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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kim carnes on March 12, 2013, 03:05:26 PM
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He went to the national championship. Let that sink in for a moment.
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kc it's sank so deep I don't know if I should puke or crap.
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king oscar sits on his throne while being serviced by the finest emaw bachelorettes available.
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oscar should totally just move ever year or two and go to the NC every time. Every Time!
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it was actually his second season at Illinois when they went to the ship... so next year, shane leads the cats to the title. :ksu:
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It was his second, he went to the sweet sixteen his first.
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Welp, good try Carnes
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Welp, good try Carnes
oscar is still the king. long live king oscar.
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Bad Kim.... Bad......
Instead you should say this is probably going to be his best chance to win a National Championship here in Manhattan. Unless you think we can improve or stay the same next year.
Illinois was seeded in the tournament
No NCAA in 2012
#9 in 2011
No NCAA in 2010
#5 in 2009
no NCAA in 2008
#12 in 2007
#4 in 2006
#1 in 2005
#5 in 2004
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Prolly should fire oscar as soon as the season's over so we can hire to be our first-year coach again.
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All hail the king!
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Bad Kim.... Bad......
Instead you should say this is probably going to be his best chance to win a National Championship here in Manhattan. Unless you think we can improve or stay the same next year.
Illinois was seeded in the tournament
No NCAA in 2012
#9 in 2011
No NCAA in 2010
#5 in 2009
no NCAA in 2008
#12 in 2007
#4 in 2006
#1 in 2005
#5 in 2004
Are you arguing history will repeat itself? In which case we'll be a #1 seed next year. Or are you arguing perhaps he'll follow a different path at KSU than he did at Illinois? Either way Frank, shouldn't you be preparing for your game against Mississippi State?
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History is (octagon of) doomed to repeat itself.
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2004 Illini leading scorers 2005 Leading Scorers
Deron Williams Luther Head
Dee Brown Dee Brown
Roger Powell Jr. Deron Williams
Luther Head Roger Powell Jr.
James Augustine James Augustine
oscar is doing well with Frank's players but next year some of them won't be there..........
Hope I am wrong because winning Big 12 Championships is fun. :ksu:
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2004 Illini leading scorers 2005 Leading Scorers
Deron Williams Luther Head
Dee Brown Dee Brown
Roger Powell Jr. Deron Williams
Luther Head Roger Powell Jr.
James Augustine James Augustine
oscar is doing well with Frank's players but next year some of them won't be there..........
Hope I am wrong because winning Big 12 Championships is fun. :ksu:
Interesting. Which of our 2013 players do you see as equvalent to the 2004 Illini? (Since your logic is Weber can only win with players at the level of the 2004 Illini n' stuff.)
Rod = Deron Williams?
Angel = Dee Brown?
Southwell = Roger Powell?
Spradling = Luther Head?
Gipson = James Augustine?
Did I get it right?
Well, we got 4 of the 5 coming back so,... :gocho:
P.S. Let me be the first (second after clams) to congratulate Rod on being the #3 overall pick in the upcoming draft!
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2004 Illini leading scorers 2005 Leading Scorers
Deron Williams Luther Head
Dee Brown Dee Brown
Roger Powell Jr. Deron Williams
Luther Head Roger Powell Jr.
James Augustine James Augustine
oscar is doing well with Frank's players but next year some of them won't be there..........
Hope I am wrong because winning Big 12 Championships is fun. :ksu:
Interesting. Which of our 2013 players do you see as equvalent to the 2004 Illini? (Since your logic is Weber can only win with players at the level of the 2004 Illini n' stuff.)
Rod = Deron Williams?
Angel = Dee Brown?
Southwell = Roger Powell?
Spradling = Luther Head?
Gipson = James Augustine?
Did I get it right?
Well, we got 4 of the 5 coming back so,... :gocho:
P.S. Let me be the first (second after clams) to congratulate Rod on being the #3 overall pick in the upcoming draft!
Longtime Illini fan here and you got it pretty close. I will never forget that 2005 run and especially those players. Everyone of them was a gym rat. They could always be found together day or night. They were the most unselfish team I had ever seen. They were a thing of beauty on the floor.
Your team has alot of the traits that the 2005 team did. I really enjoyed watching them. It was obvious they and the coaching staff were having fun. Same as the Illini 2005 team. I know that the coaches have to have sensed the same traits in the KSU players.
And you got you one hardnosed basketball player turned coach in Chester. He was one of my favorite players.
I am hoping you guys pick up the tourney championship and go far in the NCAA tourney. Alot of us will be following when we can get you on tv.
Congratulations.
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Well the studly feature of the 2013 team isn't that we have 4 NBA players.... its that we have a very deep team that could legitimately go 8 deep and not miss a beat. Our bench was the best in the Big 12 and I don't think that it is even close. Tay, JO, and Omari would be starting on a bunch of teams in our league. Orris would be playing Significant Minutes at Illinois had oscar been given another year.
We are losing Rodney, Tay and JO..... and each will be missed in their own way. Strangely, I think it will be JO's defense and rebounding that will be missed the most. We recruited no true centers hopefully Diaz, DJamer and Gipson get quite a bit better and the new 6'9'' recruit will be good.
I realize that it is hard to find and train a big man and to realistically expect to find a 6'11" guy that can start is a stretch. However, we need to try and find some guys to start working in order to have quality bigs in year 3 and 4 of the oscar Administration (in time for reelection).
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the team that Self left Weber at Illinois was loaded with talent. Even Scott Drew could have coached those guys to an elite eight probably. That's not a dig on Weber, he's a damn good game coach, but the greatness of that 05 team was mostly Bill Self's recruiting.
weber needs to have some success with this years team (in the tournament) and capitalize on it through recruiting. At Illinois he followed up the 05 title game run by pissing off a bunch of aau coaches in chicago and sealing his fate on the recruiting trail for a while. He won't make that mistake twice.
