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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball => Topic started by: sonofdaxjones on August 17, 2012, 03:06:38 PM
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Again, the MINIMUM expectation for K-State and for K-State's coach (whoever it is) to keep their job.
For me:
1. Top 4 in conference 4 out of every 5 years.
2. Challange for conference title 1 out of every 4 years.
3. Make the NCAA tourney 4 out of every 5 years, never lower than a 9th seed.
4. Always winning the 1st round game of every NCAA tourney K-State is in.
5. Sweet 16 (at least)- 2 out of every 4 NCAA tourney appearences.
NONE of that is too much to ask IMO. There are multiple schools in the Big 12 that are Football-Baseball schools. It is not unreasonable to ask that K-State basketball stay at the level it is now, and to sustain a constant level of above to well above average success like it had from the 1950's to the late 1980's. Any period that even approaches the 1990's should be met with termination of coaches and administrators with extreme prejudice. The BTF eliminates a number of built in excuses.
Once Phase III of the Football Facilities is complete, there should be an immediate move to have significant upgrades to Bramlage done, with non construction upgrades already completed well before then, i.e new banners, video boards, sound system and ribbon boards in the arena itself.
There should also be a revenue target of no less than $8.5 million a year from basketball.
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:flush:
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I agree with most of that. I would have gone with "are" instead of "is" in the title though. #4 might be a little steep.
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Make the NCAA tourney every single year.
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How many teams in the country have done that over the last 10 years?
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Again, the MINIMUM expectation for K-State and for K-State's coach (whoever it is) to keep their job.
For me:
1. Top 4 in conference 4 out of every 5 years.
2. Challange for conference title 1 out of every 4 years.
3. Make the NCAA tourney 4 out of every 5 years, never lower than a 9th seed.
4. Always winning the 1st round game of every NCAA tourney K-State is in.
5. Sweet 16 (at least)- 2 out of every 4 NCAA tourney appearences.
NONE of that is too much to ask IMO. There are multiple schools in the Big 12 that are Football-Baseball schools. It is not unreasonable to ask that K-State basketball stay at the level it is now, and to sustain a constant level of above to well above average success like it had from the 1950's to the late 1980's. Any period that even approaches the 1990's should be met with termination of coaches and administrators with extreme prejudice. The BTF eliminates a number of built in excuses.
Once Phase III of the Football Facilities is complete, there should be an immediate move to have significant upgrades to Bramlage done, with non construction upgrades already completed well before then, i.e new banners, video boards, sound system and ribbon boards in the arena itself.
There should also be a revenue target of no less than $8.5 million a year from basketball.
:dnr:
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Surprised by some of the responses . . . seem to recall one or two on here who were fine with an NCAA tourney miss now and again. Maybe I am mis-remembering (intentional)
:dnr ='s "I read the whole rough ridin' thing . . . twice".
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closer to maximum expectation than minimum imo
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1. Keep the little cat slam jam.
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NCAA tourney every year. I mean..you gotta be a crappy team to not make the tournament now. Side expectations are to get a title every now and then and produce NBA talent.
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Just to add some facts to the discussion
Using the past ten years, how do the schools in the B12 fare under these expectations?
1. Top 4 in conference 4 out of every 5 years.
KU - passes (100%)
KSU - fails (40%)
ISU - fails (10%)
CU - fails (10%)
NU - fails (0%)
MU - fails (20%)
OU - fails (40%)
OSU - fails (20%)
UT - fails (50%)
A&M - fails (50%)
TT - fails (10%)
BU - fails (20%)
2. Challange for conference title 1 out of every 4 years. (Within 2 games)
KU - passes (100%)
KSU - fails (0%)
ISU - fails (0%)
CU - fails (0%)
NU - fails (0%)
MU - fails (20%)
OU -passes (30%)
OSU - fails (20%)
UT - passes (50%)
A&M - fails (10%)
TT - fails (10%)
BU - fails (0%)
3. Make the NCAA tourney 4 out of every 5 years, never lower than a 9th seed.
KU - passes (100%)
KSU - fails (30%)
ISU - fails (10%)
CU - fails (0%)
NU - fails (0%)
MU - fails (30%)
OU - fails (50%)
OSU - fails (40%)
UT - fails (90%)
A&M - fails (50%)
TT - fails (20%)
BU - fails (20%)
