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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on November 21, 2013, 11:49:01 AM
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1st Pace PPP eFG% TO% OR% FTR
KSU 32 0.93 48.3% 21.8% 27.8% 6.7%
Opp 32 0.93 44.4% 24.9% 38.9% 40.7%
2nd Pace PPP eFG% TO% OR% FTR
KSU 36 0.87 33.3% 11.2% 33.3% 56.7%
Opp 36 1.06 41.4% 30.7% 50.0% 62.1%
Total Pace PPP eFG% TO% OR% FTR
KSU 68 0.89 40.8% 16.1% 31.0% 31.7%
Opp 68 0.99 42.9% 27.8% 44.7% 51.8%
Will: 3-9/1-6
Shane: 4-14/0-6 3-8 FTs
Foster: 5-14/1-8
Nigel: 5-13/3-7
Gip/Johnson 1-3 3 boards.
Beaten soundly on the boards and FTR.
:frown:
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Have we had a more complete across the board meltdown? Even against a moderately decent team?
this is not just embarrassing that it happened, but it happened against a crap team.
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What we play is #finesseketball. The only remotely aggressive thing we do is ball pressure/force TOs. Last year showed #finesseketball can only work if you shoot 50% eFG%. We're not close to being able to do that consistently.
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#finesseketball is super horrible to watch without shooters.
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Yes it is. I don't mind it when you drain 3s at decent clip, but it's sad when you don't.
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Thanks _FWN
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What we play is #finesseketball. The only remotely aggressive thing we do is ball pressure/force TOs. Last year showed #finesseketball can only work if you shoot 50% eFG%. We're not close to being able to do that consistently.
Long term, with the new rules, I'm okay with finesseketballTM as a long term strategy. But you need to really get guys that can rebound and shoot.
If Tre Harris is a 40% guy, then fine. Decent pick up. If Hurt can board, fine. Decent pick up.
But oscar brought in six new guys this past year, and I'm not sure any of them are good shooters or rebounders. Foster is a scorer, which you need, and Westicles is a good glue guy who excels in transition (which we do do very much), and Johnson is a streaky shooter, but none of the guys he brought in are shooters. I thought Bolden's MO from Georgetown was that he was soft inside, so that means he probably won't be a very good rebounder either, and Krap is just a really horrible one year loaner.
Maybe that's the most discouraging thing for me. If we knew that this is how we wanted to play, why didn't we get a shooter in this last class?
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#finesseketball is super horrible to watch without shooters.
http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=290490356 (http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=290490356)
oscar's best all-oscar Illinois team.
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What we play is #finesseketball. The only remotely aggressive thing we do is ball pressure/force TOs. Last year showed #finesseketball can only work if you shoot 50% eFG%. We're not close to being able to do that consistently.
Long term, with the new rules, I'm okay with finesseketballTM as a long term strategy. But you need to really get guys that can rebound and shoot.
If Tre Harris is a 40% guy, then fine. Decent pick up. If Hurt can board, fine. Decent pick up.
But oscar brought in six new guys this past year, and I'm not sure any of them are good shooters or rebounders. Foster is a scorer, which you need, and Westicles is a good glue guy who excels in transition (which we do do very much), and Johnson is a streaky shooter, but none of the guys he brought in are shooters. I thought Bolden's MO from Georgetown was that he was soft inside, so that means he probably won't be a very good rebounder either, and Krap is just a really horrible one year loaner.
Maybe that's the most discouraging thing for me. If we knew that this is how we wanted to play, why didn't we get a shooter in this last class?
Yeah, the tough things is how good can these guys become as shooters? Can they be like last year's team?
#bruceketball IS #finesseketball and it always has been. The 3PT stats over his career bear that out. The TO% advantage oscar's system produces can/should overcome the loss of JYC #s, but only if his teams shoot 35% from 3s on a consistent basis and have around 35% of the shot attempts be from 3.
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#finesseketball is super horrible to watch without shooters.
http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=290490356 (http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=290490356)
oscar's best all-oscar Illinois team.
