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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: dlineguyz on December 02, 2013, 02:04:30 PM
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Would we all be excited? I would still want Daniel but at least we would have more to look forward to. By the time Jake is good he will be gone, assuming he becomes good. He just seems to get ice cold at times and we let him play through it. Daniel never gets to play through any mistakes. YES I'm MAD. YES I'm pro LIFE
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Would we all be excited? I would still want Daniel but at least we would have more to look forward to. By the time Jake is good he will be gone, assuming he becomes good. He just seems to get ice cold at times and we let him play through it. Daniel never gets to play through any mistakes. YES I'm MAD. YES I'm pro LIFE
not with Daniel sitting there not getting the snaps he deserves.
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Can you imagine Daniel on the zone read on saturday with the way hubert was running? he would've gone for 200 easy
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Would we all be excited? I would still want Daniel but at least we would have more to look forward to. By the time Jake is good he will be gone, assuming he becomes good. He just seems to get ice cold at times and we let him play through it. Daniel never gets to play through any mistakes. YES I'm MAD. YES I'm pro LIFE
id appreciate that he was good enough to be a starter as a freshman for bill, i am just as confused as to why #ourguy hasnt played much the last two weeks but he did this with klein to an extent and i expect daniel to be the starter next year with bill knowing this was a reloading year
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If Jake was a Frosh and could play how he does now, I would be ecstatic.
He also would be on the bench.
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No, absolutely not. Pocket passers haven't really worked in a KSU offense since the mid 90s when we had really good defenses, and we don't have really good defenses. This year could have easily been a 9 win year. Josh Freeman was probably the most talented passer we've ever had(Ron P I know) and he still won 6 or 7 games, and our fanbase should expect a lot better than that. Unless we start getting elite defensive recruits on a consistent basis, then we should stick with dual threats.
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Can you imagine Daniel on the zone read on saturday with the way hubert was running? he would've gone for 200 easy
They were putting an additional one or two players in the box for the four plays Daniel was in. Unless they were going to let him throw, I doubt it, and I'm one of the biggest #Life homers there is.
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id appreciate that he was good enough to be a starter as a freshman for bill, i am just as confused as to why #ourguy hasnt played much the last two weeks but he did this with klein to an extent and i expect daniel to be the starter next year with bill knowing this was a reloading year
This^
From what I've heard the staff has been eying 2014 as a special year. Probably bullshit, but hope it's true and Snyd's is just keeping #life from getting spaghetti brains in a rebuilding year.
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id appreciate that he was good enough to be a starter as a freshman for bill, i am just as confused as to why #ourguy hasnt played much the last two weeks but he did this with klein to an extent and i expect daniel to be the starter next year with bill knowing this was a reloading year
This^
From what I've heard the staff has been eying 2014 as a special year. Probably bullshit, but hope it's true and Snyd's is just keeping #life from getting spaghetti brains in a rebuilding year.
Our defense could actually be good in 2014, with Sams starting, could be a 9-11 win season with 2015 being as good or maybe better.
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no, because he doesn't throw the ball very well
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Would we all be excited? I would still want Daniel but at least we would have more to look forward to. By the time Jake is good he will be gone, assuming he becomes good. He just seems to get ice cold at times and we let him play through it. Daniel never gets to play through any mistakes. YES I'm MAD. YES I'm pro LIFE
id appreciate that he was good enough to be a starter as a freshman for bill, i am just as confused as to why #ourguy hasnt played much the last two weeks but he did this with klein to an extent and i expect daniel to be the starter next year with bill knowing this was a reloading year
I want to believe this.......I really do.
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Regardless of the QB, the offense this year was effective and efficient, averaging 6.3 yards per play and .52 points per play (both of which are Top 20 in the country). The schedule wasn't murder's row, but that was still against four Top 40 defenses.
The biggest problem was the offense turned the ball over too much; the Cats turned it over 3.14% of the time on offense. Both QBs had issues here; Waters finished by throwing INTs on 3.9% of his attempts. Sams threw INTs on 7.7% of his attempts. Waters fumbled on 3.8% of his carries and Sams fumbled on 2.0% of his carries.
FWIW, K-State is still in the Top 25 in TOP nationally.