4. Always winning the 1st round game of every NCAA tourney K-State is in.
KU - fails (80%)
KSU - passes (100%)
ISU - passes (100%)
CU - fails (50%)
NU - fails (0%)
MU - fails (50%)
OU - fails (80%)
OSU - fails (75%)
UT - fails (80%)
A&M - passes (100%)
TT - fails (67%)
BU - fails (67%)
5. Sweet 16 (at least)- 2 out of every 4 NCAA tourney appearences.
KU - pases (60%)
ISU - fails (0%)
CU - fails (0%)
ISU - fails (25%)
NU - fails (0%)
MU - fails (20%)
OU - fails (40%)
OSU - passes (50%)
UT - fails (40%)
A&M - fails (20%)
TT - fails (33%)
BU - passes (67%)
0 schools pass all tests
1 passes 4 (KU)
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so.... do you want dax to lower his expectations or what is it that you want?
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so.... do you want dax to lower his expectations or what is it that you want?
I don't want anything. I just added some actual facts to the "discussion" to perhaps put things into perspective. Basically you can eff off.
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so.... do you want dax to lower his expectations or what is it that you want?
I don't want anything. I just added some actual facts to the "discussion" to perhaps put things into perspective. Basically you can eff off.
sports are about feelings, not facts. you of all people should know that.
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so.... do you want dax to lower his expectations or what is it that you want?
I don't want anything. I just added some actual facts to the "discussion" to perhaps put things into perspective. Basically you can eff off.
sports are about feelings, not facts. you of all people should know that.
I disagree almost 100% with that statement.
you know nothing about me and/or what I should know you presumptuous bad person
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so.... do you want dax to lower his expectations or what is it that you want?
I don't want anything. I just added some actual facts to the "discussion" to perhaps put things into perspective. Basically you can eff off.
sports are about feelings, not facts. you of all people should know that.
I disagree almost 100% with that statement.
you know nothing about me and/or what I should know you presumptuous bad person
i feel sorry for you, msc.
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:lol:
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:lol:
sys is laughing b/c if frank couldn't do it (didn't even come close) then no one can.
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pffft
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Dax, I don't know much about B-ball, but those seem like pretty steep expectos, given what Chingon said.
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We're a football school.
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Dax, I don't know much about B-ball, but those seem like pretty steep expectos, given what Chingon said.
They "feel" attainable when you think of what a long-term coach would do in those ten years. Of course, how many schools retain a coach for ten years? Except for the historical basketball schools, coaches achieving those results will move on to "bigger and better" and coaches not achieving them will get let go with the schools imagining somebody else can achieve those results.
Our situation was kind of weird.
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It is pretty clear what dax wants, he wants to be KU. KU being a dominant force in this league kills him inside.
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#1 seed and a National Championship game appearance in year one. Anything less and he should be fired.
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Wow Chin . . . really hammered home how achievable the minimum conference I put down are given how relatively weak and inconsistent the conference teams are once you get past ku.
No excuse for K-State not to step up and meet the minimum.
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Wow Chin . . . really hammered home how achievable the minimum conference I put down are given how relatively weak and inconsistent the conference teams are once you get past ku.
No excuse for K-State not to step up and meet the minimum.
I think you may have misinterpreted the data.
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Wow Chin . . . really hammered home how achievable the minimum conference I put down are given how relatively weak and inconsistent the conference teams are once you get past ku.
No excuse for K-State not to step up and meet the minimum.
I think you may have misinterpreted the data.
Not really.
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He saw the part where no one has ever met those expectations in the history of the league right?
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To be fair, Ching's data goes back 10 years which includes Huggs and Wooly. Off the top of my head, Frank did 1 and 4, came close on 5 and 3.
I think NCAA tourney 4 of 5 years is fair. As far as a seed restriction, I would want half of those years to be 6 or higher.
Competing for a Big 12 title once every 4 or 5 years is fair. Frank failed at that.
Averaging a win in the NCAA tourney every year we go. If we go out in the first round one year, I want a sweet 16 to even it.
Top 4 in conference isn't something I care about as long as the others are met and would most likely take care of itself
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Top 4 in conference isn't something I care about as long as the others are met and would most likely take care of itself
Agree it would easily take care of itself if the others were met, but eff, I loved "no wednesdays."
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I read back through what Chings posted again . . . you could maybe dumb down my minimum expectations slightly. But again, what Chings posted tells me that stepping up to a level of consistency very near where ku is at now is an attainable.
I would also add, that my viewpoint is influenced by the fact that K-State offers the minimum number of sports . . . that fact combined with the probability that K-State athletics, at current levels of giving and with projected media/bowl/conference distributions will be an extremely profitable athletic department. Hell, as it stands now, K-State is spending millions more on athletics than a number of other D1 schools who field more athletic teams, if K-State doesn't add sports, that's going to become even pronounced in the future.
