer !


God Bless America and God Bless Kansas State !
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Cartierfor3 on February 20, 2015, 11:14:02 AM
 :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Sandstone Outcropping on February 20, 2015, 11:19:03 AM
:kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot:
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: slackcat on February 20, 2015, 11:20:50 AM
This "distraction" called goEMAW.com is the death of the team.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Tobias on February 20, 2015, 11:21:33 AM
"this needs an exclamation point.  nah, spacebar first !"
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 20, 2015, 11:23:02 AM
"this needs an exclamation point.  nah, spacebar first !"

 :lol:
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: CHONGS on February 20, 2015, 11:24:13 AM
could be french?
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: ChiComCat on February 20, 2015, 11:25:59 AM
I agree with OP.  I also want this team to be successful and was also super pissed when Foster hit that 3.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: 0.42 on February 20, 2015, 11:34:34 AM
would it be possible to fit that entire post into The Word?
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: CNS on February 20, 2015, 01:00:05 PM
I hate everyone.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: EMAWzified on February 20, 2015, 01:09:36 PM
It's websites like this one that made the world save for ISIS and threatening for old white men. But yeah, freedom of speech.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: #LIFE on February 20, 2015, 01:22:12 PM
Wait, Tuckfano told me if I was a real Cats fan I would rather win than be right.  Quite the pickle  :confused:
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: 8manpick on February 20, 2015, 01:37:11 PM
C/p or forgot to log into renocat account?
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: illinibri92 on February 20, 2015, 01:59:08 PM
It's American and we live by freedom of speech but this coaching staff isn't just fighting a few players with attitude issues . They are dealing with fans supporting those bad attitudes and blaming the coaching staff. How can leadership win in this inviroment . Marcus Foster game winning three in the Oklahoma win may have been the worst thing that could happened to this team , his actions after hitting that shot wasn't just about take (that Oklahoma )but also put the supension where the sun don't shine to the coaching staff .Ask yourself if this was in your workplace and your in management how would you deal with this ? This is a cancer !


God Bless America and God Bless Kansas State !


"Ask yourself if this was in your workplace and your in management how would you deal with this ?"

I would fire the leadership that let it get that way.  Next Question?
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Trim on February 20, 2015, 02:04:15 PM
I would fire the leadership that let it get that way.  Next Question?

Look like isisbri92 deicded (to show) up here !
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: chum1 on February 20, 2015, 03:10:41 PM
Quote from: really, who cares about what this guy says?
Ask yourself if this was in your workplace and your in management how would you deal with this

Honest question that I thought of this morning...

College coaches make their living by getting 18-23 year olds to perform.

Other industries that do the same thing?: Retail and food service

If oscar Weber was managing an Arby's or an American Eagle, what would it look like?  I mean, seriously.

Could oscar Weber actually motivate people to make a roast beef sandwich properly or fold skinny jeans?
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: j rake on February 20, 2015, 03:36:47 PM
the OP is poorly articulated, but the sentiment isn't entirely terrible. i find myself becoming increasingly turned off by college sports because of idiot fans with unrealistic expectations - not just at k-state, but at basically every school everywhere. the notion that you can win every season, consistently, despite moving parts (players and coaching staff), despite variance, etc., is fairytale stuff...unless you're duke or kentucky or kansas. even then, you'll get some resistance from overachieving virginia, florida, etc., every now and then.

the oscar weber era will play out predictably. after this year's debacle is finished, the previous two very good seasons will be forgotten, and weber will open next year firmly on the hot seat. k-state will not be a great team. it will merely be a good team. but unfortunately, other schools in the big 12 are also good while some are great. k-state's good team won't be able to measure up against kansas. it won't be as good as texas. it won't be as good as iowa state. it won't be as good as west virginia. it likely won't be as good as baylor. or oklahoma. or...wow...is it setting in yet? this is a very competitive league! k-state could conceivably be better next year than this year and end up with a worse record in league. regardless, it won't be good enough, it will fall shy of expectations, fans will stop showing up for non-KU or non-Big Monday games...and attendance will steadily drop...fire weber campaigns will rise...recruits will go elsewhere...and then k-state is left to hire the next savior coach.

