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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: Powercat Posse on February 11, 2012, 03:22:11 PM
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That stat line is just hilariously bad. Partly because of the officiating and partly because we sucked in the 2nd half
Even before we started fouling at the end of the game, Texas had a 16-0 advantage in the 2nd half on FTA
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We threw the ball away way too much.
They were calling it super close under their goal, not at all under ours.
I actually thought that crew did a pretty good job relative to the other asshats they've run at us, but they were still awful
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Officials call a lot of fouls on us because we foul a lot.
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Had anyone attacked the basket other than Angel, maybe we would have got to the line.
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Officials call a lot of fouls on us because we foul a lot.
So true, especially the bigs.
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Few other things of note --
1) Texas was 11-16 in the 2nd half from the field. Yes officials needed to swallow their whistles but we helped a lot with lackluster D
2) The run started when Frank brought in NINO "i have no business playing right now" Williams. Texas got a basket, Nino jacks up a 3 with 30 secs on the shot clock. That led to a transistion bucket. Texas was 2 of their last 20 before those 2 baskets. Texas got some life and things went South from there
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Had anyone attacked the basket other than Angel, maybe we would have got to the line.
Jamar and Diaz were getting hammered in the second half, but yes agree
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Officials call a lot of fouls on us because we foul a lot.
Anyone that attempts to justify this stat deserves to be labeled a rough ridin' moron for the rest of their lives. You can say its not why we lost, you can say we should have overcome it, but attempts at justifying 26-0 is unbelievably stupid.
Nicname stop trying so hard.
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Officials call a lot of fouls on us because we foul a lot.
Anyone that attempts to justify this stat deserves to be labeled a rough ridin' moron for the rest of their lives. You can say its not why we lost, you can say we should have overcome it, but attempts at justifying 26-0 is unbelievably stupid.
Nicname stop trying so hard.
I'm not justifying any stat. When you foul all game long and don't force opponents to foul you are going to get your ass kicked and look like a bunch of jackasses in the process. Who cares if the refs made some bad calls? I didn't notice many. I noticed the FT disparity, but I also noticed our guys getting worked over and over again.
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The way you play offense is impacted by having a lot of players in foul trouble.
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The way you play offense is impacted by having a lot of players in foul trouble.
And defense.
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Officials call a lot of fouls on us because we foul a lot.
Anyone that attempts to justify this stat deserves to be labeled a rough ridin' moron for the rest of their lives. You can say its not why we lost, you can say we should have overcome it, but attempts at justifying 26-0 is unbelievably stupid.
Nicname stop trying so hard.
LOL, who got fouled in the act of shooting that didn't get called? Jesus whata Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).
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I noticed offensive possessions with no movement. Rodney was standing in the corner waiting for . . . hell, I don't know. When did he ever take it into the lane in the second half?
We ran absolutely no offense the second half. Settled for bad shots from the start.
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Officials call a lot of fouls on us because we foul a lot.
Anyone that attempts to justify this stat deserves to be labeled a rough ridin' moron for the rest of their lives. You can say its not why we lost, you can say we should have overcome it, but attempts at justifying 26-0 is unbelievably stupid.
Nicname stop trying so hard.
I'm not justifying any stat. When you foul all game long and don't force opponents to foul you are going to get your ass kicked and look like a bunch of jackasses in the process. Who cares if the refs made some bad calls? I didn't notice many. I noticed the FT disparity, but I also noticed our guys getting worked over and over again.
First of all we took plenty of shots from the paint, try to stop being an idiot. Secondly you need to stop acting like UT got a ton of calls from attacking the rim aggressively. We got called for hand checks, illegal screens, over the back, loose ball fouls, etc. Did UT not hand check, push, slap, go over the back, set illegal screens, bump cutters?
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Officials call a lot of fouls on us because we foul a lot.
Texas is just as physical as we are.
2nd half fouls: KSU 19, UT 6
2 or 3 of K-State's fouls at the end of the 2nd half were an attempt to get the clock stopped. But to never even reach the 1+1 in a game as physcial as this is insane!
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The way you play offense is impacted by having a lot of players in foul trouble.
chicken/ egg
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Jamar got whacked in the head by Chapman when he drove to the bucket & made the shot & no &1 was given.
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Jamar got whacked in the head by Chapman when he drove to the bucket & made the shot & no &1 was given.
Angel's drive under 3 minutes was a pinball demonstration and no fucks were given.
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Officials call a lot of fouls on us because we foul a lot.
Anyone that attempts to justify this stat deserves to be labeled a rough ridin' moron for the rest of their lives. You can say its not why we lost, you can say we should have overcome it, but attempts at justifying 26-0 is unbelievably stupid.
Nicname stop trying so hard.
You're wrong, you should stop. We hacked, they had six fouls, are you going to argue about 2 or 3 more?
I'm not justifying any stat. When you foul all game long and don't force opponents to foul you are going to get your ass kicked and look like a bunch of jackasses in the process. Who cares if the refs made some bad calls? I didn't notice many. I noticed the FT disparity, but I also noticed our guys getting worked over and over again.
First of all we took plenty of shots from the paint, try to stop being an idiot. Secondly you need to stop acting like UT got a ton of calls from attacking the rim aggressively. We got called for hand checks, illegal screens, over the back, loose ball fouls, etc. Did UT not hand check, push, slap, go over the back, set illegal screens, bump cutters?
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Officials call a lot of fouls on us because we foul a lot.
Anyone that attempts to justify this stat deserves to be labeled a rough ridin' moron for the rest of their lives. You can say its not why we lost, you can say we should have overcome it, but attempts at justifying 26-0 is unbelievably stupid.
Nicname stop trying so hard.
LOL, who got fouled in the act of shooting that didn't get called? Jesus whata Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).
None, not one single player got slapped or bumped while attempting a shot. UT did not hand check, push, bump a cutter, go over the back, discard a defender with their off hand, set an illegal screen, slap an ARM, hold someone etc at least 7 times in the second half.
There's a reason why none of us have ever seen a 26-0 FT disparity for a half at any level of basketball.
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We basically got called for a foul every time UT missed a layup, and half the time they made one.
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I wonder if Jason King will write an article?
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Officials call a lot of fouls on us because we foul a lot.
