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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: steve dave on December 31, 2014, 11:13:00 PM

Title: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: steve dave on December 31, 2014, 11:13:00 PM
Not why he shouldn't have been to begin with, I think we've covered that at length. But why he should remain as the coach. What's the upside? Convince me. Will move HUR HUR HUR posts to the pit so feel free to give actual arguments here.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: OK_Cat on December 31, 2014, 11:16:05 PM
It only takes a small stone to really get the ball rolling for an elite hoops school like ksu. Give him time!
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: chum1 on December 31, 2014, 11:21:25 PM
A conference championship should buy any coach a few years. If they prove they can do it once, give them a chance to make another run at it.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: steve dave on December 31, 2014, 11:23:58 PM
A conference championship should buy any coach a few years. If they prove they can do it once, give them a chance to make another run at it.

more like this
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on December 31, 2014, 11:26:28 PM
his overall lifetime win %. coaches are what they are and he is a proven winner.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: star seed 7 on December 31, 2014, 11:27:04 PM
A conference championship should buy any coach a few years. If they prove they can do it once, give them a chance to make another run at it.

more like this

Pretty much the only thing that can be posted
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: steve dave on December 31, 2014, 11:28:54 PM
pops brings it on GPC

K-State Dave
On full scholarship
Post #1051
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Re: Lets go Sunshine Pumpers !! Let us know how positive you're really feeling   Reply
I'm always very positive about K-State but you can not judge a coach by one season.  People please realize their is more than college basketball in life.  Many of you fans  act like this is the worst thing in the world that K-State men's basketball team is struggling!!!!!  Many people on social media or all about what you have done for me lately!  Sit back and enjoy life win or lose.  If fans are so obsessed about only winning than support the other K-State teams that are winning.  The women's team is winning, I enjoy watching and cheering for all K-State sports, win or lose.  But remember people this is only entertainment and pales in comparisson to real life drama!
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: CyberToothCat on December 31, 2014, 11:29:00 PM
In year one, we finished first.
In year two, we finished fifth.

We have been in the top half of the league in both of his seasons. As long as that remains true, oscar should still be our coach.

Unfortunately, it seems we are destined to watch as oscar literally takes us from first to worst. As soon that occurs, oscar should be canned.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: PIPE on December 31, 2014, 11:33:19 PM
No arguement can be made........ :Yuck:
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: wetwillie on December 31, 2014, 11:44:03 PM
We owe him a significant amount of money that would hinder us from replacing him with a suitable candidate. 
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: chum1 on January 01, 2015, 12:02:49 AM
One of the seemingly most accepted claims against him probably doesn't hold up against much scrutiny. Namely, the claim that he can only win with his predecessor's players. Apart from ascribing to him this extremely weird characteristic that there really isn't any generalized data on, and apart from the fact that a single supposed observation of this characteristic isn't enough to establish a trend, it seems like the claim is pretty obviously false. He finished second in the  Big Ten in his sixth year as coach of Illinois.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: chum1 on January 01, 2015, 12:06:32 AM
Which, by the way, is why I hate all of the "we knew this would happen" posts. That's just bullshit.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Trim on January 01, 2015, 12:13:05 AM
No wednesdays, yet.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: steve dave on January 01, 2015, 12:17:43 AM
chum doing good work ITT
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: slobber on January 01, 2015, 09:00:56 AM
None of the major financial contributors are asking to fire him. As long as the $'s are rolling in from them and they are content, then oscar is fine.


Gonna win 'em all!
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Cire on January 01, 2015, 09:13:01 AM
this team is struggling to find an identity.  If we had Angel we'd be awesome.  need one of the pg's to take over.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Watershed on January 01, 2015, 09:15:16 AM
I got nothing? I'm guessing if your making an argument you were cut from your JH JV BB team and have to ask questions during the game about what is really happening on the court.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Steffy08 on January 01, 2015, 09:24:04 AM
Because he was our coach to start this season, and it is now the middle of the season, and he hasn't feloned anybody.

This thread should be postponed until March.  Doing it now makes it seem like you want Weber to fail.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: catzacker on January 01, 2015, 09:30:19 AM
Which, by the way, is why I hate all of the "we knew this would happen" posts. That's just bullshit.

If we're observing data, we should be reminded that one data point does make a trend.  Rather, in this instance, the 2nd place finish represents an anomaly when we look at all the data as a whole.  The trend is apparent.  Win at a consistent level with other players, lose (relatively speaking) at a consistent level with his own.