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Omari would be starting on a bunch of teams in our league. Orris would be playing Significant Minutes at Illinois had oscar been given another year
U srs, bro?
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the team that Self left Weber at Illinois was loaded with talent. Even Scott Drew could have coached those guys to an elite eight probably. That's not a dig on Weber, he's a damn good game coach, but the greatness of that 05 team was mostly Bill Self's recruiting.
weber needs to have some success with this years team (in the tournament) and capitalize on it through recruiting. At Illinois he followed up the 05 title game run by pissing off a bunch of aau coaches in chicago and sealing his fate on the recruiting trail for a while. He won't make that mistake twice.
Deron Williams hates Bill Self.
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the team that Self left Weber at Illinois was loaded with talent. Even Scott Drew could have coached those guys to an elite eight probably. That's not a dig on Weber, he's a damn good game coach, but the greatness of that 05 team was mostly Bill Self's recruiting.
weber needs to have some success with this years team (in the tournament) and capitalize on it through recruiting. At Illinois he followed up the 05 title game run by pissing off a bunch of aau coaches in chicago and sealing his fate on the recruiting trail for a while. He won't make that mistake twice.
Deron Williams hates Bill Self.
well he did leave him so I don't blame him if true. I heard that a long time ago but I'm not sure it's true today.
weber tried to go behind two aau coaches backs and sign players when their 'handlers' weren't around. Sherron Collins was one of those players fwiw. They (aau coaches) basically black listed him and pretty much all the elite talent refused to talk to him or his staff after that for a while. Illinois is a job that revolves around the ability to recruit chicago, so he kind of screwed himself.
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the team that Self left Weber at Illinois was loaded with talent. Even Scott Drew could have coached those guys to an elite eight probably. That's not a dig on Weber, he's a damn good game coach, but the greatness of that 05 team was mostly Bill Self's recruiting.
weber needs to have some success with this years team (in the tournament) and capitalize on it through recruiting. At Illinois he followed up the 05 title game run by pissing off a bunch of aau coaches in chicago and sealing his fate on the recruiting trail for a while. He won't make that mistake twice.
Deron Williams hates Bill Self.
well he did leave him so I don't blame him if true. I heard that a long time ago but I'm not sure it's true today.
weber tried to go behind two aau coaches backs and sign players when their 'handlers' weren't around. Sherron Collins was one of those players fwiw. They (aau coaches) basically black listed him and pretty much all the elite talent refused to talk to him or his staff after that for a while. Illinois is a job that revolves around the ability to recruit chicago, so he kind of screwed himself.
that's a cool story, but the real reason why collins signed at ku is because he got paid to by kurtis townsend.
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the team that Self left Weber at Illinois was loaded with talent. Even Scott Drew could have coached those guys to an elite eight probably. That's not a dig on Weber, he's a damn good game coach, but the greatness of that 05 team was mostly Bill Self's recruiting.
weber needs to have some success with this years team (in the tournament) and capitalize on it through recruiting. At Illinois he followed up the 05 title game run by pissing off a bunch of aau coaches in chicago and sealing his fate on the recruiting trail for a while. He won't make that mistake twice.
Deron Williams hates Bill Self.
well he did leave him so I don't blame him if true. I heard that a long time ago but I'm not sure it's true today.
weber tried to go behind two aau coaches backs and sign players when their 'handlers' weren't around. Sherron Collins was one of those players fwiw. They (aau coaches) basically black listed him and pretty much all the elite talent refused to talk to him or his staff after that for a while. Illinois is a job that revolves around the ability to recruit chicago, so he kind of screwed himself.
that's a cool story, but the real reason why collins signed at ku is because he got paid to by kurtis townsend.
That's a cool story with no proof other than the clams assertion
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do you really mean to tell me you're claiming townsend doesn't have a shady past and hasn't been paying players for years?
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do you really mean to tell me you're claiming townsend doesn't have a shady past and hasn't been paying players for years?
I'm not claiming that. I was referring to your claim he paid Sherron, no proof of that happening. Before you ask, yes I have read your long post about the history of bill Self's cheating and in there there is no proof other than your speculation about Sherron.
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do you really mean to tell me you're claiming townsend doesn't have a shady past and hasn't been paying players for years?
I'm not claiming that. I was referring to your claim he paid Sherron, no proof of that happening. Before you ask, yes I have read your long post about the history of bill Self's cheating and in there there is no proof other than your speculation about Sherron.
ya i guess you're right. i don't have a picture of the scumbag handing sherron a bag of cash.
it makes complete sense that when bill self was looking for an assistant it was townsend's impeccable employment history that made him so attractive.
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do you really mean to tell me you're claiming townsend doesn't have a shady past and hasn't been paying players for years?
I'm not claiming that. I was referring to your claim he paid Sherron, no proof of that happening. Before you ask, yes I have read your long post about the history of bill Self's cheating and in there there is no proof other than your speculation about Sherron.
ya i guess you're right. i don't have a picture of the scumbag handing sherron a bag of cash.
it makes complete sense that when bill self was looking for an assistant it was townsend's impeccable employment history that made him so attractive.
All I am saying is that all of this with Sherron is purely speculative. Nothing wrong with having suspicions, but to try and pass them off as fact when there is no evidence is pretty petty and disingenuous in my mind.
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Why doesn't KU embrace their MCMW? I don't get it.
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Why doesn't KU embrace their MCMW? I don't get it.
Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know the acronym.
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more criminals more wins
Basically that if you're willing to cheat to win then you want to win pretty rough ridin' bad, which (to me) is an honorable thing.
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do you really mean to tell me you're claiming townsend doesn't have a shady past and hasn't been paying players for years?
I'm not claiming that. I was referring to your claim he paid Sherron, no proof of that happening. Before you ask, yes I have read your long post about the history of bill Self's cheating and in there there is no proof other than your speculation about Sherron.
ya i guess you're right. i don't have a picture of the scumbag handing sherron a bag of cash.
it makes complete sense that when bill self was looking for an assistant it was townsend's impeccable employment history that made him so attractive.