Anyone that attempts to justify this stat deserves to be labeled a rough ridin' moron for the rest of their lives. You can say its not why we lost, you can say we should have overcome it, but attempts at justifying 26-0 is unbelievably stupid.
Nicname stop trying so hard.
LOL, who got fouled in the act of shooting that didn't get called? Jesus whata respect.
None, not one single player got slapped or bumped while attempting a shot. UT did not hand check, push, bump a cutter, go over the back, discard a defender with their off hand, set an illegal screen, slap an ARM, hold someone etc at least 7 times in the second half.
There's a reason why none of us have ever seen a 26-0 FT disparity for a half at any level of basketball.
The game was called as fairly as the rest of our games, Frank was terrible, next.
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The first half they called it tight............. but called it tight both ways.
1st half fouls = Ksu 14 Texas 10
1st half FTs = Ksu 8/12 Texas 13/20
Texas committed 10 fouls in the first 13 minutes. The score was 23-23 at that point. Texas quit playing so aggressive and it hurt them. We went on a 17-4 run by hitting some jumpshots and Texas was still halving issues shooting the ball (2-20 to end the half)
2nd half, they were still calling it tight on us, and they let Texas play a normal game. I dont think Texas was just hammering us, but they definately let them play more than they did in the first half.
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Officials call a lot of fouls on us because we foul a lot.
Anyone that attempts to justify this stat deserves to be labeled a rough ridin' moron for the rest of their lives. You can say its not why we lost, you can say we should have overcome it, but attempts at justifying 26-0 is unbelievably stupid.
Nicname stop trying so hard.
I'm not justifying any stat. When you foul all game long and don't force opponents to foul you are going to get your ass kicked and look like a bunch of jackasses in the process. Who cares if the refs made some bad calls? I didn't notice many. I noticed the FT disparity, but I also noticed our guys getting worked over and over again.
First of all we took plenty of shots from the paint, try to stop being an idiot.
MIR namecalling :rolleyes:
Secondly you need to stop acting like UT got a ton of calls from attacking the rim aggressively. We got called for hand checks, illegal screens, over the back, loose ball fouls, etc.
Trying to remember when I said that UT got all of their FT's from attacking the rim? :dunno: don't think it happened. I know what we got fouls called on us for, namely dumbassery.
Did UT not hand check, push, slap, go over the back, set illegal screens, bump cutters?
Obviously not as much as us, and we never forced them to foul much with our crappy offense either. You know, dribbling the ball forever while one guy runs of 30 screens only to catch the ball out of position and then try it again until there is 7 second left on the shot clock, then force up a crappy jumper or have Angel (bright spot) drive to the rim.
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Officials call a lot of fouls on us because we foul a lot.
Anyone that attempts to justify this stat deserves to be labeled a rough ridin' moron for the rest of their lives. You can say its not why we lost, you can say we should have overcome it, but attempts at justifying 26-0 is unbelievably stupid.
Nicname stop trying so hard.
LOL, who got fouled in the act of shooting that didn't get called? Jesus whata respect.
None, not one single player got slapped or bumped while attempting a shot. UT did not hand check, push, bump a cutter, go over the back, discard a defender with their off hand, set an illegal screen, slap an ARM, hold someone etc at least 7 times in the second half.
There's a reason why none of us have ever seen a 26-0 FT disparity for a half at any level of basketball.
The game was called as fairly as the rest of our games, Frank was terrible, next.
Yep, just as fair. I'm sure we'll see a 26-0 again soon.
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This game wasn't lost on officiating. It was lost because of stupid basketball and a better team that played with some pride and kicked our effing asses in the second half while we stood around with our dicks in our hands.
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This game wasn't lost on officiating. It was lost because of stupid basketball and a better team that played with some pride and kicked our effing asses in the second half while we stood around with our dicks in our hands.
:thumbs:
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This game wasn't lost on officiating. It was lost because of stupid basketball and a better team that played with some pride and kicked our effing asses in the second half while we stood around with our dicks in our hands.
:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbsup:
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I called you a moron, idiot, and dumbass because you're being one. Is the issue some of you don't watch enough basketball to know just how absurd 26-0 is?
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The first half they called it tight............. but called it tight both ways.
1st half fouls = Ksu 14 Texas 10
1st half FTs = Ksu 8/12 Texas 13/20
Texas committed 10 fouls in the first 13 minutes. The score was 23-23 at that point. Texas quit playing so aggressive and it hurt them. We went on a 17-4 run by hitting some jumpshots and Texas was still halving issues shooting the ball (2-20 to end the half)
2nd half, they were still calling it tight on us, and they let Texas play a normal game. I dont think Texas was just hammering us, but they definately let them play more than they did in the first half.
This needs factchecked a little, we went on our run with their starters on the bench with foul trouble. In the second half Texas knew they had to stop fouling to win, we continued to hack because we don't STOP THE DAMN BALL.
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oh dear lord
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I like how it was our "bad offense" that led to no calls.
UT's offense was even worse, they got bailed out by the officials over and over again. What a rough ridin' joke
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This game wasn't lost on officiating.
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Even better = Last 27 minutes of the game ---------------------
Texas 32 FT attempts
Ksu 0 FT attempts
(Fouls Ksu 22 UT 6)
Our last FT attempt was by Gruds at 7:01 mark of 1st half. First 13 minutes, we shot 12 FTs when they were calling it tight both ways
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The first half they called it tight............. but called it tight both ways.
1st half fouls = Ksu 14 Texas 10
1st half FTs = Ksu 8/12 Texas 13/20
Texas committed 10 fouls in the first 13 minutes. The score was 23-23 at that point. Texas quit playing so aggressive and it hurt them. We went on a 17-4 run by hitting some jumpshots and Texas was still halving issues shooting the ball (2-20 to end the half)
2nd half, they were still calling it tight on us, and they let Texas play a normal game. I dont think Texas was just hammering us, but they definately let them play more than they did in the first half.
This needs factchecked a little, we went on our run with their starters on the bench with foul trouble. In the second half Texas knew they had to stop fouling to win, we continued to hack because we don't STOP THE DAMN BALL.
flip of that is that Texas knew whenever the got near the lane they were look at shot or an +1. So it would be utterly absurd to do anything but dribble drive.
