goemaw.com
TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: kso_FAN on September 12, 2012, 10:12:32 PM
-
_FANframes featuring multi-frame breakdowns of 5 key plays from K-State's destruction of Miami.
http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=2092
-
How much of this stuff do you see real time? I would love to watch a game with you.
-
Should have done the trick play... other than that good stuff :dance:
-
How much of this stuff do you see real time? I would love to watch a game with you.
Bits and pieces. Its usually pretty easy to see formations and general schemes. Its tough to see coverages though, unless you are really watching the secondary, but then you often miss the schemes.
-
Should have done the trick play... other than that good stuff :dance:
If I have time I'll put it in this thread.
-
How much of this stuff do you see real time? I would love to watch a game with you.
Bits and pieces. Its usually pretty easy to see formations and general schemes.
I didn't get a chance to watch the full game until yesterday. First time I saw us go empty backfield I went "holy crap." Second time I saw us do that and actually pass I nearly crap myself. Then I was like "I wonder what _FAN thought of all this."
-
HCIW
-
HCIW
:thumbs: Go _Fan or go home.
-
HCIW
:thumbs: Go _Fan or go home.
:thumbs: _FAN, the first time a read this "joke board," it was one of these _FANalysi (?). This is the reason I came back and eventually started posting.
I am sure I just made a whole bunch of people mad at you, since it is your fault I am on here, but I thought you'd like to know!
-
thank you so much. i could look at this stuff all day.
-
Great work
-
Boss
-
That was really rough ridin' good. It reminded me of some serious ESPN breakdowns. If only I had _Fan reading it aloud to me...
-
Fantastic
-
Would you agree that #4 was essentially an option play that Klein could either keep or throw the "pitch" (bubble) to Lockett based on his read of the outside linebacker? That was how I interpreted it in real time. Also I'm pretty sure I remember on occasional running plays seeing a WR run a similar bubble route.
-
Would you agree that #4 was essentially an option play that Klein could either keep or throw the "pitch" (bubble) to Lockett based on his read of the outside linebacker? That was how I interpreted it in real time. Also I'm pretty sure I remember on occasional running plays seeing a WR run a similar bubble route.
It looks similar to the bubble option we have run in the past, like the play Coffman scored on to beat UCF in the storm game, but that was off zone read action with the QB and RB in a 1 back set. I'm not so sure Klein had an option to run though based on how he set up and how quickly he gets the throw out. We ran this run action bubble last year as well.
-
this is awesome. any chance you could add vid clips of the plays so we can watch it after we read the _Fanalysis?
-
the trick play...
I'll do my best to explain why "The Play" didn't work so well. Part was the difficulty of the behind the back, no look pitch, but a big part was also very poor execution, especially from the tight end and right tackle.
K-State scored in Miami last year in a nearly identical situation, 3rd and goal from inside the 5. However, the formation was 3 receivers split out and only 1 back in the backfield. This year we had double tight ends, 2 backs, and only Harper in at receiver. Miami's defense is tight to the formation, and Harper's motion across the formation removes the corner leaving only the outside linebacker to beat if the reverse was executed.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2F6-The-Play-1.png&hash=f30bd5468e2c3e405bd853f824a14f6f55e39c0c)
There are several keys besides the pitch to the execution of the play. First, the tight end must get a release (short line) behind the linebackers to sell the jump pass. Second, the offensive front must not allow penetration to make the pitch easier for Klein to execute. 3rd, Hubert must get to the edge (long line) and seal the outside linebacker.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2F6-The-Play-2.png&hash=e437f2f4aa39e70e6918bef210d1c0931c6fe528)
Harper times out his turn pretty well to get the timing for the pitch (left circle). However, the tight end is manhandled by the defensive end and is unable to get a release for the quick route. I'm sure that is what Miami's defensive end was coached to do in this situation after we ran the jump pass successfully last year, but the tight end still should be able to get off into his route quicker than he did.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2F6-The-Play-3.png&hash=b59a9cdf939b0c0b99f2e6958a442dc30c42773a)
Making matters worse, as Klein steps up into his jump fake the right tackle has gotten absolutely blown into the backfield (large circle) by Miami's defensive tackle. IMO this disrupted Klein's pitch just enough to make it impossible for Harper to catch. You can also see the tight end is still engaged with the defensive end (small circle) so the jump pass fake is non existent to pull in the outside linebacker inside. Hubert appears to have the outside shoulder blocked of the outside linebacker, so the play still probably scores if the pitch is executed.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2F6-The-Play-4.png&hash=21f582d76e743d2ed82c37b144de55a95adc269b)
Its not until Harper is scrambling for the ball that the tight end finally gets his release. In hindsight its easy to say that Harper should've just fallen on the ball as soon as possible and possibly saved as many as 5 yards, but he reacted and tried to make something happen.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2F6-The-Play-5.png&hash=65747bc947a17a9ae06b29eb00160e38d1276158)
Again, just the pitch part of the play was going to be difficult to execute on its own, but the major mistakes by both the tight end and tackle made execution nearly impossible. I will still contend while difficult and unconventional, the overall design was sound. It just got blown up in large part because Miami's defensive end and tackle made good plays at the point of attack.