2003–04 Illinois 26–7 13–3 1st
2004–05 Illinois 37–2 15–1 1st
2005–06 Illinois 26–7 11–5 T–2nd
2006–07 Illinois 23–12 9–7 T–4th
2007–08 Illinois 16–19 5–13 T–9th 
2008–09 Illinois 24–10 11–7 T–2nd
2009–10 Illinois 21–15 10–8 5th
2010–11 Illinois 20–14 9–9 T–4th
2011–12 Illinois 17–15 6–12 9th 

2012–13 Kansas State 27–8 14–4 T–1st
2013–14 Kansas State 20–13 10–8 5th


...but I apologize, my post wasn't really what this thread was for.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: michigancat on January 01, 2015, 09:32:11 AM
He brought Foster here
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 01, 2015, 09:46:51 AM
Because no one has brought a worth while replacement to the table that I've heard, besides one obvious guy and one never going to happen guy . . . and this is particularly the case for the resident Too Cool for Schoolers who throw out absurd choices simply because they think it would be cool and they can feel better about themselves.

K-State has made rash decisions with basketball before and it only served to keep the program mired in mediocrity for another 15 years.




Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: michigancat on January 01, 2015, 09:49:50 AM
Because no one has brought a worth while replacement to the table that I've heard, besides one obvious guy and one never going to happen guy . . . and this is particularly the case for the resident Too Cool for Schoolers who throw out absurd choices simply because they think it would be cool and they can feel better about themselves.

K-State has made rash decisions with basketball before and it only served to keep the program mired in mediocrity for another 15 years.
Yeah, I really don't have a good replacement in mind.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 01, 2015, 09:59:52 AM
I know this isn't really the thread for it, but what I saw yesterday was not an effort issue.

It's like our offensive engine is out of gas, the output has fallen off a cliff, and this team from my observation has some attitudinal problems and from my observation they begin with Marcus Foster.   But it's the guy running the show's job to get that straightened out, so that's why Brucescuses fall on deaf ears. 

Also, oscar needs to sit the rough ridin down and quit micro-managing every freaking second of the game, I personally think that's part of the problem right there.   



Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: chum1 on January 01, 2015, 10:02:07 AM
Which, by the way, is why I hate all of the "we knew this would happen" posts. That's just bullshit.

If we're observing data, we should be reminded that one data point does make a trend.  Rather, in this instance, the 2nd place finish represents an anomaly when we look at all the data as a whole.  The trend is apparent.  Win at a consistent level with other players, lose (relatively speaking) at a consistent level with his own.

2003–04 Illinois 26–7 13–3 1st
2004–05 Illinois 37–2 15–1 1st
2005–06 Illinois 26–7 11–5 T–2nd
2006–07 Illinois 23–12 9–7 T–4th
2007–08 Illinois 16–19 5–13 T–9th 
2008–09 Illinois 24–10 11–7 T–2nd
2009–10 Illinois 21–15 10–8 5th
2010–11 Illinois 20–14 9–9 T–4th
2011–12 Illinois 17–15 6–12 9th 

2012–13 Kansas State 27–8 14–4 T–1st
2013–14 Kansas State 20–13 10–8 5th


...but I apologize, my post wasn't really what this thread was for.

Without exception, all coaches have ups and downs. Sitting around and waiting for a down season to say, "See, this coach sucks!" is utterly meaningless. The part about winning with another coach's players is some superfluous narrative that has nothing whatsoever to do with data in this case.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 01, 2015, 10:04:53 AM
Because it's January, no coach has ever been fired from college ball in Jan
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: SdK on January 01, 2015, 10:08:24 AM
Chum1 posts well.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: catzacker on January 01, 2015, 10:15:44 AM
Which, by the way, is why I hate all of the "we knew this would happen" posts. That's just bullshit.

If we're observing data, we should be reminded that one data point does make a trend.  Rather, in this instance, the 2nd place finish represents an anomaly when we look at all the data as a whole.  The trend is apparent.  Win at a consistent level with other players, lose (relatively speaking) at a consistent level with his own.

2003–04 Illinois 26–7 13–3 1st
2004–05 Illinois 37–2 15–1 1st
2005–06 Illinois 26–7 11–5 T–2nd
2006–07 Illinois 23–12 9–7 T–4th
2007–08 Illinois 16–19 5–13 T–9th 
2008–09 Illinois 24–10 11–7 T–2nd
2009–10 Illinois 21–15 10–8 5th
2010–11 Illinois 20–14 9–9 T–4th
2011–12 Illinois 17–15 6–12 9th 

2012–13 Kansas State 27–8 14–4 T–1st
2013–14 Kansas State 20–13 10–8 5th


...but I apologize, my post wasn't really what this thread was for.