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I'll tell you what dude. I'm going to go back and rewatch the entire game and noting each possession and come back with a full report. Get ready taowel handy because you are going to need it to wipe all that egg off of your face.
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Don't waste your time, no one cares.
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We played poorly in the 2nd half, but its absurd to not think at least some of that was due to foul trouble, UT continually getting bailed out with FTs, and the ridiculous discrepency in FTAs. I'm not even saying we should've won, but that should've been a 1-2 possession game in the last minute without what was clearly a ridiculously one sided game. I usually stay away from complaining about officials, and many of the points on our offensive issues are valid, but man...
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I'll tell you what dude. I'm going to go back and rewatch the entire game and noting each possession and come back with a full report. Get ready taowel handy because you are going to need it to wipe all that egg off of your face.
please include in your rewatch which came first, the fouls or the sluggish defense. The fouls or UT's explosive offense. I think that will be the determining factor. Chicken/egg.
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it was nice of frank to just sit there and take it (again).
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Currie tweeted about it and has since been deleted.
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NO........ we did not go on our run with all of our starters on the bench
Tied at 23.
7:01 Gruds 2 FTs
5:30 Gruds makes jumper
5:01 Diaz makes jumper
3:59 Gruds makes jumper
2:16 Sprads hits 3 pt shot
1:13 Gruds hits 3 pt shot
0:34 Sprads hits 3 pt shot
2 starters accounted for 15 of those 17 pts.
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it was nice of frank to just sit there and take it (again).
He was on the officials pretty hard. After a possession of Angel getting bumped on a layup and Jamar and Diaz getting slapped on put backs Frank did his jump, stomp & yell. I don't think there was ever a point that getting a T would have been helpful. That felt like a building avalanche that wasn't going to be stopped.
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It's the road. We got homered. When you don't have an elite player or an elite reputation this crap happens. Big deal.
We lost this game in the first 8 minutes of the second half when UT came out and punched us in the mouth, hit a flurry of shots, and we had no response.
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I think having Gip start the half with the three fouls was a bad move.
Don't really care about yelling at refs.
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It does not help that Rodney McGruder is a complete coward, but we got worked. Wabash just stfu, we got completely worked by the refs.
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I think having Gip start the half with the three fouls was a bad move.
Completely agree. Mentioned this during the game.
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NO........ we did not go on our run with all of our starters on the bench
Tied at 23.
7:01 Gruds 2 FTs
5:30 Gruds makes jumper
5:01 Diaz makes jumper
3:59 Gruds makes jumper
2:16 Sprads hits 3 pt shot
1:13 Gruds hits 3 pt shot
0:34 Sprads hits 3 pt shot
2 starters accounted for 15 of those 17 pts.
Their starters reeee-tard
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Currie tweeted about it and has since been deleted.
What did he say?
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It's the road. We got homered. When you don't have an elite player or an elite reputation this crap happens. Big deal.
We lost this game in the first 8 minutes of the second half when UT came out and punched us in the mouth, hit a flurry of shots, and we had no response.
Why do you keep posting different versions of the same thing? No one stated we lost simply because of 26-0, it could have been 26-12 and we still would/could have lost. This thread is simply about the absurdity of 26-0 and about dumbasses acting like its no big deal.
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It's the road. We got homered. When you don't have an elite player or an elite reputation this crap happens. Big deal.
We lost this game in the first 8 minutes of the second half when UT came out and punched us in the mouth, hit a flurry of shots, and we had no response.
Why do you keep posting different versions of the same thing? No one stated we lost simply because of 26-0, it could have been 26-12 and we still would/could have lost. This thread is simply about the absurdity of 26-0 and about dumbasses acting like its no big deal.
Not absurd, and not a big deal. :facepalm:
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It's the road. We got homered. When you don't have an elite player or an elite reputation this crap happens. Big deal.
We lost this game in the first 8 minutes of the second half when UT came out and punched us in the mouth, hit a flurry of shots, and we had no response.
Why do you keep posting different versions of the same thing? No one stated we lost simply because of 26-0, it could have been 26-12 and we still would/could have lost. This thread is simply about the absurdity of 26-0 and about dumbasses acting like its no big deal.
Not absurd, and not a big deal. :facepalm:
ugh.
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It's the road. We got homered. When you don't have an elite player or an elite reputation this crap happens. Big deal.
We lost this game in the first 8 minutes of the second half when UT came out and punched us in the mouth, hit a flurry of shots, and we had no response.
Why do you keep posting different versions of the same thing? No one stated we lost simply because of 26-0, it could have been 26-12 and we still would/could have lost. This thread is simply about the absurdity of 26-0 and about dumbasses acting like its no big deal.
Not absurd, and not a big deal. :facepalm:
Lol. Troll hard, cat27.
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like, just went through the play-by-play....it's ESPN so not sure how accurate, but piss and moan about the officiating up to that point, but @ 8:25, UT took the lead w/ a Brown 3 pointer to make it 54-56 UT.....then until the 1 minute mark of the game.....
Jamar - 0-2, 2 TO's, 2 Fouls
Awful - 1-3, 2 TO's, 1 Foul
South - 2-2, 0 TO's, 0 Fouls
McSuck - 0-0, 1 TO, 0 Fouls
Won't - 0-2, 0 TO's, 1 Foul
Diaz - 0-0, 0 TO's, 0 Fouls
Gipsuck - 0-1, 0 TO's, 0 Fouls
collectively - 3-10, 6 TO's, 4 Fouls
We had an opportunity to win the game, when it was just a 2 point ball game....and 4 fouls called on us in 7 minutes. So, bitch away at the 3 guys in stripes that don't deserve it instead of the guys in purple that do.
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Currie tweeted about it and has since been deleted.
What did he say?
'What's the foul count in the second half?'
was quickly removed.
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Of Texas 10 fouls in 1st half, 5 were by starters 5 were by their bench. Chapman and Kabongo had 2 fouls each. Bond had 3 (not a starter).
Its not like Brown was 1 of those 2 guys with 2 fouls
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Horrible defense. That is why we are now officially bubble.
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Horrible defense. That is why we are now officially bubble.
actually I'm pretty sure we're literally on the bubble.
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Horrible defense. That is why we are now officially bubble.
Bigwillie is going to laugh at you
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Horrible defense. That is why we are now officially bubble.
