"little disappointing" not going a game further than last year
Angel: dug self into hole with 1st half
Just remember ed hated Jake too. Not that it means Angel will also go down as the leading scorer at the school, but it gives a background to ed's credibility.yeah hated or I had a terrible meltdown for reasons which were later validated. But whatever you need to think to sleep at night.
Who is arguing against that fan? I would question anyone who said that Angel didn't hurt this team in, a grand total of, 3 games.
Angel had a bad game. On record having already said that. That said, he didn't lose this game for us. He looked down Holloway second half. He did have 3 horrible to's in the first half.That sir is a very fair point. I do agree when playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end is hurting the team.
As for will not hurting us, what else do you call it when we continue starting him yet he hasn't been able to stay in front of a guard for a month.
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Will 's entire season has been either missed open shots or not taking one's he should have taken. Sign me up for a kid taking horrid shots every once in a while over what will has done.
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um Kstate lost because Lasalle didn't make a single FG the last 7:18 of the game....and you guys let them take the game...that's on ksu...if they can't score a basket for almost 8 minutes and still win? lol horrible
I guess I would ask people to examine which they value more. A player making standard facilitation plays which every major D1 PG should make or a player who can good plays while absolutely hurting his team.Who is arguing against that fan? I would question anyone who said that Angel didn't hurt this team in, a grand total of, 3 games.
The problem is even in the games Angel wasn't his best, he still made plenty of plays. Angel was a key in K-State coming back from an 18 point deficit.
And no one here has acknowledged that Angel was the one who locked down Galloway in the 2nd half on defense. After 15 points in the 1st half Galloway made 4 FTs in the 2nd, mainly because of Angel's defense. So I'll concede that Angel struggled shooting and made some poor passes, but he was also a key reason K-State had a shot to win and didn't lose by 20.
I guess I would ask people to examine which they value more. A player making standard facilitation plays which every major D1 PG should make or a player who can good plays while absolutely hurting his team.Who is arguing against that fan? I would question anyone who said that Angel didn't hurt this team in, a grand total of, 3 games.
The problem is even in the games Angel wasn't his best, he still made plenty of plays. Angel was a key in K-State coming back from an 18 point deficit.
And no one here has acknowledged that Angel was the one who locked down Galloway in the 2nd half on defense. After 15 points in the 1st half Galloway made 4 FTs in the 2nd, mainly because of Angel's defense. So I'll concede that Angel struggled shooting and made some poor passes, but he was also a key reason K-State had a shot to win and didn't lose by 20.
look at the fist half, Galloway's first point. Angel was on him, completely and totally lost him, and made Shane switch out to him late while Galloway was triggering an open 3. Angel than comes down to take an Awful guarded 3 for an airball. Angel than allows Galloway to drive all the way to the restricted area, forcing the defense to suck in, allowing yet another wide open 3. So I don't think its fair to credit Angel for a comeback form a deficit he was instrumental in creating because of poor defense and selfish shots. I believe a lot of this is maturation rather than skill set, but in big games, (ku/@ku/NCAA) he still isn't allowing the system to work for him and his teammates. In the second half he allowed the system to work for him and his teammates and that is what triggered the comeback. Now at the end of the game he takes the ball out of his own hands to let Shane/JO do what they did while he disappears on the block for no particular reason. The final possession he goes to the damn corner of the court, the worst place possible, for a horrid shot while never really looking for another option.
I guess I would ask people to examine which they value more. A player making standard facilitation plays which every major D1 PG should make or a player who can good plays while absolutely hurting his team.Who is arguing against that fan? I would question anyone who said that Angel didn't hurt this team in, a grand total of, 3 games.
The problem is even in the games Angel wasn't his best, he still made plenty of plays. Angel was a key in K-State coming back from an 18 point deficit.
And no one here has acknowledged that Angel was the one who locked down Galloway in the 2nd half on defense. After 15 points in the 1st half Galloway made 4 FTs in the 2nd, mainly because of Angel's defense. So I'll concede that Angel struggled shooting and made some poor passes, but he was also a key reason K-State had a shot to win and didn't lose by 20.
Stewart was not a standard facilitation guard for 3/4 years. Huggs made him into a serviceable guard his last year, who really didn't impact things till later in the year. I think you are undervaluing him in order to make your point, especially when you say we would be .500 with Stew and a tournament team with Will, that is just absurd.I guess I would ask people to examine which they value more. A player making standard facilitation plays which every major D1 PG should make or a player who can good plays while absolutely hurting his team.Who is arguing against that fan? I would question anyone who said that Angel didn't hurt this team in, a grand total of, 3 games.
The problem is even in the games Angel wasn't his best, he still made plenty of plays. Angel was a key in K-State coming back from an 18 point deficit.
And no one here has acknowledged that Angel was the one who locked down Galloway in the 2nd half on defense. After 15 points in the 1st half Galloway made 4 FTs in the 2nd, mainly because of Angel's defense. So I'll concede that Angel struggled shooting and made some poor passes, but he was also a key reason K-State had a shot to win and didn't lose by 20.