All I am saying is that all of this with Sherron is purely speculative. Nothing wrong with having suspicions, but to try and pass them off as fact when there is no evidence is pretty petty and disingenuous in my mind.
the oscar/sherron/aau crap is speculative. the idea that oscar was unable to recruit local talent is wrong. in 2011 he signed a class ranked 11th nationally, including 4 top 100's, all from the chicago area.
there's no disputing kurt townsend's history and there's nothing petty or disingenuous about acknowledging it.
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MEANS
MOTIVE
OPPORTUNITY
JUDGEMENT: GUILTY
SENTENCE: JUDGE
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do you really mean to tell me you're claiming townsend doesn't have a shady past and hasn't been paying players for years?
I'm not claiming that. I was referring to your claim he paid Sherron, no proof of that happening. Before you ask, yes I have read your long post about the history of bill Self's cheating and in there there is no proof other than your speculation about Sherron.
ya i guess you're right. i don't have a picture of the scumbag handing sherron a bag of cash.
it makes complete sense that when bill self was looking for an assistant it was townsend's impeccable employment history that made him so attractive.
All I am saying is that all of this with Sherron is purely speculative. Nothing wrong with having suspicions, but to try and pass them off as fact when there is no evidence is pretty petty and disingenuous in my mind.
the oscar/sherron/aau crap is speculative. the idea that oscar was unable to recruit local talent is wrong. in 2011 he signed a class ranked 11th nationally, including 4 top 100's, all from the chicago area.
there's no disputing kurt townsend's history and there's nothing petty or disingenuous about acknowledging it.
I think the biggest issue with Weber at Illinois was the inconsistencies of signing solid classes. No doubt the 2011 was good, you can see that in their play this year to an extent. Weber had some bad recruiting years that eventually cost him his job. He can coach them up all he wants, but without better talent the ceiling is only so high.
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only so high as the big 12 championship?
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only so high as the big 12 championship?
We are talking about his recruiting classes and what he accomplished with them. This year's KSU team was not comprised of players Weber recruited. He has done a fantastic job this year, no disputing that. It remains to be seen at what level he recruits in the future. If he brings in talent like Martin did, then yes he can be very successful. If he can't at least bring in the level that Martin did, I think oscar will not be long for Manhattan. That is just my opinion though, very well may be wrong.
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“I guess I’m human, and it hurts, or it bothers you a little bit,” he says of such critique. “This is my team now, and these are our players. Nobody else is doing anything with them, and you’re doing something with them, so it hurts. So you do what you can do."
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/03/12/4116659/k-states-weber-has-taken-heat.html##storylink=cpy
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only so high as the big 12 championship?
We are talking about his recruiting classes and what he accomplished with them. This year's KSU team was not comprised of players Weber recruited. He has done a fantastic job this year, no disputing that. It remains to be seen at what level he recruits in the future. If he brings in talent like Martin did, then yes he can be very successful. If he can't at least bring in the level that Martin did, I think oscar will not be long for Manhattan. That is just my opinion though, very well may be wrong.
we already established that he can recruit. you agreed. see his 2011, 2010, and 2009 classes, all top 15 classes.
and don't you feel stupid questioning whether or not a guy can coach a team of players recruited by guy a versus guy b? how stupid of a question is that? i realize it's been regurgitated incessantly since the weber hire by ku fans but its an incredibly illogical talking point.
what do you know about "martin's recruiting classes" ? angel, frank's best recruit outside of the dca pipe, was a 3 star. frank was no recruiter, by any measure.
oscar can coach, but he can't coach his own players
oscar can recruit, but he can't recruit to k-state
the constant evolution of KU fan's talking points is both sad and hilarious. it's amazing how badly ku fans want us to fail.
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So Weber had no faults at Illinois? He was just the unfortunate victim of some hideous circumstances that in no way are related to any shortcomings as a coach? Is that what you are saying?
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Pickup games often ended in bruises or fights. Kids in Milwaukee soon understood that Lou Weber’s middle son would not back down from a challenge.
:surprised:
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i don't think i typed that, but if i did, i'm sure you can point out where and when i did.
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i don't think i typed that, but if i did, i'm sure you can point out where and when i did.
I was being a bit facetious. My point was that have pointed out oscar Weber recruited talent to Illinois and you also have said that he is a good strategy coach. So why did he get fired at Illinois? Either he couldn't coach the talent he had effectively or the recruiting rankings on players he signed were off and those players were not as talented as the class ranking made it seem. Which is is?
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only so high as the big 12 championship?
We are talking about his recruiting classes and what he accomplished with them. This year's KSU team was not comprised of players Weber recruited. He has done a fantastic job this year, no disputing that. It remains to be seen at what level he recruits in the future. If he brings in talent like Martin did, then yes he can be very successful. If he can't at least bring in the level that Martin did, I think oscar will not be long for Manhattan. That is just my opinion though, very well may be wrong.
we already established that he can recruit. you agreed. see his 2011, 2010, and 2009 classes, all top 15 classes.
and don't you feel stupid questioning whether or not a guy can coach a team of players recruited by guy a versus guy b? how stupid of a question is that? i realize it's been regurgitated incessantly since the weber hire by ku fans but its an incredibly illogical talking point.
what do you know about "martin's recruiting classes" ? angel, frank's best recruit outside of the dca pipe, was a 3 star. frank was no recruiter, by any measure.
oscar can coach, but he can't coach his own players
oscar can recruit, but he can't recruit to k-state
the constant evolution of KU fan's talking points is both sad and hilarious. it's amazing how badly ku fans want us to fail.
Weber is a shitty recruiter and he sucked ass at Illinois. Quit going full Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).
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only so high as the big 12 championship?
