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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: AppleJack on January 26, 2013, 02:36:09 PM
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Rebounding. When the other team misses a shot and you grab it and try and score on the hoop that they are defending. Rebounding.
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2nd chance points = Iowa st 18 Kstate 2
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Correlation to average height in lineup?
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Rebounding.
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Our 3 bigs = ZERO offensive rebounds in 39 minutes
Lack of effort.
Clyborn and Ejim 6'7 and 6'6 .... 9 offensive boards
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We got killed on the boards.
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Our 3 bigs = ZERO offensive rebounds in 39 minutes
johnson is a good hustle player.
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Rod specifically got abused on the glass.
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It's pretty explainable guys. Gipson is a gigantic pussy, JO is crazy inconsistent, and Nino can't stay out of the doghouse
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#1 reason we lost this game.
#2 was 2nd half turnovers.
#3 ISU 3 PT shooting a distant 3rd.
Waste of a great chance to win a road game vs an upper half team.
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Should have been a 15-20 point loss due to rebounding but we shot out of our minds in the second half.
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Should have been a 15-20 point loss due to rebounding but we shot out of our minds in the second half.
So did they.
We got greatd shots and attacked the rim, I'll give credit there. Its not like we were just throwing it in from deep. Our offense was very good (minus TOs) in the 2nd half, but terrible effort on the defensive glass and closing out on shooters lost the game.
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Should have been a 15-20 point loss due to rebounding but we shot out of our minds in the second half.
OR if we rebound like a normal basketball team we win on the road. :dunno:
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they also missed a ton of free throws.
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they also missed a ton of free throws.
That's a fair point, and they usually shoot really well from there.
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#1 reason we lost this game.
#2 was 2nd half turnovers.
#3 ISU 3 PT shooting a distant 3rd.
Waste of a great chance to win a road game vs an upper half team.
Lack of free throw attempts was pretty devastating as well
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Them banking in 2 jumpshots (1 2pt, 1 3pt) helped kinda neutralize the FT misses.
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#1 reason we lost this game.
#2 was 2nd half turnovers.
#3 ISU 3 PT shooting a distant 3rd.
Waste of a great chance to win a road game vs an upper half team.
1 and 3 are related. They spread us, we allowed penetration which put us in scramble situations we were completely out of position to guard 3s or rebound. It wasn't effort, or being "pussies" or whatever dumb crap is being spewed by dummies, not you _FAN.
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It wasn't effort, or being "pussies" or whatever dumb crap is being spewed by dummies, not you _FAN.
we had a lot of minutes played by players that aren't among our five best players.
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It wasn't effort, or being "pussies" or whatever dumb crap is being spewed by dummies, not you _FAN.
we had a lot of minutes played by players that aren't among our five best players.
Shane sat way too long in the 2nd half
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#1 reason we lost this game.
#2 was 2nd half turnovers.
#3 ISU 3 PT shooting a distant 3rd.
Waste of a great chance to win a road game vs an upper half team.
I'm going out on a limb by saying that the number one reason Diet Kansas lost is because they scored less points than Iowa State......its possible
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Shane sat way too long in the 2nd half
i'm just glad he didn't have to sit on the bench by himself, surrounded by walkons and scrubs.
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#1 reason we lost this game.
#2 was 2nd half turnovers.
#3 ISU 3 PT shooting a distant 3rd.
Waste of a great chance to win a road game vs an upper half team.
I'm going out on a limb by saying that the number one reason Diet Kansas lost is because they scored less points than Iowa State......its possible
diet kansas
as an elite fan who has now been everywhere but wvu I can assure you that isu has the dorkiest, corniest fans anywhere, even Baylor.
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We had 5 offensive rebounds today. Isu had given up 57 ORs in 5 conf games. ORs is suppose to be a strength for this team
Sorry, but i see a lack of effort today.
Giving them 18 2nd chance pts was a killer, but us getting only 2 ourselves because our OR% is under 20 was a big issue today too
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We had 5 offensive rebounds today. Isu had given up 57 ORs in 5 conf games. ORs is suppose to be a strength for this team
Sorry, but i see a lack of effort today.
Giving them 18 2nd chance pts was a killer, but us getting only 2 ourselves because our OR% is under 20 was a big issue today too
the personnel on the floor had a lot to do with that as sys mentioned
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#1 reason we lost this game.
#2 was 2nd half turnovers.
#3 ISU 3 PT shooting a distant 3rd.