Jesus
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#finesseketball is super horrible to watch without shooters.
http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=290490356 (http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=290490356)
oscar's best all-oscar Illinois team.
:goodbyecruelworld:
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#finesseketball is super horrible to watch without shooters.
http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=290490356 (http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=290490356)
oscar's best all-oscar Illinois team.
Jesus
Watching us lose 31-25 to TCU will make for excellent gE in-game chatting.
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#finesseketball is super horrible to watch without shooters.
http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=290490356 (http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=290490356)
oscar's best all-oscar Illinois team.
Jesus
Illinois, which did not shoot any free throws -- the first time a team didn't have an attempt in a game at the 46-year-old Assembly Hall.
Illinois coach oscar Weber blamed his team's failure to find inside shots.
"You can't settle for jump shots and have to make them guard you," he said. "I didn't think we're going to get a lot of free throws because we're a jump shooting team."
Illinois' point total was its lowest since a 33-31 loss to Minnesota in 1947.
"I told the other coaches the other day I wasn't sure how well we would play," Weber said. "But I could have never anticipated this."
The win was Penn State's third straight at the Assembly Hall.
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Here's a chart I made last year, sorted by 3PT%.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg94.imageshack.us%2Fimg94%2F2638%2Fbruce3ptto.png&hash=b80f63857906c944fe35e6d63b01e193d931721c)
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Here's a chart I made last year, sorted by 3PT%.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg94.imageshack.us%2Fimg94%2F2638%2Fbruce3ptto.png&hash=b80f63857906c944fe35e6d63b01e193d931721c)
So we need to shoot at least 34% in 3PFG to have a shot at any sort of postseason play. We are shooting 23.5% through 4 games.
:goodbyecruelworld:
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Long term, with the new rules, I'm okay with finesseketballTM as a long term strategy.
No. This is dumb. The rewards for attacking the basket are higher than ever. To have a 6.7% FTR in the first half of this game with the rules and officiating the way they are is ridiculous.
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Wow. oscar has made it to the tournament a lot.
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Wow. oscar has made it to the tournament a lot.
:D
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Long term, with the new rules, I'm okay with finesseketballTM as a long term strategy.
No. This is dumb. The rewards for attacking the basket are higher than ever. To have a 6.7% FTR in the first half of this game with the rules and officiating the way they are is ridiculous.
Yeah, I didn't understand that either. oscar's offense is basically designed not to take advantage of that.
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Here's a chart I made last year, sorted by 3PT%.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg94.imageshack.us%2Fimg94%2F2638%2Fbruce3ptto.png&hash=b80f63857906c944fe35e6d63b01e193d931721c)
So we need to shoot at least 34% in 3PFG to have a shot at any sort of postseason play. We are shooting 23.5% through 4 games.
:goodbyecruelworld:
Yes, #bruceketball seems to trend that way.
I generally make trends to look for now that I follow ADV stats.
My rules for Frank were simple: 40/40/40. K-State needed to force opponents to shoot <40% eFG% and get 40% OR% and FTR. Generally that meant a win.
With oscar its been 50/35/25. oscar's teams need 50% eFG%, 35% 3PT, and to force 25% TOs for opponents.
Granted, there are plenty of other factors, but those seem to be the important ones for each respective system.
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Long term, with the new rules, I'm okay with finesseketballTM as a long term strategy.
No. This is dumb. The rewards for attacking the basket are higher than ever. To have a 6.7% FTR in the first half of this game with the rules and officiating the way they are is ridiculous.
Yeah, I didn't understand that either. oscar's offense is basically designed not to take advantage of that.
Yeah, I didn't think that all the way through.
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Here's a chart I made last year, sorted by 3PT%.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg94.imageshack.us%2Fimg94%2F2638%2Fbruce3ptto.png&hash=b80f63857906c944fe35e6d63b01e193d931721c)
So we need to shoot at least 34% in 3PFG to have a shot at any sort of postseason play. We are shooting 23.5% through 4 games.
