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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on November 07, 2013, 01:01:11 PM

Title: Honorary Membership
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on November 07, 2013, 01:01:11 PM
First, please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to start some sort of race-war, but I know we've got some black emaws around here and I'd appreciate your input. Is this a real thing? Do you guys agree with the sentiments expressed below (assuming they are, in fact, true)?

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/11/richie-incognito-considered-black-in-dolphins-locker-room.html (http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/11/richie-incognito-considered-black-in-dolphins-locker-room.html)

Quote
One of the most curious aspects of the Richie Incognito-Jonathan Martin story is how race has become very much a part of it outside the Dolphins locker room -- in the media and among fans and observers -- but not at all so far within the Dolphins locker room.

Think of this:

Richie Incognito left Jonathan Martin a voice mail that, among other things, called Martin a "half-n----r piece of crap." And Dolphins players of color, knowing of the voicemail, have expressed no problems with Incognito.

"I don't have a problem with Richie," Mike Wallace said. "I love Richie."

"I don't think Richie is a racist," cornerback Brent Grimes said.

"Richie Incognito isn't a racist," tight end Michael Egnew said.

ESPN analyst and former Dolphins wide receiver Cris Carter has know Mike Pouncey since the player's childhood. Today Carter said on air he recently spoke to Mike Pouncey and the center, who is Incognito's friend, addressed race.

"They don't feel as if he's a racist, they don't feel as if he picked on Jonathan repeatedly and bullied him, but if they could do it all over again there would be situations that they might change but they’re very, very comfortable with Richie,” Carter said.

 “They think it’s sad, not only that Jonathan’s not on the football team, but also that Richie is being depicted as a bigot and as a racist.”

How is this possible?

Well, I've spoken to multiple people today about this and the explanation from all of them is that in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.

"Richie is honarary," one player who left the Dolphins this offseason told me today. "I don't expect you to understand because you're not black. But being a black guy, being a brother is more than just about skin color. It's about how you carry yourself. How you play. Where you come from. What you've experienced. A lot of things."

Another former Dolphins employee told me Martin is considered "soft" by his teammates and that's a reason he's not readily accepted by some of the players, particularly the black players. His background -- Stanford educated and the son of highly educated people -- was not necessarily seen as a strength or a positive by some players and it perpetuated in the way Martin carried himself.


And so -- agree with it or not, comprehend it or not -- this is a reason the Dolphins haven't turned on Incognito as a racist.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: 0.42 on November 07, 2013, 01:04:28 PM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.totalprosports.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2Fwashington-state-fan-popcorn.gif&hash=a37b6c1e2b728664197937f0af868750ff06f2e0)
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on November 07, 2013, 01:07:11 PM
lol
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: slobber on November 07, 2013, 01:17:32 PM
This is absolutely stupid. (I am white.)
Now they are saying it is okay to use the n word if you are an honorary black person and to refer to somebody who is biracial as "half n"? What in the hell!
I got a news flash for idiots everywhere. Using the n word is not acceptable no matter your race or honorary race.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: Emo EMAW on November 07, 2013, 01:31:24 PM
This is absolutely stupid. (I am white.)
Now they are saying it is okay to use the n word if you are an honorary black person and to refer to somebody who is biracial as "half n"? What in the hell!
I got a news flash for idiots everywhere. Using the n word is not acceptable no matter your race or honorary race.

Especially if you aren't best rough ridin' friends with the call you're calling a n-word.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on November 07, 2013, 02:27:38 PM
The NFL should just give a lifetime ban to all Nebraska alumni and about 75% of all their image problems would suddenly disappear.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: ednksu on November 07, 2013, 05:01:41 PM
I'm just captivated by a locker room rejecting a black guy because of his education and family status.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: CNS on November 07, 2013, 05:08:15 PM
I'm just captivated by a locker room rejecting a black guy because of his education and family status.

Bill Cosby would say that this is not just a problem in the Miami locker room.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on November 07, 2013, 05:21:24 PM
I'm just captivated by a locker room rejecting a black guy because of his education and family status.

Bill Cosby would say that this is not just a problem in the Miami locker room.

Yeah, this is a national phenomenon.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: Headinjun on November 07, 2013, 07:47:36 PM
I think it would be cool to have a Stanford educated friend who started at a D1 program, and who made it into a starters position in the NFL. 