Waste of a great chance to win a road game vs an upper half team.
I'm going out on a limb by saying that the number one reason Diet Kansas lost is because they scored less points than Iowa State......its possible
diet kansas
as an elite fan who has now been everywhere but wvu I can assure you that isu has the dorkiest, corniest fans anywhere, even Baylor.
:lol:
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#1 reason we lost this game.
#2 was 2nd half turnovers.
#3 ISU 3 PT shooting a distant 3rd.
Waste of a great chance to win a road game vs an upper half team.
I'm going out on a limb by saying that the number one reason Diet Kansas lost is because they scored less points than Iowa State......its possible
diet kansas
as an elite fan who has now been everywhere but wvu I can assure you that isu has the dorkiest, corniest fans anywhere, even Baylor.
:lol:
I'm surprised you've been around for 181 posts as bad as your last 2 were :sdeek:
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We had 5 offensive rebounds today. Isu had given up 57 ORs in 5 conf games. ORs is suppose to be a strength for this team
Sorry, but i see a lack of effort today.
Giving them 18 2nd chance pts was a killer, but us getting only 2 ourselves because our OR% is under 20 was a big issue today too
the personnel on the floor had a lot to do with that as sys mentioned
Maybe, but the 3 bigs played 39 minutes today, and Nino played 19 (Nino 7.8 ORs per 100 poss). That should be enough fire power to get a few ORs. Rod had 4 of the 5 today.
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#1 reason we lost this game.
#2 was 2nd half turnovers.
#3 ISU 3 PT shooting a distant 3rd.
Waste of a great chance to win a road game vs an upper half team.
I'm going out on a limb by saying that the number one reason Diet Kansas lost is because they scored less points than Iowa State......its possible
diet kansas
as an elite fan who has now been everywhere but wvu I can assure you that isu has the dorkiest, corniest fans anywhere, even Baylor.
:lol:
I'm surprised you've been around for 181 posts as bad as your last 2 were :sdeek:
oh no you didnt...lol
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At least Pig Aggie and Coal Aggie have a couple elite fans. Flood aggie just has white guys who think it's edgy to not call an opposing team by their name. What's next, is he gonna use "grape" ?? :ohno:
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At least Pig Aggie and Coal Aggie have a couple elite fans. Flood aggie just has white guys who think it's edgy to not call an opposing team by their name. What's next, is he gonna use "grape" ?? :ohno:
Not sure what the hell "elite fans" are? Also, how creative is it to refer to everyone by _____ Aggie?
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Rebounding is somewhat based on positioning, but mostly effort. Having played and coached, can attest to the fact great rebounders are not always great athletes, usually just guys that go after all the loose orange. Rodman went after every miss and usually got a third of them.
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they also missed a ton of free throws.
That's a fair point, and they usually shoot really well from there.
That's goEMAW.com.
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Gonna need Mr bread to verify but pretty sure he told us from the get go that oscar can't motivate.rebounding is an effort stat
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oscar's Illinois teams the last 3 years were nearly even (Big 10 games only) between OR% and OR% allowed; they got outboarded in each, but by less than 1%.
09 was terrible , with a -3% differential.
His first 5 years were all positive; +3, +4, +5, +4, and +6.
His final year at SIU was negative by less than 1% as well.
The key to oscar's teams' success has always been winning eFG% and TO%.
In only league games, his teams were at least +4% in both categories his final year at SIU and his first 3 years at Illinois, which was also his best run of coaching.
After that the TO% differential slipped the most; 2 years were just under +2%, but the rest oscar's Illinois teams were negative in TO% differential. All but last year's team ended up with positive differentials in eFG%.
If this team can maintain our current Big 12 numbers in eFG% and TO% differential (+3% in both) we will still win 12 or 13 games.
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Big 12 play.....we have 57 2nd chance Pts while our opp have 73.
The 18-4 adv for us vs Osu was important
Ou had a 20-5 adv and we still got the W
The 18-2 adv by Isu was clearly more costly
Basicly were even in each of other 3 games.
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Rebounding is somewhat based on positioning, but mostly effort. Having played and coached, can attest to the fact great rebounders are not always great athletes, usually just guys that go after all the loose orange. Rodman went after every miss and usually got a third of them.
Also you should probably check who the leading rebounding team is in the conference and the leading rebounder....He's 6'6" :eek:
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At least Pig Aggie and Coal Aggie have a couple elite fans. Flood aggie just has white guys who think it's edgy to not call an opposing team by their name. What's next, is he gonna use "grape" ?? :ohno:
Not sure what the hell "elite fans" are? Also, how creative is it to refer to everyone by _____ Aggie?