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Would we all be excited? I would still want Daniel but at least we would have more to look forward to. By the time Jake is good he will be gone, assuming he becomes good. He just seems to get ice cold at times and we let him play through it. Daniel never gets to play through any mistakes. YES I'm MAD. YES I'm pro LIFE
id appreciate that he was good enough to be a starter as a freshman for bill, i am just as confused as to why #ourguy hasnt played much the last two weeks but he did this with klein to an extent and i expect daniel to be the starter next year with bill knowing this was a reloading year
I want to believe this.......I really do.
not to mention we had a top 25 defense this year which baffles me
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Regardless of the QB, the offense this year was effective and efficient, averaging 6.3 yards per play and .52 points per play (both of which are Top 20 in the country). The schedule wasn't murder's row, but that was still against four Top 40 defenses.
The biggest problem was the offense turned the ball over too much; the Cats turned it over 3.14% of the time on offense. Both QBs had issues here; Waters finished by throwing INTs on 3.9% of his attempts. Sams threw INTs on 7.7% of his attempts. Waters fumbled on 3.8% of his carries and Sams fumbled on 2.0% of his carries.
FWIW, K-State is still in the Top 25 in TOP nationally.
What about 3 and outs? Or drives that resulted in TDs? Serious questions btw.
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No, absolutely not. Pocket passers haven't really worked in a KSU offense since the mid 90s when we had really good defenses, and we don't have really good defenses. This year could have easily been a 9 win year. Josh Freeman was probably the most talented passer we've ever had(Ron P I know) and he still won 6 or 7 games, and our fanbase should expect a lot better than that. Unless we start getting elite defensive recruits on a consistent basis, then we should stick with dual threats.
JFC
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No, absolutely not. Pocket passers haven't really worked in a KSU offense since the mid 90s when we had really good defenses, and we don't have really good defenses. This year could have easily been a 9 win year. Josh Freeman was probably the most talented passer we've ever had(Ron P I know) and he still won 6 or 7 games, and our fanbase should expect a lot better than that. Unless we start getting elite defensive recruits on a consistent basis, then we should stick with dual threats.
JFC
Freeman, Coffman, Meier, Dunn, Waters all won tons of games, right? Then you have Kavanaugh, Miller, and May who actually won and were good QBs but all haven't played since the mid 90s.
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Regardless of the QB, the offense this year was effective and efficient, averaging 6.3 yards per play and .52 points per play (both of which are Top 20 in the country). The schedule wasn't murder's row, but that was still against four Top 40 defenses.
The biggest problem was the offense turned the ball over too much; the Cats turned it over 3.14% of the time on offense. Both QBs had issues here; Waters finished by throwing INTs on 3.9% of his attempts. Sams threw INTs on 7.7% of his attempts. Waters fumbled on 3.8% of his carries and Sams fumbled on 2.0% of his carries.
FWIW, K-State is still in the Top 25 in TOP nationally.
What about 3 and outs? Or drives that resulted in TDs? Serious questions btw.
Yeah. When most of our offense comes from big plays, with next to nothing in between, those advanced stats are going to make us look a lot better than we really are. There has been no consistency in our offense all year, except for when Sams is taking the snaps, and it has cost us games.
It's not about turnovers. It's about field position and having more positive outcomes offensively than negative outcomes and we have not done that.
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Regardless of the QB, the offense this year was effective and efficient, averaging 6.3 yards per play and .52 points per play (both of which are Top 20 in the country). The schedule wasn't murder's row, but that was still against four Top 40 defenses.
The biggest problem was the offense turned the ball over too much; the Cats turned it over 3.14% of the time on offense. Both QBs had issues here; Waters finished by throwing INTs on 3.9% of his attempts. Sams threw INTs on 7.7% of his attempts. Waters fumbled on 3.8% of his carries and Sams fumbled on 2.0% of his carries.
FWIW, K-State is still in the Top 25 in TOP nationally.
What about 3 and outs? Or drives that resulted in TDs? Serious questions btw.
Yeah. When most of our offense comes from big plays, with next to nothing in between, those advanced stats are going to make us look a lot better than we really are. There has been no consistency in our offense all year, except for when Sams is taking the snaps, and it has cost us games.
It's not about turnovers. It's about field position and having more positive outcomes offensively than negative outcomes and we have not done that.