Without exception, all coaches have ups and downs. Sitting around and waiting for a down season to say, "See, this coach sucks!" is utterly meaningless. The part about winning with another coach's players is some superfluous narrative that has nothing whatsoever to do with data in this case.

he won at a high level (1st, 1st, 2nd, ....4th) with a roster that wasn't his.  He couldn't/hasn't recreated that 3-4yr period....ever.  He won with a roster that was not his at a high level (1st) and then it looks like the next 2 years he won't recreate that.  But I guess we can wait around for his 2nd place finish in 3years.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: catzacker on January 01, 2015, 10:17:41 AM
But to be honest, maybe his record is what our program is.  Ouch.  That's a tough one to type/admit.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 01, 2015, 10:23:55 AM
Which, by the way, is why I hate all of the "we knew this would happen" posts. That's just bullshit.

I don't get this, many said he would begin losing at this point, and he is.  Badly.  Are you saying the numbers don't show this and that prediction is just playing out due to pure chance?
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Pete on January 01, 2015, 10:32:50 AM
Which, by the way, is why I hate all of the "we knew this would happen" posts. That's just bullshit.

If we're observing data, we should be reminded that one data point does make a trend.  Rather, in this instance, the 2nd place finish represents an anomaly when we look at all the data as a whole.  The trend is apparent.  Win at a consistent level with other players, lose (relatively speaking) at a consistent level with his own.

2003–04 Illinois 26–7 13–3 1st
2004–05 Illinois 37–2 15–1 1st
2005–06 Illinois 26–7 11–5 T–2nd
2006–07 Illinois 23–12 9–7 T–4th
2007–08 Illinois 16–19 5–13 T–9th 
2008–09 Illinois 24–10 11–7 T–2nd
2009–10 Illinois 21–15 10–8 5th
2010–11 Illinois 20–14 9–9 T–4th
2011–12 Illinois 17–15 6–12 9th 

2012–13 Kansas State 27–8 14–4 T–1st
2013–14 Kansas State 20–13 10–8 5th


...but I apologize, my post wasn't really what this thread was for.

Without exception, all coaches have ups and downs. Sitting around and waiting for a down season to say, "See, this coach sucks!" is utterly meaningless. The part about winning with another coach's players is some superfluous narrative that has nothing whatsoever to do with data in this case.

What the eff are you talking about? 
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Pete on January 01, 2015, 10:35:54 AM
Which, by the way, is why I hate all of the "we knew this would happen" posts. That's just bullshit.

I don't get this, many said he would begin losing at this point, and he is.  Badly.  Are you saying the numbers don't show this and that prediction is just playing out due to pure chance?

That must be what Chum is saying.  I mean, we said a thing, and then that thing happened, really no confusion there.    I guess he thinks oscar Weber did well at Illinois because of his fluke good 2nd place season, wedged in with his bad seasons.  That would differ from what I believe and almost every Illinois fan in the world, but free country.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Steffy08 on January 01, 2015, 10:36:10 AM
I know this isn't really the thread for it, but what I saw yesterday was not an effort issue.

It's like our offensive engine is out of gas, the output has fallen off a cliff, and this team from my observation has some attitudinal problems and from my observation they begin with Marcus Foster.   But it's the guy running the show's job to get that straightened out, so that's why Brucescuses fall on deaf ears. 

Also, oscar needs to sit the rough ridin down and quit micro-managing every freaking second of the game, I personally think that's part of the problem right there.   

Agree 100%.

There have been times when effort was the problem, but not yesterday.

Foster's attitude has been bad all year.  But that is Weber's problem/fault.  I'm glad he benched Foster yesterday, but I doubt that will result in any change.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: ChiComCat on January 01, 2015, 10:37:36 AM
Weber is about to overcome so much adversity you guys, just you wait and see.  He is just letting it pile up so he can put you dumbasses in your place
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Pete on January 01, 2015, 10:38:54 AM
In the spirit of the original intent of this thread, I'd say that you can't just fire a guy for being an incredible awkward doltish man that makes you cringe with every breath he takes.  It's about performance. 
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Steffy08 on January 01, 2015, 10:39:37 AM
Which, by the way, is why I hate all of the "we knew this would happen" posts. That's just bullshit.

I don't get this, many said he would begin losing at this point, and he is.  Badly.  Are you saying the numbers don't show this and that prediction is just playing out due to pure chance?

That must be what Chum is saying.  I mean, we said a thing, and then that thing happened, really no confusion there.    I guess he thinks oscar Weber did well at Illinois because of his fluke good 2nd place season, wedged in with his bad seasons.  That would differ from what I believe and almost every Illinois fan in the world, but free country.