Flood Aggie doesn't like his nickname :bawl:
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[edited by me]
If this team can maintain our current Big 12 numbers in eFG% and TO% differential (+3% in both) we will still win 12 or 13 games.
:horrorsurprise: I'm really surprised at that projection. I just don't see us getting enough rebounds to buoyed out fg with 2nd chance points.
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[edited by me]
If this team can maintain our current Big 12 numbers in eFG% and TO% differential (+3% in both) we will still win 12 or 13 games.
:horrorsurprise: I'm really surprised at that projection. I just don't see us getting enough rebounds to buoyed out fg with 2nd chance points.
I don't think the trend of 2nd chance points will continue. I don't think we're going to be a great oboarding team, but I think dboarding will improve enough so that its not the detriment it was in the Iowa State game.
Honestly, I think we are overreacting to the OU and ISU games. There is no doubt in that in both of those games we were very poor on the offensive glass and we got beat badly in 2nd chance points in both (+15 and +16 respectively). However, we've played other decent teams (UM, @GW, Zag, UF, OSU, @WVU, KU) and in no other game against decent (~Top 100 kenpom) competition were we beat significantly on the offensive glass or 2nd chance points. Plus, against OSU we had a significant margin (+14).
Again, I think its a major overreaction to think that this is a trend, there are ebbs and flows like this with statistics in nearly every season, and we're in the midst of one of those.
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K-State . . . only 9 missed shots in the 2nd half at ISU, 61% from the floor.
Rest of the rebounding problems.
1. Gipson cannot jump, has difficulty adjusting to the flow of the game.
2. Jo has horrible hands and is lazy . . . . The kid never has really put it all together outside of a few stretches here and there, and likely never will. Straight from a AAA+ source, probably lacks the mental and intellectual capacity to ever really get it. Probably costing himself hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions by his lack of effort and engagment.
3. Diaz . . . still a deer in the headlights, mediocre hands.
So that just leaves Rodney and he can't do everything.
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K-State . . . only 9 missed shots in the 2nd half at ISU, 61% from the floor.
Rest of the rebounding problems.
1. Gipson cannot jump, has difficulty adjusting to the flow of the game.
2. Jo has horrible hands and is lazy . . . . The kid never has really put it all together outside of a few stretches here and there, and likely never will. Straight from a AAA+ source, probably lacks the mental and intellectual capacity to ever really get it. Probably costing himself hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions by his lack of effort and engagment.
3. Diaz . . . still a deer in the headlights, mediocre hands.
So that just leaves Rodney and he can't do everything.
To be fair, I think the main issue for the horse beaters after this game is allowing Iowa State to rebound 1/3 of their own misses. There is no reason any of those guys can't get position and go after the ball. I don't think that we completely lacked effort against Iowa State, but I also agree that although there is technique involved in rebounding, there is an aspect that is simply tied to effort. At times I thought that was lacking in Ames.
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We also changed coaches and rebounding is something that can be both coached and affected by the coach's philosophy.
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Also, can someone give dax a primer on OR%? He would seem like less of a dumbass if someone did and he didn't ignore it.
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Nino seems to enjoy rebounding. I'd love for him to stop shooting the 18 foot jumper and just concentrate on 2nd chance points.
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Also, can someone give dax a primer on OR%? He would seem like less of a dumbass if someone did and he didn't ignore it.
I know exactly what it is, but how rough ridin' difficult is it to comprehend that there were exactly NINE chances to get an offensive rebound in the second half at Iowa state . . . NINE.
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This is an enjoyable basketball thread about basketball.
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Also, can someone give dax a primer on OR%? He would seem like less of a dumbass if someone did and he didn't ignore it.
I know exactly what it is, but how rough ridin' difficult is it to comprehend that there were exactly NINE chances to get an offensive rebound in the second half at Iowa state . . . NINE.
OR% makes the number of rebounding opportunities irrelevant.
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Also, can someone give dax a primer on OR%? He would seem like less of a dumbass if someone did and he didn't ignore it.
I know exactly what it is, but how rough ridin' difficult is it to comprehend that there were exactly NINE chances to get an offensive rebound in the second half at Iowa state . . . NINE.
OR% makes the number of rebounding opportunities irrelevant.