So, there's really no reason not to have TWO extremely solid major sports at K-State.
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I'm making this post primarily based on facilities, program interest, program history, etc.
We should not expect to consistently do better in a 5-10 year period than these Big 12 schools:
Texas
KU
We should be about on par with or slightly better than these schools in said 5-10 year period:
West Virginia
Oklahoma State (once they get their crap together they'll be a consistent power with their facilities)
Schools we should always be better than:
Oklahoma does not give a single flying crap about basketball and hasn't since the 1980's. Baylor will fall off when the NCAA finally nails Scott Drew. Istate0, Texas Tech, TCU? GTFO.
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I'm making this post primarily based on facilities, program interest, program history, etc.
We should not expect to consistently do better in a 5-10 year period than these Big 12 schools:
Texas
KU
We should be about on par with or slightly better than these schools in said 5-10 year period:
West Virginia
Oklahoma State (once they get their crap together they'll be a consistent power with their facilities)
Schools we should always be better than:
Oklahoma does not give a single flying crap about basketball and hasn't since the 1980's. Baylor will fall off when the NCAA finally nails Scott Drew. Istate0, Texas Tech, TCU? GTFO.
This is an island of reason in a sea of delusion.
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I'm making this post primarily based on facilities, program interest, program history, etc.
We should not expect to consistently do better in a 5-10 year period than these Big 12 schools:
Texas
KU
We should be about on par with or slightly better than these schools in said 5-10 year period:
West Virginia
Oklahoma State (once they get their crap together they'll be a consistent power with their facilities)
Schools we should always be better than:
Oklahoma does not give a single flying crap about basketball and hasn't since the 1980's. Baylor will fall off when the NCAA finally nails Scott Drew. Istate0, Texas Tech, TCU? GTFO.
That's a pretty good standard. I would move isu and ou up a line, though.
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42's standard is Top 5 every year . . . massive difference from me . . . HUGE.
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Seems like we have had more success than Texas in the last 5 years. No reason to think we couldn't out succeed them for the next 5
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42's standard is Top 5 every year . . . massive difference from me . . . HUGE.
That's the absolute bare minimum. I should've put in a caveat that the occasional stab (once every 2-3 years) into the Top 3 should also be expected of any coach that's here. Any year that's below the Top 5 should immediately put whoever is coaching us on notice and make their seat get hot very, very quickly.
I also didn't put anything about the NCAA's just because I was comparing us to other programs. We should make the NCAA tournament every year, no excuses. An NIT bid--barring extenuating circumstances like a new coach taking over the program from a coach that's driven KSU into the ground--is just plain unacceptable.
Seems like we have had more success than Texas in the last 5 years. No reason to think we couldn't out succeed them for the next 5
That's because Rick Barnes can be almost as bad of an X's and O's coach as Scott Drew. You get someone who can recruit like Barnes but can also manage a team at UT and they're a Top 2 mainstay almost every year. We'll never be able to consistently say we should beat finish above Texas every year given their infrastructure unless it's neglected to Oklahoma-like levels (i.e. they go back to the UT basketball program of the 1990's)
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I'm making this post primarily based on facilities, program interest, program history, etc.
We should not expect to consistently do better in a 5-10 year period than these Big 12 schools:
Texas
KU
We should be about on par with or slightly better than these schools in said 5-10 year period:
West Virginia
Oklahoma State (once they get their crap together they'll be a consistent power with their facilities)
Schools we should always be better than:
Oklahoma does not give a single flying crap about basketball and hasn't since the 1980's. Baylor will fall off when the NCAA finally nails Scott Drew. Istate0, Texas Tech, TCU? GTFO.
That's a pretty good standard. I would move isu and ou up a line, though.
I don't see ISU and OU as on the same level as WVU and OSU. They're definitely a step above the really crap programs, though. Maybe a new category like "we should expect to be better than these teams most of the time" would be good for ISU and OU, while finishing below BU (sans Drew), TTU, and TCU should be considered fireable offenses unless one of them has a really good fluke year.
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Minimum expectations should be 1 tournament every 3 three years. Maybe 2 out of every 4 years.
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Minimum expectations should be 1 tournament every 3 three years. Maybe 2 out of every 4 years.
You must love Weber
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Fun Muffin is focusing on the word minimum. I'm not entirely sure some of you understand that word.