I wouldn't consider somebody who has crossed all those roads "soft", especially at the tackle position. 
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: Institutional Control on November 08, 2013, 10:25:59 AM
Whitlock's take.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9941696/jonathan-martin-walked-twisted-world-led-incognito
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: CNS on November 08, 2013, 12:41:03 PM
Really good article.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: steve dave on November 08, 2013, 12:44:51 PM
jason whitlock is bitb
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: Emo EMAW on November 08, 2013, 01:38:32 PM
That's the best thing he's ever written. 
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on November 08, 2013, 01:57:14 PM
I didn't know Olbermann was back on the air. How did he keep from yelling "Incognito is the WORST PERSON IN THE WORLD!!!"
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: sys on November 08, 2013, 02:14:35 PM
whitlock's piece was equal parts perceptive and stupid.

it's perceptive to note and explain the idiocy of the culture that can describe a particularly foul and aggressive white man as an honorary black man.  it's equally as stupid to tacitly assume that black players should naturally prefer the company and associate with other black players, even if they share little in common in culture and upbringing.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: michigancat on November 08, 2013, 02:30:58 PM
Whitlock is the BITB at putting black people in their place and getting white people to cheer him on
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: ChiComCat on November 08, 2013, 02:31:39 PM
I just don't get why some white people want to use the N-word so damn badly
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: star seed 7 on November 08, 2013, 02:33:30 PM
I just don't get why some white people want to use the N-word so damn badly

is this really the issue?
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: steve dave on November 08, 2013, 02:34:57 PM
I just don't get why some white people want to use the N-word so damn badly

is this really the issue?

the issue is richie incognito being a shitty human being
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on November 08, 2013, 02:36:35 PM
I just don't get why some white people want to use the N-word so damn badly

Seems like it's an accepted word in some locker rooms.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: star seed 7 on November 08, 2013, 02:36:59 PM
I just don't get why some white people want to use the N-word so damn badly

is this really the issue?

the issue is richie incognito being a shitty human being

well there is no denying that.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: CNS on November 08, 2013, 02:41:18 PM
I just don't get why some white people want to use the N-word so damn badly

is this really the issue?

the issue is richie incognito being a shitty human being

And that it was not only allowed to happen for that long of a time, but that it is rumored to have been something his Line coach encouraged him doing to toughen up Martin.

Also, The GM said that Martin should have just fought Incognito.  So, the head of a billion dollar org is saying that two multi million dollar assets should fight each other on team property due to behavior that was encouraged by those in power.  I mean, I am no lawyer, but......
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: ChiComCat on November 08, 2013, 02:59:20 PM
I just don't get why some white people want to use the N-word so damn badly

is this really the issue?

I think its part of the issue in this article, not the overall bullying issue.  If a black friend came to me and said it was ok if I used the N-word, I wouldn't do it anyway.  Its risk/reward.  What benefit do I get out of it?  I feel guilty if I use it.  Maybe I get to feel like I'm getting away with something.  What if someone overhears or a ridiculous voicemail spreads across family and friends?  I get called a racist.  No thanks.  I am fine not using it.

Incognito is without a doubt a crap human being.  Generally, anybody white who wants to use that word is.

Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: steve dave on November 08, 2013, 03:04:03 PM
I just don't get why some white people want to use the N-word so damn badly

is this really the issue?

I think its part of the issue in this article, not the overall bullying issue.  If a black friend came to me and said it was ok if I used the N-word, I wouldn't do it anyway.  Its risk/reward.  What benefit do I get out of it?  I feel guilty if I use it.  Maybe I get to feel like I'm getting away with something.  What if someone overhears or a ridiculous voicemail spreads across family and friends?  I get called a racist.  No thanks.  I am fine not using it.

Incognito is without a doubt a crap human being.  Generally, anybody white who wants to use that word is.

yeah
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: star seed 7 on November 08, 2013, 03:35:58 PM
I just don't get why some white people want to use the N-word so damn badly

is this really the issue?

I think its part of the issue in this article, not the overall bullying issue.  If a black friend came to me and said it was ok if I used the N-word, I wouldn't do it anyway.  Its risk/reward.  What benefit do I get out of it?  I feel guilty if I use it.  Maybe I get to feel like I'm getting away with something.  What if someone overhears or a ridiculous voicemail spreads across family and friends?  I get called a racist.  No thanks.  I am fine not using it.