Remember when _FENCE made this? The Punt and 3 and Out numbers are simply terrifying:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg96.imageshack.us%2Fimg96%2F2610%2F6lo6.png&hash=efd4eb28f6124653fa5a4b593195f76e5e745178)
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Regardless of the QB, the offense this year was effective and efficient, averaging 6.3 yards per play and .52 points per play (both of which are Top 20 in the country). The schedule wasn't murder's row, but that was still against four Top 40 defenses.
The biggest problem was the offense turned the ball over too much; the Cats turned it over 3.14% of the time on offense. Both QBs had issues here; Waters finished by throwing INTs on 3.9% of his attempts. Sams threw INTs on 7.7% of his attempts. Waters fumbled on 3.8% of his carries and Sams fumbled on 2.0% of his carries.
FWIW, K-State is still in the Top 25 in TOP nationally.
What about 3 and outs? Or drives that resulted in TDs? Serious questions btw.
Waters had more 3 and outs. I won't question it or try to rationalize it. He took too many sacks and struggled sailing balls on intermediate routes to the sidelines. He was a clumsy runner, but he got better as the season went along, his running numbers were far more indicative of him taking way too many sacks.
No doubt the use of the quarterbacks this season was frustrating. Some games the staff found a good rhythm and some they didn't and I hope they get a better system figured out for next year.
However, the offense for THIS TEAM, was still very good, and it was very good with the numbers of both quarterbacks combined, despite both of them having turnover issues.
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Regardless of the QB, the offense this year was effective and efficient, averaging 6.3 yards per play and .52 points per play (both of which are Top 20 in the country). The schedule wasn't murder's row, but that was still against four Top 40 defenses.
The biggest problem was the offense turned the ball over too much; the Cats turned it over 3.14% of the time on offense. Both QBs had issues here; Waters finished by throwing INTs on 3.9% of his attempts. Sams threw INTs on 7.7% of his attempts. Waters fumbled on 3.8% of his carries and Sams fumbled on 2.0% of his carries.
FWIW, K-State is still in the Top 25 in TOP nationally.
What about 3 and outs? Or drives that resulted in TDs? Serious questions btw.
Waters had more 3 and outs. I won't question it or try to rationalize it. He took too many sacks and struggled sailing balls on intermediate routes to the sidelines. He was a clumsy runner, but he got better as the season went along, his running numbers were far more indicative of him taking way too many sacks.
No doubt the use of the quarterbacks this season was frustrating. Some games the staff found a good rhythm and some they didn't and I hope they get a better system figured out for next year.
However, the offense for THIS TEAM, was still very good, and it was very good with the numbers of both quarterbacks combined, despite both of them having turnover issues.
i think the offensive numbers are really inflated by 200yd rushing performances and tlbl's yac but thats just me
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[It's not about turnovers. It's about field position and having more positive outcomes offensively than negative outcomes and we have not done that.
I understand your other points, but the impact of turnovers was just as dramatic as any other factor in winning and losing this season, not only that they happened, but when they happened with both QBs.
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i think the offensive numbers are really inflated by 200yd rushing performances and tlbl's yac but thats just me
Yeah, last year they were inflated by our good players too. Good players tend to inflate the stats.
This place, man.
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i think the offensive numbers are really inflated by 200yd rushing performances and tlbl's yac but thats just me
Yeah, last year they were inflated by our good players too. Good players tend to inflate the stats.
This place, man.
cmon surely you got my point. i know they were good offensive outputs in those games but it wasnt very consistent (to me)
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Regardless of the QB, the offense this year was effective and efficient, averaging 6.3 yards per play and .52 points per play (both of which are Top 20 in the country). The schedule wasn't murder's row, but that was still against four Top 40 defenses.
The biggest problem was the offense turned the ball over too much; the Cats turned it over 3.14% of the time on offense. Both QBs had issues here; Waters finished by throwing INTs on 3.9% of his attempts. Sams threw INTs on 7.7% of his attempts. Waters fumbled on 3.8% of his carries and Sams fumbled on 2.0% of his carries.
FWIW, K-State is still in the Top 25 in TOP nationally.
What about 3 and outs? Or drives that resulted in TDs? Serious questions btw.
