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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: EllToPay on March 28, 2010, 11:05:05 AM
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PG: Irving
SG: Pullen
SF: Sutton
PF: Judge
C: Kelly
:dunno:
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Asprilla??
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Judge and asprilla will go back and forth for about two months until a clear cut favorite emerges. If sutton doesn't pick up his offense a little bit his spot will be in jeopardy to grudsy if he improves during the offseason. I really like dom but I would have expected a little more consistancy by now. Seems like he took a step backwards from last year.
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Asprilla??
Doubtful. Until I see otherwise, he's a better version of Luis Colon.
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Asprilla??
Seriously? If so, idiot!
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If Russell comes along this off-season than we will be deadly. He really is the missing piece for next season. I want McGruder starting next year @ SG by the way. Pullen @ PG.
You hear me Nick?!?! Work hard!!!
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If Russell comes along this off-season than we will be deadly. He really is the missing piece for next season. I want McGruder starting next year @ SG by the way. Pullen @ PG.
You hear me Nick?!?! Work hard!!!
No.
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Asprilla??
Doubtful. Until I see otherwise, he's a better version of Luis Colon.
Colon was a starter.
:dunno:
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PG: Irving
SG: Pullen
SF: Sutton
PF: Judge
C: Kelly
:dunno:
this if the staff doesn't find a community college guard
I've convinced myself that Irving will develop enough in the offseason to be what we need. He was pretty good offensively early in the year so he has it in him, just needs to be found again.
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Pullen
McGruder
Sutton
Samuels
Kelly
:confused:
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SPRADLING!
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Pullen
McGruder
Sutton
Samuels
Kelly
:confused:
Don't like Pullen at the point. I like the idea of Irving handling and freeing Pullen up. Seems reliable, had a lot of good minutes this year.
Also think Asprilla will be amazing. The guy was recruited by Calipari.
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Pullen
McGruder
Sutton
Kelly
Judge
Question: Has anybody seen anything of Freddy? I can't find much video online except some really poor quality stuff from FIU. From what I can see, he's huge and looks much more comfortable with the ball than LuCo ever did. When does he get to start working with the team and Greenawalt?
If you've got any links to Freddy video please post it. I'm actually pretty excited about having him here. He hasn't cracked my starting 5 yet because of lack of info.
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If Russell comes along this off-season than we will be deadly. He really is the missing piece for next season. I want McGruder starting next year @ SG by the way. Pullen @ PG.
You hear me Nick?!?! Work hard!!!
No.
Only put that for one reason. Martavious running the offense scares the crap out of me.
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If Pullen ever wants to sniff the NBA, he's gonna have to play more PG. Whether Frank and the coaches care at all about that, I don't know. Should Pullen become more of a PG and I'd like to see the following starting line up.
Pullen
McGruder
Sutton
Kelly
Asprilla
We'd have great size and depth.
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If Pullen ever wants to sniff the NBA, he's gonna have to play more PG. Whether Frank and the coaches care at all about that, I don't know. Should Pullen become more of a PG and I'd like to see the following starting line up.
Pullen
McGruder
Sutton
Kelly
Asprilla
We'd have great size and depth.
Our depth has potential to be scary next year. If McGruder plays to his potential and Sutton gets hypnosis, frontal
lobotomy, etc something to deal with his mental shortcomings. Its nice to know that our next option in the starting rotation
to Aspirilla is a freakishly athletic 6'9 McDonalds All-American with a great jump shot. Im confused as hell with Samuels
right now, obviously his scoring potential is there but it seems he might be Dom Jr. mentally.
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Jacob
Rodney
Jamar
Wally
Curtis
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Asprilla has a few videos if ya google him or what not. Ones pretty good. I think its national team footage...
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Asprilla has a few videos if ya google him or what not. Ones pretty good. I think its national team footage...
This is all you need to see about Freddy...
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fphotos-ak-sf2p%2Fv295%2F30%2F53%2F1076268410%2Fn1076268410_91364_3993.jpg&hash=b7c1c4f4886accf5fa56f23b1e841c0d7e3f2839)
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If McGruder plays to his potential and Sutton gets something to deal with his mental shortcomings
The first will happen, the second will not. Sutton at this point probably needs to be thrown to the scrap heap.