-
I really appreciated that breakdown _Fan.
I just don't understand what 3rd and change goal line play lost to that. Maybe Snyder wants to free up the jump pass against OU?
-
I really appreciated that breakdown _Fan.
I just don't understand what 3rd and change goal line play lost to that. Maybe Snyder wants to free up the jump pass against OU?
Its a legit question. On first and goal from the 6 we ran QB lead/power out of a double tight formation with 2 split receivers and gained 2 yards. Second and goal from the 4 we ran the same play from the same formation but to the opposite side and gained 3. We came out in the same formation on 3rd and goal from the 1 and called timeout. There were still 5 seconds on the play clock when we called time out. So yeah, it almost looks like we ran it just to see if it would work and put something crazy on film for opponents. Its about as close to LHC Bill Snyder arrogance as you are going to get for that to happen.
-
That was about the perfect time to try something crazy. We're up big, but it's early enough that there won't be too many cries of RUTS.
If you've put that play in, you might as well use it then, because there aren't going to get many better chances than that.
-
That was about the perfect time to try something crazy. We're up big, but it's early enough that there won't be too many cries of RUTS.
If you've put that play in, you might as well use it then, because there aren't going to get many better chances than that.
yep, hope we run something even more crazy late saturday
-
:thumbs: Awesome job as always, _Fan.
#Team_Fan4HCIW
-
Out of pure curiosity, what is your background in football playing/coaching?
-
Out of pure curiosity, what is your background in football playing/coaching?
Much more coaching than playing, currently a coach.
-
Nice work _FAN.
These are great.
Curious if you took any notes when we went five wide. I didn't get a chance to watch a replay since FSN went to the UTEP game later on Saturday.
-
I'm no _fan, and many may disagree but, I put more blame on Harper for the lone int. on Saturday.
not :opcat:
I was thinking underthrown by design ala 2003 Dr. Pepper ER3 to Terry.
-
I'm no _fan, and many may disagree but, I put more blame on Harper for the lone int. on Saturday.
not :opcat:
I was thinking underthrown by design ala 2003 Dr. Pepper ER3 to Terry.
Why the eff would anyone even think that was :opcat: ????
That you, Joe?
-
I'm no _fan, and many may disagree but, I put more blame on Harper for the lone int. on Saturday.
not :opcat:
I was thinking underthrown by design ala 2003 Dr. Pepper ER3 to Terry.
he was busted early and collin threw it without looking. probably by design but if so they defended it well.
-
hot damn i love it when _fan does these things.
-
great as always, _Fan.
I'm surprised you didn't show the pass to Trujillo. That was a scheme doctor special. I think it was a derivative of the #2 play you showed. Ball on the left hash, Pistol formation, WR to the far and near side, double tight (both uncovered), TE from near side motions far side (wr near side covers tackle), play action.....freezes both safeties and LB's, both TE's run vertical routes (far side TE - Trujillo - runs from far hash to near hash), outside receivers run deep outs.
