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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: kstatefreak42 on July 05, 2013, 01:12:12 PM
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Thoughts on this violation of the United States Constitution?
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I feel safe knowing that 'freak42 is on the case.
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none
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I feel safe knowing that 'freak42 is on the case.
I am not on any case. I just want to know what the goEMAW'ers think of this.
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link?
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This must have been that big secret that Obama had that couldn't come out before the last election. Oh, man, what a doozy this president is.
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Frees our troops up to wash their jacked up Tacomas at Pillsbury. Win-win
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Thoughts on constantly being lied to by infowars?
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:lol:
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:eek:
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I routinely reply to crazy relative emails with a link to snopes.
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lol @ you people believing that MSM pinko rag that is Snopes
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Thoughts on this violation of the United States Constitution?
How would it be un-Constitutional?
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Thoughts on this violation of the United States Constitution?
How would it be un-Constitutional?
:dubious:
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Thoughts on this violation of the United States Constitution?
How would it be un-Constitutional?
:dubious:
I hear the term "un-Constitutional" used a lot to describe things. I'd just like to know why exactly this scenario violates the Constitution.
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Sometimes Infowars is pretty much spot on, but many other times they take little smidgens of a story and blow it up way out of proportion, and this was one story I didn't buy at all from the start.
Many of their other stories about DHS (for example) have been spot on . . . watching DHS fumble and stumble around about why they needed to purchase millions upon millions of rounds of ammunition was hilarious but scary. Infowars has been all over the militarization of the domestic police forces and the growing co-mingling of the U.S. military and domestic law enforcement, as well the growing number of DHS operated Internal Checkpoints.
You clearly have no grasp on the facts of these situations than. Also the checkpoints aren't really DHS, but rather CBP.
Furthermore, when people complain about police 'militarization' it shows the complete lack of knowledge for the challenges law enforcement faces and what the military actually uses.
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Thoughts on this violation of the United States Constitution?
How would it be un-Constitutional?
:dubious:
I hear the term "un-Constitutional" used a lot to describe things. I'd just like to know why exactly this scenario violates the Constitution.
98% sure he was being sarcastic, and if he wasn't I retract my :dubious: and direct it at him.
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Sometimes Infowars is pretty much spot on, but many other times they take little smidgens of a story and blow it up way out of proportion, and this was one story I didn't buy at all from the start.
Many of their other stories about DHS (for example) have been spot on . . . watching DHS fumble and stumble around about why they needed to purchase millions upon millions of rounds of ammunition was hilarious but scary. Infowars has been all over the militarization of the domestic police forces and the growing co-mingling of the U.S. military and domestic law enforcement, as well the growing number of DHS operated Internal Checkpoints.
You clearly have no grasp on the facts of these situations than. Also the checkpoints aren't really DHS, but rather CBP.
Furthermore, when people complain about police 'militarization' it shows the complete lack of knowledge for the challenges law enforcement faces and what the military actually uses.
Pretty much anyone that reads infowars is a dumbass. Radley Balko has done a much more thorough job of charting the militarization of police forces.
The problem is our police forces are increasingly being armed with redic crap like this:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.huffpost.com%2Fgen%2F501721%2Fthumbs%2Fs-BEARCAT-large.jpg&hash=1959345de509b49621b7c824479f01acc194d120)
The article talks about a 23,000 person town in New Hampshire buying one. Spare me the "what the officers are up against" crap.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/16/police-tank-purchase-new-hampshire_n_1279983.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/16/police-tank-purchase-new-hampshire_n_1279983.html)
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why are you anti that Dax?
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Seems like the military and police could learn from each other. Maybe swap some "pro tips".
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Yeah, weave and bop their way through posse comitatus just like the current and previous administrations and congress.
Like, what do you think they're planning to do? Conspiring to invade a city or something?
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:dunno:
It figures the indoctrinated too cool for schoolers wouldn't think think it was a big deal.
I mean a couple of guys with pressure cooker bombs brought a whole major city to a standstill, so you better conduct those 7 figure drills with Blackhawks dropping special forces on to roof tops at 3 am. You just never know when the Islamic Fundamentalist version of Hans Gruber is gonna try and still a few billion dollars worth of Bearer Bonds.
I'm asking why it's a big deal. Can you tell me why it's a big deal without using daxspeak?
I mean I understand the Boston thing, but I'm not sure how that's relevant our what your other references mean. I'm a sheeple, wake me up and explain things to me like a human that doesn't frequent infowars could understand.