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Asprilla??
Seriously? If so, idiot!
You're the idiot if you think that Asprilla isn't starting material.
1) Luis is 6'10 @ 265 lbs; Asprilla is 6'10 @ 280 lbs.
2) Luis averaged 2.9 ppg. Asprilla currently averages 13.7 ppg.
3) Asprilla has a greater sense of quickness and ball handling (as in he doesn't get the ball and just pivot while looking for guards)
4) He's a fracking monster on the court.
Try watching some actual highlights of him and then come give your input.
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Asprilla??
Seriously? If so, idiot!
You're the idiot if you think that Asprilla isn't starting material.
1) Luis is 6'10 @ 265 lbs; Asprilla is 6'10 @ 280 lbs.
2) Luis averaged 2.9 ppg. Asprilla currently averages 13.7 ppg.
3) Asprilla has a greater sense of quickness and ball handling (as in he doesn't get the ball and just pivot while looking for guards)
4) He's a fracking monster on the court.
Try watching some actual highlights of him and then come give your input.
If Asprilla gets his conditioning together and Frank likes his defense he can definitely get a shot at starting. Those are big if's though. If Wally progresses like we think he can than I'll give him the spot for now but it should be close.
Also, still think we want a JC PG for next year. Guess we'll see if Te' gets off his ass and goes and gets one.
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Freddy will get DC treatment, not everybody else treatment. This a good thing as there will be very few who can match up w/ him in the B12. :whowillguardMaric:
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:whowillguardMaric:
OMG :love:
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:kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot:
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:kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot: :kstatriot:
:love:
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I'd love to see McGruder start but I don't think he will over Irving. Frank is all about defense and when it comes to defense, Irving>>>>McGruder.
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I'd love to see McGruder start but I don't think he will over Irving. Frank is all about defense and when it comes to defense, Irving>>>>McGruder.
I was all for Irving at the point for the same reason. But the more I ponder it that would kill our running offense. We need Pullen running things with Irving behind him. McGruder plays the 2 and will likely start. If we somehow got Dpete that could change.
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I think McGruder will get the start over Irving, mainly because Jake will be going back to the point. Frank will want more experience at the point, plus Jake needs to have a solid year at the point for his draft stock. His best (only) hope of playing ing the NBA is at the point.
We're so loaded in the frontcourt, it's unreal. -Colon, +Asprilla, +1 yr experience for everyone else. I might be the only one, but I still see JHR being a huge factor off the bench next year. His upside is huge. 3-2 Zone with JHR and Kelly on the back and Sutton at the top is tough. Would have liked to see us try that against Butler. Seemed like they scored 2/3 of their points getting open layups off of screens. Anyone else, or is that just LBBIQ?
The 3 will be interesting. Not sure who will be behind Sutton. Probably go small with McGruds there some I suppose, if he could handle the matchup. Not sure if there is any hope that Jamar can put in minutes at the 3 against a bigger matchup or not. He fouls enough as it is. Would be REALLY great if Southwell could be good enough on D to step in here and give minutes, otherwise I'm seeing this as a potential problem, particularly with the way Sutton gets into foul trouble.
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Too tough to call. I bet Irving plays the 1 :facepalm:, however would like to see Rodney start
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Question: Can McGruder handle the ball well enough to play the 2? I didn't really see that aspect in his game when I watched him. (Not trying to criticize the guy, but an actual question.)
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Question: Can McGruder handle the ball well enough to play the 2? I didn't really see that aspect in his game when I watched him. (Not trying to criticize the guy, but an actual question.)
JFC, yes mcruder can handle the ball. He's a fracking baller!
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Question: Can McGruder handle the ball well enough to play the 2? I didn't really see that aspect in his game when I watched him. (Not trying to criticize the guy, but an actual question.)
ya I feel like I never really saw him cross anyone up or slash a lot to the basket
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I think you all are reading too much into the 'upside' of the players we have left. Upside generally never materializes. Having potential just means you aren't worth a damn. Next year, 8-8 will be great. Hell, we may only win 4-5 conference games next year.