-
great as always, _Fan.
I'm surprised you didn't show the pass to Trujillo. That was a scheme doctor special. I think it was a derivative of the #2 play you showed. Ball on the left hash, Pistol formation, WR to the far and near side, double tight (both uncovered), TE from near side motions far side (wr near side covers tackle), play action.....freezes both safeties and LB's, both TE's run vertical routes (far side TE - Trujillo - runs from far hash to near hash), outside receivers run deep outs.
Was going to, didn't get to it. I agree that it was really well designed and came from play #2 on concept if we got the same coverage. Will probably put up here tomorrow of I get time.
-
Thank you. :thumbs: I enjoy these very much!
-
It's like watching the Matrix with Keanu. Great work.
-
guy on GPC who's getting sued for pervy office antics sees _FANalysis, attempts to copy:
kcatty.com
A solid starter
Post #5410
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore An example of Snyder's mastery of in-game adjustments Reply
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This play offers a great example of how Snyder is one of the best, if not the best college coach at making in-game adjustments. You can get the full context if you watch the Miami secondary adjust to our formations for the entire game because you'll see Miami adjust to our 4 WR formation. If you'd rather not, simply know that by this point in the game, Snyder is fairly confident that in response to this formation, Miami will play cover 3, even though Miami will try and make it look like they are playing cover 2.
Cover 3 is a bad defense against 2 WRs on each side because it leaves a gap where the 1/3 deep zones meet. Cover 2 is ideal because it eliminates the gap in the deep zones, making a deep or intermediate pass much harder to complete. Everyone knows Cover 3 is a bad idea against 2 WRs on each side and Miami is trying to hide it.
If you watch, Miami gives the cover 2 look until right before the ball is snapped. Even though Miami is giving the cover 2 look, Klein knows that they Miami's defense will switch to cover 3 and he puts the ball right in the gap in the zone, in stride to Sexton. Klein knows this because Snyder has figured out earlier in the game that Miami is adjusting to our offensive formations, just as they do on this play.
Need more explanation? Cover 3 means that the defensive secondary splits the deep zones in 1/3s, with the corners and a safety splitting the deep zone. Cover 2 means that 2 secondary players split the deep zones into 1/2s, with the safeties usually doing the work. However, when a team has more than 1 receiver on a side, a defensive corner is taught to go deep if both receivers go deep, effectively making it a 1/4-1/4-1/2 arrangement. If there are 2 or more wide-recievers on each side, and more than 1 goes deep on each side, you end up with a cover 4 arrangement, with the corners and safeties playing 1/4s on the deep zone.
Here are some pictures to help visualize:
Cover 2:
Cover 2, turning into cover 4 as the WRs go deep:
Now this is how we attacked the cover 3:
-
Yuck what a pervert.
-
He was giving tips on how to download the video from my youtube of the miami game.
-
Not bad, but he should've added Sexton and the inside receiver crossing, which created even more space in the cover 3 seam.
Trim, on a side note, are you planning to upload every game to youtube? I'd appreciate it if you could. :thumbsup:
-
And I'll add that its sad that someone can't just link stuff I've done to add to those discussions without it being taken down. Not that I'm all that great, but my goal is helping our fans understand the game. If GPC folks read it, its all good. Nothing I do is intended to be competition to what GPC does, even if the powers that be there make it that way.
-
And I'll add that its sad that someone can't just link stuff I've done to add to those discussions without it being taken down. Not that I'm all that great, but my goal is helping our fans understand the game. If GPC folks read it, its all good. Nothing I do is intended to be competition to what GPC does, even if the powers that be there make it that way.
This has been a public service _FANnouncement.
-
And I'll add that its sad that someone can't just link stuff I've done to add to those discussions without it being taken down. Not that I'm all that great, but my goal is helping our fans understand the game. If GPC folks read it, its all good. Nothing I do is intended to be competition to what GPC does, even if the powers that be there make it that way.
Just put a stamp on every image or whatever. You should take it as a form of flattery, IMO.