Gottlieb tweeted that we were on the outside looking in, but with a home game. None of this matters, because the next 3 games will probably be the determining factor.
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like, just went through the play-by-play....it's ESPN so not sure how accurate, but piss and moan about the officiating up to that point, but @ 8:25, UT took the lead w/ a Brown 3 pointer to make it 54-56 UT.....then until the 1 minute mark of the game.....
Jamar - 0-2, 2 TO's, 2 Fouls
Awful - 1-3, 2 TO's, 1 Foul
South - 2-2, 0 TO's, 0 Fouls
McSuck - 0-0, 1 TO, 0 Fouls
Won't - 0-2, 0 TO's, 1 Foul
Diaz - 0-0, 0 TO's, 0 Fouls
Gipsuck - 0-1, 0 TO's, 0 Fouls
collectively - 3-10, 6 TO's, 4 Fouls
We had an opportunity to win the game, when it was just a 2 point ball game....and 4 fouls called on us in 7 minutes. So, bitch away at the 3 guys in stripes that don't deserve it instead of the guys in purple that do.
Once again, no one has said the officials cost us the game. There are four of you hell bent on arguing, foregoing all common sense. You're getting the same strawman that wabash got.
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Horrible defense. That is why we are now officially bubble.
Gottlieb tweeted that we were on the outside looking in, but with a home game. None of this matters, because the next 3 6 games will probably be the determining factor.
We can go 0-3 and still be fine as long as we win the next 3. People still think UCONN is in the tourney for heavens sake.
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It's the road. We got homered. When you don't have an elite player or an elite reputation this crap happens. Big deal.
We lost this game in the first 8 minutes of the second half when UT came out and punched us in the mouth, hit a flurry of shots, and we had no response.
Why do you keep posting different versions of the same thing? No one stated we lost simply because of 26-0, it could have been 26-12 and we still would/could have lost. This thread is simply about the absurdity of 26-0 and about dumbasses acting like its no big deal.
I agree that it's absurd, and I agree that it played a part. What I'm trying to focus on is the bigger picture pattern of losing that continues to repeat itself. Because, there are obviously substantially much bigger reasons for why we lost today than a bunch of crap that is out of our control like shitty officiating.
Does it piss me off that we got homered? Yeah. I'm just more pissed off because we don't have the mental strength to overcome it and I'm sick and effing tired of watching the same identical repeating scenario play out that leads to another loss and contributes to a squandered season.
I'm more pissed about shooting 32.8% and allowing UT to shoot 68.2% from the field in route to getting outscored by 20 in the second half.
To each his own. There was a lot of shittiness to pick from this afternoon.
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then why bring the officiating up? christ, do you watch this team? we don't have anyone who can get into the lane and get contact or if the shot is missed it's more likely that a foul is going to occur because the defense was out of position because it had to help. when this occurs over and over and over and over again, fouls will pile up.
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It's the road. We got homered. When you don't have an elite player or an elite reputation this crap happens. Big deal.
We lost this game in the first 8 minutes of the second half when UT came out and punched us in the mouth, hit a flurry of shots, and we had no response.
Why do you keep posting different versions of the same thing? No one stated we lost simply because of 26-0, it could have been 26-12 and we still would/could have lost. This thread is simply about the absurdity of 26-0 and about dumbasses acting like its no big deal.
I agree that it's absurd, and I agree that it played a part. What I'm trying to focus on is the bigger picture pattern of losing that continues to repeat itself. Because, there are obviously substantially much bigger reasons for why we lost today than a bunch of crap that is out of our control like shitty officiating.
Does it piss me off that we got homered? Yeah. I'm just more pissed off because we don't have the mental strength to overcome it and I'm sick and effing tired of watching the same identical repeating scenario play out that leads to another loss and contributes to a squandered season.
I'm more pissed about shooting 32.8% and allowing UT to shoot 68.2% from the field in route to getting outscored by 20 in the second half.
The whole thing is frustrating no doubt. We've been in every game we've played in the 2nd half at least within 3 points. We've had double digit leads in multiple games. We've had the lead in the last 10 minutes in multiple games. And we've found multiples ways to lose.
Again, a bit part of the frustration is that Frank's teams have been pretty good in these games his first four years, and this year outside a couple it has been a real struggle.
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It's the road. We got homered. When you don't have an elite player or an elite reputation this crap happens. Big deal.
We lost this game in the first 8 minutes of the second half when UT came out and punched us in the mouth, hit a flurry of shots, and we had no response.
Why do you keep posting different versions of the same thing? No one stated we lost simply because of 26-0, it could have been 26-12 and we still would/could have lost. This thread is simply about the absurdity of 26-0 and about dumbasses acting like its no big deal.
I agree that it's absurd, and I agree that it played a part. What I'm trying to focus on is the bigger picture pattern of losing that continues to repeat itself. Because, there are obviously substantially much bigger reasons for why we lost today than a bunch of crap that is out of our control like shitty officiating.
Does it piss me off that we got homered? Yeah. I'm just more pissed off because we don't have the mental strength to overcome it and I'm sick and effing tired of watching the same identical repeating scenario play out that leads to another loss and contributes to a squandered season.
I'm more pissed about shooting 32.8% and allowing UT to shoot 68.2% from the field in route to getting outscored by 20 in the second half.
To each his own. There was a lot of shittiness to pick from this afternoon.
Replace mental strength with talent and I agree totally. Overcoming what had to be overcome requires shot making, we clearly don't have enough of that. I actually think that mentally the team did well not to completely meltdown. Being strong mentally won't score points.
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It's the road. We got homered. When you don't have an elite player or an elite reputation this crap happens. Big deal.
We lost this game in the first 8 minutes of the second half when UT came out and punched us in the mouth, hit a flurry of shots, and we had no response.
Why do you keep posting different versions of the same thing? No one stated we lost simply because of 26-0, it could have been 26-12 and we still would/could have lost. This thread is simply about the absurdity of 26-0 and about dumbasses acting like its no big deal.
I agree that it's absurd, and I agree that it played a part. What I'm trying to focus on is the bigger picture pattern of losing that continues to repeat itself. Because, there are obviously substantially much bigger reasons for why we lost today than a bunch of crap that is out of our control like shitty officiating.