Put a "standard facilitation" PG (like Clent Stewart) on this team and we are maybe .500 (at best) in the Big 12. I'll take a playmaker at PG who occasionally makes mistakes every single time. I value that much more, and I'd say 90% of college coaches would agree. And the 10% that don't are getting fired soon.
Stewart was not a standard facilitation guard for 3/4 years. Huggs made him into a serviceable guard his last year, who really didn't impact things till later in the year. I think you are undervaluing him in order to make your point, especially when you say we would be .500 with Stew and a tournament team with Will, that is just absurd.I guess I would ask people to examine which they value more. A player making standard facilitation plays which every major D1 PG should make or a player who can good plays while absolutely hurting his team.Who is arguing against that fan? I would question anyone who said that Angel didn't hurt this team in, a grand total of, 3 games.
The problem is even in the games Angel wasn't his best, he still made plenty of plays. Angel was a key in K-State coming back from an 18 point deficit.
And no one here has acknowledged that Angel was the one who locked down Galloway in the 2nd half on defense. After 15 points in the 1st half Galloway made 4 FTs in the 2nd, mainly because of Angel's defense. So I'll concede that Angel struggled shooting and made some poor passes, but he was also a key reason K-State had a shot to win and didn't lose by 20.
Put a "standard facilitation" PG (like Clent Stewart) on this team and we are maybe .500 (at best) in the Big 12. I'll take a playmaker at PG who occasionally makes mistakes every single time. I value that much more, and I'd say 90% of college coaches would agree. And the 10% that don't are getting fired soon.
And its one thing for a player to make a few plays and screw a few up, I mean we're talking about an underclassmen, so its going to happen. The problem is that Angel's mistakes cluster around a very small few games. When those mistakes come, it hurts the entirety of the game. Whats worse, is that it happens in high value games.
At the end of the day Angel maturation curve has been STEEP for the vast majority of the season making great strides in all aspects of his game. The results speak for themselves. No one can argue we would be where we are with Will at the helm. It just bothers me that many members here are over valuing Angel now in reaction to what they want/think Angel will be, and reacting against Tuckist latent racism.
This team would not have been in the NCAA tournament, let alone a 4 seed, without Angel. I'm not sure I can say the same about Will. Will did enough that we probably wouldn't have won a Big 12 title, but still been a tournament team.How so? You're saying Will as a replacement to Angel.
And this is not about what the the team would've been like with a replacement player, just what the team would've been like without either one.
Angel earned his 2nd team All Big 12 honor.
Your opinions about everything are absolutely awful, Ed.you must have lbbiq, because just about everyone agrees that Angel was off against LS. Sorry you don't see it that way.
Your opinions about everything are absolutely awful, Ed.you must have lbbiq, because just about everyone agrees that Angel was off against LS. Sorry you don't see it that way.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-K9VSr1UKAtU%2FT9UqY7fAF_I%2FAAAAAAAACGw%2FVBxtyJbxX78%2Fs1600%2Ffree%2Bhug.bmp&hash=a7938b4ac9801dc604f9d85ed7511a5508a1403c)Your opinions about everything are absolutely awful, Ed.you must have lbbiq, because just about everyone agrees that Angel was off against LS. Sorry you don't see it that way.
If I were rating the biggest reasons we lost, Angel might make the cut at 4th. And if I were rating posters, you'd be behind ljmhawk.
How so? You're saying Will as a replacement to Angel.
And yes Tay had a bad game. Yes Rod was off, being -2.6 points off his average. But we don't rely on Tay for points at a 5.1 (-3.1 for the game) avg versus missing out on 9.4 pts from Angel. See this is the paradigm which is so concerning. If you're hardcore team Angel it was everyone else's fault, Angel can do no wrong. I wonder how many people who are hardcore team Angel also trashed Cassell all year in the NFL threads.
I like the way you phrased it as him keeping both teams in the game. And the Cassell comparo was simply because they were both in the position to drive the team, more of a PG = QB rather than a Angel = Cassell. I also get what you were saying with Will, the "replacement" line is what got me.
do you guys think ednksu is a real person?
do you guys think ednksu is a real person?
for a long time, i thought you and he were the same person.
Just remember ed hated Jake too. Not that it means Angel will also go down as the leading scorer at the school, but it gives a background to ed's credibility.yeah hated or I had a terrible meltdown for reasons which were later validated. But whatever you need to think to sleep at night.
do you guys think ednksu is a real person?
for a long time, i thought you and he were the same person.
how do you know we aren't?
I'm running out of do you need a hug pics for people's idiocy.Just remember ed hated Jake too. Not that it means Angel will also go down as the leading scorer at the school, but it gives a background to ed's credibility.yeah hated or I had a terrible meltdown for reasons which were later validated. But whatever you need to think to sleep at night.
that you think you were later validated shows you to be stupider than your original hatred did.
do you guys think ednksu is a real person?
for a long time, i thought you and he were the same person.
how do you know we aren't?
i asked chingon.