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I think you all are reading too much into the 'upside' of the players we have left. Upside generally never materializes. Having potential just means you aren't worth a damn. Next year, 8-8 will be great. Hell, we may only win 4-5 conference games next year.
Yeah, you're probably right. Rarely do players show much improvement between their freshman and sophomore years. I'm sure those 5 freshmen, particularly the 4 that got Big 12 level experience will be any better next year. :jerk:
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At this point, I'd personally prefer to continue to watch Jake play off of the ball. It's obviously worked out well thus far.
At the point, I think you really hope for Russell to come around. He's got the size and shooting ability to be an offensive threat, but defensively, he's got a long way to go. If KSU can't secure a really nice JUCO PG, I think you'll see Russell and Irving fight it out.
Now, there are two scenarios. One, if Irving wins the job, you have to play McGruder at the three. There is no way that you can have two players on the floor at the same time who aren't true scoring threats (Irving & Sutton). You'll have to play McGruder at the three to open up the offense on the perimeter, or the other team is just going to choke the ability to feed the ball inside.
The second scenario is if Russell starts. If he comes around, I'd see Sutton still starting, but I still think you need McGruder out there. He has the ability to score from the wing, on the perimeter and inside, which would hopefully prevent teams, like Butler and Kansas, from trying to double our guards.
The bottom line is that McGruder needs to start, ultimately, and if he does, you can probably swap Russell and Irving interchangeably depending on the defensive matchups or the need for perimeter scoring. Truthfully, it's kind of a moot point because the bulk of our talent will reside in the frontcourt, so what we need on the perimeter is solid defense, which Irving and Pullen provide, and you can let the front court take the bulk of the scoring between Asprilla, Kelly, Samuels, and Judge.
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I only want McG playing the three anyway
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1. Irving has to play the 1 when playing. Why? because SG's have to be able to S, that is why it is part of the abbreviation. Irving hasn't shown that in our games to date. I have heard that he used to be good at the three when in high school. Hopefully he finds that ability again.
2. I would agree with PW's line up, because Frank mentioned wanting to move Jamar to the 3 before this season. However, I think we would have saw a lot more of that this year if it was a possibility. Didn't happen, so I don't foresee it next year. Jamar has a long way to go to be a solid 3.
3. I don't see us being better next year unless we bring in a serious PG. Otherwise, our lack of control and ability to push the game from our PG position will seriously strangle this team. We have no one that currently has the skill set. Look for a big recruit to come in, or look for some very different bb next year.
4. Rodney and Jake will be bringing the ball up unless the recruit mentioned in #3 comes forth. Irving will help at times, but needs to provide more O than he does now. It is ok to have a D stopper like Dom that doesn't score often in our system, however our system needs a PG that can score.
5. I still don't see Russell playing a sig role in our team. He may end up being the Lu of the back court.
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I only want McG playing the three anyway
He really, really, really, REALLY needs to pull his head out on defense. If he can become adequate (not good, just adequate) he'll get minutes and could really help offset the loss of Clemente's offense (not saying they're similar scorers, just that they're both scorers). If we can't run (and we won't be able to sans Denis), we have to be able to shoot. And we can't shoot unless Rodney is out there, imho. Unfortunately, Rodney won't be out there unless he pulls his head out on defense. Ergo, this is the key to the season.
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If Russell comes along this off-season than we will be deadly. He really is the missing piece for next season. I want McGruder starting next year @ SG by the way. Pullen @ PG.
You hear me Nick?!?! Work hard!!!
Im a Nick Russell fan as well. I just love the thought of a 6'4 PG with handle's. <3 <3 <3
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If Russell comes along this off-season than we will be deadly. He really is the missing piece for next season. I want McGruder starting next year @ SG by the way. Pullen @ PG.
You hear me Nick?!?! Work hard!!!
Im a Nick Russell fan as well. I just love the thought of a 6'4 PG with handle's. <3 <3 <3
What are you a fan of? His non-emotionally telling bench expressions? His ability to keep his warm up on for long periods of time? His inability to fight through a pick?
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Question: Can McGruder handle the ball well enough to play the 2? I didn't really see that aspect in his game when I watched him. (Not trying to criticize the guy, but an actual question.)
ya I feel like I never really saw him cross anyone up or slash a lot to the basket
agreed. Just seemed like a spot up shooter, and the clean up man on missed shots. I would love to see him go more 1 on 1. STREET BALL RODNEY FREAKIN STREET BALL!!!!