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Fun Muffin can focus on whatever word he wants. I expect more than a tourney appearance once every 3 years and people with that expectation will keep Weber here forever.
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Fun Muffin can focus on whatever word he wants. I expect more than a tourney appearance once every 3 years and people with that expectation will keep Weber here forever.
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Well Tobias and Chicat, what are your minimum expectations? Lowest a coach could achieve and not get fired basically.
Mine are in line with 42, I'd add tourney more years than not, and a tourney run of sweet sixteen or better 2 times in 10 years.
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42's standard is Top 5 every year . . . massive difference from me . . . HUGE.
Where did anyone say that individual expectation was too much? It was your expectations in sum that people have issue with.
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everyone trying to reason down dax's list is almost funnier than the original dax list.
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everyone trying to reason down dax's list is almost funnier than the original dax list.
Not nearly as funny as Sys: Torch Bearer for a bygone regime
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I would love to see our program get to the point where dax's standards are absolutely in line with what our program should be achieving at a bare minimum. But I think we'd need a Final Four appearance or a Big 12 title before dax's standards can become the minimum expectation. Right now, we're an upper level Big 12 basketball program that should regularly be in the NCAA tournament, and the potential is there to become a contender, but right now we still have some major barriers in the way, both immediate and long term (practice facility isn't finished, overbearing AD, "can't recruit to Manhattan" meme). We have to overcome those before we can put some distance between us and WVU/OSU and permanently leave ISU and OU in the rear view mirror.
UT and especially KU far and away have a better infrastructure than us to get the best players and either program would need a catastrophic blow to get knocked off of the mountain. The practice facility will put us at the upper end of the Big 12 spectrum in basketball facilities, and if the Bram locker rooms and such can get renovated, then we'll be at the elite level in basketball facilities compared to the rest of the country. The bball practice facility will put us on par with OSU and WVU in terms of program infrastructure, they are/will be our peers for program strength and recruiting. OSU smashed their "can't recruit to Stillwater" meme years ago thanks to T. Boone, and we can do the same IF we finally start dumping some money into the program. We also have an advantage over OSU and WVU: an in-town airport that's reasonably easy to fly into.
If we get the right coach (i.e. not oscar or Frank) who can recruit their ass off and an athletic director who won't micromanage said coach to death, the potential is in place to start competing regularly with KU and Texas for the occasional conference title. If Texas hires someone terrible and/or KU loses Bill Self to the Spurs, the potential is in place for KSU to displace them in the elite tier of Big 12 basketball. But all of these things have to occur in a perfect storm of momentum for us, and how likely is that to happen within the next 5 years? Currie and oscar would have to leave, and we'd have to hire an outstanding AD and a competent basketball coach to turn around what might be a moribund program by 2015. The AD position is more important right now, because we won't get a good coach until we get an AD who is willing to open the purse strings and give them the support they need to make gains in the Big 12 arms race (as well as look the other way when necessary). Until we get to that point, the best we can reasonably hope to do is keep ISU and OU at bay, wait for the axe to drop on Baylor, and try and jostle with WVU and OSU for the 3-5 spots in most years, the occasional stab at a top 2 finish or rebuilding year aside.
Honestly, most of the other Big 12 programs probably see us at 6th or even 7th on the program totem pole now that we've hired a proven loser (this year's likely 2nd-4th place finish aside), so I don't think my expectations are that weak. Baylor, ISU, and OU have the potential to pass us while oscar is here (some would argue Baylor already has and will as long as Drew doesn't have a show cause), although Baylor's and ISU's ability to knock us out of the top half of the conference isn't as sustainable as OU's is over an extended period of time.
For what it's worth, I don't think dax's expectations are flagrantly homer-esque on the Big 12 side of things nor massively different from my expectations there, they're just a bit stronger than what I could agree with. Where I mainly disagree with him is his NCAA expectations; there may be years when we're lower than a 9th seed if we finish 5th in the Big 12, and we're not a top 16 program nationally so I don't expect to send up in the Sweet Sixteen every 2 out of 4 appearances. Top 32, sure, but we have a ways to go before making that next step.
tl;dr: Currie and oscar have to go and be replaced by better personnel before dax's minimum expectations can really become reality for KSU. Until then, we're in the upper half of the Big 12 but not a Top 3 mainstay.
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everyone trying to reason down dax's list is almost funnier than the original dax list.
Not nearly as funny as Sys: Torch Bearer for a bygone regime
the two are completely correlated. anyone smart enough to how stupid your list is would weep for the success that we retardedly threw in the sec's trash.