the next savior coach will come in. maybe it's underwood. maybe it's kelvin sampson. maybe it's gottlieb. i doubt it, but maybe. there will be lots of excitement, there will be a rise in fan interest, a few good recruits will sign. and then...the k-state fan base will expect a return to the year-to-year consistency that frank martin had. the new coach might very well put together a nice team. but will it be good enough? it very likely won't be. why? because ku remains better than k-state. texas, after a few down years, will likely be better than k-state. iowa state, so long as hoiberg is there, will likely be better than k-state. wvu under bob huggins is likely to put together better teams that are better coached. baylor's program (seven of the last eight years top ~30 in KenPom) has passed k-state. the oklahoma schools in theory should get better talent than k-state. i mean, k-state is bottom five rather than top five in this league going forward...it's clear to me. it's not clear to the fan base, at least not yet.

the 2013-14 team went 10-8 in league...4-0 against tcu and texas tech, 6-8 against everyone else. in future seasons, 2-2 is probably the most likely outcome (3-1 at best) against those teams (tcu and TT are improving). the previous year, k-state was a "good" team in a bad league. the big 12 was down across the board and was rated below the mountain west.

frank martin's tenure, let's be honest...he benefited from beating up on nebraska, iowa state, texas tech and colorado. all four schools were consistently down during his tenure, and he went 24-7 against those teams during their doldrum seasons. against the rest of the Big 12, he was 26-25. which is good! but it's average. and k-state going forward will be average. some years, tourney. some years, not. up and down, ebbs and flows.

i'm not defending oscar...not at all...but i have a feeling k-state fans are going to run out every new coach that can't live up to the impossibly high, unrealistic standards that this fan base now has as a result of a nice run (largely under frank) against what was previously a watered-down league.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: sys on February 20, 2015, 03:40:01 PM
the OP is poorly articulated, but the sentiment isn't entirely terrible...

it's important to hire a coach that the fans like.  helps buffer the unrealistic expectations.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Mr Bread on February 20, 2015, 03:41:19 PM
That guy really gets it.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: ksupamplemousse on February 20, 2015, 03:41:33 PM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.popfi.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fold_man_high_pants.jpg&hash=b8d68ad6c3a2e5c892ee5ed5d085b0bd1aecb26c)
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: rob mccolley on February 20, 2015, 03:42:45 PM
God Bless America and God Bless Kansas State !

God is certainly one of Kansas's better inventions.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F6%2F6e%2FTouched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg&hash=cc5ca92c7d62c68b6857bdf746acba348d375558)
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: j rake on February 20, 2015, 03:51:30 PM
it's important to hire a coach that the fans like.  helps buffer the unrealistic expectations.

if k-state didn't rally to beat EKU in Week 1 of the 2011 season, i am convinced that this fan base...and this forum...would have done everything possible to run snyder out of town and usher in the next savior coach. 

let's not pretend that likability is the key factor here.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: CNS on February 20, 2015, 03:55:57 PM
FYI, Bill is not likable.  He is tolerable because he wins a lot and doesn't Billscuse the losses.  oscar would be too.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Cartierfor3 on February 20, 2015, 03:56:44 PM
I like Bill. I think he's witty.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: CNS on February 20, 2015, 03:58:45 PM
At very best he is an acquired taste.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: sys on February 20, 2015, 03:59:13 PM
let's not pretend that likability is the key factor here.

i think it matters.  13-14 is going to cause some muttering, no matter who you are.  but if former kstate bball playing and coaching legend bunderwood had won a big 12 title and then tanked, he'd be getting more benefit and less doubt than previous failure bweber is getting.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: ksupamplemousse on February 20, 2015, 04:00:53 PM
let's not pretend that likability is the key factor here.

i think it matters.  13-14 is going to cause some muttering, no matter who you are.  but if former kstate bball playing and coaching legend bunderwood had won a big 12 title and then tanked, he'd be getting more benefit and less doubt than previous failure bweber is getting.