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The lines between the military and civilian law enforcement have become extremely blurred. Thankfully the absurd change to the insurrection act in 2006 was put back into the bottle in 2008. However NDAA 2012 has possible significant implications in terms of the use of the U.S. military in domestic operations, particularly in the areas of indefinite detention and the ability of the federal gov't (the executive branch) to deem an individual(s) enemy combatants.
It has the potential to be an extremely slippery slope.
How have the lines between military and civilian police been extremely blurred? Like, an example?
I agree the way we handle "enemy combatants" is terrible policy and needs to change. But I think the military practicing with police (did that even happen for real?) is basically unrelated.
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The military and police forces learning to work together is a pretty good idea IMO.
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Seems like the military and police could learn from each other. Maybe swap some "pro tips".
Please tell me you are trolling. What do officers of the peace have to learn from warriors? Police are already out of control because they are ego maniacs with the force of guns/laws and can we please talk about why any police department needs this, let alone a quiet New England town?:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.huffpost.com%2Fgen%2F501721%2Fthumbs%2Fs-BEARCAT-large.jpg&hash=1959345de509b49621b7c824479f01acc194d120)
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Seems like the military and police could learn from each other. Maybe swap some "pro tips".
Please tell me you are trolling. What do officers of the peace have to learn from warriors? Police are already out of control because they are ego maniacs with the force of guns/laws and can we please talk about why any police department needs this, let alone a quiet New England town?:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.huffpost.com%2Fgen%2F501721%2Fthumbs%2Fs-BEARCAT-large.jpg&hash=1959345de509b49621b7c824479f01acc194d120)
To "Thunderstrike" terrorists taking over the Keene mall. It's like you didn't even read the article.
But in all honesty, is the issue not whatever Federal Grant paid for this? The police force was basically offered a free tank.
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Seems like the military and police could learn from each other. Maybe swap some "pro tips".
Please tell me you are trolling. What do officers of the peace have to learn from warriors? Police are already out of control because they are ego maniacs with the force of guns/laws and can we please talk about why any police department needs this, let alone a quiet New England town?:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.huffpost.com%2Fgen%2F501721%2Fthumbs%2Fs-BEARCAT-large.jpg&hash=1959345de509b49621b7c824479f01acc194d120)
To "Thunderstrike" terrorists taking over the Keene mall. It's like you didn't even read the article.
But in all honesty, is the issue not whatever Federal Grant paid for this? The police force was basically offered a free tank.
Oh absolutely. Some of the Terrorism/DEA grants are insane. But the effect on community/police interactions is where we see the biggest impact.
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The military and police forces learning to work together is a pretty good idea IMO.
SD's Police State moving Forward
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Seems like the military and police could learn from each other. Maybe swap some "pro tips".
Please tell me you are trolling. What do officers of the peace have to learn from warriors? Police are already out of control because they are ego maniacs with the force of guns/laws and can we please talk about why any police department needs this, let alone a quiet New England town?:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.huffpost.com%2Fgen%2F501721%2Fthumbs%2Fs-BEARCAT-large.jpg&hash=1959345de509b49621b7c824479f01acc194d120)
obviously they don't need that. but, I think that they need to have the ability to coordinate their activities in times of crisis. hurricanes, earthquakes, actual large terrorist something happening, it goes on.
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Seems like the military and police could learn from each other. Maybe swap some "pro tips".
Please tell me you are trolling. What do officers of the peace have to learn from warriors? Police are already out of control because they are ego maniacs with the force of guns/laws and can we please talk about why any police department needs this, let alone a quiet New England town?:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.huffpost.com%2Fgen%2F501721%2Fthumbs%2Fs-BEARCAT-large.jpg&hash=1959345de509b49621b7c824479f01acc194d120)
obviously they don't need that. but, I think that they need to have the ability to coordinate their activities in times of crisis. hurricanes, earthquakes, actual large terrorist something happening, it goes on.
do you want to live in a police state? do you!?!?
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Seems like the military and police could learn from each other. Maybe swap some "pro tips".
Please tell me you are trolling. What do officers of the peace have to learn from warriors? Police are already out of control because they are ego maniacs with the force of guns/laws and can we please talk about why any police department needs this, let alone a quiet New England town?:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.huffpost.com%2Fgen%2F501721%2Fthumbs%2Fs-BEARCAT-large.jpg&hash=1959345de509b49621b7c824479f01acc194d120)
obviously they don't need that. but, I think that they need to have the ability to coordinate their activities in times of crisis. hurricanes, earthquakes, actual large terrorist something happening, it goes on.
do you want to live in a police state? do you!?!?
no, and lol at people connecting this to living in one. I mean, what on earth.