Yeah. When most of our offense comes from big plays, with next to nothing in between, those advanced stats are going to make us look a lot better than we really are. There has been no consistency in our offense all year, except for when Sams is taking the snaps, and it has cost us games.
It's not about turnovers. It's about field position and having more positive outcomes offensively than negative outcomes and we have not done that.
Remember when _FENCE made this? The Punt and 3 and Out numbers are simply terrifying:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg96.imageshack.us%2Fimg96%2F2610%2F6lo6.png&hash=efd4eb28f6124653fa5a4b593195f76e5e745178)
I went and looked up Waters' drives in Big 12 play prior to the KU game and more than half of Waters' drives were 4 plays or less for 0 points. It's just dumbfounding how bad he is when he's not throwing deep touchdown passes. If we could move the football at a reasonable level and still consistently put points on the board when we aren't hitting big plays, I would want Waters to be the starter and I'd want Sams to move to WR. Most of his drives are just unacceptably bad, though. He shouldn't be playing.
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Regardless of the QB, the offense this year was effective and efficient, averaging 6.3 yards per play and .52 points per play (both of which are Top 20 in the country). The schedule wasn't murder's row, but that was still against four Top 40 defenses.
The biggest problem was the offense turned the ball over too much; the Cats turned it over 3.14% of the time on offense. Both QBs had issues here; Waters finished by throwing INTs on 3.9% of his attempts. Sams threw INTs on 7.7% of his attempts. Waters fumbled on 3.8% of his carries and Sams fumbled on 2.0% of his carries.
FWIW, K-State is still in the Top 25 in TOP nationally.
What about 3 and outs? Or drives that resulted in TDs? Serious questions btw.
Waters had more 3 and outs. I won't question it or try to rationalize it. He took too many sacks and struggled sailing balls on intermediate routes to the sidelines. He was a clumsy runner, but he got better as the season went along, his running numbers were far more indicative of him taking way too many sacks.
No doubt the use of the quarterbacks this season was frustrating. Some games the staff found a good rhythm and some they didn't and I hope they get a better system figured out for next year.
However, the offense for THIS TEAM, was still very good, and it was very good with the numbers of both quarterbacks combined, despite both of them having turnover issues.
While the offense was pretty good, it obviously could have been better.
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cmon surely you got my point. i know they were good offensive outputs in those games but it wasnt very consistent (to me)
Of course I do. We got one really great quarter against OU and it wasn't enough to win. It was one factor in that game (along with some bad special teams and poor defense, especially on 3rd down.
My point is this; I'm trying to look at this season with a big picture view, and the numbers over 12 games can't be that skewed one way or the other. They are either good or they aren't, and everything points to this being a pretty damn good offense that had dreadful turnover problems. That was coupled with an average defense and pretty good special teams.
And that's why this team is 7-5 and not better.
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[It's not about turnovers. It's about field position and having more positive outcomes offensively than negative outcomes and we have not done that.
I understand your other points, but the impact of turnovers was just as dramatic as any other factor in winning and losing this season, not only that they happened, but when they happened with both QBs.
A turnover giving up good field position is no worse than a 3 and out giving up good field position. If the turnover happens after a couple of first downs are gained, I would say the turnover is actually much better. At least the offense keeps the defense off the field for a few minutes in that scenario.
My overall point is that no team consistently turns the ball over. Some teams are better at protecting the ball than others, and we admittedly have not been good. Good teams do not consistently run 3 or 4 plays and then punt like we do, though. The turnovers could be overcome if the offense were capable of staying on the field and consistently scoring points.
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agree with FAN on needing to look at the statistics and not be biased by personal views re. any one player. stats are stats. FAN could learn a lot from himself here.
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A couple of really good offensive metrics from a great ADV football site.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feioff2013
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaoff
Both of these have criteria for drive efficiency and explosiveness. I'll leave it to you guys to read the charts yourselves, but I find it to be pretty good stuff.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fl.wigflip.com%2FcxssPF3N%2Froflbot.jpg&hash=e1abe77786dba46d17bea2eba0953e6c3d446df1)
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agree with FAN on needing to look at the statistics and not be biased by personal views re. any one player. stats are stats. FAN could learn a lot from himself here.
I've been talking about K-State's offense here. :dunno:
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I just don't feel like Waters is a great fit for the offense Snyder tries to run and his year or age has nothing to do with it.