Does it piss me off that we got homered? Yeah. I'm just more pissed off because we don't have the mental strength to overcome it and I'm sick and effing tired of watching the same identical repeating scenario play out that leads to another loss and contributes to a squandered season.
I'm more pissed about shooting 32.8% and allowing UT to shoot 68.2% from the field in route to getting outscored by 20 in the second half.
The whole thing is frustrating no doubt. We've been in every game we've played in the 2nd half at least within 3 points. We've had double digit leads in multiple games. We've had the lead in the last 10 minutes in multiple games. And we've found multiples ways to lose.
Again, a bit part of the frustration is that Frank's teams have been pretty good in these games his first four years, and this year outside a couple it has been a real struggle.
Watching this team piss down their legs against Baylor, OU, Iowa State, and now Texas in identical fashion after amassing big leads is what infuriates me the most.
And I agree, what's hard is Frank won these games in the past because we have gotten accustomed to players that have risen to the challenge and our teams have been mentally tougher down the stretch.
Watching the return to Jim Wooldridge basketball has been hard.
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LOL at "cause it to precipitate" resident officiatard. :lol:
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you have to be a complete moron to think this is anything like a Jim Wooldridge season.
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It's the road. We got homered. When you don't have an elite player or an elite reputation this crap happens. Big deal.
We lost this game in the first 8 minutes of the second half when UT came out and punched us in the mouth, hit a flurry of shots, and we had no response.
Why do you keep posting different versions of the same thing? No one stated we lost simply because of 26-0, it could have been 26-12 and we still would/could have lost. This thread is simply about the absurdity of 26-0 and about dumbasses acting like its no big deal.
I agree that it's absurd, and I agree that it played a part. What I'm trying to focus on is the bigger picture pattern of losing that continues to repeat itself. Because, there are obviously substantially much bigger reasons for why we lost today than a bunch of crap that is out of our control like shitty officiating.
Does it piss me off that we got homered? Yeah. I'm just more pissed off because we don't have the mental strength to overcome it and I'm sick and effing tired of watching the same identical repeating scenario play out that leads to another loss and contributes to a squandered season.
I'm more pissed about shooting 32.8% and allowing UT to shoot 68.2% from the field in route to getting outscored by 20 in the second half.
To each his own. There was a lot of shittiness to pick from this afternoon.
Replace mental strength with talent and I agree totally. Overcoming what had to be overcome requires shot making, we clearly don't have enough of that. I actually think that mentally the team did well not to completely meltdown. Being strong mentally won't score points.
It is a talent issue, mostly. Talented players inherently have more confidence and they want the ball in their hands down the stretch. We've got a bunch of role players and no elite play makers that we can rely on during critical stretches in the game. Very frustrating.
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you have to be a complete moron to think this is anything like a Jim Wooldridge season.
Right. Instead of finishing 6-10, we'll finish 8-10, and there will be numerous close losses.
Totally different.
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Frankites battling hard.
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you have to be a complete moron to think this is anything like a Jim Wooldridge season.
Right. Instead of finishing 6-10, we'll finish 8-10, and there will be numerous close losses.
Totally different.
Wooly's best season was being outside of the NIT at 17-12. Our win over Missouri is better than any win under Gentle Jim.
Programs like ours are going to have years like this. We just have to hope we balance them with 2009-2010 type of seasons.
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you have to be a complete moron to think this is anything like a Jim Wooldridge season.
Right. Instead of finishing 6-10, we'll finish 8-10, and there will be numerous close losses.
Totally different.
we can't expect our program to go to the NCAA every year, Wabash. That's f'ing crazy talk. Just be happy that it's better than Wooly, Asbury, and Dana. The floor is always the standard.
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Pay Frank!!
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There is no substitute for highly skilled and experienced guard play.*
When you have multiple guards with those qualities, you can be really dangerous.
Not to neglect the rest of the roster, but when the crap hits the fan, you just need to have a guy who you can put the ball in his hands, and he can make a play. The more, the better(I'm putting the max at 3).
*Unless you have 2 5* FR frontcourt players, and even then, we were good, but not great.
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you have to be a complete moron to think this is anything like a Jim Wooldridge season.
Right. Instead of finishing 6-10, we'll finish 8-10, and there will be numerous close losses.
Totally different.
we can't expect our program to go to the NCAA every year, Wabash. That's f'ing crazy talk. Just be happy that it's better than Wooly, Asbury, and Dana. The floor is always the standard.
We should be one of the 3 programs in the country that not only make the tournament every year, but not only that but never be on the bubble. If you're on the bubble that means you're absolutely not going to make it. Pretty fair expectation IMO.
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There is no substitute for highly skilled and experienced guard play.*
When you have multiple guards with those qualities, you can be really dangerous.
Not to neglect the rest of the roster, but when the crap hits the fan, you just need to have a guy who you can put the ball in his hands, and he can make a play. The more, the better(I'm putting the max at 3).
*Unless you have 2 5* FR frontcourt players, and even then, we were good, but not great.
Very true.
Our best guard in terms of taking control is clearly Angel, and when he's good he's very good. But he just has stretches where he struggles, and he had one of those down the stretch in the 2nd half.
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you have to be a complete moron to think this is anything like a Jim Wooldridge season.
Right. Instead of finishing 6-10, we'll finish 8-10, and there will be numerous close losses.
Totally different.
we can't expect our program to go to the NCAA every year, Wabash. That's f'ing crazy talk. Just be happy that it's better than Wooly, Asbury, and Dana. The floor is always the standard.
We should be one of the 3 programs in the country that not only make the tournament every year, but not only that but never be on the bubble. If you're on the bubble that means you're absolutely not going to make it. Pretty fair expectation IMO.
It's about as reasonable as excepting goEMAW posters to not be Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) and meltdowny.
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There is no substitute for highly skilled and experienced guard play.*
When you have multiple guards with those qualities, you can be really dangerous.
Not to neglect the rest of the roster, but when the crap hits the fan, you just need to have a guy who you can put the ball in his hands, and he can make a play. The more, the better(I'm putting the max at 3).
*Unless you have 2 5* FR frontcourt players, and even then, we were good, but not great.
Very true.
Our best guard in terms of taking control is clearly Angel, and when he's good he's very good. But he just has stretches where he struggles, and he had one of those down the stretch in the 2nd half.