:goodbyecruelworld:
We're going to be worse than his '08 team aren't we?
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_Fan, all stats will need to be broken out between Frank’s players and oscar’s players. Last year was all on oscar, this year is all Frank. TIA.
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We aren't getting a lot of good looks, that is the major problem.
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We aren't getting a lot of good looks, that is the major problem.
If
Probably better ways to attack, but I thought most of the 3s we took in the 2nd half were decent looks. If your offense is going to be based on 3s, you better make even fairly open ones.
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omg we lost :lol:
i had a busy morning and then a meeting over lunch then had to go get lunch then got on this board and clicked on five different threads before this one thinking there is no way we lost. lol you guys.
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omg we lost :lol:
i had a busy morning and then a meeting over lunch then had to go get lunch then got on this board and clicked on five different threads before this one thinking there is no way we lost. lol you guys.
I hate to tell you rd, but the game might not have been gE's biggest loss of the day.
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We aren't getting a lot of good looks, that is the major problem.
If
Probably better ways to attack, but I thought most of the 3s we took in the 2nd half were decent looks. If your offense is going to be based on 3s, you better make even fairly open ones.
Jim was right. That MF'er was right.
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We aren't getting a lot of good looks, that is the major problem.
If
Probably better ways to attack, but I thought most of the 3s we took in the 2nd half were decent looks. If your offense is going to be based on 3s, you better make even fairly open ones.
Jim was right. That MF'er was right.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.photo-dictionary.com%2Fphotofiles%2Flist%2F2502%2F3282fool%27s_gold.jpg&hash=94842ec136865a6ccdfcb98e66dd43249ca9a4f7)
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omg we lost :lol:
i had a busy morning and then a meeting over lunch then had to go get lunch then got on this board and clicked on five different threads before this one thinking there is no way we lost. lol you guys.
I hate to tell you rd, but the game might not have been gE's biggest loss of the day.
FFFFFFFFFFFF
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Its going to be a lot of fun watching games at 63 possessions while shooting and rebounding this poorly.
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Will 4-20 and Shane 3-15 on 3s so far. 20% a piece. Just dreadful, seniors
Will does have a 15/2 asst/TO ratio and is ave 4.8 rebounds...... but can't have him shooting 37 eFG% and only 72% from the FT line
Shane only 38.4% on 2pt shots and 10-18 from the FT line
Westicles has twice as many boards as Nino and their minutes are 21.3 and 16.3 per game respectively.
Gip is coming back from injury, but 2 games..... 1-5 FGs, Twice as many fouls (6) as rebounds (3) in 27 minutes
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Its going to be a lot of fun watching games at 63 possessions while shooting and rebounding this poorly.
Running a crisp motion offense takes time. I suppose you'd rather see layups and one on one street ball.
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Its going to be a lot of fun watching games at 63 possessions while shooting and rebounding this poorly.
Running a crisp motion offense takes time. I suppose you'd rather see layups and one on one street ball.
oscar's offense just takes a while to get to the high pick
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Luckily the big 12 is horrible, so there is still hope
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Its going to be a lot of fun watching games at 63 possessions while shooting and rebounding this poorly.
Running a crisp motion offense takes time. I suppose you'd rather see layups and one on one street ball.
I suppose if we started making dunks and layups only worth 1 point while jump shots from the elbow worth 4 and have each point count for half as much after every offensive rebound we might have a chance. (For example, Will shots a shot from the elbow, lol who am I kidding he reverse pivots and passes to Shane who takes the shot, its off the rim, Gip rebounds puts it up, nope off the rim again, DJamer bozes out directly under the rim and flails after the ball 0.5 seconds later while Shane scoops it up again an misses, but collected the rebound and banks it in. The point gained on this trip would 1/2.
This would clean up the game and make it like it should be, in the golden era when athleticism mattered (like the '47 UK Wildcats man what a team!).