This conversation is premature, but I would like to chime in and note that 11-7 is a good, but not great, conference record.  The fact that it was good for second doesn't make it thàt much better.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: michigancat on January 01, 2015, 10:46:35 AM
Another reason: we hired him and really had a pretty good idea of what we were getting into. He had several seasons comparable to this at Illinois. While I didn't exactly expect this particular season to go this way, I'm not surprised, either. Basically, this is what we signed up for, so why not just ride it out as long as possible?
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Pete on January 01, 2015, 10:49:25 AM
Another reason: we hired him and really had a pretty good idea of what we were getting into. He had several seasons comparable to this at Illinois. While I didn't exactly expect this particular season to go this way, I'm not surprised, either. Basically, this is what we signed up for, so why not just ride it out as long as possible?

Oh that's a good one too. 
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: chum1 on January 01, 2015, 10:51:04 AM
This is the essence of what I'm saying.

Things supported by data: oscar trends downward at Illinois. Things not supported by data, but by conjecture or gut feeling or whatever: oscar trends downward at Kansas State.

Just because I guess the correct lottery numbers doesn't rough ridin' mean that I had a reliable method for doing so even if I believe that I did.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Mr Bread on January 01, 2015, 10:53:45 AM
oh chum1
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: ksupamplemousse on January 01, 2015, 10:55:47 AM
Yes, predicting someone to have relatively similar results as they did in their last job is basically like playing your kid's birthday numbers in the lotto. Makes sense  :blank:
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: chum1 on January 01, 2015, 10:58:58 AM
I'd love for someone to explain to me how a downward trend at Kansas State is supported by data.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 01, 2015, 11:02:14 AM
This is the essence of what I'm saying.

Things supported by data: oscar trends downward at Illinois. Things not supported by data, but by conjecture or gut feeling or whatever: oscar trends downward at Kansas State.

Just because I guess the correct lottery numbers doesn't rough ridin' mean that I had a reliable method for doing so even if I believe that I did.

Wait, what?

oscar is trending down big time at Kstate
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: CHONGS on January 01, 2015, 11:03:00 AM
I'd love for someone to explain to me how a downward trend at Kansas State is supported by data.
You make a valid point.

How many data points would you think are needed?  I agree that two is too little, but three might be enough to give the sense of a trend (if the trend is mostly linear).
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: chum1 on January 01, 2015, 11:05:44 AM
This is the essence of what I'm saying.

Things supported by data: oscar trends downward at Illinois. Things not supported by data, but by conjecture or gut feeling or whatever: oscar trends downward at Kansas State.

Just because I guess the correct lottery numbers doesn't rough ridin' mean that I had a reliable method for doing so even if I believe that I did.

Wait, what?

oscar is trending down big time at Kstate

If, IF, at the end of his career, he has trended downward, it wouldn't have been supported by data!
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: chum1 on January 01, 2015, 11:07:45 AM
I'd love for someone to explain to me how a downward trend at Kansas State is supported by data.
You make a valid point.

How many data points would you think are needed?  I agree that two is too little, but three might be enough to give the sense of a trend (if the trend is mostly linear).

I was hoping you might come! Yeah, I think three is always a good rule of thumb number.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: ChiComCat on January 01, 2015, 11:10:27 AM
2013/14: Adversity is to oscar overcoming it
2014/15: A shitload of adversity is to oscar overcoming it by a shitload.

He is about to win out this season
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: CHONGS on January 01, 2015, 11:13:40 AM
I'd love for someone to explain to me how a downward trend at Kansas State is supported by data.
You make a valid point.

How many data points would you think are needed?  I agree that two is too little, but three might be enough to give the sense of a trend (if the trend is mostly linear).

I was hoping you might come! Yeah, I think three is always a good rule of thumb number.
If (and it is a big if), this season continues at it currently has then at the end of the year I think there is a trend of getting worse.  Would you agree with that?
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: chum1 on January 01, 2015, 11:26:14 AM
I'd love for someone to explain to me how a downward trend at Kansas State is supported by data.
You make a valid point.

How many data points would you think are needed?  I agree that two is too little, but three might be enough to give the sense of a trend (if the trend is mostly linear).

I was hoping you might come! Yeah, I think three is always a good rule of thumb number.
If (and it is a big if), this season continues at it currently has then at the end of the year I think there is a trend of getting worse.  Would you agree with that?

Let's just say he finishes his time at Kansas State with a downward trend. Then, we have two downward trend per school data points: one from his time at Illinois and one from his time at Kansas State.

