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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: steve dave on May 25, 2012, 07:35:01 AM
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What on earth happened? They had just lost to TTech. We were ranked 10. We were at home for goodness sakes. We were out gained 690-240.
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SchemedoctorSlothfense has no prayer against a well game planned bunch of superior athletes.
The ate slothfense alive for 3/4's of the game.
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fluke
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We even won the TO margin 2-1. So freakish.
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Look at Slothfense's total output against Texas:
8 First Downs
121 yards of Total Offense
2.2 years per play
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Look at Slothfense's total output against Texas:
8 First Downs
121 yards of Total Offense
2.2 years per play
yeah, but we won. we won on Doerr's golden foot.
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But this is what youngsters don't get.
This is Snyder/Dimel/Miller Part II. Part I was no different, they pretty much completely meltdown against any well coached defense that has speed and athletes.
2.2 yards per rush in the Cotton Bowl, 260 yards of Total Offense.
Anemic.
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But this is what youngsters don't get.
This is Snyder/Dimel/Miller Part II. Part I was no different, they pretty much completely meltdown against any well coached defense that has speed and athletes.
2.2 yards per rush in the Cotton Bowl, 260 yards of Total Offense.
Anemic.
almost every team does, dax.
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i'd say they just quit in the 2nd half. but who knows.
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i'd say they just quit in the 2nd half. but who knows.
yeah, they did. but that seems like such an outlier from the rest of the season.
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But this is what youngsters don't get.
This is Snyder/Dimel/Miller Part II. Part I was no different, they pretty much completely meltdown against any well coached defense that has speed and athletes.
2.2 yards per rush in the Cotton Bowl, 260 yards of Total Offense.
Anemic.
almost every team does that lacks overall offensive weapons and diversity clams
FYP
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So there is a correlation between what our offense does and how well coached, fast, and talented the defense is?
Honestly, we were in striking distance for a lot of the Arkansas game. I think the difference between our offense now and some of our best is a deep threat. Doesn't even have to be a great one (Taco Wallace/James Terry), just able to take advantage of defenses playing up.
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I think that has more to do with our QB
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But this is what youngsters don't get.
This is Snyder/Dimel/Miller Part II. Part I was no different, they pretty much completely meltdown against any well coached defense that has speed and athletes.
2.2 yards per rush in the Cotton Bowl, 260 yards of Total Offense.
Anemic.
almost every team does that lacks overall offensive weapons and diversity clams
FYP
thanks for the football 101
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That game was such a huge KITN. On a related note though, I never really found out because I was at the game, but did the scuffle between the teams right before the game make the TV broadcast? I thought it looked very elite at the time and it looked like the ABC Skycam or whatever was right above it so I thought that it might look big-timey on TV.
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That game was such a huge KITN. On a related note though, I never really found out because I was at the game, but did the scuffle between the teams right before the game make the TV broadcast? I thought it looked very elite at the time and it looked like the ABC Skycam or whatever was right above it so I thought that it might look big-timey on TV.
Not live or anything but they showed it a few times, iirc
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We showed we could score, we had the lead at one point right? 24-21 or 21-17? we just completely crapped down our pants after that.
OSU game was a perfect example of what our offense is capable of, if we just get our heads together.
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Dax,
Most offenses have difficulties against defenses with superior speed and athletes. go figure?
Either you are highly skilled in an area that can exploit a defense with superior speed and athleticism or they will own you. OU and Texas had some holes in their coverage...but only the more skilled passing offenses took advantage (see Tech).
KSU, in particular, had difficulty with the pass rushers for OU. Their defensive ends ate us alive. Too slow footed along the offensive line last year and the OU, Texas, and Arkansas games were a good demonstration of that. Mizzou had much of their way with our offensive line but they had enough holes elsewhere and were not good enough on offense last year to overcome mistakes.
Defensively...if you can't get a pass rush and are not really athletic in the secondary = bad news.
That and OU was awfully focused in that game. They made some plays offensively they didn't make the remainder of the year. That and the Texas game were easily their best performances offensively. They had no rythm and chemistry offensively after Broyles went down.
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We got intimidated. Also, their defensive line destroyed our O-Line, and our secondary was awful, and our D-Line was worse than the secondary.
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biggest key for Snyder's offense is to have some mobility along the offensive line. If he has that then his offenses are extremely difficult to stop the way we utilize our TE as an extra blocker and a QB as an extra runner.