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Luckily the big 12 is horrible, so there is still hope
are you saying we're going to turn this ship around? YOU HAVE MY ATTENTION, PLEASE CONTINUE :Jeffy:
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Sure you can, I mean Southwell will easily eclipse Mcgruder's stats from last year and you have oscar as your head coach, with that short, slow kid running the point, sounds like a championship team to me. At least that's what I heard from some kstaters before the season.
If oscar was smart, which he has proven not to be, he would play those freshman and hope they save his job.
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Its going to be a lot of fun watching games at 63 possessions while shooting and rebounding this poorly.
Running a crisp motion offense takes time. I suppose you'd rather see layups and one on one street ball.
I suppose if we started making dunks and layups only worth 1 point while jump shots from the elbow worth 4 and have each point count for half as much after every offensive rebound we might have a chance. (For example, Will shots a shot from the elbow, lol who am I kidding he reverse pivots and passes to Shane who takes the shot, its off the rim, Gip rebounds puts it up, nope off the rim again, DJamer bozes out directly under the rim and flails after the ball 0.5 seconds later while Shane scoops it up again an misses, but collected the rebound and banks it in. The point gained on this trip would 1/2.
This would clean up the game and make it like it should be, in the golden era when athleticism mattered (like the '47 UK Wildcats man what a team!).
Also, every ten seconds run off the shot clock (put this back to 45 seconds of you must have it at all! ) should increase the value of a basket by 1 point. Kids need to learn patience and teamwork, you know?
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Sure you can, I mean Southwell will easily eclipse Mcgruder's stats from last year and you have oscar as your head coach, with that short, slow kid running the point, sounds like a championship team to me. At least that's what I heard from some kstaters before the season.
If oscar was smart, which he has proven not to be, he would play those freshman and hope they save his job.
:lol:
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omg we lost :lol:
i had a busy morning and then a meeting over lunch then had to go get lunch then got on this board and clicked on five different threads before this one thinking there is no way we lost. lol you guys.
I hate to tell you rd, but the game might not have been gE's biggest loss of the day.
saw that. what in the world.
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i don't agree with the bit about foster. i'm pretty convinced he's a good shooter. it's just a question if good, really good or great. i'm not at all convinced he can score aside from shooting 3s (but i think he'll develop some ability to do so, if he can't now).
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i don't agree with the bit about foster. i'm pretty convinced he's a good shooter. it's just a question if good, really good or great. i'm not at all convinced he can score aside from shooting 3s (but i think he'll develop some ability to do so, if he can't now).
I think his dribble drive game looks the most impressive at this point. :dunno: Given a little more time and more teammate support, I think he could be a great drive attack guy and a decent jumpshot player.
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I think his dribble drive game looks the most impressive at this point. :dunno:
wait till they get a scout on him.
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I think his dribble drive game looks the most impressive at this point. :dunno:
wait till they get a scout on him.
Oh, I know. I have been saying that once we hit conf and he becomes the primary focus of the other team in shutting down our offense, things will look drastically diff. Also, he is going to grow and get better unless he pulls a spradling and his first month as a frosh is his ceiling.
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i agree.
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Team #Burnitdown should not be ashamed to admit when oscar does something right (like when he brings in Marcus Foster).
Instead we should focus on the fact that Foster may be the only person on the roster that is doing what he should be doing.
Lineup should look more like this
Angel / Johnson
Foster / Spradling
Westicles/ Southwell
DJamer/ Gipson
Big Man?
two big men wouldn't kill us either. Hurt will help next year. Diaz wouldn't have been good but better than what we are doing right now.
Also this team should be taught to rebound. Even a small team shouldn't be destroyed on the boards like this team.
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Sure you can, I mean Southwell will easily eclipse Mcgruder's stats from last year and you have oscar as your head coach, with that short, slow kid running the point, sounds like a championship team to me. At least that's what I heard from some kstaters before the season.
If oscar was smart, which he has proven not to be, he would play those freshman and hope they save his job.
Seriously, who said this was a championship material team. Every fan base has it's delusional fans. Probably some Ku fans that thought Crist and the qb this year were going to get KU to a bowl game too.