We are talking about his recruiting classes and what he accomplished with them. This year's KSU team was not comprised of players Weber recruited. He has done a fantastic job this year, no disputing that. It remains to be seen at what level he recruits in the future. If he brings in talent like Martin did, then yes he can be very successful. If he can't at least bring in the level that Martin did, I think oscar will not be long for Manhattan. That is just my opinion though, very well may be wrong.
we already established that he can recruit. you agreed. see his 2011, 2010, and 2009 classes, all top 15 classes.
and don't you feel stupid questioning whether or not a guy can coach a team of players recruited by guy a versus guy b? how stupid of a question is that? i realize it's been regurgitated incessantly since the weber hire by ku fans but its an incredibly illogical talking point.
what do you know about "martin's recruiting classes" ? angel, frank's best recruit outside of the dca pipe, was a 3 star. frank was no recruiter, by any measure.
oscar can coach, but he can't coach his own players
oscar can recruit, but he can't recruit to k-state
the constant evolution of KU fan's talking points is both sad and hilarious. it's amazing how badly ku fans want us to fail.
Weber is a shitty recruiter and he sucked ass at Illinois. Quit going full Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).
#butthurt
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only so high as the big 12 championship?
We are talking about his recruiting classes and what he accomplished with them. This year's KSU team was not comprised of players Weber recruited. He has done a fantastic job this year, no disputing that. It remains to be seen at what level he recruits in the future. If he brings in talent like Martin did, then yes he can be very successful. If he can't at least bring in the level that Martin did, I think oscar will not be long for Manhattan. That is just my opinion though, very well may be wrong.
we already established that he can recruit. you agreed. see his 2011, 2010, and 2009 classes, all top 15 classes.
and don't you feel stupid questioning whether or not a guy can coach a team of players recruited by guy a versus guy b? how stupid of a question is that? i realize it's been regurgitated incessantly since the weber hire by ku fans but its an incredibly illogical talking point.
what do you know about "martin's recruiting classes" ? angel, frank's best recruit outside of the dca pipe, was a 3 star. frank was no recruiter, by any measure.
oscar can coach, but he can't coach his own players
oscar can recruit, but he can't recruit to k-state
the constant evolution of KU fan's talking points is both sad and hilarious. it's amazing how badly ku fans want us to fail.
Weber is a shitty recruiter and he sucked ass at Illinois. Quit going full respect.
#butthurt
Yeah, I'm butthurt that Weber can't recruit and was fired at Illinois. Right.
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i don't think i typed that, but if i did, i'm sure you can point out where and when i did.
I was being a bit facetious. My point was that have pointed out oscar Weber recruited talent to Illinois and you also have said that he is a good strategy coach. So why did he get fired at Illinois? Either he couldn't coach the talent he had effectively or the recruiting rankings on players he signed were off and those players were not as talented as the class ranking made it seem. Which is is?
according to ku fans, it's both.
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only so high as the big 12 championship?
We are talking about his recruiting classes and what he accomplished with them. This year's KSU team was not comprised of players Weber recruited. He has done a fantastic job this year, no disputing that. It remains to be seen at what level he recruits in the future. If he brings in talent like Martin did, then yes he can be very successful. If he can't at least bring in the level that Martin did, I think oscar will not be long for Manhattan. That is just my opinion though, very well may be wrong.
we already established that he can recruit. you agreed. see his 2011, 2010, and 2009 classes, all top 15 classes.
and don't you feel stupid questioning whether or not a guy can coach a team of players recruited by guy a versus guy b? how stupid of a question is that? i realize it's been regurgitated incessantly since the weber hire by ku fans but its an incredibly illogical talking point.
what do you know about "martin's recruiting classes" ? angel, frank's best recruit outside of the dca pipe, was a 3 star. frank was no recruiter, by any measure.
oscar can coach, but he can't coach his own players
oscar can recruit, but he can't recruit to k-state
the constant evolution of KU fan's talking points is both sad and hilarious. it's amazing how badly ku fans want us to fail.
Weber is a shitty recruiter and he sucked ass at Illinois. Quit going full respect.
#butthurt
Yeah, I'm butthurt that Weber can't recruit and was fired at Illinois. Right.
WELCOME TO TITLETOWN, KIDDO.
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:bwpopcorn:
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only so high as the big 12 championship?
We are talking about his recruiting classes and what he accomplished with them. This year's KSU team was not comprised of players Weber recruited. He has done a fantastic job this year, no disputing that. It remains to be seen at what level he recruits in the future. If he brings in talent like Martin did, then yes he can be very successful. If he can't at least bring in the level that Martin did, I think oscar will not be long for Manhattan. That is just my opinion though, very well may be wrong.
we already established that he can recruit. you agreed. see his 2011, 2010, and 2009 classes, all top 15 classes.
and don't you feel stupid questioning whether or not a guy can coach a team of players recruited by guy a versus guy b? how stupid of a question is that? i realize it's been regurgitated incessantly since the weber hire by ku fans but its an incredibly illogical talking point.
what do you know about "martin's recruiting classes" ? angel, frank's best recruit outside of the dca pipe, was a 3 star. frank was no recruiter, by any measure.
oscar can coach, but he can't coach his own players
oscar can recruit, but he can't recruit to k-state
the constant evolution of KU fan's talking points is both sad and hilarious. it's amazing how badly ku fans want us to fail.
Weber is a shitty recruiter and he sucked ass at Illinois. Quit going full respect.
#butthurt
Yeah, I'm butthurt that Weber can't recruit and was fired at Illinois. Right.
WELCOME TO TITLETOWN, KIDDO.
More like "WELCOME TO WEBERVILLE. DESTINATION: MID MAJOR"
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i don't think i typed that, but if i did, i'm sure you can point out where and when i did.