Jim Wooldridge coached here for six years. Likability rough ridin' matters.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: CNS on February 20, 2015, 04:02:24 PM
let's not pretend that likability is the key factor here.

i think it matters.  13-14 is going to cause some muttering, no matter who you are.  but if former kstate bball playing and coaching legend bunderwood had won a big 12 title and then tanked, he'd be getting more benefit and less doubt than previous failure bweber is getting.

Jim Wooldridge coached here for six years. Likability rough ridin' matters.

He wasn't Asbury.  That was more about hate than like.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: ksupamplemousse on February 20, 2015, 04:03:34 PM
let's not pretend that likability is the key factor here.

i think it matters.  13-14 is going to cause some muttering, no matter who you are.  but if former kstate bball playing and coaching legend bunderwood had won a big 12 title and then tanked, he'd be getting more benefit and less doubt than previous failure bweber is getting.

Jim Wooldridge coached here for six years. Likability rough ridin' matters.

He wasn't Asbury.  That was more about hate than like.

For the first couple years, maybe. Certainly not for year six though. He got a sixth year because of sentimentality. People really wanted to see Jim succeed.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: CNS on February 20, 2015, 04:08:14 PM
Wooly was thought to be competitive by some fans.  He was losing, but barely.  The KState condition is that we are some lowly bumfuck place that we will never be able to get quality talent to, so take what we can get and try super hard.  Those fans are still around and still trying to ruin everything as if hope is a cancer.  I think a bunch of them thought Wooly was one year, one player, one call away from really turning a corner.  Take what you can get because who would want us anyway type mentality.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Mr Bread on February 20, 2015, 04:08:24 PM
let's not pretend that likability is the key factor here.

i think it matters.  13-14 is going to cause some muttering, no matter who you are.  but if former kstate bball playing and coaching legend bunderwood had won a big 12 title and then tanked, he'd be getting more benefit and less doubt than previous failure bweber is getting.

He also wouldn't have failed before at a similar job.  Weber got a lot more time, likability aside, at Illinois because he had succeeded at SIU immediately prior.  Just needed to get his high major legs. 
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Mr Bread on February 20, 2015, 04:10:19 PM
So if Currie had brought him in to replace Frank after oscar's SIU stint and his Illinois tenure never existed then you've got a completely different perceived oscar on your hands.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Mr Bread on February 20, 2015, 04:11:51 PM
Though being a proven loser does arguably decrease one's general likability. 
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: TheFormerKCCat on February 20, 2015, 04:14:05 PM
Wooly was thought to be competitive by some fans.
Hell, Wooly even had Jason Whitlock in his corner toward the end. Jason usually hates everybody, except Jeff George.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: ChiComCat on February 20, 2015, 04:14:25 PM
Consistently beating bad teams is an underrated aspect of a good team.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: j rake on February 20, 2015, 04:16:43 PM
He also wouldn't have failed before at a similar job.  Weber got a lot more time, likability aside, at Illinois because he had succeeded at SIU immediately prior.  Just needed to get his high major legs.

again, i wonder just how much oscar really failed in the big ten. at least relative to expectations. the big ten he walked into is much different than the big ten he left. when he was coaching at illinois, the big ten was typically the fourth or fifth best league in the country. it was that way throughout his tenure. in his final two years (and the ensuing two years after) the big ten was the toughest conference. no matter what he does, he's not surpassing izzo, bo, beilein or matta. all those coaches are more talented and have better, more established programs. in his final season, the year everything went wrong, he played the 7th, 3rd, 10th, 23rd, 28th, 2nd, 23rd and 7th best teams in a six-week stretch to close the season. things went poorly...but it wasn't unsurprising. he didn't have a top 15 caliber team that can hang with those teams, especially not on the road.