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everyone trying to reason down dax's list is almost funnier than the original dax list.
Not nearly as funny as Sys: Torch Bearer for a bygone regime
the two are completely correlated. anyone smart enough to how stupid your list is would weep for the success that we retardedly threw in the sec's trash.
sys, assuming Frank didn't get forced out, do you think that his recruiting was going to be sustainable enough to keep us consistently in the Top 4 of the Big 12 over the next 5-10 years?
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sys, assuming Frank didn't get forced out, do you think that his recruiting was going to be sustainable enough to keep us consistently in the Top 4 of the Big 12 over the next 5-10 years?
i don't know. top 4 in the big 12 is pretty unrealistic for kstate long-term. i do know that by far kstate's best chance to stay in that position was to retain martin. hiring anyone new would have like a 99% probability of less success.
which is why i consider the people angry about hiring weber, rather than failing to retain martin, to be rough ridin' idiots. my signature says everything there is to say about currie's incompetency.
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sys, assuming Frank didn't get forced out, do you think that his recruiting was going to be sustainable enough to keep us consistently in the Top 4 of the Big 12 over the next 5-10 years?
i don't know. top 4 in the big 12 is pretty unrealistic for kstate long-term. i do know that by far kstate's best chance to stay in that position was to retain martin. hiring anyone new would have like a 99% probability of less success.
which is why i consider the people angry about hiring weber, rather than failing to retain martin, to be rough ridin' idiots. my signature says everything there is to say about currie's incompetency.
I think as long as Currie's here that could be accurate. If we had a better AD though, we could've done better than Frank. It seems like he burned enough bridges in recruiting that we would've experienced a slow decline over time.
I also don't think that 3-4 years of bad Bruceketball will completely destroy our program as long as the proper steps are taken to correct it (see my post above). Basketball programs can be pretty resilient and turn around quickly, especially if the right stuff's in place like the indoor practice facility. That said, if oscar doesn't pull out an amazing 5 year stretch as is likely and we screw up the next hire, then yes, we've just ran aground.
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sys, assuming Frank didn't get forced out, do you think that his recruiting was going to be sustainable enough to keep us consistently in the Top 4 of the Big 12 over the next 5-10 years?
i don't know. top 4 in the big 12 is pretty unrealistic for kstate long-term. i do know that by far kstate's best chance to stay in that position was to retain martin. hiring anyone new would have like a 99% probability of less success.
which is why i consider the people angry about hiring weber, rather than failing to retain martin, to be rough ridin' idiots. my signature says everything there is to say about currie's incompetency.
I think as long as Currie's here that could be accurate. If we had a better AD though, we could've done better than Frank. It seems like he burned enough bridges in recruiting that we would've experienced a slow decline over time.
You're just believing the dax/currie bullshit. His recruiting was improving, not getting worse.
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Minimum expectations should be 1 tournament every 3 three years. Maybe 2 out of every 4 years.
Fun Muffin is focusing on the word minimum. I'm not entirely sure some of you understand that word.
False. I would want our coach rough ridin' fired for 1 tournament out of 3 or 2 out of 4. That is below minimum expectations.
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sys, assuming Frank didn't get forced out, do you think that his recruiting was going to be sustainable enough to keep us consistently in the Top 4 of the Big 12 over the next 5-10 years?
i don't know. top 4 in the big 12 is pretty unrealistic for kstate long-term. i do know that by far kstate's best chance to stay in that position was to retain martin. hiring anyone new would have like a 99% probability of less success.
which is why i consider the people angry about hiring weber, rather than failing to retain martin, to be rough ridin' idiots. my signature says everything there is to say about currie's incompetency.
I think as long as Currie's here that could be accurate. If we had a better AD though, we could've done better than Frank. It seems like he burned enough bridges in recruiting that we would've experienced a slow decline over time.
You're just believing the dax/currie bullshit. His recruiting was improving, not getting worse.
I was mainly getting that view from what steve dave had been saying and that the DC and MO-KAN pipelines were running dry, not what dax was saying.
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I think there were always stories of cracks in Martin's coaching/recruiting and reasons to worry abit. Everytime the panic started though his teams pulled it back together. For us to let coaches fail here repeatedly and then to, essentially, justify letting a successful coach leave for fear of him not sustaining success is absolutely ridiculous.
And Cfor3, I posted my expectations earlier. To not get fired, I expect 2 of the 3 and be reasonably close on the third. I think my expectations are fair for a team expected to consistently compete in the 15-35 range of CBB.