He definitely showed some stones hitting a few of those shots late and fearlessly attack the rim.
6 TO's and a couple came during the decisive stretch late. He has a good feel for throwing the lob on the pick and roll but I think he might have went to the well once too often there.
Just hope he keeps learning and continues to get better.
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you have to be a complete moron to think this is anything like a Jim Wooldridge season.
Right. Instead of finishing 6-10, we'll finish 8-10, and there will be numerous close losses.
Totally different.
we can't expect our program to go to the NCAA every year, Wabash. That's f'ing crazy talk. Just be happy that it's better than Wooly, Asbury, and Dana. The floor is always the standard.
We should be one of the 3 programs in the country that not only make the tournament every year, but not only that but never be on the bubble. If you're on the bubble that means you're absolutely not going to make it. Pretty fair expectation IMO.
we're going to the NIT this year. That's 2 in 5. 1 in 8 years? okay. 2 in 5, not okay.
And going to the NIT this year was completely avoidable if frank wasn't an average recruiter and awful at roster management. this team lacks leadership, leadership that could have come if Frank could have figured out a way to be anything more than a brick wall.
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you have to be a complete moron to think this is anything like a Jim Wooldridge season.
Right. Instead of finishing 6-10, we'll finish 8-10, and there will be numerous close losses.
Totally different.
we can't expect our program to go to the NCAA every year, Wabash. That's f'ing crazy talk. Just be happy that it's better than Wooly, Asbury, and Dana. The floor is always the standard.
We should be one of the 3 programs in the country that not only make the tournament every year, but not only that but never be on the bubble. If you're on the bubble that means you're absolutely not going to make it. Pretty fair expectation IMO.
we're going to the NIT this year. That's 2 in 5. 1 in 8 years? okay. 2 in 5, not okay.
And going to the NIT this year was completely avoidable if frank wasn't an average recruiter and awful at roster management. this team lacks leadership, leadership that could have come if Frank could have figured out a way to be anything more than a brick wall.
Nick Russell has a broken leg and was sitting behind the bench in a hoodie
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what's Buchi and Abdul Herereafdafa doing?
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what's Buchi and Abdul Herereafdafa doing?
I'm guessing the same thing they'd be doing had they exhausted their eligibility at KSU :dunno:
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This game eliminated us from NCAA tournament eligibility?
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what's Buchi and Abdul Herereafdafa doing?
I'm guessing the same thing they'd be doing had they exhausted their eligibility at KSU :dunno:
how about Devon? How about Myles? Omari was a really nice addition to this team as well. Nino was definitely a fantastic recruit - I mean he had 4 stars, glad frank is getting all 4 out of him. And the work Frank has done with JO is quite simply a privilege to watch. Having your junior big man regress to his freshman year is amazing. Knowing that whatever we get out of Diaz this year is what we can expect out of him in 2 years is so comforting. Hey, at least those two bigs made it through at least one year - Freddy's in colombia, right?
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This game eliminated us from NCAA tournament eligibility?
no, just a step closer. they don't announce time of death until the last breathe. hell even then they fight to revive the dead person for at least a few minutes.
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This game eliminated us from NCAA tournament eligibility?
no, just a step closer.
Oh, because you said we missed the tournament 2 out of 5 years and I was confused.
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This game eliminated us from NCAA tournament eligibility?
no, just a step closer.
Oh, because you said we missed the tournament 2 out of 5 years and I was confused.
no, I said we will. but i said that at the 10 minute mark of the first game. but we could always pin our hopes on winning a conf tournament. I mean, that's logical.
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you have to be a complete moron to think this is anything like a Jim Wooldridge season.
Right. Instead of finishing 6-10, we'll finish 8-10, and there will be numerous close losses.
Totally different.
6-12 is worse than 6-10, so this season is actually worse. :horrorsurprise:
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what's Buchi and Abdul Herereafdafa doing?
I'm guessing the same thing they'd be doing had they exhausted their eligibility at KSU :dunno:
how about Devon? How about Myles? Omari was a really nice addition to this team as well. Nino was definitely a fantastic recruit - I mean he had 4 stars, glad frank is getting all 4 out of him. And the work Frank has done with JO is quite simply a privilege to watch. Having your junior big man regress to his freshman year is amazing. Knowing that whatever we get out of Diaz this year is what we can expect out of him in 2 years is so comforting. Hey, at least those two bigs made it through at least one year - Freddy's in colombia, right?
Stop stealing all the thoughts out of my brain and posting them. The lack of improvement out of our bigs is astounding/unexcusable.
There is no substitute for highly skilled and experienced guard play.*
When you have multiple guards with those qualities, you can be really dangerous.
Not to neglect the rest of the roster, but when the crap hits the fan, you just need to have a guy who you can put the ball in his hands, and he can make a play. The more, the better(I'm putting the max at 3).
*Unless you have 2 5* FR frontcourt players, and even then, we were good, but not great.
Very true.
Our best guard in terms of taking control is clearly Angel, and when he's good he's very good. But he just has stretches where he struggles, and he had one of those down the stretch in the 2nd half.
Right, he has to be very good when he is good to make up for all of the Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) bullshit he does when he is being bad.
While I'm melting down, I'd just like to say it really sucks being the third best basketball team in the state. #PayGregMarshall
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9-9 and a win in the big 12 tourney we will get in
9-9 and a loss in the big 12 tourney........ yes a bubble team for sure
8-10. And our chances are not good
Lots of BB still left. Lots to be decided still
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Lots of BB still left. Lots to be decided still
:lol:
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9-9 is not a lock at all. like, at all.
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9-9 is not a lock at all. like, at all.
That's why he said + a win in the conference tourney too dumbass.
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9-9 is not a lock at all. like, at all.
That's why he said + a win in the conference tourney too dumbass.
sans a championship game run, you're either in or out prior to the conf tournament, dumbass.
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I do not see 3 more wins on our schedule to get to 9 wins. I am not very confident that we will win at A&M.
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What the refs did to us is inexcusable.
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What the refs did to us is inexcusable.
they know our fans are giant pussies and there is no repercussions for effing us in the A.
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Tech's up 16 vs OU w/ about 3 to go. Prolly blame both of our losses against OU on the officials too.
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you have to be a complete moron to think this is anything like a Jim Wooldridge season.