this year, it's the same story. by season's end, k-state...a team that on paper isn't a top 25 team...will have played 11 teams rated 25th or better in big 12 play. they've won four of the seven so far, and with a team that's in apparent disarray. the tcu and texas tech losses...awful...obviously. and again, oscar sucks, he's unlikable, his sideline demeanor is the worst of any coach i've ever seen, etc.

but going forward, k-state...with oscar...with any coach...is not going to be a consistent, every year top-5 team in this league. it just isn't going to happen.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: AppleJack on February 20, 2015, 04:18:11 PM
Consistently beating bad teams is an underrated aspect of a good team.

yes
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: CNS on February 20, 2015, 04:18:40 PM
Consistently beating bad teams is an underrated aspect of a good team.

yes

It would drastically have changed this year.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on February 20, 2015, 04:21:55 PM
He also wouldn't have failed before at a similar job.  Weber got a lot more time, likability aside, at Illinois because he had succeeded at SIU immediately prior.  Just needed to get his high major legs.

again, i wonder just how much oscar really failed in the big ten. at least relative to expectations. the big ten he walked into is much different than the big ten he left. when he was coaching at illinois, the big ten was typically the fourth or fifth best league in the country. it was that way throughout his tenure. in his final two years (and the ensuing two years after) the big ten was the toughest conference. no matter what he does, he's not surpassing izzo, bo, beilein or matta. all those coaches are more talented and have better, more established programs. in his final season, the year everything went wrong, he played the 7th, 3rd, 10th, 23rd, 28th, 2nd, 23rd and 7th best teams in a six-week stretch to close the season. things went poorly...but it wasn't unsurprising. he didn't have a top 15 caliber team that can hang with those teams, especially not on the road.

this year, it's the same story. by season's end, k-state...a team that on paper isn't a top 25 team...will have played 11 teams rated 25th or better in big 12 play. they've won four of the seven so far, and with a team that's in apparent disarray. the tcu and texas tech losses...awful...obviously. and again, oscar sucks, he's unlikable, his sideline demeanor is the worst of any coach i've ever seen, etc.

but going forward, k-state...with oscar...with any coach...is not going to be a consistent, every year top-5 team in this league. it just isn't going to happen.
Big 10 has always been a top heavy conference. I think it is harder to finish in the top third in the Big 10 than the Big 12. You have coaches like Izzo, Bo Ryan, Thad Matta and on top of that schools like Indiana and Michigan. Big 10 has a lot weakness at the bottom.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: ksupamplemousse on February 20, 2015, 04:22:18 PM
He also wouldn't have failed before at a similar job.  Weber got a lot more time, likability aside, at Illinois because he had succeeded at SIU immediately prior.  Just needed to get his high major legs.

again, i wonder just how much oscar really failed in the big ten. at least relative to expectations. the big ten he walked into is much different than the big ten he left. when he was coaching at illinois, the big ten was typically the fourth or fifth best league in the country. it was that way throughout his tenure. in his final two years (and the ensuing two years after) the big ten was the toughest conference. no matter what he does, he's not surpassing izzo, bo, beilein or matta. all those coaches are more talented and have better, more established programs. in his final season, the year everything went wrong, he played the 7th, 3rd, 10th, 23rd, 28th, 2nd, 23rd and 7th best teams in a six-week stretch to close the season. things went poorly...but it wasn't unsurprising. he didn't have a top 15 caliber team that can hang with those teams, especially not on the road.

this year, it's the same story. by season's end, k-state...a team that on paper isn't a top 25 team...will have played 11 teams rated 25th or better in big 12 play. they've won four of the seven so far, and with a team that's in apparent disarray. the tcu and texas tech losses...awful...obviously. and again, oscar sucks, he's unlikable, his sideline demeanor is the worst of any coach i've ever seen, etc.

but going forward, k-state...with oscar...with any coach...is not going to be a consistent, every year top-5 team in this league. it just isn't going to happen.