He'd probably be pretty good somewhere else
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agree with FAN on needing to look at the statistics and not be biased by personal views re. any one player. stats are stats. FAN could learn a lot from himself here.
I've been talking about K-State's offense here. :dunno:
I know. :dunno:
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A turnover giving up good field position is no worse than a 3 and out giving up good field position. If the turnover happens after a couple of first downs are gained, I would say the turnover is actually much better. At least the offense keeps the defense off the field for a few minutes in that scenario.
My overall point is that no team consistently turns the ball over. Some teams are better at protecting the ball than others, and we admittedly have not been good. Good teams do not consistently run 3 or 4 plays and then punt like we do, though. The turnovers could be overcome if the offense were capable of staying on the field and consistently scoring points.
The TO outlier game this year is Baylor, and it fits the scenario for advocating TOP. TO% was 1.3% and we were in it because of dominating TOP, but a TO was still one of K-State's key stats of the game (QB snaps were nearly equal, FWIW)
Our other 4 losses were also our worst TO% games, all 3.8% or worse (OSU was 7.6%).
I think TOP is important for Snyder teams, but I think TOs are too. I think that numbers demonstrate that well this season.
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A turnover giving up good field position is no worse than a 3 and out giving up good field position. If the turnover happens after a couple of first downs are gained, I would say the turnover is actually much better. At least the offense keeps the defense off the field for a few minutes in that scenario.
My overall point is that no team consistently turns the ball over. Some teams are better at protecting the ball than others, and we admittedly have not been good. Good teams do not consistently run 3 or 4 plays and then punt like we do, though. The turnovers could be overcome if the offense were capable of staying on the field and consistently scoring points.
The TO outlier game this year is Baylor, and it fits the scenario for advocating TOP. TO% was 1.3% and we were in it because of dominating TOP, but a TO was still one of K-State's key stats of the game (QB snaps were nearly equal, FWIW)
Our other 4 losses were also our worst TO% games, all 3.8% or worse (OSU was 7.6%).
I think TOP is important for Snyder teams, but I think TOs are too. I think that numbers demonstrate that well this season.
We didn't lose to NDSU because Jake Waters had interceptions before halftime and at the end of the game that resulted in 0 NDSU points. We lost because of all the drives we had that resulted in 0 points and a punt. I get that turnovers matter and agree that they are very important. Let's not act like they are the sole reason this team is losing close games, though. The lack of consistency on offense is the problem. The turnovers only make it worse.
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A turnover giving up good field position is no worse than a 3 and out giving up good field position. If the turnover happens after a couple of first downs are gained, I would say the turnover is actually much better. At least the offense keeps the defense off the field for a few minutes in that scenario.
My overall point is that no team consistently turns the ball over. Some teams are better at protecting the ball than others, and we admittedly have not been good. Good teams do not consistently run 3 or 4 plays and then punt like we do, though. The turnovers could be overcome if the offense were capable of staying on the field and consistently scoring points.
The TO outlier game this year is Baylor, and it fits the scenario for advocating TOP. TO% was 1.3% and we were in it because of dominating TOP, but a TO was still one of K-State's key stats of the game (QB snaps were nearly equal, FWIW)
Our other 4 losses were also our worst TO% games, all 3.8% or worse (OSU was 7.6%).
I think TOP is important for Snyder teams, but I think TOs are too. I think that numbers demonstrate that well this season.
We didn't lose to NDSU because Jake Waters had interceptions before halftime and at the end of the game that resulted in 0 NDSU points. We lost because of all the drives we had that resulted in 0 points and a punt. I get that turnovers matter and agree that they are very important. Let's not act like they are the sole reason this team is losing close games, though. The lack of consistency on offense is the problem. The turnovers only make it worse.
NDSU was a terrible offensive performance, one of the worst of the season. The QB was a big reason for that, so was the offensive line getting dominated.
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Regardless of the QB, the offense this year was effective and efficient, averaging 6.3 yards per play and .52 points per play (both of which are Top 20 in the country). The schedule wasn't murder's row, but that was still against four Top 40 defenses.