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I was mainly getting that view from what steve dave had been saying and that the DC and MO-KAN pipelines were running dry, not what dax was saying.
DC had been dried up for several years. The evidence that "MO-KAN was dry" is losing a guy to KU and a guy to Kentucky. And overall, non-DCA recruiting was stronger than ever.
Doesn't really matter though.
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I think there were always stories of cracks in Martin's coaching/recruiting and reasons to worry abit. Everytime the panic started though his teams pulled it back together. For us to let coaches fail here repeatedly and then to, essentially, justify letting a successful coach leave for fear of him not sustaining success is absolutely ridiculous.
And Cfor3, I posted my expectations earlier. To not get fired, I expect 2 of the 3 and be reasonably close on the third. I think my expectations are fair for a team expected to consistently compete in the 15-35 range of CBB.
2 out of 3 sounds reasonable. Especially with the tourney being 68
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DC had been dried up for several years. The evidence that "MO-KAN was dry" is losing a guy to KU and a guy to Kentucky.
just to uk. i assume you mean ellis with ku, but he hadn't been mo-kan affliated in many years.
people were also talking up the ojeleye situ., but his subsequent lack of interest in kstate, and custer's subsequent interest in south carolina kinda indicates how either irrelevant or incorrect the supposed mokan/martin rift was.
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:sdeek:
guess i need to pay more attention in the recruiting threads then. still think my minimum expectations are pretty reasonable though long term
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Minimum should be what frank did.
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Again, the MINIMUM expectation for K-State and for K-State's coach (whoever it is) to keep their job.
For me:
1. Top 4 in conference 4 out of every 5 years.
2. Challange for conference title 1 out of every 4 years.
3. Make the NCAA tourney 4 out of every 5 years, never lower than a 9th seed.
4. Always winning the 1st round game of every NCAA tourney K-State is in.
5. Sweet 16 (at least)- 2 out of every 4 NCAA tourney appearences.
NONE of that is too much to ask IMO. There are multiple schools in the Big 12 that are Football-Baseball schools. It is not unreasonable to ask that K-State basketball stay at the level it is now, and to sustain a constant level of above to well above average success like it had from the 1950's to the late 1980's. Any period that even approaches the 1990's should be met with termination of coaches and administrators with extreme prejudice. The BTF eliminates a number of built in excuses.
Once Phase III of the Football Facilities is complete, there should be an immediate move to have significant upgrades to Bramlage done, with non construction upgrades already completed well before then, i.e new banners, video boards, sound system and ribbon boards in the arena itself.
There should also be a revenue target of no less than $8.5 million a year from basketball.
You've just described the absolute ceiling for this program, FWIW.
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Frank Martin's last 2 recruiting classes at K-State:
Freddy Asprilla-FRANKED
Juevol Myles-FRANKED
Shane Southwell-Mediocrity Lives Here
Will Spradling-I Bet Frank regrets that one.
Nino Williams-We'll see I guess
Adrian Diaz-Could be decent
Thomas Gipson-Pretty Good
Jeremy Jones- :dunno:
Omari Lawrence-Frank hated him
Angel Rodriquez-Probably the Crown Jewel of 2 recruiting classes
James Watson :dunno:
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Frank Martin's last 2 recruiting classes at K-State:
Freddy Asprilla-FRANKED
Juevol Myles-FRANKED
Shane Southwell-Mediocrity Lives Here
Will Spradling-I Bet Frank regrets that one.
Nino Williams-We'll see I guess
Adrian Diaz-Could be decent
Thomas Gipson-Pretty Good
Jeremy Jones- :dunno:
Omari Lawrence-Frank hated him
Angel Rodriquez-Probably the Crown Jewel of 2 recruiting classes
James Watson :dunno:
I would have enjoyed RUIII :dunno:
Also, Chings, use the last 5 years of data, instead of 10 years, and redo. What you have there is the equivalent of looking at the previous 10 years of KSU football data circa 1994.
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:dunno: = WEBER'D?
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Again, the MINIMUM expectation for K-State and for K-State's coach (whoever it is) to keep their job.