That's just not true at all. I mean, literally, our last coach just did that very thing.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 20, 2015, 04:23:28 PM
no matter what he does, he's not surpassing izzo, bo, beilein or matta. all those coaches are more talented

Yeah, when it becomes apparent that no matter what a coach does, he's always going to be worse than half of his league because he's just not good enough, that is when school's typically decide to try somebody else.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Mr Bread on February 20, 2015, 04:42:44 PM
He also wouldn't have failed before at a similar job.  Weber got a lot more time, likability aside, at Illinois because he had succeeded at SIU immediately prior.  Just needed to get his high major legs.

again, i wonder just how much oscar really failed in the big ten. at least relative to expectations. the big ten he walked into is much different than the big ten he left. when he was coaching at illinois, the big ten was typically the fourth or fifth best league in the country. it was that way throughout his tenure. in his final two years (and the ensuing two years after) the big ten was the toughest conference. no matter what he does, he's not surpassing izzo, bo, beilein or matta. all those coaches are more talented and have better, more established programs. in his final season, the year everything went wrong, he played the 7th, 3rd, 10th, 23rd, 28th, 2nd, 23rd and 7th best teams in a six-week stretch to close the season. things went poorly...but it wasn't unsurprising. he didn't have a top 15 caliber team that can hang with those teams, especially not on the road.

this year, it's the same story. by season's end, k-state...a team that on paper isn't a top 25 team...will have played 11 teams rated 25th or better in big 12 play. they've won four of the seven so far, and with a team that's in apparent disarray. the tcu and texas tech losses...awful...obviously. and again, oscar sucks, he's unlikable, his sideline demeanor is the worst of any coach i've ever seen, etc.

but going forward, k-state...with oscar...with any coach...is not going to be a consistent, every year top-5 team in this league. it just isn't going to happen.

oscar didn't change, the big 10 did is something oscar should have been saying when he got fired or was about to be.  He would have loved that talking point.  It's fantastic.

Quote from: The Father, The Son, and The Holy DeBruce
The big 10 of today is as good as it's ever been, better even. So 9th is really 4th, maybe 3rd if you really think about it. Here I am getting fired after finishing the season in 3rd place.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: j rake on February 20, 2015, 04:50:10 PM
He also wouldn't have failed before at a similar job.  Weber got a lot more time, likability aside, at Illinois because he had succeeded at SIU immediately prior.  Just needed to get his high major legs.

again, i wonder just how much oscar really failed in the big ten. at least relative to expectations. the big ten he walked into is much different than the big ten he left. when he was coaching at illinois, the big ten was typically the fourth or fifth best league in the country. it was that way throughout his tenure. in his final two years (and the ensuing two years after) the big ten was the toughest conference. no matter what he does, he's not surpassing izzo, bo, beilein or matta. all those coaches are more talented and have better, more established programs. in his final season, the year everything went wrong, he played the 7th, 3rd, 10th, 23rd, 28th, 2nd, 23rd and 7th best teams in a six-week stretch to close the season. things went poorly...but it wasn't unsurprising. he didn't have a top 15 caliber team that can hang with those teams, especially not on the road.

this year, it's the same story. by season's end, k-state...a team that on paper isn't a top 25 team...will have played 11 teams rated 25th or better in big 12 play. they've won four of the seven so far, and with a team that's in apparent disarray. the tcu and texas tech losses...awful...obviously. and again, oscar sucks, he's unlikable, his sideline demeanor is the worst of any coach i've ever seen, etc.

but going forward, k-state...with oscar...with any coach...is not going to be a consistent, every year top-5 team in this league. it just isn't going to happen.

That's just not true at all. I mean, literally, our last coach just did that very thing.