Why look at downward trend per school? Ask the "other coach's recruits" people.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: michigancat on January 01, 2015, 11:27:47 AM
LOL
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Trim on January 01, 2015, 11:31:29 AM
With all the construction and office displacement going on, do we even have a place for a firing presser with his nuclear family in tears offset from the podium?
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: EMAWzified on January 01, 2015, 11:37:46 AM
Gene Keady would hate use.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: chum1 on January 01, 2015, 11:38:55 AM
LOL

It's essentially what they're saying, right?
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: CNS on January 01, 2015, 11:46:11 AM
Holiday Inn has conf rooms.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: dal9 on January 01, 2015, 11:46:54 AM
He cant help his players are fat
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: dal9 on January 01, 2015, 11:49:34 AM
altho now I think about it Mcamey was a chubby little bastard too and D-Will is now superfat

maybe cut back team froyo nights to a few times a week

Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Mr Bread on January 01, 2015, 11:50:41 AM
He cant help his players are fat

He hired the strength coach you rough ridin' dunce.  Who is a huge fatass pos himself.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: ChiComCat on January 01, 2015, 11:51:42 AM
With all the construction and office displacement going on, do we even have a place for a firing presser with his nuclear family in tears offset from the podium?

Due to space constraints, they will do the presser and have to live stream his crying family next to him on a TV
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Mr Bread on January 01, 2015, 11:53:33 AM
altho now I think about it Mcamey was a chubby little bastard too and D-Will is now superfat

maybe cut back team froyo nights to a few times a week

A hearty LOL in your bitchface talking smack about high major basketball players' fitness.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: CHONGS on January 01, 2015, 11:54:16 AM
I'd love for someone to explain to me how a downward trend at Kansas State is supported by data.
You make a valid point.

How many data points would you think are needed?  I agree that two is too little, but three might be enough to give the sense of a trend (if the trend is mostly linear).

I was hoping you might come! Yeah, I think three is always a good rule of thumb number.
If (and it is a big if), this season continues at it currently has then at the end of the year I think there is a trend of getting worse.  Would you agree with that?

Let's just say he finishes his time at Kansas State with a downward trend. Then, we have two downward trend per school data points: one from his time at Illinois and one from his time at Kansas State.

Why look at downward trend per school? Ask the "other coach's recruits" people.
I suppose one could see the sense in that.  Yes failing at KSU would not "prove" that oscar always will run a major team into the ground.  It would indeed be only two "data points" for succeeding only with other coach's players.   :dunno:

I don't remember most being this cautious with Prince, but then again it was a long time ago and people change.



Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: EMAWzified on January 01, 2015, 11:54:50 AM
Why look at downward trend per school? Ask the "other coaches' recruits" people

Not to be a grammar nazi, but it's an worthwhile distinction in this case
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: slobber on January 01, 2015, 11:56:18 AM
@steve dave : It's a documented fact that I have a huge man crush on you. This type of thread is why. Wow.


Gonna win 'em all!
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Trim on January 01, 2015, 12:00:38 PM
With all the construction and office displacement going on, do we even have a place for a firing presser with his nuclear family in tears offset from the podium?

Due to space constraints, they will do the presser and have to live stream his crying family next to him on a TV

Well, the space up by the sinks in the concourse is already reserved for rally'rs and protest'rs.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: chum1 on January 01, 2015, 12:00:55 PM
Why look at downward trend per school? Ask the "other coaches' recruits" people

Not to be a grammar nazi, but it's an worthwhile distinction in this case

I don't see why you couldn't use either.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 01, 2015, 12:01:31 PM
This is the essence of what I'm saying.

Things supported by data: oscar trends downward at Illinois. Things not supported by data, but by conjecture or gut feeling or whatever: oscar trends downward at Kansas State.

Just because I guess the correct lottery numbers doesn't rough ridin' mean that I had a reliable method for doing so even if I believe that I did.

Wait, what?

oscar is trending down big time at Kstate

If, IF, at the end of his career, he has trended downward, it wouldn't have been supported by data!

I will have to be content with being 100% on my prediction.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: chum1 on January 01, 2015, 12:09:21 PM
I'd love for someone to explain to me how a downward trend at Kansas State is supported by data.
You make a valid point.

How many data points would you think are needed?  I agree that two is too little, but three might be enough to give the sense of a trend (if the trend is mostly linear).

I was hoping you might come! Yeah, I think three is always a good rule of thumb number.
If (and it is a big if), this season continues at it currently has then at the end of the year I think there is a trend of getting worse.  Would you agree with that?

Let's just say he finishes his time at Kansas State with a downward trend. Then, we have two downward trend per school data points: one from his time at Illinois and one from his time at Kansas State.