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If Russell comes along this off-season than we will be deadly. He really is the missing piece for next season. I want McGruder starting next year @ SG by the way. Pullen @ PG.
You hear me Nick?!?! Work hard!!!
Im a Nick Russell fan as well. I just love the thought of a 6'4 PG with handle's. <3 <3 <3
What are you a fan of? His non-emotionally telling bench expressions? His ability to keep his warm up on for long periods of time? His inability to fight through a pick?
Nailed it.
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I only want McG playing the three anyway
If we can't run (and we won't be able to sans Denis), we have to be able to shoot.
This is my main concern. GD, we need a fracking PG that can move. I am not a huge fan of slowly bringing the ball up and running the wheel.
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I only want McG playing the three anyway
He really, really, really, REALLY needs to pull his head out on defense. If he can become adequate (not good, just adequate) he'll get minutes and could really help offset the loss of Clemente's offense (not saying they're similar scorers, just that they're both scorers). If we can't run (and we won't be able to sans Denis), we have to be able to shoot. And we can't shoot unless Rodney is out there, imho. Unfortunately, Rodney won't be out there unless he pulls his head out on defense. Ergo, this is the key to the season.
McGruder will be fine. IMHO, McGruder is Frank's next Pullen. Frank rode him hard this year like he did Pullen as a FR while he was very up and down and struggled defensively. However, if/when McGruder "gets it" he's going to turn into a very key piece for the future at K-State along with Judge. I'm going to trust the method to Frank's madness here b/c his past has shown he's going to work a couple of his younger players so they can be leaders by the time they are upperclassmen.
As for line-ups, McGruder will have to prove me wrong as far as playing at SG.
I'd say next year Frank will be looking for some combination at his combo guard spots. Of course Pullen is going to be the feature, probably getting around 15 MPG at PG and 20 or so at SG. The key will be who steps up to get those minutes opposite of him; I'd guess Irving and Russell will battle for those minutes. McGruder will probably get some at SG, but I'm guessing it won't be more than 10 MPG. Then Spradling and Southwell can fight for the scraps.
At SF its pretty much a battle between Sutton and McGruder. We can debate merits, but hopefully Sutton makes some solid offensive/mental/confidence improvements while McGruder figures out what is expected on defense while learning the system more completely on offense. I'd guess we'll see Sutton at least 25 MPG here with McGruder picking up the rest along with some minutes at SG.
In the frontcourt we'll again have lots of options. I would imagine it may shake up to Kelly and Samuels starting, depending on match-ups and what Asprilla brings. Judge takes on JamSam's role this year as the spark of the bench. JHR fills in where needed and in games where he's a good match-up. Right now I'd guess 25 MPG for Kelly, 20 for both Samuels and Judge, with Asprilla and JHR splitting the rest. Asprilla could end up playing a larger role, but we'll have to see. Its harder to say how this spot will shake out with 5 guys battling for minutes, but I am hopeful Kelly, Judge, and Jamar make it hard for Frank to keep them off the floor.
We'll have to find ways to create pace without Clemente, but its not like Pullen, Irving, or even Russell are incapable of pushing the ball, the just weren't asked to do so this year. Again, it won't look like the speed of Clemente and we'll have to use more kick ahead passes to guys like McGruder, Sutton, or even Samuels leaking to play fast, but it can be done.
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It all really depends on how Frank wants to use Pullen and how whomever is playing opposite of Pullen develops. I'm not a believer in Irving, at all, and Russell seems entirely too slow. McGruds lacks the handles to be a combo-guard. So I'll be curious to see how Frank handles it. So, I have no idea who the "1" will be, I just hope he's good enough that Jake can play a majority of his time at the "2". I'm terrified of a Texas situation at the point. Sutton and McGruds at the 3. Jamar at the 4 (if he gets it together and develops an outside shot, we will be a match up problem for a lot of teams), Kelly at the 5. Wally and Spri off the bench.