Right. Instead of finishing 6-10, we'll finish 8-10, and there will be numerous close losses.
Totally different.
we can't expect our program to go to the NCAA every year, Wabash. That's f'ing crazy talk. Just be happy that it's better than Wooly, Asbury, and Dana. The floor is always the standard.
Wooly-ism creeping back into the program right here.
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9-9 is not a lock at all. like, at all.
That's why he said + a win in the conference tourney too dumbass.
sans a championship game run, you're either in or out prior to the conf tournament, dumbass.
we're making the tourney. dumbass.
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9-9 is not a lock at all. like, at all.
That's why he said + a win in the conference tourney too dumbass.
sans a championship game run, you're either in or out prior to the conf tournament, dumbass.
we're making the tourney. dumbass.
no we aren't. If we make the NCAA Tournament, I won't post for a month.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsdchp.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F09%2FPoker-going-all-in.jpg&hash=eaf4e769edd5390afb8af87477a4e17804351bf5)
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lol
:rustyksupost:
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we realized that if you put the ball on the floor, you were going to get a call, no matter what.
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eff the police
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9-9 is not a lock at all. like, at all.
That's why he said + a win in the conference tourney too dumbass.
sans a championship game run, you're either in or out prior to the conf tournament, dumbass.
we're making the tourney. dumbass.
no we aren't. If we make the NCAA Tournament, I won't post for a month.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsdchp.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F09%2FPoker-going-all-in.jpg&hash=eaf4e769edd5390afb8af87477a4e17804351bf5)
You mean you won't post for that all important college sports month of April. Quite the sacrifice zacker, you're goEMAW's Ghandi.
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9-9 is not a lock at all. like, at all.
That's why he said + a win in the conference tourney too dumbass.
sans a championship game run, you're either in or out prior to the conf tournament, dumbass.
we're making the tourney. dumbass.
no we aren't. If we make the NCAA Tournament, I won't post for a month.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsdchp.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F09%2FPoker-going-all-in.jpg&hash=eaf4e769edd5390afb8af87477a4e17804351bf5)
:rolleyes:
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you have to be a complete moron to think this is anything like a Jim Wooldridge season.
Right. Instead of finishing 6-10, we'll finish 8-10, and there will be numerous close losses.
Totally different.
we can't expect our program to go to the NCAA every year, Wabash. That's f'ing crazy talk. Just be happy that it's better than Wooly, Asbury, and Dana. The floor is always the standard.
We should be one of the 3 programs in the country that not only make the tournament every year, but not only that but never be on the bubble. If you're on the bubble that means you're absolutely not going to make it. Pretty fair expectation IMO.
we're going to the NIT this year. That's 2 in 5. 1 in 8 years? okay. 2 in 5, not okay.
And going to the NIT this year was completely avoidable if frank wasn't an average recruiter and awful at roster management. this team lacks leadership, leadership that could have come if Frank could have figured out a way to be anything more than a brick wall.
it would be hard to do, but i would love to have a list of schools that have been to the tournament at least 7 times in the last 8 years. i mean how many? fifteen? so if your program is not top fifteen then it's not okay? not defending frank or the program, just trying to find your line for what is acceptable.
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Kansas
Texas
Kentucky
UNC
Louisville
Duke
Syracuse
Villanova
Arizona
Michigan State
Pitt
Xavier
Wisconsin
That's 13 schools and two of them, Arizona & Villanova will be coming off of this list at the conclusion of this season. Notice that Jim Calhoun and his 3 titles at UCONN and Billy Donovan and his 2 titles at Florida aren't on this list. Their fans should expect more.
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So I re-read the posts in this thread, especially between you and I MIR, and I've come to the conclusion that we were arguing for the sake of arguing. Or basically, you were insinuating that I meant things that I never said. 26-0 is pretty bad, we'll find out how bad tomorrow after I rewatch the second half. All I was saying was that we get called for a lot of fouls because we foul more than most teams do. I think everyone would agree with that. When we play well we also force other teams to foul us (especially on shots) more than they usually do. Actually, when we play really well we make tons of jumpers as well. Well, we hacked and fouled a shitload and didn't make UT foul us. This is the case at least from what I saw in the first half.
preemptive :dnr
19:25 – Angel gets away with a shove off
18:59 – Same possession Jamar gets away with throwning his man to the floor
18:50 – Same possession Wangamane tackles Jamar, no foul ball out of bounds to KSU
18:47 – Same possession Gip throws Chapman to the floor, no foul called. Possession ends in missed 3 from Angel (it was a good look)
18:32 – Kabongo beats Angel, might have been fouled on way to hoop, no call, scores anyway. I think this was just acting by Kabongo. Nice no-call.
18:20 – Gip may have been bumped down low by Champan (replay shows that there was no foul by Chapman, another good no call.
18:18 – Same possession Jamar and Wangamane get called for an LOL double-foul. This occurs while trying to rebound Gips miss. (score 4-0 UT at this point.)
17:53 – Jamar gets away with shove of (he’s been doing this constantly) while getting a pick up top. Jamar goes low to receive the pass on opposite block. Chapman hacks on the shot by Jamar. Foul called Jamar to shoot two.
17:49 – Kabongo charges into Will near midcourt. Charge called, good call, crowd boos.
17:27 – Wangamene loses Gip and gets a pass down low for an easy dunk. He traveled on the dunk attempt but not call. Pretty obvious travel.
17:07 – Holmes gets away with an illegal screen. Kabongo gets freed for a drive to the hoop. Gip makes a pussy reach in foul on the shot. Kabongo makes it for an and one. Foul should have been called on the screen. Gip made matters worse by not playing defense. He barely touched him but made the arm motion going down that is going to get called every time.
16:28 – Kabongo gets by Will and drives to the hoop Gip and someone JO help on the drive down low. Gip makes a clear blocking foul on Kabongo on the shot. Foul called. Shot goes in.
16:18 – Jaylen bond gets called for an off the ball foul battling for position. Jamar is very good at getting guys to foul him in these situations. It wasn’t a blatant foul but easily callable and you can tell the refs have been trying to clean up the game from the tip.
16:10 – Same possession, after a Spardling save JO ends up with the ball near the hoop, bond gets called for a foul on the shot. I believe he made contact with JO’s lower body, or reached hard to tell. Crowd boos (2nd booing btw), replay looks less like a foul than live shot, but still easily callable and refs have been tight all game.