I was being a bit facetious. My point was that have pointed out oscar Weber recruited talent to Illinois and you also have said that he is a good strategy coach. So why did he get fired at Illinois? Either he couldn't coach the talent he had effectively or the recruiting rankings on players he signed were off and those players were not as talented as the class ranking made it seem. Which is is?
It's not an either/or propsition! I'm assuming that people understand that logic isn't so binary :dunno: His problems at Illinois were initially he tried recruiting the way he felt was best but the fanbase and local media blasted him for it because the prevailing thought was "this is Illinois we produce way to much talent and you took over a roster with way too much highly ranked talent for you to be bringing in players like Chester Frazier" so he buckled and didn't trust what had worked for him as a coach up to that point, which was to recruit the best players he could get who fit with his coaching philosophy so he then started just star hunting. Getting the highest rated players he could and hoping/thinking he could turn them into the players he needed. Prime example, recruiting several high ranked wings and thinking he could turn a coule into point guards instead of just recruiting a good solid point gaurd, like say Frazier or Meacham who may not be as highly sought after but would fill the need and become a good player as an upperclassman. Coincidently something he seems to be avoiding repeating already at KSU.
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only so high as the big 12 championship?
We are talking about his recruiting classes and what he accomplished with them. This year's KSU team was not comprised of players Weber recruited. He has done a fantastic job this year, no disputing that. It remains to be seen at what level he recruits in the future. If he brings in talent like Martin did, then yes he can be very successful. If he can't at least bring in the level that Martin did, I think oscar will not be long for Manhattan. That is just my opinion though, very well may be wrong.
we already established that he can recruit. you agreed. see his 2011, 2010, and 2009 classes, all top 15 classes.
and don't you feel stupid questioning whether or not a guy can coach a team of players recruited by guy a versus guy b? how stupid of a question is that? i realize it's been regurgitated incessantly since the weber hire by ku fans but its an incredibly illogical talking point.
what do you know about "martin's recruiting classes" ? angel, frank's best recruit outside of the dca pipe, was a 3 star. frank was no recruiter, by any measure.
oscar can coach, but he can't coach his own players
oscar can recruit, but he can't recruit to k-state
the constant evolution of KU fan's talking points is both sad and hilarious. it's amazing how badly ku fans want us to fail.
Weber is a shitty recruiter and he sucked ass at Illinois. Quit going full respect.
#butthurt
Yeah, I'm butthurt that Weber can't recruit and was fired at Illinois. Right.
WELCOME TO TITLETOWN, KIDDO.
Good stuff.
you know what's even better stuff? the fact that the best that bill self can do is back into a share of a conference championship after 10 years at KU while oscar rolls up, takes his team (picked to finish 5th) (having just finished 5th the previous year) and easily clinches a troph. might as well have done it blindfolded though, being unable to coach and all. sometimes strange crap just happens when you reside in titletown.
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i don't think i typed that, but if i did, i'm sure you can point out where and when i did.
I was being a bit facetious. My point was that have pointed out oscar Weber recruited talent to Illinois and you also have said that he is a good strategy coach. So why did he get fired at Illinois? Either he couldn't coach the talent he had effectively or the recruiting rankings on players he signed were off and those players were not as talented as the class ranking made it seem. Which is is?
It's not an either/or propsition! I'm assuming that people understand that logic isn't so binary :dunno: His problems at Illinois were initially he tried recruiting the way he felt was best but the fanbase and local media blasted him for it because the prevailing thought was "this is Illinois we produce way to much talent and you took over a roster with way too much highly ranked talent for you to be bringing in players like Chester Frazier" so he buckled and didn't trust what had worked for him as a coach up to that point, which was to recruit the best players he could get who fit with his coaching philosophy so he then started just star hunting. Getting the highest rated players he could and hoping/thinking he could turn them into the players he needed. Prime example, recruiting several high ranked wings and thinking he could turn a coule into point guards instead of just recruiting a good solid point gaurd, like say Frazier or Meacham who may not be as highly sought after but would fill the need and become a good player as an upperclassman. Coincidently something he seems to be avoiding repeating already at KSU.
Obviously it is not an either/or proposition. I was just curious as to what more the problem seemed to be. From what I gleem from your post is that top tier players generally don't fit well into oscar's system so he has to recruit not as high quality guys. Once he does that he can mold those not as talented guys into a formidable team that will consistently win. Got ya
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gc, how would you compare oscar's recruiting to frank's ?
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gc, how would you compare oscar's recruiting to frank's ?
Without having really researched and compared their classes I am going to rely on information you have provided. I would say that oscar recruited higher level talent overall to Illinois than Frank did, but I would say Frank's players performed much better over their careers. Obviously, this is not a blanket statement, but does seem to be the overall trend. I'm not really sure what it means that Frank's players had better careers than Weber's. Does this mean the big ten is harder to compete in? Does it mean Frank is a better player developer than oscar? I don't know the answers.
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i don't think i typed that, but if i did, i'm sure you can point out where and when i did.
I was being a bit facetious. My point was that have pointed out oscar Weber recruited talent to Illinois and you also have said that he is a good strategy coach. So why did he get fired at Illinois? Either he couldn't coach the talent he had effectively or the recruiting rankings on players he signed were off and those players were not as talented as the class ranking made it seem. Which is is?
It's not an either/or propsition! I'm assuming that people understand that logic isn't so binary :dunno: His problems at Illinois were initially he tried recruiting the way he felt was best but the fanbase and local media blasted him for it because the prevailing thought was "this is Illinois we produce way to much talent and you took over a roster with way too much highly ranked talent for you to be bringing in players like Chester Frazier" so he buckled and didn't trust what had worked for him as a coach up to that point, which was to recruit the best players he could get who fit with his coaching philosophy so he then started just star hunting. Getting the highest rated players he could and hoping/thinking he could turn them into the players he needed. Prime example, recruiting several high ranked wings and thinking he could turn a coule into point guards instead of just recruiting a good solid point gaurd, like say Frazier or Meacham who may not be as highly sought after but would fill the need and become a good player as an upperclassman. Coincidently something he seems to be avoiding repeating already at KSU.