The biggest problem was the offense turned the ball over too much; the Cats turned it over 3.14% of the time on offense. Both QBs had issues here; Waters finished by throwing INTs on 3.9% of his attempts. Sams threw INTs on 7.7% of his attempts. Waters fumbled on 3.8% of his carries and Sams fumbled on 2.0% of his carries.
FWIW, K-State is still in the Top 25 in TOP nationally.
What about 3 and outs? Or drives that resulted in TDs? Serious questions btw.
Yeah. When most of our offense comes from big plays, with next to nothing in between, those advanced stats are going to make us look a lot better than we really are. There has been no consistency in our offense all year, except for when Sams is taking the snaps, and it has cost us games.
It's not about turnovers. It's about field position and having more positive outcomes offensively than negative outcomes and we have not done that.
Remember when _FENCE made this? The Punt and 3 and Out numbers are simply terrifying:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg96.imageshack.us%2Fimg96%2F2610%2F6lo6.png&hash=efd4eb28f6124653fa5a4b593195f76e5e745178)
I went and looked up Waters' drives in Big 12 play prior to the KU game and more than half of Waters' drives were 4 plays or less for 0 points. It's just dumbfounding how bad he is when he's not throwing deep touchdown passes. If we could move the football at a reasonable level and still consistently put points on the board when we aren't hitting big plays, I would want Waters to be the starter and I'd want Sams to move to WR. Most of his drives are just unacceptably bad, though. He shouldn't be playing.
^^This. Quick strikes are fine when you can strike quickly on a fairly consistent basis, and when you are still able to move the ball some on non-scoring drives. Waters doesn't seem to be able to get this offense to do either of those things on a quarter to quarter, week to week basis. Their roles should be reversed next year (assuming Sams makes decent strides in the off-season), with Sams taking the vast majority of the snaps and Waters being the change of pace QB who can come in and take some shots down the field. I would be very happy with that scenario.
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back to the topic...if he was a freshman, I'd understand why he holds the ball in the pocket so painfully long. The biggest favor the coaches can teach Waters this bonus practice season and next spring is to get rid of the damn ball!
Maybe we need to adjust our WR routes (I'm admittedly low route-running IQ here)? Is everybody running double moves or long routes that take forever to develop or tell if a WR is open? If so, give Waters more short routes to throw to (I know, I know, he'll just sail the ball over their heads or skip 'em in the dirt, right?).
Waters is just frustrating to me. If he were a freshman, I'd have more patience. He's a Junior.
I hope that Daniel really shines in practice over the next few weeks AND that we get a team that is susceptible to the run. I don't mind him sharing a little time with Waters, but the situation the past couple of weeks has been a bummer. I'm firmly team #LIFE.
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i think they both did pretty good this season, not really concerned with the future of the KATQB position
i hope we get better LB and WR play next season though
our o-line got better as the season progressed, not sure about what to expect from next year? a big mac and fries?
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i think they both did pretty good this season, not really concerned with the future of the KATQB position
i hope we get better LB and WR play next season though
our o-line got better as the season progressed, not sure about what to expect from next year? a big mac and fries?
i think our LBs are supposed to be better next season. think our OL is gonna be worse though. what does this mean?
:dunno:
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good news is that LBs are going to be studs
more good news just arriving on my desk - so is o-line
:cool:
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If Waters were a freshman I'd be cool with him getting about 30% of the snaps to change things up and help his development.
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who's your source re. the oline clams? because mine is a pretty legendary cat footballer. hint: he represented the cats in the 2006 texas bowl at OL. hint 2: he wore number 69. hint 3: he's from Conway Springs. yep, that's right, it's caleb handy.
my point is that i think one of our sources is sending out disinformation to spread confusion. if your source has more cred than mine i'll know that caleb is the falsifier.
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Here is another interesting hypothetical: What if Sams was a foot taller?
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who's your source re. the oline clams? because mine is a pretty legendary cat footballer. hint: he represented the cats in the 2006 texas bowl at OL. hint 2: he wore number 69. hint 3: he's from Conway Springs. yep, that's right, it's caleb handy.
my point is that i think one of our sources is sending out disinformation to spread confusion. if your source has more cred than mine i'll know that caleb is the falsifier.
true story - and this is no joke on you, i have no source. the news i was talking about earlier that came across my desk was just a belief in a little thing i like to call, kat football. go ksu.