For me:
1. Top 4 in conference 4 out of every 5 years.
2. Challange for conference title 1 out of every 4 years.
3. Make the NCAA tourney 4 out of every 5 years, never lower than a 9th seed.
4. Always winning the 1st round game of every NCAA tourney K-State is in.
5. Sweet 16 (at least)- 2 out of every 4 NCAA tourney appearences.
NONE of that is too much to ask IMO. There are multiple schools in the Big 12 that are Football-Baseball schools. It is not unreasonable to ask that K-State basketball stay at the level it is now, and to sustain a constant level of above to well above average success like it had from the 1950's to the late 1980's. Any period that even approaches the 1990's should be met with termination of coaches and administrators with extreme prejudice. The BTF eliminates a number of built in excuses.
Once Phase III of the Football Facilities is complete, there should be an immediate move to have significant upgrades to Bramlage done, with non construction upgrades already completed well before then, i.e new banners, video boards, sound system and ribbon boards in the arena itself.
There should also be a revenue target of no less than $8.5 million a year from basketball.
You've just described the absolute ceiling for this program, FWIW.
The standard of success is what was defined under Huggins/Martin. Everything on that list has proven to be attainable.
And if that standard can't be upheld, then that person shouldn't be coaching here.
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Again, the MINIMUM expectation for K-State and for K-State's coach (whoever it is) to keep their job.
For me:
1. Top 4 in conference 4 out of every 5 years.
2. Challange for conference title 1 out of every 4 years.
3. Make the NCAA tourney 4 out of every 5 years, never lower than a 9th seed.
4. Always winning the 1st round game of every NCAA tourney K-State is in.
5. Sweet 16 (at least)- 2 out of every 4 NCAA tourney appearences.
NONE of that is too much to ask IMO. There are multiple schools in the Big 12 that are Football-Baseball schools. It is not unreasonable to ask that K-State basketball stay at the level it is now, and to sustain a constant level of above to well above average success like it had from the 1950's to the late 1980's. Any period that even approaches the 1990's should be met with termination of coaches and administrators with extreme prejudice. The BTF eliminates a number of built in excuses.
Once Phase III of the Football Facilities is complete, there should be an immediate move to have significant upgrades to Bramlage done, with non construction upgrades already completed well before then, i.e new banners, video boards, sound system and ribbon boards in the arena itself.
There should also be a revenue target of no less than $8.5 million a year from basketball.
You've just described the absolute ceiling for this program, FWIW.
The standard of success is what was defined under Huggins/Martin. Everything on that list has proven to be attainable.
And if that standard can't be upheld, then that person shouldn't be coaching here.
Call me crazy, but I'm pretty certain #5 was not attained in the Hugs/Frank era...
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Never miss the tournament in back to back seasons and have a winning record in the tournament - everything else will take care of it self
This should be the goal and is attainable for every BCS program that gives a crap about basketball
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I tend to agree with Dax, though I think that the program he describes doesn’t exist long term. And it doesn’t exist because if you do what he says over the course of 10-15 years, then towards the end of that time, you are no long expecting just that, you are now expecting more because it probably means you’re an elite-ish program. And if you go along with what everyone else “expects” over the course of 10 years, then you end up just hoping for the tourney once every 3 years because you inevitably begin to slip.
It’s like, you’re either elite or you’re not. If aren’t, then you argue over these insignificant/irrelevant “milestones” or whatever, if you are, then you argue over championships.
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my goals-
1)be relevant
2)give me realistic hope that something amazing could happen on occasion (ie-elite 8, winning the conf tourney, beating top 10 team on the road)
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I just want him to be really nice and instill ks values in our boys. :emawkid:
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And don't lose to KU twenty straight years on your home court. That shouldn't happen.
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And don't lose to KU twenty straight years on your home court. That shouldn't happen.
This.
Dax doesn't want to mention KU, but our goals are driven by their success.
Beating KU 1/3rd of the time is acceptable. Nothing else matters.
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And don't lose to KU twenty straight years on your home court. That shouldn't happen.
This.
Dax doesn't want to mention KU, but our goals are driven by their success.
Beating KU 1/3rd of the time is acceptable. Nothing else matters.
Oh boy, oh boy. Would slowly strangle Andre McDonald's baby pit bull puppies with my bare hands for this.
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we don't deserve nice things.
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And don't lose to KU twenty straight years on your home court. That shouldn't happen.
This.
Dax doesn't want to mention KU, but our goals are driven by their success.
Beating KU 1/3rd of the time is acceptable. Nothing else matters.
Tuck your rough ridin' shirt in a little harder, why don't you? Unless that post was sarcastic, you are the worst kind of K-State basketball fan.
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And don't lose to KU twenty straight years on your home court. That shouldn't happen.
This.
Dax doesn't want to mention KU, but our goals are driven by their success.