Incognito is without a doubt a crap human being.  Generally, anybody white who wants to use that word is.

i can't think of an instance in general conversation where it would be needed or appropriate, so i agree with you 100 percent on that.

but, for conversation, i love rap music, and my 2 favorite comedians are black (chappelle and katt williams).  there is a certain elite goEMAWer who in conversation during a biggie song said it wasn't cool, to him, for a white guy to say the word when singing along.  that's fine with me because i'm a respectful person and treat that request just the same way i wouldn't say $!#* around my grandma.  I've had black friends in the past, however, that don't care one bit.  they know i'm not using anything in a hateful way, just listening some good music (or watching a hilarious dvd) and singing along the same as they are.  i don't feel as though i'm getting away with anything, or feel guilty in the least.  i'm fully capable of censoring my language around those that would be offended by it, but why do i need to if they are not offended by it?

i think context makes a large difference, if that makes me a huge racist, then so be it.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: star seed 7 on November 08, 2013, 03:42:15 PM
calling someone a half-(beep) piece of crap falls into the context of hateful, imho tho.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: CNS on November 08, 2013, 03:54:02 PM
calling someone a half-(beep) piece of crap falls into the context of hateful, imho tho.

What if he rhymed it with something dope in the very next line and then ended the message with some beatboxing?
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: star seed 7 on November 08, 2013, 03:55:38 PM
calling someone a half-(beep) piece of crap falls into the context of hateful, imho tho.

What if he rhymed it with something dope in the very next line and then ended the message with some beatboxing?

white rappers?   :buh-bye:
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: CNS on November 08, 2013, 03:57:16 PM
calling someone a half-(beep) piece of crap falls into the context of hateful, imho tho.

What if he rhymed it with something dope in the very next line and then ended the message with some beatboxing?

white rappers?   :buh-bye:


Surprised it only took two pgs to get all extra racist up in here.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: star seed 7 on November 08, 2013, 03:57:53 PM
calling someone a half-(beep) piece of crap falls into the context of hateful, imho tho.

What if he rhymed it with something dope in the very next line and then ended the message with some beatboxing?

white rappers?   :buh-bye:


Surprised it only took two pgs to get all extra racist up in here.

 ;)
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: The Big Train on November 08, 2013, 04:03:30 PM
I played baseball with a guy in JUCO that also played on the football team.  He didn't mind if other teammates used it around him which some of them did(I never did and don't because I don't see any use for it in any context) his only thing was it had to be ended with an A.  Would not be tolerated the other way.  I don't understand the appeal or being "cool" for using that kind of language.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on November 08, 2013, 06:08:04 PM
The fact that certain speech in this country is censored according to race is racist. The whole issue is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: slobber on November 08, 2013, 06:26:38 PM
The fact that certain speech in this country is censored according to race is racist. The whole issue is ridiculous.
:thumbs:
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: sys on November 08, 2013, 06:28:30 PM
The fact that certain speech in this country is censored according to race is racist. The whole issue is ridiculous.

i mostly agree, although perhaps not in exactly the way you mean (to be fair, i don't know how you mean it).  i find it both hilarious and a little pathetic how uncomfortable the word "n-word" makes white midwesterners, myself included.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: michigancat on November 08, 2013, 06:32:07 PM
The fact that certain speech in this country is censored according to race is racist. The whole issue is ridiculous.

i mostly agree, although perhaps not in exactly the way you mean (to be fair, i don't know how you mean it).  i find it both hilarious and a little pathetic how uncomfortable the word "n-word" makes white midwesterners, myself included.

Why is it "pathetic"?
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: Headinjun on November 08, 2013, 06:40:24 PM
Confession:

I'm a little bit of a goof, and I have been a black comedy lover since I was a teen.

I do use th N word when repeating comedy jokes, and when acting like a complete dork who thinks he's in a SNL skit. 

But I would never use that word to describe someone. Never.


Am I wrong?
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on November 08, 2013, 06:44:49 PM
The fact that certain speech in this country is censored according to race is racist. The whole issue is ridiculous.

i mostly agree, although perhaps not in exactly the way you mean (to be fair, i don't know how you mean it).  i find it both hilarious and a little pathetic how uncomfortable the word "n-word" makes white midwesterners, myself included.

The word is offensive to me and should be to everyone, but until the people most offended by it stop saying it, the issue isn't worth discussion.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: michigancat on November 08, 2013, 06:49:57 PM
The fact that certain speech in this country is censored according to race is racist. The whole issue is ridiculous.

i mostly agree, although perhaps not in exactly the way you mean (to be fair, i don't know how you mean it).  i find it both hilarious and a little pathetic how uncomfortable the word "n-word" makes white midwesterners, myself included.