Obviously it is not an either/or proposition. I was just curious as to what more the problem seemed to be. From what I gleem from your post is that top tier players generally don't fit well into oscar's system so he has to recruit not as high quality guys. Once he does that he can mold those not as talented guys into a formidable team that will consistently win. Got ya
That's not what he said dumbass.
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gc, how would you compare oscar's recruiting to frank's ?
Without having really researched and compared their classes I am going to rely on information you have provided. I would say that oscar recruited higher level talent overall to Illinois than Frank did, but I would say Frank's players performed much better over their careers. Obviously, this is not a blanket statement, but does seem to be the overall trend. I'm not really sure what it means that Frank's players had better careers than Weber's. Does this mean the big ten is harder to compete in? Does it mean Frank is a better player developer than oscar? I don't know the answers.
oscar won the conference w/ frank's players, something frank never did. who is the better developer of talent?
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gc, how would you compare oscar's recruiting to frank's ?
Without having really researched and compared their classes I am going to rely on information you have provided. I would say that oscar recruited higher level talent overall to Illinois than Frank did, but I would say Frank's players performed much better over their careers. Obviously, this is not a blanket statement, but does seem to be the overall trend. I'm not really sure what it means that Frank's players had better careers than Weber's. Does this mean the big ten is harder to compete in? Does it mean Frank is a better player developer than oscar? I don't know the answers.
oscar won the conference w/ frank's players, something frank never did. who is the better developer of talent?
If you look at this year it would appear oscar is, but if you look at the previous years it is not as easy of an answer.
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i'm looking at frank's entire body of work. there's a clear cut answer there.
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gc, how would you compare oscar's recruiting to frank's ?
Without having really researched and compared their classes I am going to rely on information you have provided. I would say that oscar recruited higher level talent overall to Illinois than Frank did, but I would say Frank's players performed much better over their careers. Obviously, this is not a blanket statement, but does seem to be the overall trend. I'm not really sure what it means that Frank's players had better careers than Weber's. Does this mean the big ten is harder to compete in? Does it mean Frank is a better player developer than oscar? I don't know the answers.
oscar won the conference w/ frank's players, something frank never did. who is the better developer of talent?
You remind me of Illinois fans circa 2005. Then Self won a national title in '08, and Weber was fired a few years later.
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the only reason why self went to the national championship game in the first place was because he saw his mentor oscar weber do it at illinois (something bill was incapable of doing during his stint in champaign).
once again, bill finds solace hiding in oscar's shadow. weird guy = bill self.
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So Weber had no faults at Illinois? He was just the unfortunate victim of some hideous circumstances that in no way are related to any shortcomings as a coach? Is that what you are saying?
There were several things that happened. But most of it boils down to a portion of the fan base that wanted 2005 every year. The social media affected the teams. Some of the e-mails, texts, twitters, got really bad for them. The local beat writer did his share to build the hype and that aided the ones that wanted new coaches. Chester's junior year some hated him so bad they boo'd him at games. If you ever wonder what happened talk to him. He was there.
Last years team, including coaches were under a terrific pressure and had been for a couple of years. It finally got to them. The AD was changed and he first fired the football coach the day after the last game. That loaded the pressure on BBall team and coaches big time. The Nebraska game was the breaking point. They all knew the coaches were gone, and the team felt it was their fault. Sure enough the day after the last game, Coach Weber was let go. There were and still are many Illini fans that believe in Coach Weber and follow him.
There are some Illini fans that will fill you with some straight up hate for both fball and bball coaches. They are over the top and have a tendency to go overboard.
The Illini AD had to go through several coaches before he was able to hire the current coach. The season has had some ups and some downs.
This is the comment that Coach Weber said in one of the last articles and it says it all:
"He was expected to recruit a certain kind of player there, and usually from Chicago. Weber — openly self-analytical — says he got away from his own coaching beliefs. He means that both in things like discipline and substitution patterns, and with bigger-picture stuff like putting together recruiting classes."
You got to know that if Deron Williams (Who has always said that if it was not for Coach Weber he would not be the player he is. and calls Weber regularly to talk about basketball.) and Myers Leonard believe in Coach Weber, you should too. Even Self has said that Weber did things for the Illini 2005 team that he could not have. That Webers motion was made for that team.
There will be a lot to come and KSU is going to be in good hands
Illini fan
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phoenix just making it rain in here!
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Sometimes I wonder if oscar was bad at Illinois, just because he hated them. Sorry, Bread.
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it's a fair question, they treated him like crap (unlike here)
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Sometimes I wonder if oscar was bad at Illinois, just because he hated them. Sorry, Bread.
No need to drag me into this troll fest. Stick with beems and his new minions is what I always say.
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phoenix just making it rain in here!
He is quite obviously the jalapeno mustard of Illini bbs'ers.
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it's a fair question, they treated him like crap (unlike here)
Huh, looks like you got demoted. Weird how that happened. Probably should watch it.
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Sometimes I wonder if oscar was bad at Illinois, just because he hated them. Sorry, Bread.
No need to drag me into this troll fest. Stick with beems and his new minions is what I always say.
Touche. :thumbs:
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i'm looking at frank's entire body of work. there's a clear cut answer there.
the problem with this is you don't take into account any developing this years KSU players did under Martin. You just say that oscar came in and developed these guys to a point they could win a conference championship, and none of them winning that championship this year is due to anything Frank did with them. Again, I don't know what the answer is, but it seems like it is too early to tell.
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So Weber had no faults at Illinois? He was just the unfortunate victim of some hideous circumstances that in no way are related to any shortcomings as a coach? Is that what you are saying?