Why look at downward trend per school? Ask the "other coach's recruits" people.
I suppose one could see the sense in that.  Yes failing at KSU would not "prove" that oscar always will run a major team into the ground.  It would indeed be only two "data points" for succeeding only with other coach's players.   :dunno:

I don't remember most being this cautious with Prince, but then again it was a long time ago and people change.

Data is data. No need for scare quotes.

I'm just responding to people who seem to be sure that oscar will trend downward here by saying that they're not actually being all that rigorous in drawing that conclusion.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 01, 2015, 12:11:23 PM
I'd be happy to bet.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 01, 2015, 12:17:14 PM
But I get what you are saying as it relates to his tenure at Kstate

Basically the data from his time at Kstate is that he will finish in the top 3
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: EMAWzified on January 01, 2015, 12:48:03 PM
It's rare that there are multiple downward data references for coaches at a high level in college athletics. That's what made Currie's Dallas fever dream and the Charlie Weis hire so puzzling to begin with.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Ghost of Stan Parrish on January 02, 2015, 11:01:08 AM
Come on, Weber has coached at three schools and one resulted in an upward trend. I know it's a Mo Valley school, but still.

This is his career:

1998–99    Southern Illinois    15–12    10–8    T–5th    
1999–00    Southern Illinois    20–13    12–6    3rd    NIT Second Round
2000–01    Southern Illinois    16–14    10–8    T–4th    
2001–02    Southern Illinois    28–8    14–4    T–1st    NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2002–03    Southern Illinois    24–7    16–2    1st    NCAA First Round
Southern Illinois:    103–54 (.656)    62–28 (.689)

Illinois Fighting Illini (Big Ten Conference) (2003–2012)
2003–04    Illinois    26–7    13–3    1st    NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2004–05    Illinois    37–2    15–1    1st    NCAA Runner–up
2005–06    Illinois    26–7    11–5    T–2nd    NCAA Second Round
2006–07    Illinois    23–12    9–7    T–4th    NCAA First Round
2007–08    Illinois    16–19    5–13    T–9th    
2008–09    Illinois    24–10    11–7    T–2nd    NCAA First Round
2009–10    Illinois    21–15    10–8    5th    NIT Quarterfinals
2010–11    Illinois    20–14    9–9    T–4th    NCAA Third Round
2011–12    Illinois    17–15    6–12    9th    
Illinois:    210–101 (.675)    89–65 (.578)

Kansas State Wildcats (Big 12 Conference) (2012–present)
2012–13    Kansas State    27–8    14–4    T–1st    NCAA Second Round
2013–14    Kansas State    20–13    10–8    5th    NCAA Second Round
2014–15    Kansas State    7–6    0–0
   
The biggest outlier years were the terrible teams of 2007-08 and 2011-12, and he's otherwise been pretty damn solid to pretty damn great. The 2011-12 season is partly explained by the fact he was obviously done at Illinois and the he totally lost his team. That leaves one unexplained bad data point. That's why I thought the whole hue and cry about him being a loser coach was stupid, irrational and unsupported by data. He might be awkward and an unsexy hire, but he wins.

But I'm at a total loss as to why this team is so horrible. We are obviously going to finish with a losing record (only happened once before in his career) and will likely be oscar's worst team ever.

Still, given his 17-season track record of evidence to the contrary, I think it's crazy to have predicted KSU would be horrible this year, and chum's example of winning the lottery is appropriate. I'm just totally blown away by how bad we are.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: CHONGS on January 02, 2015, 11:26:04 AM

The biggest outlier years were the terrible teams of 2007-08 and 2011-12, and he's otherwise been pretty damn solid to pretty damn great. The 2011-12 season is partly explained by the fact he was obviously done at Illinois and the he totally lost his team. That leaves one unexplained bad data point. That's why I thought the whole hue and cry about him being a loser coach was stupid, irrational and unsupported by data. He might be awkward and an unsexy hire, but he wins.
OK, but if 2007-08 is an outlier than so is 2004-05 (in fact it is even more so).  Remove those two seasons and tell me there still isn't a downward trend.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: GregKSU1027 on January 02, 2015, 11:31:58 AM
Didn't he win like big 12 honors or something last year. That's something.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: michigancat on January 02, 2015, 11:37:26 AM
Still, given his 17-season track record of evidence to the contrary, I think it's crazy to have predicted KSU would be horrible this year, and chum's example of winning the lottery is appropriate. I'm just totally blown away by how bad we are.