Finney held his own in that OU game but Hanson, Freeze, and Aufner were overmatched. That is where the battle was won.
We'll field much better athletes at those positions this year...especially if Whitehair slides inside to guard and Foketi mans that RT position. Foketi and Whitehair are both well above average athletes for BCS conference caliber offensive lineman. Lucas is a superior athlete over Hanson and is just so damned long. If he gets beat around the edge his length on a one-step-punch can still knock some swift ends off their path to the backside shoulder of the passer.
Not worried one iota about the offense this year. It's the defense that is more of a concern.
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Dax,
Most offenses have difficulties against defenses with superior speed and athletes. go figure?
Either you are highly skilled in an area that can exploit a defense with superior speed and athleticism or they will own you. OU and Texas had some holes in their coverage...but only the more skilled passing offenses took advantage (see Tech).
KSU, in particular, had difficulty with the pass rushers for OU. Their defensive ends ate us alive. Too slow footed along the offensive line last year and the OU, Texas, and Arkansas games were a good demonstration of that. Mizzou had much of their way with our offensive line but they had enough holes elsewhere and were not good enough on offense last year to overcome mistakes.
Defensively...if you can't get a pass rush and are not really athletic in the secondary = bad news.
That and OU was awfully focused in that game. They made some plays offensively they didn't make the remainder of the year. That and the Texas game were easily their best performances offensively. They had no rythm and chemistry offensively after Broyles went down.
Are you agreeing with or arguing against Dax? It seems you're agreeing with Dax, only providing more detail. However, the smart ass comment "Most offenses have difficulties against defenses with superior speed and athletes. go figure?" makes me think you are arguing with him.
Edit: Nevermind, you posted your 2nd post and completed your thought while I was typing this. Makes sense now.
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Stools:Snyder::KSU:Texas
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Stools:Snyder::KSU:Texas
haha, I know you just misspelled this but it's better than you intended imo. he's old.
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Dax,
Most offenses have difficulties against defenses with superior speed and athletes. go figure?
Either you are highly skilled in an area that can exploit a defense with superior speed and athleticism or they will own you. OU and Texas had some holes in their coverage...but only the more skilled passing offenses took advantage (see Tech).
KSU, in particular, had difficulty with the pass rushers for OU. Their defensive ends ate us alive. Too slow footed along the offensive line last year and the OU, Texas, and Arkansas games were a good demonstration of that. Mizzou had much of their way with our offensive line but they had enough holes elsewhere and were not good enough on offense last year to overcome mistakes.
Defensively...if you can't get a pass rush and are not really athletic in the secondary = bad news.
That and OU was awfully focused in that game. They made some plays offensively they didn't make the remainder of the year. That and the Texas game were easily their best performances offensively. They had no rythm and chemistry offensively after Broyles went down.
Are you agreeing with or arguing against Dax? It seems you're agreeing with Dax, only providing more detail. However, the smart ass comment "Most offenses have difficulties against defenses with superior speed and athletes. go figure?" makes me think you are arguing with him.
I agree with him for the most part. It was the comment that Snyder always has trouble with Oklahoma or something similar. Well, yes, most offenses do have difficulty with teams that possess superior speed and athleticism on defense. It's not an enlightenment.
It is sort of like those who rip on Snyder's record vs. top 20 teams. Well, if you look at it history wise most top 10 programs have average records against top 10 teams. So, go figure on that one as well.
The only thing I worry about this coming year with the offense is whether the offensive line will be tenacious enough. Hanson and Aufner, despite their shortcomings as pass blockers, worked their butts off in the run game. Freeze, while a below average athlete, worked and made few mistakes. We have better athletes on the offensive line this year but are they really tough guys willing to mix it up in the run game? There is no doubt we should get better pass protection. The biggest issue for us last year is that we simply couldn't protect the quarterback.
To illustrate just how dreadful we were at pass protection we had 200 fewer pass attempts than Iowa State last season but gave up 16 more sacks. Part of that could be attributed to Klein being one of the few QBs who would eat the ball rather than force things...but very few. We were horrendous giving the QB any time. Knock off about 15 sacks in 100 more passing attempts this year and we'll move the ball that much better.