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We'll have to find ways to create pace without Clemente, but its not like Pullen, Irving, or even Russell are incapable of pushing the ball, the just weren't asked to do so this year. Again, it won't look like the speed of Clemente and we'll have to use more kick ahead passes to guys like McGruder, Sutton, or even Samuels leaking to play fast, but it can be done.
I am very confident we will continue to get points off our defense, so that will obviously help. We've got guys that can get quick set shots/pull-up 3s as well. But here's the thing -- who's going to penetrate in the half court? Jake is mediocre at it and no one else on the perimeter has shown an ability to pick that slack up. This is why I am kind of hung up on Rodney at this point -- I'm thinking we'll need better shooting to compensate for the loss of Clemente, and I think Rodney can bring that. I am hoping he can get himself onto the floor as much as possible next year.
I'm terrified of a Texas situation at the point.
Don't be. The mere presence of Pullen will insure we don't ever get to that point.
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I am very confident we will continue to get points off our defense, so that will obviously help. We've got guys that can get quick set shots/pull-up 3s as well. But here's the thing -- who's going to penetrate in the half court? Jake is mediocre at it and no one else on the perimeter has shown an ability to pick that slack up. This is why I am kind of hung up on Rodney at this point -- I'm thinking we'll need better shooting to compensate for the loss of Clemente, and I think Rodney can bring that. I am hoping he can get himself onto the floor as much as possible next year.
Good point. Only thing I'd say is given his skill set, McGruder is more likely to take another 3 off the dribble than a 2. That's the other thing you've got to consider, if McGruder is playing the 2, he's more than likely to be guarded by another 2. Granted, that gives a match-up advantage on the boards and perhaps getting his shot off, but less likely that he can take a guy with more lateral quickness off the dribble.
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I am very confident we will continue to get points off our defense, so that will obviously help. We've got guys that can get quick set shots/pull-up 3s as well. But here's the thing -- who's going to penetrate in the half court? Jake is mediocre at it and no one else on the perimeter has shown an ability to pick that slack up. This is why I am kind of hung up on Rodney at this point -- I'm thinking we'll need better shooting to compensate for the loss of Clemente, and I think Rodney can bring that. I am hoping he can get himself onto the floor as much as possible next year.
Good point. Only thing I'd say is given his skill set, McGruder is more likely to take another 3 off the dribble than a 2. That's the other thing you've got to consider, if McGruder is playing the 2, he's more than likely to be guarded by another 2. Granted, that gives a match-up advantage on the boards and perhaps getting his shot off, but less likely that he can take a guy with more lateral quickness off the dribble.
I'm pretty much down with your minutes breakdown guesstimate for just that reason -- I'm fine with McGruder getting most of his minutes at the 3. I just want him scoring when he's in there.
Is this where the powerespect idea that McGruder will "replace" Clemente comes from? The desire to plug him onto the floor wherever possible (and with Clemente leaving, the biggest hole is at pg) is a very strong impulse, and I understand it. It's flat-out wrong to insinuate he should play point (unless we're in a jam with fouls/injuries), but I get why folks want to shoe-horn him onto the court and pencil him in for 15 points a game. His offensive game is tantalizing.
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I don't know why people are scared of Irving running the point. If he follows the normal progression from true frosh to soph, he could be pretty good.
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I don't know why people are scared of Irving running the point. If he follows the normal progression from true frosh to soph, he could be pretty good.
+1.
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I'm pretty meh on McGruder. Didn't do much after OOC, I mean, other than be better than Irving on offense. Geez, wow.
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I'm pretty meh on McGruder. Didn't do much after OOC, I mean, other than be better than Irving on offense. Geez, wow.
I think you're selling him short. With the way he boarded and fought on offense, he's got the potential to not only match Sutton in "effort" plays, but also destroy him as an offensive player. Then again, we were saying stuff about Sutton and potential three years ago, so I'll try to avoid beating this drum too loudly. :gocho:
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I'm pretty meh on McGruder. Didn't do much after OOC, I mean, other than be better than Irving on offense. Geez, wow.
For me, at least, it involves hoping that he becomes an offensive option for the 3 spot, since nothing really indicates Sutton will become one as a senior.
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I'm pretty meh on McGruder. Didn't do much after OOC, I mean, other than be better than Irving on offense. Geez, wow.