I'm still not sure we'll finish as bad as those two random horrible seasons at Illinois, but the fact that those two seasons existed (with pretty decent rosters that he assembled), our results this year, although unexpected, shouldn't come as a huge shock.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: _33 on January 02, 2015, 11:42:54 AM
oscar Weber should remain our head coach because who cares anyway.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on January 02, 2015, 11:46:29 AM
We owe him a significant amount of money that would hinder us from replacing him with a suitable candidate.
This.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: EMAWican on January 02, 2015, 11:56:50 AM
oscar Weber has already broken/set records, and has a high probability to break several historic records at K-State this year. #recordbreaker
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: purpyslurpy on January 02, 2015, 01:09:07 PM
Which, by the way, is why I hate all of the "we knew this would happen" posts. That's just bullshit.

If we're observing data, we should be reminded that one data point does make a trend.  Rather, in this instance, the 2nd place finish represents an anomaly when we look at all the data as a whole.  The trend is apparent.  Win at a consistent level with other players, lose (relatively speaking) at a consistent level with his own.

2003–04 Illinois 26–7 13–3 1st
2004–05 Illinois 37–2 15–1 1st
2005–06 Illinois 26–7 11–5 T–2nd
2006–07 Illinois 23–12 9–7 T–4th
2007–08 Illinois 16–19 5–13 T–9th 
2008–09 Illinois 24–10 11–7 T–2nd
2009–10 Illinois 21–15 10–8 5th
2010–11 Illinois 20–14 9–9 T–4th
2011–12 Illinois 17–15 6–12 9th 

2012–13 Kansas State 27–8 14–4 T–1st
2013–14 Kansas State 20–13 10–8 5th


...but I apologize, my post wasn't really what this thread was for.

What about at SIU where he actually did better at the end of his tenure?
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: renocat on January 02, 2015, 01:28:10 PM
If he can avoid a 1st half like the one against Georgia and he starts  Tre at point guard.  Also sit Foster until his attitude changes.  As you can tell I am torqued off.  Blind spastics could play better - this is q coaching thing.  Is the offense too complicated?  If so, scrape it like Martin did with his crap offense whenhis coaches rrecommended it.  I am not totally on the bandwagon to dump coaches,  but I am checking when it might go through Reno Co.   I hope I will have a reason to flip the bandwagon driver a bird, but I am getting discourage especially with high hopes at the start of the season.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: CNS on January 02, 2015, 01:33:04 PM
I wish foster would show more attitude.   I would love for him to tell the world he will not play in the NIT or the CBI.  I would love for him to continually jack threes and say something to the effect of fOOD being his "mother rough rider house".

Some of our fans have selective memories.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: mocat on January 02, 2015, 02:26:39 PM
oscar's situation is a lot like Adnan's. i mean if it's not him, who is it?
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: michigancat on January 02, 2015, 02:35:33 PM
oscar's situation is a lot like Adnan's. i mean if it's not him, who is it?
haha
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: michigancat on January 02, 2015, 02:36:27 PM
I wish foster would show more attitude.   I would love for him to tell the world he will not play in the NIT or the CBI.  I would love for him to continually jack threes and say something to the effect of fOOD being his "mother rough rider house".

Some of our fans have selective memories.
Who can forget "YOU ARE THE MOST SELFISH MOTHER rough rider I'VE EVER COACHED" or something at Oregon
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: CNS on January 02, 2015, 03:52:52 PM
Yes.  Also, I don't remember Jake ever being benched to the tune of a crap loss. 
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on January 02, 2015, 10:08:52 PM
He should be coach because he probably over achieved years 1 and 2. Year 3 has been an unabated disaster and negates 1 and 2 unless promptly corrected. If year 4 isn't at least respectable (22 wins) his ass should be canned. But kstate isn't canning a guy who wins 21 games, thus the conundrum.

I personally don't like how he doesn't seem to care when our players make mind numbingly stupid plays that you would scold a 4th grader for, so I'd have canned him yesterday.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: puniraptor on January 02, 2015, 10:41:47 PM
His suits are cut pretty well
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: BWebbs0 on January 02, 2015, 11:03:37 PM
Because I'm a Cat fan and I don't know any better.