Team attempts sacks attempts/sack
Texas A&M 537 9 59.67
Oklahoma 583 11 53.00
Oklahoma State 596 12 49.67
Texas Tech 600 19 31.58
Missouri 383 18 21.28
Iowa State 484 27 17.93
Baylor 424 29 14.62
Texas 358 28 12.79
Kansas 301 31 9.71
Kansas State 290 43 6.74
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Thanks for agreeing with me Hatter.
We get so caught up with SchemeDoctor that we forget how badly Snyder-Dimel-Miller get can get clownsuited at times.
Really speaks to the need to recruit much better doesn't it?
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Thanks for agreeing with me Hatter.
We get so caught up with SchemeDoctor that we forget how badly Snyder-Dimel-Miller get can get clownsuited at times.
Really speaks to the need to recruit much better doesn't it?
no
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We were in that game up until a few minutes before halftime. We missed a kick and then CK fumbled the ball deep in our territory. Without that we go into halftime with the lead (I think?) and probably win.
Remember OSU in 2010?
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and probably win.
we lost by close to 90 points :dubious:
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and probably win.
we lost by close to 90 points :dubious:
Look at Bill's record when leading at halftime. :dubious:
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and probably win.
we lost by close to 90 points :dubious:
Look at Bill's record when leading at halftime. :dubious:
3rd
10:22 OU Broyles,Ryan 29 yd pass from Jones,Landry (Hunnicutt,Mike kick)
5 plays, 63 yards, TOP 1:18 30 - 17
04:26 OU Reynolds,Jaz 8 yd pass from Jones,Landry (Hunnicutt,Mike kick)
6 plays, 68 yards, TOP 2:40 37 - 17
01:27 OU Finch,Roy 31 yd run (Hunnicutt,Mike kick)
4 plays, 62 yards, TOP 0:50 44 - 17
4th
14:22 OU Ratterree,T. 12 yd pass from Jones,Landry (Hunnicutt,Mike kick)
3 plays, 67 yards, TOP 0:48 51 - 17
11:03 OU Millard,Trey 61 yd run (Hunnicutt,Mike kick)
3 plays, 72 yards, TOP 1:27 58 - 17
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Ks 1-10 at Ks20 KANSAS STATE drive start at 15:00.
Ks 1-10 at Ks20 Lockett, Tyler rush for 7 yards to the KS27, out-of-bounds.
Ks 2-3 at Ks27 Klein, Collin rush for no gain to the KS27 (Lewis,Ronnell).
Ks 3-3 at Ks27 PENALTY OU substitution infraction 5 yards to the KS32, 1ST DOWN KS.
Ks 1-10 at Ks32 Hubert, John rush for no gain to the KS32 (Lewis,Ronnell).
Ks 2-10 at Ks32 Klein, Collin pass complete to Harper, Chris for 6 yards to the KS38.
Ks 3-4 at Ks38 Klein, Collin rush for loss of 4 yards to the KS34 (Alexander,Fran).
Ks 4-8 at Ks34 Doerr, Ryan punt 29 yards to the OU37, fair catch by Broyles,Ryan.
Drive: 5 plays, 14 yards, TOP 03:20
Ks 1-10 at Ks13 KANSAS STATE drive start at 10:22.
Ks 1-10 at Ks13 Hubert, John rush for 6 yards to the KS19 (Lewis,Travis).
Ks 2-4 at Ks19 Klein, Collin rush for 9 yards to the KS28, 1ST DOWN KS (Jefferson,Tony).
Ks 1-10 at Ks28 Klein, Collin sacked for loss of 7 yards to the KS21 (Nelson,Corey).
Ks 2-17 at Ks21 Klein, Collin rush for 2 yards to the KS23 (Nelson,Corey).
Ks 3-15 at Ks23 Klein, Collin rush for 3 yards to the KS26, out-of-bounds (Nelson,Corey).
Ks 4-12 at Ks26 Doerr, Ryan punt 42 yards to the OU32, fair catch by Broyles,Ryan.
Drive: 5 plays, 13 yards, TOP 03:16
Ks 1-10 at Ks20 KANSAS STATE drive start at 04:26.
Ks 1-10 at Ks20 Klein, Collin sacked for loss of 10 yards to the KS10 (Lewis,Ronnell).
Ks 2-20 at Ks10 Klein, Collin pass complete to Tannahill, T. for no gain to the KS10 (Lewis,Travis).