-
Not bad, but he should've added Sexton and the inside receiver crossing, which created even more space in the cover 3 seam.
Trim, on a side note, are you planning to upload every game to youtube? I'd appreciate it if you could. :thumbsup:
I should be able to for any that are on regular TV and so long as there aren't any youtube copyright gripes. Even if youtube kills it, I'll have them and we could figure out some other method to get them to you.
-
I wonder how many times he says EVERYONE KNOWS while kicking ass in the courtroom.
-
the pass to Trujillo. That was a scheme doctor special. I think it was a derivative of the #2 play you showed. Ball on the left hash, Pistol formation, WR to the far and near side, double tight (both uncovered), TE from near side motions far side (wr near side covers tackle), play action.....freezes both safeties and LB's, both TE's run vertical routes (far side TE - Trujillo - runs from far hash to near hash), outside receivers run deep outs.
As catzacker said, K-State is aligned in a double tight end formation, 1 back pistol, and 2 receivers. Miami has brought their outside linebacker up to the line of scrimmage on the wide side of the field. They are showing 2 deep safeties (one is off the frame) and now are playing their corners off the recievers 5-7 yards.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2F7-Tannahill-1.png&hash=e480038be3a3bceb2e54bd342544edc640886e4c)
Before the snap K-State executes a shift, with the tight end backing up and the bottom receiver moving up on the line of scrimmage. The tight end then motions across the formation. Miami's only adjustment is to begin to bring the deep safety up toward the line of scrimmage and the weak side of the formation. Miami likely does this because K-State often will run back to the weak side, especially with zone read action from the pistol. Sams biggest run of the game comes later from the same set, though without the shift and motion. The tight end or fullback will come back to the weak side from that alignment and block the outside linebacker or safety for the quarter back with the back running behind zone blocking to the strong side. This also forces Miami into a cover 3 zone.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2F7-Tannahill-2.png&hash=9d8c95fa3f7d7b785dcdb38f8f4907c979057330)
Right before the snap Miami looks to be fine; they have 2 linebackers and a safety over the top of the stacked tight ends. The safety circles here now becomes the deep middle zone defender and you'll see how two verticals from the tight ends puts him in a bind. However, K-State also knows the tendency of Miami's linebackers to come forward at the snap, especially with a zone read fake (which happens here, but is not shown in the frames). As a result they don't get a good jam on tight ends releasing, especially out of this formation. More on that later.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2F7-Tannahill-3.png&hash=97975506a8dedd8138b07957c2df006e5354ba1d)
The tight end that motioned runs wide to the top side hash which freezes and widens the deep safety (on the PowerCat); the safety is just stopping his forward motion after reading the zone read fake. This allows Tannahill to get off on his route easily, you can see circled the middle linebacker barely gets a piece of him as he runs by. The others safety toward the bottom of the screen has also stepped up with the run fake and Miami now has no deep middle defender to cover the tight end vertical route.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2F7-Tannahill-4.png&hash=37b36878705c7d991674dbb17334f63a80037e03)
Trujillo makes the catch with no one within 5 yards and is able to get the ball down to the 5 yard line.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2F7-Tannahill-5.png&hash=1affff04c4ad055cdb0e3847378347f61c82f3a9)
This play also shows how coaches pick up tendencies that they use later in the game. In all likely hood, the K-State offensive coaches knew they could get an opening with this formation from this play in the 1st quarter. Wilson is at tight end here, but K-State executed the same shift and motion to get to the same alignment. Now, Miami is a slightly different defensive alignment and coverage, but the mistake by the linebacker is the same. Klein ended up throwing this ball outside to Harper, but the inside tight end was also wide open down the middle on this route.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2F7-Tannahill-6.png&hash=f705b662653ef3560ad84c6a031f96e16c847204)
Here you see the tight end running free with the linebacker (this time an outside linebacker) making the same mistake of not getting a good jam on him. The safeties are also coming forward and out of position from the run fake.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2F7-Tannahill-7.png&hash=ef088e67c94747072abb8212dd692e75fa86cf17)