Maybe if you have a much smaller number of opportunities each game then you are less practiced at it and less enthusiastic about chasing them down because it just doesn't happen all that often. You expect your shots to fall and therefore aren't anticipating the OR opportunity as much, not as ready for it. Maybe their lower OR% is a direct result of oscar getting more of their shots to fall and also raising their confidence in their shooting abilities so much that they just subconciously assume it's going in and don't need to get ORs and thus are slower in reacting. What you're seeing is supremely confident offensive cats out there probably.
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Also, can someone give dax a primer on OR%? He would seem like less of a dumbass if someone did and he didn't ignore it.
I know exactly what it is, but how rough ridin' difficult is it to comprehend that there were exactly NINE chances to get an offensive rebound in the second half at Iowa state . . . NINE.
OR% makes the number of rebounding opportunities irrelevant.
So the total number of rebounds available is not relevant?
Interesting cRusty.
I calculate 12 total rebounds available on the offensive end for K-State in the 2nd half, K-State got 2, for a 16.6% OR%. Not good, but not surprising considering who played the entire 2nd half. What am I missing? :dunno:
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Also, can someone give dax a primer on OR%? He would seem like less of a dumbass if someone did and he didn't ignore it.
I know exactly what it is, but how rough ridin' difficult is it to comprehend that there were exactly NINE chances to get an offensive rebound in the second half at Iowa state . . . NINE.
OR% makes the number of rebounding opportunities irrelevant.
So the total number of rebounds available is not relevant?
Interesting cRusty.
I calculate 12 total rebounds available on the offensive end for K-State in the 2nd half, K-State got 2, for a 16.6% OR%. Not good, but not surprising considering who played the entire 2nd half. What am I missing? :dunno:
yes, total number of rebounds is completely irrelevant. I really don't know why you keep bringing up second half offensive rebounding. Was someone complaining about our total number of OR's in the second half? If so, they're stupid, too.
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Okay, cRusty, total number of available rebounds is not relevant.
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Okay, cRusty, total number of available rebounds is not relevant.
If you weren't being facetious, I'd say you've got it. but you don't, because you don't understand OR%.
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[edited by me]
If this team can maintain our current Big 12 numbers in eFG% and TO% differential (+3% in both) we will still win 12 or 13 games.
:horrorsurprise: I'm really surprised at that projection. I just don't see us getting enough rebounds to buoyed out fg with 2nd chance points.
I don't think the trend of 2nd chance points will continue. I don't think we're going to be a great oboarding team, but I think dboarding will improve enough so that its not the detriment it was in the Iowa State game.
Honestly, I think we are overreacting to the OU and ISU games. There is no doubt in that in both of those games we were very poor on the offensive glass and we got beat badly in 2nd chance points in both (+15 and +16 respectively). However, we've played other decent teams (UM, @GW, Zag, UF, OSU, @WVU, KU) and in no other game against decent (~Top 100 kenpom) competition were we beat significantly on the offensive glass or 2nd chance points. Plus, against OSU we had a significant margin (+14).
Again, I think its a major overreaction to think that this is a trend, there are ebbs and flows like this with statistics in nearly every season, and we're in the midst of one of those.
also people have been trained to expect the insane amount of oboarding that happened under frank to be the norm. it isn't. kstate oboarding will be worse under weber over the next few years and we should adjust our expectations accordingly. that's not a shot at weber (although i'm sure some idiots will take it as that), it's just a fact.
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also people have been trained to expect the insane amount of oboarding that happened under frank to be the norm. it isn't. kstate oboarding will be worse under weber over the next few years and we should adjust our expectations accordingly. that's not a shot at weber (although i'm sure some idiots will take it as that), it's just a fact.
Yep, different strokes for different folks.
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also people have been trained to expect the insane amount of oboarding that happened under frank to be the norm. it isn't. kstate oboarding will be worse under weber over the next few years and we should adjust our expectations accordingly. that's not a shot at weber (although i'm sure some idiots will take it as that), it's just a fact.
Yep, different strokes for different folks.
x2. That was a well reasoned post.
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We also changed coaches and rebounding is something that can be both coached and affected by the coach's philosophy.
The people you are talking to here won't listen to you. These dumbasses think if you just indiscriminately throw your hands at the rim every chance you get, you'll get lots of rebounds. All effort Rusty, nothing else.
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Okay, cRusty, total number of available rebounds is not relevant.
If you weren't being facetious, I'd say you've got it. but you don't, because you don't understand OR%.