That's why! :runaway:
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Stevesie60 on January 03, 2015, 10:31:25 AM
Has oscar ever drawn up a good play in a close game with only a couple possessions left? Only one I can think of is 2013 @Baylor.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: michigancat on January 03, 2015, 10:33:02 AM
Has oscar ever drawn up a good play in a close game with only a couple possessions left? Only one I can think of is 2013 @Baylor.
Most coaches are bad at this
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Stevesie60 on January 03, 2015, 10:43:42 AM
Has oscar ever drawn up a good play in a close game with only a couple possessions left? Only one I can think of is 2013 @Baylor.
Most coaches are bad at this

I guess I can see that. Or at least understand why people would perceive that, since you'd have, on average, what a 40% chance of hitting a 2-pt shot and 33% chance of hitting a 3-pt shot on any given possession that you even get a shot off. Not to mention if you draw it up during a timeout then the other team has also had a timeout to draw up what they want to do on defense. But I feel like everytime we draw up, it's significantly worse than our average play. Look at our last three possessions of Georgia, La Salle, and obviously Texas Southern. One ended in Tre Harris driving toward the basket when I have zero recollection of him taking a shot less than 15 feet long prior to that possession.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: michigancat on January 03, 2015, 10:53:03 AM
Has oscar ever drawn up a good play in a close game with only a couple possessions left? Only one I can think of is 2013 @Baylor.
Most coaches are bad at this

I guess I can see that. Or at least understand why people would perceive that, since you'd have, on average, what a 40% chance of hitting a 2-pt shot and 33% chance of hitting a 3-pt shot on any given possession that you even get a shot off. Not to mention if you draw it up during a timeout then the other team has also had a timeout to draw up what they want to do on defense. But I feel like everytime we draw up, it's significantly worse than our average play. Look at our last three possessions of Georgia, La Salle, and obviously Texas Southern. One ended in Tre Harris driving toward the basket when I have zero recollection of him taking a shot less than 15 feet long prior to that possession.

Yeah I think this is pretty common for most coaches. One thing that makes these possessions more difficult is that they are inevitably shorter and thus more difficult than a regular full possession. I'm a big fan of just giving your best player the ball, maybe setting a screen, and asking them to make a play.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: SdK on January 03, 2015, 12:07:55 PM
I wish foster would show more attitude.   I would love for him to tell the world he will not play in the NIT or the CBI.  I would love for him to continually jack threes and say something to the effect of fOOD being his "mother rough rider house".

Some of our fans have selective memories.
He needs to say crap like this. That's puts me in the shitty tude camp. If he had this attitude and said that crap. It would look better to me.

I miss Pullen and want more guys like him.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: PowercatPat on January 03, 2015, 12:31:03 PM
I can't think of one single argument.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: EMAWzified on January 03, 2015, 12:37:31 PM
He had the lead at half at Stillwater
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 03, 2015, 12:57:19 PM
My completely unsupported random prediction looks pretty good!  Yay pure chance!
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: michigancat on January 03, 2015, 01:04:20 PM
Foster's shitty attitude should buy him at least two more years
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: CHONGS on January 03, 2015, 01:19:21 PM
Foster's shitty attitude should buy him at least two more years
Yep, oscar is very smart.  Losses from now on actually strengthen his position. Losing out will make him a hero who took a stand against today's entitled athletes.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: michigancat on January 03, 2015, 01:22:10 PM
His players don't like playing hard, tough to win with players like that
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Kat Kid on January 03, 2015, 01:23:31 PM
I don't think this is fun at all.  I hate this feeling.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on January 03, 2015, 01:25:49 PM
Be forewarned, if I catch anyone making a case for oscar, I'll reach through the interwebs and strangle your throat to death

 :curse:
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: yoman on January 03, 2015, 01:26:38 PM
His players don't like playing hard, tough to win with players like that

This was about the second stupidest talking point in post game second only to Stan's mom's cooking.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Trim on January 03, 2015, 01:30:26 PM
I don't think this is fun at all.  I hate this feeling.

You need a better attitude.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: ednksu on January 03, 2015, 01:32:27 PM
His players don't like playing hard, tough to win with players like that

This was about the second stupidest talking point in post game second only to Stan's mom's cooking.
you should tell oscar that because that is exactly what he said in post game.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: PowercatPat on January 03, 2015, 02:04:16 PM
His players don't like playing hard, tough to win with players like that

This was about the second stupidest talking point in post game second only to Stan's mom's cooking.
you should tell oscar that because that is exactly what he said in post game.

He should stop recruiting huge pussies then.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Trim on January 04, 2015, 02:51:11 PM
If oscar remains for now, currie can't choose the replacement.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: kso_FAN on January 04, 2015, 02:55:30 PM
This season has a significant pair of statistical anomalies.

Its very unlikely he'll have his worst TO% team (on offense) and his worst eFG% team (on defense) in the same year ever again. OFF TO% is over 3% worse and eFG% DEF is over 6% worse than oscar's average in 11 other power conference seasons.
Title: Re: Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT
Post by: Trim on February 12, 2015, 12:22:54 AM
K-State basketball will likely be set back further if Schulz and Currie select the next coach than riding it out with oscar until their replacements can fire oscar and hire a new guy.