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Seems like the military and police could learn from each other. Maybe swap some "pro tips".
Please tell me you are trolling. What do officers of the peace have to learn from warriors? Police are already out of control because they are ego maniacs with the force of guns/laws and can we please talk about why any police department needs this, let alone a quiet New England town?:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.huffpost.com%2Fgen%2F501721%2Fthumbs%2Fs-BEARCAT-large.jpg&hash=1959345de509b49621b7c824479f01acc194d120)
So much of the Iraq war was essentially urban police work. You don't think police and military could learn from each other's comparable experiences? Law enforcement may have better techniques for locating a suspect in a large building. The military could provide knowledge about large scale logistics that could help law enforcement during a disaster. I'm sure there are plenty of other areas where common knowledge would be very beneficial.
The concern I have with those silly tanks is that they're wasteful spending, not that we're looking at a joint police/military takeover of government.
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Wasteful spending is more of my concern, though I do think that arming police with more aggressive equipment will lead to bad results. Certainly not a police state, but more examples of unnecessary force being used. If they have the equipment, it is not a leap to think that some will look for an excuse to use it.
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Certainly not a police state, but more examples of unnecessary force being used.
so just a little more police state like?
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Certainly not a police state, but more examples of unnecessary force being used.
so just a little more police state like?
A police state would be to silence political dissent and repress the people. Cops using unnecessary force is not that. Cops using unnecessary force would be a couple idiots thinking its necessary to take their tank jeep to break up a bar fight.
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I'd take the tank jeep everywhere fwiw
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Certainly not a police state, but more examples of unnecessary force being used.
so just a little more police state like?
A police state would be to silence political dissent and repress the people. Cops using unnecessary force is not that. Cops using unnecessary force would be a couple idiots thinking its necessary to take their tank jeep to break up a bar fight.
I see what you're saying, but I think you could argue that jeep tank commandos could be considered kind of police statey.
I'd take the tank jeep everywhere fwiw
Maybe they would be faster to out run than the standard cop car?
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first day having a tank jeep and the MHK police force would spend the entire day patrolling pillsbury like bosses.
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I'd take the tank jeep everywhere fwiw
Keep an eye out at the local surplus store!
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first day having a tank jeep and the MHK police force would spend the entire day patrolling pillsbury like bosses.
Aggieville would rue that first tankjeep night!
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my chime in on the subject... fwiw.
I live in one of the biggest cities in the country, and have noticed within the last few months that the local PD and PD at the institution that I work at have been making changes to their uniforms and vehicles. The uniforms were the first thing I noticed... from a light blue button down top and black pants, to an all black uniform. I asked one of the officers that I speak regularly with what was up with the change... his response - "Homeland Security is giving us funding to match up with other departments."
A couple of weeks ago, I was walking in to grab lunch when three city officers were walking out, and I nonchalantly asked "whats up with the new paint schemes on some of the cars?" (they have changed from blue and white to black and white) One of the officers responded that there was no announcement, and they kind of just showed up with no real explanation. He was hesitant in his reaction and seemed uneasy with the question... I will admit that I was fishing for an answer, so any hesitation would seem exaggerated.
My point in all of this... the whole idea of blurring/blending the municipalities through funding by DHS is concerning.
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I bet racist toe gets really steamed watching carstop videos on youtube.
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Seems like the military and police could learn from each other. Maybe swap some "pro tips".
Please tell me you are trolling. What do officers of the peace have to learn from warriors? Police are already out of control because they are ego maniacs with the force of guns/laws and can we please talk about why any police department needs this, let alone a quiet New England town?:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.huffpost.com%2Fgen%2F501721%2Fthumbs%2Fs-BEARCAT-large.jpg&hash=1959345de509b49621b7c824479f01acc194d120)
So much of the Iraq war was essentially urban police work. You don't think police and military could learn from each other's comparable experiences? Law enforcement may have better techniques for locating a suspect in a large building. The military could provide knowledge about large scale logistics that could help law enforcement during a disaster. I'm sure there are plenty of other areas where common knowledge would be very beneficial.
The concern I have with those silly tanks is that they're wasteful spending, not that we're looking at a joint police/military takeover of government.
Rusty, SD:
My concern with them (more than the budgetary concern, which is obvious) is that once you have these things you dream up reasons to use them. So people getting accused of simple possession of a controlled substance now get hit with a flashbang and 10 dudes coming through their door with a battering ram on a no-knock warrant.