There were several things that happened. But most of it boils down to a portion of the fan base that wanted 2005 every year. The social media affected the teams. Some of the e-mails, texts, twitters, got really bad for them. The local beat writer did his share to build the hype and that aided the ones that wanted new coaches. Chester's junior year some hated him so bad they boo'd him at games. If you ever wonder what happened talk to him. He was there.
Last years team, including coaches were under a terrific pressure and had been for a couple of years. It finally got to them. The AD was changed and he first fired the football coach the day after the last game. That loaded the pressure on BBall team and coaches big time. The Nebraska game was the breaking point. They all knew the coaches were gone, and the team felt it was their fault. Sure enough the day after the last game, Coach Weber was let go. There were and still are many Illini fans that believe in Coach Weber and follow him.
There are some Illini fans that will fill you with some straight up hate for both fball and bball coaches. They are over the top and have a tendency to go overboard.
The Illini AD had to go through several coaches before he was able to hire the current coach. The season has had some ups and some downs.
This is the comment that Coach Weber said in one of the last articles and it says it all:
"He was expected to recruit a certain kind of player there, and usually from Chicago. Weber — openly self-analytical — says he got away from his own coaching beliefs. He means that both in things like discipline and substitution patterns, and with bigger-picture stuff like putting together recruiting classes."
You got to know that if Deron Williams (Who has always said that if it was not for Coach Weber he would not be the player he is. and calls Weber regularly to talk about basketball.) and Myers Leonard believe in Coach Weber, you should too. Even Self has said that Weber did things for the Illini 2005 team that he could not have. That Webers motion was made for that team.
There will be a lot to come and KSU is going to be in good hands
Illini fan
So essentially oscar fell into the pressure of outside influences in who he should recruit, instead of showing some backbone and sticking with players he knew he could win with in his system. Got ya :thumbs:
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So Weber had no faults at Illinois? He was just the unfortunate victim of some hideous circumstances that in no way are related to any shortcomings as a coach? Is that what you are saying?
There were several things that happened. But most of it boils down to a portion of the fan base that wanted 2005 every year. The social media affected the teams. Some of the e-mails, texts, twitters, got really bad for them. The local beat writer did his share to build the hype and that aided the ones that wanted new coaches. Chester's junior year some hated him so bad they boo'd him at games. If you ever wonder what happened talk to him. He was there.
Last years team, including coaches were under a terrific pressure and had been for a couple of years. It finally got to them. The AD was changed and he first fired the football coach the day after the last game. That loaded the pressure on BBall team and coaches big time. The Nebraska game was the breaking point. They all knew the coaches were gone, and the team felt it was their fault. Sure enough the day after the last game, Coach Weber was let go. There were and still are many Illini fans that believe in Coach Weber and follow him.
There are some Illini fans that will fill you with some straight up hate for both fball and bball coaches. They are over the top and have a tendency to go overboard.
The Illini AD had to go through several coaches before he was able to hire the current coach. The season has had some ups and some downs.
This is the comment that Coach Weber said in one of the last articles and it says it all:
"He was expected to recruit a certain kind of player there, and usually from Chicago. Weber — openly self-analytical — says he got away from his own coaching beliefs. He means that both in things like discipline and substitution patterns, and with bigger-picture stuff like putting together recruiting classes."
You got to know that if Deron Williams (Who has always said that if it was not for Coach Weber he would not be the player he is. and calls Weber regularly to talk about basketball.) and Myers Leonard believe in Coach Weber, you should too. Even Self has said that Weber did things for the Illini 2005 team that he could not have. That Webers motion was made for that team.
There will be a lot to come and KSU is going to be in good hands
Illini fan
So essentially oscar fell into the pressure of outside influences in who he should recruit, instead of showing some backbone and sticking with players he knew he could win with in his system. Got ya :thumbs:
In summary, just blame everyone but oscar for oscar's failures at Illinois.
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So Weber had no faults at Illinois? He was just the unfortunate victim of some hideous circumstances that in no way are related to any shortcomings as a coach? Is that what you are saying?
There were several things that happened. But most of it boils down to a portion of the fan base that wanted 2005 every year. The social media affected the teams. Some of the e-mails, texts, twitters, got really bad for them. The local beat writer did his share to build the hype and that aided the ones that wanted new coaches. Chester's junior year some hated him so bad they boo'd him at games. If you ever wonder what happened talk to him. He was there.
Last years team, including coaches were under a terrific pressure and had been for a couple of years. It finally got to them. The AD was changed and he first fired the football coach the day after the last game. That loaded the pressure on BBall team and coaches big time. The Nebraska game was the breaking point. They all knew the coaches were gone, and the team felt it was their fault. Sure enough the day after the last game, Coach Weber was let go. There were and still are many Illini fans that believe in Coach Weber and follow him.
There are some Illini fans that will fill you with some straight up hate for both fball and bball coaches. They are over the top and have a tendency to go overboard.
The Illini AD had to go through several coaches before he was able to hire the current coach. The season has had some ups and some downs.
This is the comment that Coach Weber said in one of the last articles and it says it all:
"He was expected to recruit a certain kind of player there, and usually from Chicago. Weber — openly self-analytical — says he got away from his own coaching beliefs. He means that both in things like discipline and substitution patterns, and with bigger-picture stuff like putting together recruiting classes."
You got to know that if Deron Williams (Who has always said that if it was not for Coach Weber he would not be the player he is. and calls Weber regularly to talk about basketball.) and Myers Leonard believe in Coach Weber, you should too. Even Self has said that Weber did things for the Illini 2005 team that he could not have. That Webers motion was made for that team.
There will be a lot to come and KSU is going to be in good hands
Illini fan
So essentially oscar fell into the pressure of outside influences in who he should recruit, instead of showing some backbone and sticking with players he knew he could win with in his system. Got ya :thumbs:
In summary, just blame everyone but oscar for oscar's failures at Illinois.
Someone seems to really fear the oscar! :surprised:
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do you really mean to tell me you're claiming townsend doesn't have a shady past and hasn't been paying players for years?