Ks 3-20 at Ks10 PENALTY KS false start (Aufner, Clyde) 5 yards to the KS5.
Ks 3-25 at Ks05 Klein, Collin rush for 15 yards to the KS20, out-of-bounds.
Ks 4-10 at Ks20 Doerr, Ryan punt 42 yards to the OU38, fair catch by Broyles,Ryan.
Drive: 3 plays, 0 yards, TOP 02:09
Ks 1-10 at Ks31 KANSAS STATE drive start at 01:27.
Ks 1-10 at Ks31 Klein, Collin pass incomplete to Thompson, T..
Ks 2-10 at Ks31 Klein, Collin pass complete to Thompson, T. for 11 yards to the KS42, 1ST DOWN KS (Colvin,Aaron).
Ks 1-10 at Ks42 Klein, Collin pass incomplete to Thompson, T..
Ks 2-10 at Ks42 Klein, Collin pass incomplete to Thompson, T..
Ks 3-10 at Ks42 Klein, Collin sacked for loss of 10 yards to the KS32 (Jefferson,Tony).
Ks 4-20 at Ks32 Doerr, Ryan punt 35 yards to the OU33, fair catch by Broyles,Ryan.
Drive: 5 plays, 1 yards, TOP 01:17
Ks 1-10 at Ks36 KANSAS STATE drive start at 14:22.
Ks 1-10 at Ks36 Klein, Collin sacked for loss of 2 yards to the KS34 (Wort,Tom).
Ks 2-12 at Ks34 Klein, Collin sacked for loss of 2 yards to the KS32 (Nelson,Corey).
Ks 3-14 at Ks32 Klein, Collin sacked for loss of 8 yards to the KS24 (King,David).
Ks 4-22 at Ks24 Doerr, Ryan punt 50 yards to the OU26, Broyles,Ryan return 2 yards to the OU28.
Drive: 3 plays, minus 12 yards, TOP 01:52
Ks 1-10 at Ks35 KANSAS STATE drive start at 11:03.
Ks 1-10 at Ks35 Hubert, John rush for no gain to the KS35 (Wort,Tom).
Ks 2-10 at Ks35 Klein, Collin pass complete to Tannahill, T. for 9 yards to the KS44 (Proctor,Sam).
Ks 3-1 at Ks44 Klein, Collin rush for 2 yards to the KS46, 1ST DOWN KS (Walker,Casey).
Ks 1-10 at Ks46 Klein, Collin pass incomplete to Tannahill, T. (Walker,Casey).
Ks 2-10 at Ks46 Hubert, John rush for 1 yard to the KS47 (Washington,R.J.).
Ks 3-9 at Ks47 Klein, Collin pass incomplete to Thompson, T..
Ks 4-9 at Ks47 Doerr, Ryan punt 40 yards to the OU13, downed.
Drive: 6 plays, 12 yards, TOP 02:39
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Hey dax, you live in a fantasy world if you think our small timey school is ever going field a team filled with elite athletes. Just FYI.
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lol @ 4 consecutive passes to Tramaine Thompson followed by 4 consecutive sacks.
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Oklahoma played their best game of the year on the same day we played our worst game of the year, simple as that. Texas Tech upsetting them the week before really mumped us. Teams like OU don't lose back to back games very often.
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What on earth happened? They had just lost to TTech. We were ranked 10. We were at home for goodness sakes. We were out gained 690-240.
we were pretty much out gained in every game last year though. it was all part of the plan.
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Teams like OU don't lose back to back games very often.
I love this talking point.
Teams like OU don't lose very often, period.
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dax,
sure, it always helps to recruit better. The problem on the offensive line is that it's typically a unit where you need veteran players. Two of the starters were Prince commits and awful athletes (Freeze and Aufner). Hanson had to play because we lost Foketi and Finney was a first year starter.
You can find quality offensive line anywhere. Oversized and slower TEs, big DEs who may not possess the instincts for defense, etc. It is one of the hardest positions to recruit as highly rated kids bomb all of the time. OU's starting left tackle this year was a high school quarterback who went the juco route without a D-1 offer. He played TE there and moved to DE shortly after he got to OU.
The nice thing about this coming season is that we finally have about 7 or 8 guys that are true BCS caliber offensive lineman that will be available to play. It's just a better situation with better athletes in 2012.