The word is offensive to me and should be to everyone, but until the people most offended by it stop saying it, the issue isn't worth discussion.

The context makes all the difference. Why shouldn't it? Nothing we say is just "words".
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on November 08, 2013, 07:00:57 PM
The fact that certain speech in this country is censored according to race is racist. The whole issue is ridiculous.

i mostly agree, although perhaps not in exactly the way you mean (to be fair, i don't know how you mean it).  i find it both hilarious and a little pathetic how uncomfortable the word "n-word" makes white midwesterners, myself included.

The word is offensive to me and should be to everyone, but until the people most offended by it stop saying it, the issue isn't worth discussion.

The context makes all the difference. Why shouldn't it? Nothing we say is just "words".

I know what you're saying and I do understand, but to say Incognito should be vilified for using it in the same context that a black player does is racist. It seems that as big a douche as Incognito may be, his black teammates don't see him as a racist at all, and they probably know him best.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: michigancat on November 08, 2013, 07:07:19 PM
The fact that certain speech in this country is censored according to race is racist. The whole issue is ridiculous.

i mostly agree, although perhaps not in exactly the way you mean (to be fair, i don't know how you mean it).  i find it both hilarious and a little pathetic how uncomfortable the word "n-word" makes white midwesterners, myself included.

The word is offensive to me and should be to everyone, but until the people most offended by it stop saying it, the issue isn't worth discussion.

The context makes all the difference. Why shouldn't it? Nothing we say is just "words".

I know what you're saying and I do understand, but to say Incognito should be vilified for using it in the same context that a black player does is racist. It seems that as big a douche as Incognito may be, his black teammates don't see him as a racist at all, and they probably know him best.

Incognito is a huge alpha dickhead. Obviously at least one black teammate had a problem with it, and I'm guessing more did but were afraid to speak up because of Incognito's personality and status in the locker room and with the front office.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: chum1 on November 08, 2013, 07:34:56 PM
Do honoraries need to worry about context?
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: michigancat on November 08, 2013, 07:45:46 PM
Do honoraries need to worry about context?

apparently they do
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: chum1 on November 08, 2013, 07:58:03 PM
Do honoraries need to worry about context?

apparently they do

But not as much as non-honoraries?  And the same amount as black people?  Or less?
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: michigancat on November 08, 2013, 08:00:25 PM
I need more context to decide
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on November 08, 2013, 08:37:47 PM
The fact that certain speech in this country is censored according to race is racist. The whole issue is ridiculous.

i mostly agree, although perhaps not in exactly the way you mean (to be fair, i don't know how you mean it).  i find it both hilarious and a little pathetic how uncomfortable the word "n-word" makes white midwesterners, myself included.

The word is offensive to me and should be to everyone, but until the people most offended by it stop saying it, the issue isn't worth discussion.

The context makes all the difference. Why shouldn't it? Nothing we say is just "words".

I know what you're saying and I do understand, but to say Incognito should be vilified for using it in the same context that a black player does is racist. It seems that as big a douche as Incognito may be, his black teammates don't see him as a racist at all, and they probably know him best.

Incognito is a huge alpha dickhead. Obviously at least one black teammate had a problem with it, and I'm guessing more did but were afraid to speak up because of Incognito's personality and status in the locker room and with the front office.

No doubt. I'm sure there are a lot of guys on the team that dislike him. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be hanging out with him.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: chum1 on November 08, 2013, 09:15:11 PM
I need more context to decide

I think I'm starting to understand this relationship.  One's honorary status is just a subset of context rather than a non-context dependent characterisitc like race.  Otherwise, an honorary's status wouldn't change from group to group, but clearly that is not the case. 
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: sys on November 08, 2013, 09:22:23 PM
Why is it "pathetic"?

because it's symptomatic of a extremely racialized society, and of our (white midwesterners particularly) discomfort with being confronted with that fact.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: michigancat on November 08, 2013, 09:45:20 PM
Why is it "pathetic"?

because it's symptomatic of a extremely racialized society, and of our (white midwesterners particularly) discomfort with being confronted with that fact.

I'm not sure what that really means.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: sys on November 08, 2013, 10:31:33 PM
I'm not sure what that really means.

you can ask katkid when you get back from your hipster concert.
Title: Re: Honorary Membership
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on November 08, 2013, 10:40:41 PM
Its ironic that his last name is "incognito"