Yeah, I pretty much do.
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We also changed coaches and rebounding is something that can be both coached and affected by the coach's philosophy.
The people you are talking to here won't listen to you. These dumbasses think if you just indiscriminately throw your hands at the rim every chance you get, you'll get lots of rebounds. All effort Rusty, nothing else.
You're so edgy MIR, I mean golly, you just can't flail around at the ball and rim and get rebounds? Man, the insight!!
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We also changed coaches and rebounding is something that can be both coached and affected by the coach's philosophy.
The people you are talking to here won't listen to you. These dumbasses think if you just indiscriminately throw your hands at the rim every chance you get, you'll get lots of rebounds. All effort Rusty, nothing else.
You're so edgy MIR, I mean golly, you just can't flail around at the ball and rim and get rebounds? Man, the insight!!
Dude he went to this camp this one time in middle school when someone who could rebound told him so.
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We also changed coaches and rebounding is something that can be both coached and affected by the coach's philosophy.
The people you are talking to here won't listen to you. These dumbasses think if you just indiscriminately throw your hands at the rim every chance you get, you'll get lots of rebounds. All effort Rusty, nothing else.
Don't forget about how tall your team is. The tallest high-effort team always gets the most rebounds.
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We also changed coaches and rebounding is something that can be both coached and affected by the coach's philosophy.
The people you are talking to here won't listen to you. These dumbasses think if you just indiscriminately throw your hands at the rim every chance you get, you'll get lots of rebounds. All effort Rusty, nothing else.
Don't forget about how tall your team is. The tallest high-effort team always gets the most rebounds.
you just can't make these kinds of posts up folks
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I never thought we would rebound on the offensive end as well as we did under Frank.
At the same time, there are other teams that played an easier non con schedule that don't get 43% OR like we did
Three non con games against top 10 teams plus a game at GW. That's not crappy competition and we got 37% OR in those gms
I'm totally fine and don't expect even those numbers (37%). What I can't accept is what we have seen the past 5 games, which is 26.5% OR
It sucks that Isu got 14 2nd chance Pts in the 2nd half and that proved costly. But us allowing 31.9 OR% in league play isn't terrible. I would consider 30% to be very good, so 31.9 is acceptible
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2. Jo has horrible hands and is lazy . . . . The kid never has really put it all together outside of a few stretches here and there, and likely never will. Straight from a AAA+ source, probably lacks the mental and intellectual capacity to ever really get it. Probably costing himself hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions by his lack of effort and engagment.
:lol:
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yes, total number of rebounds is completely irrelevant. I really don't know why you keep bringing up second half offensive rebounding. Was someone complaining about our total number of OR's in the second half? If so, they're stupid, too.
Sample size is never completely irrelevant in statistics. I don't think 9 opportunities is enough to draw any real statistical conclusions about offensive rebounding in a game. It's way too easy for 1 or 2 rebounds to skew the numbers high or low.
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We also changed coaches and rebounding is something that can be both coached and affected by the coach's philosophy.
The people you are talking to here won't listen to you. These dumbasses think if you just indiscriminately throw your hands at the rim every chance you get, you'll get lots of rebounds. All effort Rusty, nothing else.
Don't forget about how tall your team is. The tallest high-effort team always gets the most rebounds.
yes, I forgot that one, good call
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Rebounding is much easier when you run your offense inside of 20 feet. I bet the points in the paint were also way up tonight. That goes hand-in-hand with getting O boards.
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Rebounding is much easier when you run your offense inside of 20 feet. I bet the points in the paint were also way up tonight. That goes hand-in-hand with getting O boards.
PTs in the Paint; 42-26 Cats.
PTs off TOs; 33-8 Cats.
2nd Chance; 12-4 Cats.
Dominating.
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Last 4 games =
KState 40.0% OR
+17 in Reb (+4.3/gm)
+10 ORs
Rebound and winning TO margain (+4.3/gm in those 4 games) ....... deadly combo as well as this team shoots the ball
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Fellas, fellas, save the in fighting for after the drilling in Lawrence!
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2. Jo has horrible hands and is lazy . . . . The kid never has really put it all together outside of a few stretches here and there, and likely never will. Straight from a AAA+ source, probably lacks the mental and intellectual capacity to ever really get it. Probably costing himself hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions by his lack of effort and engagment.
Of course, because he's black (without intellectual capacity) and Mexican (lazy). Early frontrunner for :opcat: :opcat: :opcat: of the year.