(b) try to somehow break the stats that say that Soph Angel is as good if not better than Soph Pullen,
(b) try to somehow break the stats that say that Soph Angel is as good if not better than Soph Pullen,
These are the situations where statsheet is the best:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=jacob-pullen&i=1&jacob-pullen=2008-2009&p1=angel-rodriguez
(b) try to somehow break the stats that say that Soph Angel is as good if not better than Soph Pullen,
These are the situations where statsheet is the best:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=jacob-pullen&i=1&jacob-pullen=2008-2009&p1=angel-rodriguez
Wait, are you trying to confirm zacker's point or argue against it?
and thats with angel playing a slower pace(b) try to somehow break the stats that say that Soph Angel is as good if not better than Soph Pullen,
These are the situations where statsheet is the best:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=jacob-pullen&i=1&jacob-pullen=2008-2009&p1=angel-rodriguez
Wait, are you trying to confirm zacker's point or argue against it?
I simply provided a resource.* :D
*Very similar, with assists Angel may get the slight nod.
(b) try to somehow break the stats that say that Soph Angel is as good if not better than Soph Pullen,
These are the situations where statsheet is the best:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=jacob-pullen&i=1&jacob-pullen=2008-2009&p1=angel-rodriguez
Wait, are you trying to confirm zacker's point or argue against it?
I simply provided a resource.* :D
*Very similar, with assists Angel may get the slight nod.
| Ht | Wt | Yr | G | %Min | ORtg | %Poss | %Shots | eFG% | TS% | OR% | DR% | ARate | TORate | Blk% | Stl% | FC/40 | FD/40 | FTRate | FTM-FTA | Pct | 2PM-2PA | Pct | 3PM-3PA | Pct | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2009 | Kansas St. National Rank | 6-0 | 200 | So | 34 | 74.7 | 101.7 | 24.9 355 | 26.2 328 | 47.3 | 51.0 | 2.6 | 7.7 | 21.4 370 | 22.0 | 0.2 | 3.0 251 | 2.9 | 4.3 | 31.0 | 91-125 | .728 | 78-179 | .436 | 75-224 | .335 |
| 2013 | Kansas St. 4 National Rank | 5-11 | 180 | So | 33 | 66.4 | 107.4 | 25.8 266 | 24.0 | 44.7 | 50.6 | 2.2 | 6.7 | 37.3 24 | 20.4 | 0.0 | 3.4 166 | 3.0 | 4.1 | 34.2 | 90-109 | .826 | 60-159 | .377 | 55-160 | .344 |
If I talked about how stupid many posts in this thread are would I be guilty of secretly drive-by attacking a poster? I mean the dye was cast when the first 10 posts were by the same dude.Same talking points over and over again from teampseudo. Get over yourselves. And no it wouldn't be a drive by because I'm here. Maybe you can threaten real world violence again over message board banter you tuck.
edn telling Chingon that his calling Jake a pussy was later justified was the high(low)light for me.
Will was fine as a role player for a decent stretgh before he got hurt. The problem was it was limited mainly to the month of February, before and after that he wasn't very good.
How so? You're saying Will as a replacement to Angel.
And yes Tay had a bad game. Yes Rod was off, being -2.6 points off his average. But we don't rely on Tay for points at a 5.1 (-3.1 for the game) avg versus missing out on 9.4 pts from Angel. See this is the paradigm which is so concerning. If you're hardcore team Angel it was everyone else's fault, Angel can do no wrong. I wonder how many people who are hardcore team Angel also trashed Cassell all year in the NFL threads.
I meant take Will off the team (with no replacement) or take Angel off the team. W/out Angel this team is not a tournament team; without Will it is.
Cassell is an awful comparison to Angel simply because he's a game manager at QB, and Angel is far from a game manager.
But to your point, Angel's offensive rating of 44 from the game (his lowest of the season) in 36 minutes of play definitely shows that he struggled. But I won't concede it was a game where he hurt us more than he helped us. You could maybe say he kept both teams in the game, but as much as he hurt us, he helped us even more in the 2nd half comeback. If anything, it was disappointing he only put up 4 shots and only 2 threes; him hitting 3s when opponents played off of him on ball screens was a big reason this team won as many games as it did.
It's just tough for me to accept the starting SG being nothing but a role player. If Will is going to start at the 2, I want him to average double digits, especially when the 1 is as great at distributing the ball as Angel is.
If Angel can start making more lay-ups or develop a mid range floater, holy hell.
If Angel can start making more lay-ups or develop a mid range floater, holy hell.
I honestly don't think I've seen Angel ever make a mid range shot. All 3's and layups.
If Angel can start making more lay-ups or develop a mid range floater, holy hell.
I honestly don't think I've seen Angel ever make a mid range shot. All 3's and layups.
That has a lot more to do with good shot selection than ability, imo. I don't think anybody should ever shoot a mid-range jumper unless the shot clock is about to expire or something.
If Angel can start making more lay-ups or develop a mid range floater, holy hell.
I honestly don't think I've seen Angel ever make a mid range shot. All 3's and layups.
That has a lot more to do with good shot selection than ability, imo. I don't think anybody except Shane Southwell should ever shoot a mid-range jumper unless the shot clock is about to expire or something.
Will was fine as a role player for a decent stretgh before he got hurt. The problem was it was limited mainly to the month of February, before and after that he wasn't very good.