Frank Martin's Big 12 was far easier than the Big 12 of the present and future.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 20, 2015, 04:52:36 PM
He also wouldn't have failed before at a similar job.  Weber got a lot more time, likability aside, at Illinois because he had succeeded at SIU immediately prior.  Just needed to get his high major legs.

again, i wonder just how much oscar really failed in the big ten. at least relative to expectations. the big ten he walked into is much different than the big ten he left. when he was coaching at illinois, the big ten was typically the fourth or fifth best league in the country. it was that way throughout his tenure. in his final two years (and the ensuing two years after) the big ten was the toughest conference. no matter what he does, he's not surpassing izzo, bo, beilein or matta. all those coaches are more talented and have better, more established programs. in his final season, the year everything went wrong, he played the 7th, 3rd, 10th, 23rd, 28th, 2nd, 23rd and 7th best teams in a six-week stretch to close the season. things went poorly...but it wasn't unsurprising. he didn't have a top 15 caliber team that can hang with those teams, especially not on the road.

this year, it's the same story. by season's end, k-state...a team that on paper isn't a top 25 team...will have played 11 teams rated 25th or better in big 12 play. they've won four of the seven so far, and with a team that's in apparent disarray. the tcu and texas tech losses...awful...obviously. and again, oscar sucks, he's unlikable, his sideline demeanor is the worst of any coach i've ever seen, etc.

but going forward, k-state...with oscar...with any coach...is not going to be a consistent, every year top-5 team in this league. it just isn't going to happen.

That's just not true at all. I mean, literally, our last coach just did that very thing.

Frank Martin's Big 12 was far easier than the Big 12 of the present and future.

Not to finish top 5 in, it wasn't.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Super fan#99 on February 20, 2015, 05:00:58 PM
He also wouldn't have failed before at a similar job.  Weber got a lot more time, likability aside, at Illinois because he had succeeded at SIU immediately prior.  Just needed to get his high major legs.

again, i wonder just how much oscar really failed in the big ten. at least relative to expectations. the big ten he walked into is much different than the big ten he left. when he was coaching at illinois, the big ten was typically the fourth or fifth best league in the country. it was that way throughout his tenure. in his final two years (and the ensuing two years after) the big ten was the toughest conference. no matter what he does, he's not surpassing izzo, bo, beilein or matta. all those coaches are more talented and have better, more established programs. in his final season, the year everything went wrong, he played the 7th, 3rd, 10th, 23rd, 28th, 2nd, 23rd and 7th best teams in a six-week stretch to close the season. things went poorly...but it wasn't unsurprising. he didn't have a top 15 caliber team that can hang with those teams, especially not on the road.

this year, it's the same story. by season's end, k-state...a team that on paper isn't a top 25 team...will have played 11 teams rated 25th or better in big 12 play. they've won four of the seven so far, and with a team that's in apparent disarray. the tcu and texas tech losses...awful...obviously. and again, oscar sucks, he's unlikable, his sideline demeanor is the worst of any coach i've ever seen, etc.

but going forward, k-state...with oscar...with any coach...is not going to be a consistent, every year top-5 team in this league. it just isn't going to happen.

That's just not true at all. I mean, literally, our last coach just did that very thing.

Frank Martin's Big 12 was far easier than the Big 12 of the present and future.
Far easier?  Mizzou was a top 25 team, UT was probably better, Baylor was relatively similar, A&M was solid.  The only major change would probably be ISU's emergence from mediocrity to not as shitty.  It's not like we have any great teams in the Big 12 right now.  2009-10 Cats would win this conference. 
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: ksupamplemousse on February 20, 2015, 05:06:22 PM
Missouri, KU, and Baylor were all in the top ten Frank's final year, and he finished in the top five of the Big XII...with a freshman point guard.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Mr Bread on February 20, 2015, 05:09:23 PM
This is why beems is so successful here.  The low-hanging grapes of gE. 
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: 0.42 on February 20, 2015, 05:24:53 PM
This is why beems is so successful here.  The low-hanging grapes of gE.

yeah. j rake is going straight up :Take the Bait:
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: ksupamplemousse on February 20, 2015, 05:29:00 PM
Pretty sure he's not fishing. If he is, then good for him, I'm an idiot and he got me.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Super fan#99 on February 20, 2015, 05:51:52 PM
This is why beems is so successful here.  The low-hanging grapes of gE.