Its hard to guage any of them besides Judge right now.
Clearly Judge did some things right, going from 8.5 MPG in conference to 10.7 MPG in the Big 12 Tournament, to 17.8 MPG in the NCAA tournament. Irving was the next most consistent with minutes; 9.9 conference, 8.7 Big 12 Tournament, 10.8 NCAAs. Then McGruder with 15 conference, 7.7 Big 12 tournament, and 10.2 NCAA.
Judge was asked to do more than either Irving or McGruder, but both showed some signs of being decent. With Russell and JHR, I see no reason why those 5 can't be a solid core and lead us to at least one NCAA (depending on surrounding them with decent talent) when they are upperclassmen.
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Sounds like Sutton has an early lead in the race to replace Lu or Energy as many fans' least-fav. :frown:
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Sounds like Sutton has an early lead in the race to replace Lu or Energy as many fans' least-fav. :frown:
Maybe. When Frank starts throwing OJ out there to teach lessons next year fans will pile on him as well though.
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Sounds like Sutton has an early lead in the race to replace Lu or Energy as many fans' least-fav. :frown:
Maybe. When Frank starts throwing OJ out there to teach lessons next year fans will pile on him as well though.
Yep. :angry:
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Sounds like Sutton has an early lead in the race to replace Lu or Energy as many fans' least-fav. :frown:
Maybe. When Frank starts throwing OJ out there to teach lessons next year fans will pile on him as well though.
I'm looking forward to it. :eye:
Also, I'll just add that whomever is running the point is going to get it from the start of the season. I feel sorry for whomever that is cause the offense is going to look like sh*t (relatively speaking) for a while until (a) a pg steps forward or (b) frank decides that he can't trust anyone but pullen.
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Also, I'll just add that whomever is running the point is going to get it from the start of the season. I feel sorry for whomever that is cause the offense is going to look like sh*t (relatively speaking) for a while until (a) a pg steps forward or (b) frank decides that he can't trust anyone but pullen.
Absolutely. Probably going to be Irving, whom Frank will ask to focus on protecting the ball and distributing...more of a true PG style. Pullen will have to get open at the 2 by using the big men as a threat, rather than Clemente. And when we lose, fans will say it's because our PG is not a scoring threat...which may or may not be an accurate assessment.
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all irving should do off season besides conitioning/weight room stuff is shoot about 1000 top of the key jumpers per day.
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Sounds like Sutton has an early lead in the race to replace Lu or Energy as many fans' least-fav. :frown:
Maybe. When Frank starts throwing OJ out there to teach lessons next year fans will pile on him as well though.
Wait 'til he gets the last remaining scholarship. Should be fun around here.
As for the point...I'm not sure how it's not Pullen. What good does it do to take Pullen off the ball and then put somebody at point who can't set him up? Whats more realistic: Irving creating for Pullen or Pullen creating for Irving? (or Spradling or McGruder or Russell or Southwell) Seems like to makes more sense to start Pullen at point until somebody takes it from. At least your getting the ball into the hands of your best scorer on every posession that way.
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Sounds like Sutton has an early lead in the race to replace Lu or Energy as many fans' least-fav. :frown:
Maybe. When Frank starts throwing OJ out there to teach lessons next year fans will pile on him as well though.
Wait 'til he gets the last remaining scholarship. Should be fun around here.
:runaway:
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Sounds like Sutton has an early lead in the race to replace Lu or Energy as many fans' least-fav. :frown:
Maybe. When Frank starts throwing OJ out there to teach lessons next year fans will pile on him as well though.
Wait 'til he gets the last remaining scholarship. Should be fun around here.
:runaway:
I may be okay with this if it guaranteed us his brother. Don't think it would have much of a bearing though.
Early watch list for most hated player on the team:
1. Starting PG (for not being Clemente)
2. OJ (for being on the court)
3. Sutton (for his lack of development)
4. Asprilla (for being a tubber)
Samuels is the darkhorse and of course anyone else could steal the title if they regress.
Slightly off topic: Love that our opponents hate Kelly. Makes me like him even more.
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Sounds like Sutton has an early lead in the race to replace Lu or Energy as many fans' least-fav. :frown:
Stacy cannot be replaced.