Beating KU 1/3rd of the time is acceptable. Nothing else matters.
Tuck your rough ridin' shirt in a little harder, why don't you? Unless that post was sarcastic, you are the worst kind of K-State basketball fan.
You will have to explain this position further if you want a response.
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Sorry, tying our expectations solely to our success or failure against KU is dumb. Losing 20 straight at home, or anything of the sort is unacceptable, but saying that success against KU is all that matters is asinine.
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Sorry, tying our expectations solely to our success or failure against KU is dumb. Losing 20 straight at home, or anything of the sort is unacceptable, but saying that success against KU is all that matters is asinine.
Thing is, we've got a helluva steady measuring stick right up the road. Asking to beat KU 1/3 of the time is actually a shorthand way of saying you're a pretty damn good program. It's not like Iowa State wanting to to beat Iowa or something. (Although saying "nothing else matters" is a bit much.)
Or at least that's the way I see it. :dunno:
P.S. Nice fishin' Dax.
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Sorry, tying our expectations solely to our success or failure against KU is dumb. Losing 20 straight at home, or anything of the sort is unacceptable, but saying that success against KU is all that matters is asinine.
Thing is, we've got a helluva steady measuring stick right up the road. Asking to beat KU 1/3 of the time is actually a shorthand way of saying you're a pretty damn good program. It's not like Iowa State wanting to to beat Iowa or something. (Although saying "nothing else matters" is a bit much.)
Or at least that's the way I see it. :dunno:
P.S. Nice fishin' Dax.
It was nice fishin' by Dax, except that his "outlandish" expectations are not that far removed from what we just did. I hate that a lot of our fanbase thinks that kind of success isn't sustainable here, and shouldn't be expected.
As far as beating KU, if we went 22-10 every year with an 11-7 Big 12 record, made the NCAAs and lost twice to KU most years, I'd be good with that.
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Sorry, tying our expectations solely to our success or failure against KU is dumb. Losing 20 straight at home, or anything of the sort is unacceptable, but saying that success against KU is all that matters is asinine.
Thing is, we've got a helluva steady measuring stick right up the road. Asking to beat KU 1/3 of the time is actually a shorthand way of saying you're a pretty damn good program. It's not like Iowa State wanting to to beat Iowa or something. (Although saying "nothing else matters" is a bit much.)
Or at least that's the way I see it. :dunno:
P.S. Nice fishin' Dax.
It was nice fishin' by Dax, except that his "outlandish" expectations are not that far removed from what we just did. I hate that a lot of our fanbase thinks that kind of success isn't sustainable here, and shouldn't be expected.
He's trying to say Frank barely achieved the minimum so we really didn't lose anything. pure fishing.
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Fishin? Outlandish?
Not really . . . we should expect exactly what Frank did every year, and much more in most.
Really no excuse for K-State not to be Top 4 or 5 EVERY year in the Big 12, top 3 most years.
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Fishin? Outlandish?
Not really . . . we should expect exactly what Frank did every year, and much more in most.
Really no excuse for K-State not to be Top 4 or 5 EVERY year in the Big 12, top 3 most years.
Hmm... didn't think you believed your original post, but yes. Agreed.
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Frank Martin's last 2 recruiting classes at K-State:
Juevol Myles-FRANKED
Oh man, first Franked player returns to the OOD (Dec 31st)...
USD Men's Basketball ?@CoyotesMBB
Back in the United States after a 109-75 win over the University of Manitoba today. Six guys in double figures led by Juevol Myles with 30.
Of course, without Frank here, it loses a bit of its luster.
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Frank Martin's last 2 recruiting classes at K-State:
Juevol Myles-FRANKED
Oh man, first Franked player returns to the OOD (Dec 31st)...
USD Men's Basketball ?@CoyotesMBB
Back in the United States after a 109-75 win over the University of Manitoba today. Six guys in double figures led by Juevol Myles with 30.
Of course, without Frank here, it loses a bit of its luster.
:ohno:
Please tell me Nick Russell's new team isn't going to come and humiliate us, as well.
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bumpers
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oh man. the days when i still gave a eff.
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bumpers
New nickname ideas for Chings, given his high level thread bumping skill:
Bumpster Fire
Dr. Bumpinstein
Speed Bump
Farm Bumper
Bumpback of Anderson Hall
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Bumpback Mountain?
Engelbert Bumperback
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Bumplegraphskin
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Lovely Lady Bumps
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Bumplegraphskin
This is genius.
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The Bumpire.
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Passive-aggressive Chings is good message boarding.