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dax,
sure, it always helps to recruit better. The problem on the offensive line is that it's typically a unit where you need veteran players. Two of the starters were Prince commits and awful athletes (Freeze and Aufner). Hanson had to play because we lost Foketi and Finney was a first year starter.
You can find quality offensive line anywhere. Oversized and slower TEs, big DEs who may not possess the instincts for defense, etc. It is one of the hardest positions to recruit as highly rated kids bomb all of the time. OU's starting left tackle this year was a high school quarterback who went the juco route without a D-1 offer. He played TE there and moved to DE shortly after he got to OU.
The nice thing about this coming season is that we finally have about 7 or 8 guys that are true BCS caliber offensive lineman that will be available to play. It's just a better situation with better athletes in 2012.
So we're going to get more than 52 yards of total offense in the 2nd half against OU?
Outstanding.
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What on earth happened? They had just lost to TTech. We were ranked 10. We were at home for goodness sakes. We were out gained 690-240.
we were pretty much out gained in every game last year though. it was all part of the plan.
but not by 450 yards. that's a lot.
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Confession: This was the only game I went to last year and I didn't come back in after halftime :(
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Remember in 2009 when we had that moral victory vs OU?
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OU played what was easily their best half of football last year in the second half. We lost momentum going into halftime, came out flat, and played what was easily our worst half of football last year.
The Ark game was just missed opportunities. We were close most of the game, and just couldn't come up with plays to get it done. Their D-line showed how unathletic our O-line was. I think Klein made a few decisions to throw passes when it looked like he could have ran for the first down, namely the 3rd down right before Ark's punt return for a TD.
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OU played what was easily their best half of football last year in the second half. We lost momentum going into halftime, came out flat, and played what was easily our worst half of football last year.
The Ark game was just missed opportunities. We were close most of the game, and just couldn't come up with plays to get it done. Their D-line showed how unathletic our O-line was. I think Klein made a few decisions to throw passes when it looked like he could have ran for the first down, namely the 3rd down right before Ark's punt return for a TD.
we have a smaller margin for error against teams like OU.
What killed KSU against Arkansas (other than the OL) was the dropped passes and mistakes. Penalties yards and a sack-fumble led to their first FG. The punt return TD doesn't happen often to KSU. But those dropped passes were killer.
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Teams like OU don't lose back to back games very often.
I love this talking point.
Teams like OU don't lose very often, period.
True. But I just looked it up and the last time Oklahoma lost consecutive games was in 2003.
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The arky punt return should have been called back due to a blatent no call block in the back at the 50 yard line.
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Didn't The Chamber get injured early in the second half? You got a QB who already can't throw, add in an injury that makes his throwing worse, and a coaching staff who keeps throwing to try and win the game and you get a massacre. They could have taken the air out of the ball, and I think they should have. Oh well.
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What also hurt K-State against Arkansas was the usual SchemeDoctor month to prepare way over thought game plan.
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What also hurt K-State against Arkansas was the usual SchemeDoctor month to prepare way over thought game plan.
sometimes you just grasp at straws and this is one of those moments. how did he overthink the game plan. enlighten us.
the kids dropped passes and made a few errors. it wasn't the game plan.
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Didn't The Chamber get injured early in the second half? You got a QB who already can't throw, add in an injury that makes his throwing worse, and a coaching staff who keeps throwing to try and win the game and you get a massacre. They could have taken the air out of the ball, and I think they should have. Oh well.
The Chamber was injured since pretty much the second play of the season. Thats the way he likes it though
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10 win season though :emawkid: sure could get use to those again. And I'll take one embarrassing blowout per season if it means double digit wins.
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I don't think there is a clearly defined correlation between losing a game by 88 points and winning 10+ overall. I'm not through all the data yet though.
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What happened? Those bad person OU players purposely stepped on Klein's chest and injured him.
Refs missed it. I've never seen such blatant cheating in my life. Stoops and co. would vacate the win if they had an ounce of moral integrity (they don't).
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I don't think there is a clearly defined correlation between losing a game by 88 points and winning 10+ overall. I'm not through all the data yet though.
There is when you factor in whether or not you led at halftime of the blowout and if the team that blew you out lost the week prior. Then it's hella strong. And if you would rather lose games pretty instead of going to Cotton Bowls, the door is right over there and you can kindly get the eff out
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We would have kicked their ass by 30 if we would have gotten Gameday, I am sure of it.