I'm not claiming that. I was referring to your claim he paid Sherron, no proof of that happening. Before you ask, yes I have read your long post about the history of bill Self's cheating and in there there is no proof other than your speculation about Sherron.
ya i guess you're right. i don't have a picture of the scumbag handing sherron a bag of cash.
it makes complete sense that when bill self was looking for an assistant it was townsend's impeccable employment history that made him so attractive.
All I am saying is that all of this with Sherron is purely speculative. Nothing wrong with having suspicions, but to try and pass them off as fact when there is no evidence is pretty petty and disingenuous in my mind.
the oscar/sherron/aau crap is speculative. the idea that oscar was unable to recruit local talent is wrong. in 2011 he signed a class ranked 11th nationally, including 4 top 100's, all from the chicago area.
there's no disputing kurt townsend's history and there's nothing petty or disingenuous about acknowledging it.
actually it's well known and documented and you just proved my point: weber didn't have a decent class with players from chicago until 2011. he still lost all the best players pretty much during his time there.
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it's a fair question, they treated him like crap (unlike here)
Huh, looks like you got demoted. Weird how that happened. Probably should watch it.
:users:
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do you really mean to tell me you're claiming townsend doesn't have a shady past and hasn't been paying players for years?
I'm not claiming that. I was referring to your claim he paid Sherron, no proof of that happening. Before you ask, yes I have read your long post about the history of bill Self's cheating and in there there is no proof other than your speculation about Sherron.
ya i guess you're right. i don't have a picture of the scumbag handing sherron a bag of cash.
it makes complete sense that when bill self was looking for an assistant it was townsend's impeccable employment history that made him so attractive.
All I am saying is that all of this with Sherron is purely speculative. Nothing wrong with having suspicions, but to try and pass them off as fact when there is no evidence is pretty petty and disingenuous in my mind.
the oscar/sherron/aau crap is speculative. the idea that oscar was unable to recruit local talent is wrong. in 2011 he signed a class ranked 11th nationally, including 4 top 100's, all from the chicago area.
there's no disputing kurt townsend's history and there's nothing petty or disingenuous about acknowledging it.
actually it's well known and documented and you just proved my point: weber didn't have a decent class with players from chicago until 2011. he still lost all the best players pretty much during his time there.
What in the world are you talking about? Do you have any idea who and from where he got recruits from in 2009 and onward? He may have not gotten the right players but he had back to back to back top 25 recruiting classes with almost all of the players being from Illinois. and of the 2009, 2010 and 2011 classes all except 2 of those Illinois recruits were from the Chicago area. Unless you somehow are only counting CPL kids as "Chicago players" if that's your definition of getting local players then he never got any and no Illini coach since Henson's hey day has gotten many of those!
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:runaway:
truth about oscar Weber:
1. If given a good roster, he can win championships at the high major level
2. He can build a championship mid major team
3. He has yet to build a high major team capable of winning championship
He'll either get #3 figured out, or he won't, but I don't really buy into the "Forrest Gump" theory that he's a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), bumbling about and falling assbackward into fame and fortune. I mean, if you win 5 conference championships at 3 different schools in 15 years as a coach, you're probably doing something right. History says he'll probably have some disasterous seasons in the future, but by the same token, I don't think he's won his last title. Just hope it's more of the latter at KSU :dunno:
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do you really mean to tell me you're claiming townsend doesn't have a shady past and hasn't been paying players for years?
I'm not claiming that. I was referring to your claim he paid Sherron, no proof of that happening. Before you ask, yes I have read your long post about the history of bill Self's cheating and in there there is no proof other than your speculation about Sherron.
ya i guess you're right. i don't have a picture of the scumbag handing sherron a bag of cash.
it makes complete sense that when bill self was looking for an assistant it was townsend's impeccable employment history that made him so attractive.
All I am saying is that all of this with Sherron is purely speculative. Nothing wrong with having suspicions, but to try and pass them off as fact when there is no evidence is pretty petty and disingenuous in my mind.
the oscar/sherron/aau crap is speculative. the idea that oscar was unable to recruit local talent is wrong. in 2011 he signed a class ranked 11th nationally, including 4 top 100's, all from the chicago area.
there's no disputing kurt townsend's history and there's nothing petty or disingenuous about acknowledging it.
actually it's well known and documented and you just proved my point: weber didn't have a decent class with players from chicago until 2011. he still lost all the best players pretty much during his time there.
There were and still are coaches that will not recruit Chicago. There are just way too many handlers, etc. up there. The word was that Shaka Smart and others did not want to come to Illinois because of the Chicago issue. Then there are some who have no problem with diving into the Chicago scene.
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a high character guy like oscar won't touch chicago. He should be commended for that.
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what an embarrassing thread (not yosh, of course).
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yeah, bump
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where did #teamburnitdown go? i miss their preemptive rantings and ravings
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where did #teamburnitdown go? i miss their preemptive rantings and ravings
#BID did this through tough love and department wide PI motivation. Puppet masters.
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2
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where did #teamburnitdown go? i miss their preemptive rantings and ravings
#BID did this through tough love and department wide PI motivation. Puppet masters.
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2
Team BID and FYBS are basically the main reasons MHK has to go through all the lengthy processes to rename the city Titletown.
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where did #teamburnitdown go? i miss their preemptive rantings and ravings
#BID did this through tough love and department wide PI motivation. Puppet masters.
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2
Team BID and FYBS are basically the main reasons MHK has to go through all the lengthy processes to rename the city Titletown.
100%accurate
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2
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where did #teamburnitdown go? i miss their preemptive rantings and ravings
#BID did this through tough love and department wide PI motivation. Puppet masters.
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2
Team BID and FYBS are basically the main reasons MHK has to go through all the lengthy processes to rename the city Titletown.
100%accurate
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2
Its a good thing the NBAF is going to flood the economy with cash because we're gonna need a bunch of new signs.