yeah. j rake is going straight up :Take the Bait:
Well that sucks.  I guess that makes me a low hanging grape :blush: Maybe if I practice real hard I can be one of the cool bros on a message board  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: j rake on February 20, 2015, 06:16:36 PM
Pretty sure he's not fishing. If he is, then good for him, I'm an idiot and he got me.

no, i'm not. i really am this stupid!
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: j rake on February 20, 2015, 06:20:08 PM
Missouri, KU, and Baylor were all in the top ten Frank's final year, and he finished in the top five of the Big XII...with a freshman point guard.

that was arguably the best team in school history. i'm not arguing that k-state is incapable of putting together a solid team. any team in this league, even tcu, is capable of putting a top-10 caliber team on the floor. but to sustain that success...year after year with the desired (demanded?) consistency...it's not happening.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: kso_FAN on February 20, 2015, 06:51:13 PM

Pretty sure he's not fishing. If he is, then good for him, I'm an idiot and he got me.

no, i'm not. i really am this stupid!

You are making good counter points.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on February 20, 2015, 06:55:32 PM
He also wouldn't have failed before at a similar job.  Weber got a lot more time, likability aside, at Illinois because he had succeeded at SIU immediately prior.  Just needed to get his high major legs.

again, i wonder just how much oscar really failed in the big ten. at least relative to expectations. the big ten he walked into is much different than the big ten he left. when he was coaching at illinois, the big ten was typically the fourth or fifth best league in the country. it was that way throughout his tenure. in his final two years (and the ensuing two years after) the big ten was the toughest conference. no matter what he does, he's not surpassing izzo, bo, beilein or matta. all those coaches are more talented and have better, more established programs. in his final season, the year everything went wrong, he played the 7th, 3rd, 10th, 23rd, 28th, 2nd, 23rd and 7th best teams in a six-week stretch to close the season. things went poorly...but it wasn't unsurprising. he didn't have a top 15 caliber team that can hang with those teams, especially not on the road.

this year, it's the same story. by season's end, k-state...a team that on paper isn't a top 25 team...will have played 11 teams rated 25th or better in big 12 play. they've won four of the seven so far, and with a team that's in apparent disarray. the tcu and texas tech losses...awful...obviously. and again, oscar sucks, he's unlikable, his sideline demeanor is the worst of any coach i've ever seen, etc.

but going forward, k-state...with oscar...with any coach...is not going to be a consistent, every year top-5 team in this league. it just isn't going to happen.

That's just not true at all. I mean, literally, our last coach just did that very thing.

Frank Martin's Big 12 was far easier than the Big 12 of the present and future.

Yep and the North was really really weak.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: AndrewVonLintel on February 20, 2015, 07:06:51 PM
K-State basketball has accomplished this in the last 8 years

2 NIT's

NCAA Bids
#11
#9
#8
#5
#4
#2

In that stretch we were 8-8 in postseason tournament play. These are types of things we should expect from the Octagon of Doom.  Hopefully we get in the NIT this year but it is not looking good.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: nicname on February 20, 2015, 07:41:03 PM
Saw that the other day.

 :Yuck:
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: ksupamplemousse on February 21, 2015, 12:16:43 AM
Missouri, KU, and Baylor were all in the top ten Frank's final year, and he finished in the top five of the Big XII...with a freshman point guard.

that was arguably the best team in school history. i'm not arguing that k-state is incapable of putting together a solid team. any team in this league, even tcu, is capable of putting a top-10 caliber team on the floor. but to sustain that success...year after year with the desired (demanded?) consistency...it's not happening.

Frank's final year was not the best team in school history. It was as thin a roster as Frank had put together since he had been here, still got to the tourney and finished in the top half of the league.
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: WildcatNation on February 21, 2015, 03:46:21 AM
I miss Frank :(
Title: Re: This site is a cancer to the success of this basketball team !
Post by: michigancat on February 21, 2015, 09:22:13 AM
Rake shoulda started a new thread!