Considering the amount of vetrans already in law enforcement I have a hard time believing that more task forces, more grants, more cooperation between local police forces and the military is a net benefit. Also, huge lol that some local yokel is going to be informing SOP for the military in a war zone.
What in the hell are you talking about? As far as organizing for natural disasters etc. practically speaking none of that is going to be improved by this and that is not where the incentives drive the relationship now or in any probably future in the short term. Nearly all of the money comes from terrorism (homeland security/FBI etc.) or the DEA.
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kat kid! :love:
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yeah, I'm not concerned with any of that infowars police state garbage or anything else other than the obvious budget stuff. I've yet to see any link between this and any additional force being used. if one can be made then sure, it would be a problem.
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A police state would be to silence political dissent and repress the people. Cops using unnecessary force is not that. Cops using unnecessary force would be a couple idiots thinking its necessary to take their tank jeep to break up a bar fight.
Yeah, like using the Irs to intimidate the tea party, or wire tapping fox news reporters Telephones. That's more police statey than police tanks.
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A police state would be to silence political dissent and repress the people. Cops using unnecessary force is not that. Cops using unnecessary force would be a couple idiots thinking its necessary to take their tank jeep to break up a bar fight.
Yeah, like using the Irs to intimidate the tea party, or wire tapping fox news reporters Telephones. That's more police statey than police tanks.
to be fair, we're spying on every single American, not just fox news.
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Yay, police state!
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my chime in on the subject... fwiw.
I live in one of the biggest cities in the country, and have noticed within the last few months that the local PD and PD at the institution that I work at have been making changes to their uniforms and vehicles. The uniforms were the first thing I noticed... from a light blue button down top and black pants, to an all black uniform. I asked one of the officers that I speak regularly with what was up with the change... his response - "Homeland Security is giving us funding to match up with other departments."
A couple of weeks ago, I was walking in to grab lunch when three city officers were walking out, and I nonchalantly asked "whats up with the new paint schemes on some of the cars?" (they have changed from blue and white to black and white) One of the officers responded that there was no announcement, and they kind of just showed up with no real explanation. He was hesitant in his reaction and seemed uneasy with the question... I will admit that I was fishing for an answer, so any hesitation would seem exaggerated.
My point in all of this... the whole idea of blurring/blending the municipalities through funding by DHS is concerning.
Cop cars have been black and white and cops have been wearing black for 50 years
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Yeah, but the cop was totally uneasy when some antisemitic idiot interrogated him about it!
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Considering the amount of vetrans already in law enforcement I have a hard time believing that more task forces, more grants, more cooperation between local police forces and the military is a net benefit. Also, huge lol that some local yokel is going to be informing SOP for the military in a war zone.
you can "lol" at the completely hypothetical details, but it's ridiculous to think police couldn't learn something from military, and vice versa. I mean, you acknowledge police are "yokels", but at the same time say they pretty much know all they need to because so many of them are vets? Sure, collaboration and sharing of knowledge may not be necessary, but being afraid of potential collaboration is tin foil hat territory.
The rest of your post I basically agree with, other than it seems like you would like law enforcement to do what they are asked to do less effectively. What needs to change is what they are asked to do, perhaps.
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Yeah, but the cop was totally uneasy when some antisemitic idiot interrogated him about it!
Are you calling him a liar? Bc it's sounds like you're calling him a liar.
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I bet racist toe gets really steamed watching carstop videos on youtube.
oh man... you got me.
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Considering the amount of vetrans already in law enforcement I have a hard time believing that more task forces, more grants, more cooperation between local police forces and the military is a net benefit. Also, huge lol that some local yokel is going to be informing SOP for the military in a war zone.
1) you can "lol" at the completely hypothetical details, but it's ridiculous to think police couldn't learn something from military, and vice versa. I mean, you acknowledge police are "yokels", but at the same time say they pretty much know all they need to because so many of them are vets? Sure, collaboration and sharing of knowledge may not be necessary, but being afraid of potential collaboration is tin foil hat territory.
2) The rest of your post I basically agree with, other than it seems like you would like law enforcement to do what they are asked to do less effectively. What needs to change is what they are asked to do, perhaps.
I am not afraid of potential collaboration because I view it as a conspiracy. I think it is laughable that the half of a trillion dollar (+) military would be asking locally funded police for advice. Even if RCPD was ready share its wealth of knowledge on setting up DUI checkpoints or how bicycle cops can save on gas money, the military is never going to ask for it.
As for police, nearly every department of any size has a hand full of veterans in its force. Some of them may even have been, and I know I am blowing your mind here, military police. I fail to see what productive end could be served by providing military training to civilian officers who are, again, not in a warzone. A lot of police have an enormous hard on for guns and power and have several incredibly strong layers that protect them from facing any consequences when they abuse their power. Emboldening them to further militarize (with weapons, tactics, even a militaristic mindset) is precisely the wrong direction.
2) Yeah pretty much both of those if you view SWAT teams and military armored vehicles and flashbangs etc as police being effective.
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Considering the amount of vetrans already in law enforcement I have a hard time believing that more task forces, more grants, more cooperation between local police forces and the military is a net benefit. Also, huge lol that some local yokel is going to be informing SOP for the military in a war zone.
1) you can "lol" at the completely hypothetical details, but it's ridiculous to think police couldn't learn something from military, and vice versa. I mean, you acknowledge police are "yokels", but at the same time say they pretty much know all they need to because so many of them are vets? Sure, collaboration and sharing of knowledge may not be necessary, but being afraid of potential collaboration is tin foil hat territory.
2) The rest of your post I basically agree with, other than it seems like you would like law enforcement to do what they are asked to do less effectively. What needs to change is what they are asked to do, perhaps.
I am not afraid of potential collaboration because I view it as a conspiracy. I think it is laughable that the half of a trillion dollar (+) military would be asking locally funded police for advice. Even if RCPD was ready share its wealth of knowledge on setting up DUI checkpoints or how bicycle cops can save on gas money, the military is never going to ask for it.
As for police, nearly every department of any size has a hand full of veterans in its force. Some of them may even have been, and I know I am blowing your mind here, military police. I fail to see what productive end could be served by providing military training to civilian officers who are, again, not in a warzone. A lot of police have an enormous hard on for guns and power and have several incredibly strong layers that protect them from facing any consequences when they abuse their power. Emboldening them to further militarize (with weapons, tactics, even a militaristic mindset) is precisely the wrong direction.
2) Yeah pretty much both of those if you view SWAT teams and military armored vehicles and flashbangs etc as police being effective.
Do you think the military could have done anything a better job in Baghdad, or did they just rough ridin' nail it? Do you think they could have learned anything from the experience? Could anything they learned apply to police work, such as how they quickly got info from someone speaking a foreign language or recognizing suspicious vehicles? Heck, maybe they could help RCPD make their next DUI checkpoint cheaper and more effective.
Again, these are just hypothetical possibilities of beneficial knowledge that really should be shared, even if small-minded thinking and mind-blowing ex MP's are reasons they aren't shared. There is SOME useful overlap between police and military functions, and I don't see the harm in both realms having common best practices when it makes sense.
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Sure it is possible that something could be learned by getting a bunch of military and police in a room and swapping some tales. Maybe you can go too and try to figure out how to come up with a hypothetical that doesn't make you sound like a dumbass.
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:sdeek:
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:sdeek:
someone needed a nap. :surprised:
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How do you choose which of the million or so military men and which of the million or so policemen go to this brainstorming pow wow? Is just combat/law enforcement covered or are other topics (office attire, sexual harassment, PTO, etc.) also discussed? How do the reps of the police department disseminate all the hip new ideas to the thousands of local law enforcement offices not represented? Does the fire department or coast guard get an invite?
I'm curious because this bouncing ideas off one another idea sounds like a really well thought and reasoned approach to improving local law enforcement and enhancing those responsible for preserving our nations sovereignty. Not just some pathetic "outside the box" thinly veiled partisan remark to justify whatever unsavorory action our idiot commander in chief got caught doing this week.
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Maybe neighborhood lifeguards could hook up with the Navy Seals to bounce around rescue techniques and strategies?
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I'm guessing you saw this michigancat?
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/07/09/a-mini-military-industrial-complex-ctd-2/ (http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/07/09/a-mini-military-industrial-complex-ctd-2/)
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I'm guessing you saw this michigancat?
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/07/09/a-mini-military-industrial-complex-ctd-2/ (http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/07/09/a-mini-military-industrial-complex-ctd-2/)
warm up the tin foil hats
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I'm guessing you saw this michigancat?
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/07/09/a-mini-military-industrial-complex-ctd-2/ (http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/07/09/a-mini-military-industrial-complex-ctd-2/)
I did, and I would agree that things like conducting unnecessary SWAT raids and dismissing or flat-out ignoring the 4th amendment is a problem.
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Can you imagine if RCPD got some military style stuff how hard they'd trash Fake Patties Day? It would be like when the 101st blocked off Sadr City