15:56 – I was about to say that Jamar got away with a hack down low, but refs blew a late whistle and called the foul on the floor.
Under 16 TO (15:56) – KSU 9 possible fouls, 4 called. UT 7 possible fouls, 6 called. Refs blew traveling call on Wangamane. Score 11-9 UT.
15:46 or so (clock is malfunctioning on espn3) JO gets away with a trip/ illegal screen. Then Rodney is falls on dude who got tripped. Good no call on the second one.
15:20 – Lewis? gets away with possible reach as Diaz drives with shot clock running out. Diaz makes hoop.
15:01 – Good clean block by Southwell.
14:51 - clean clock by Chapman on Diaz.
14:36 - another clean block by Chapman on diaz.
14:34 - Diaz has position on Holmes for rebound and Holmes shoves him in the back. Foul called.
14:17 - Shane DOBs Chapman. Very nice
13:20 – JO fouls Brown to prevent a layup. Good hard foul by JO.
13:12 – Chapman goes for block on shot by Diaz. Clear foul. Foul called.
13:05 – Irving gets called for a bump near midcourt on Brown. Brown flails to get the whistle. Bad call IMO. Frank sits Tay. ?SMH
11:54 – McClellan flails to get a foul called on McGruder on a lay up attempt. Good no call.
Under 12 TO (11:54) KSU 2 probable fouls IMO 2 called except that Tay got jobbed on his foul and JO got away with one. UT 3 possible fouls, 2 called. Score KSU 16-15
10:32 – KSU dicks around and runs shot clock down to nothing. Angel drives and gets stuffed. Good no cal. UT blocks the follow. Another good no call.
10:07 – Diaz slaps Kabongo in the face as Kabongo drives past for a layup. No call
9:51 – Same Possession, Brown drives and a foul is called on Diaz on the shot. Looked like Diaz had a hand on Brown’s back but from this angle I can’t tell if he really fouled him.
9:51 – On KSU in bound Kabongo grabs Angel. Foul called. Good call. Crowd boos (3 memorable boos so far)
9:40 – Shane fouls McClellan to prevent an alley-oop. Good call. Good foul.
9:32 – Angel gets away with another shove off.
9:10 - Same possession, Angel forced to drive again with shot clock running down. Wangamene draws the charge on Angel. Good call.
8:35 – McClellan gets called for blocking off the ball against Will. Good off the ball whistle.
8:00 – Gipson gets called for a reach. I don’t think he really reached like to steal the ball, but he had his hands in as Wangamene cleared and made sure contact with his harms. Easy Call.
7:37 – Good block by Wangamene on Spradling drive. No call. I watched this three times looking for a foul.
7:34 – Angel called for a foul blocking on a run out lay up by UT. I thought the block was clean. Watched it 3 times. Bad call.
7:00 – Bond gets called for foul on McGruder FT line pull-up J. Ticky tack foul but refs have been calling it tight. Bond should know better.
5:35 – Fran thinks that Diaz gets away with Offensive Interferene on alley opp attempt from McGruder. I don’t know the rule here. But whatevs. IT looked to me like if he would have caught the ball no one would have noticed anyway.
4:47 – Will gets called for blocking on a Julian Lewis drive. Will clearly got him with the body on the shot. Good call.
4:22 – Looked like Wangemene got away with a bit of a reach while trapping Will on the wing. No Call
4:20 – Same possession, Diaz gets away with a foul on rebound attempt.
4:14 – JO shoves Wangamene into the goalpost padding. No call.
3:24 – JO fouls Wangamene on Wangamene putback attempt. Easy call.
1:36 – Jamar pushes McClellan in the back even though another EMAW had position on McClellan for the rebound. Good call. Jamar agrees.
:03 – Good block by KSU as Brown drives into the post.
Stanza – KSU 10 possible fouls, 7 called. One of the called fouls was BS on the Angel block.
UT – 4 possible fouls, 3 called.
First half – KSU 21 possible fouls, 13 called (official stats have KSU at 14 so I must have missed one somewhere. KSU also got jobbed on the travel and IMO the Irving and Angel fouls. UT – 14 possible fouls, 11 called. Fran thinks UT got jobbed on Diaz alley oop, meh.
Obviously the second half is what people are pissed about, but this takes a long time and I’m tired (it’s 1:35 AM). Interesting in this half is that KSU actually got the good lead in the cleanest portion of the game. Not surprisingly it occurred when Rodney and Will were draining threes. Funny how making shots helps the team a lot. I really couldn’t pay attention to offense/ defense execution much as I was basically just scanning the court for what IMO looked like fouls. Gip and Tay were the only ones (I might have forgotten someone) who got called for fouls out on the perimeter for KSU.
Second half will come sometime tomorrow. I may be proven wrong, UT may have gotten away with rape in the 2nd half. We’ll see.
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Kansas
Texas
Kentucky
UNC
Louisville
Duke
Syracuse
Villanova
Arizona
Michigan State
Pitt
Xavier
Wisconsin
That's 13 schools and two of them, Arizona & Villanova will be coming off of this list at the conclusion of this season. Notice that Jim Calhoun and his 3 titles at UCONN and Billy Donovan and his 2 titles at Florida aren't on this list. Their fans should expect more.
yeah. again, not a defense of frank or his program or this year, but that 7/8 suggestion was beyond dumb. kstate came off of like one in the last fifteen appearances or something and then the new coach is supposed to be ku or kentucky or duke or something and go 7/8 or it's not ok. jesus.
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Kansas
Texas
Kentucky
UNC
Louisville
Duke
Syracuse
Villanova
Arizona
Michigan State
Pitt
Xavier
Wisconsin
That's 13 schools and two of them, Arizona & Villanova will be coming off of this list at the conclusion of this season. Notice that Jim Calhoun and his 3 titles at UCONN and Billy Donovan and his 2 titles at Florida aren't on this list. Their fans should expect more.
yeah. again, not a defense of frank or his program or this year, but that 7/8 suggestion was beyond dumb. kstate came off of like one in the last fifteen appearances or something and then the new coach is supposed to be ku or kentucky or duke or something and go 7/8 or it's not ok. jesus.
yeah, really weird criteria. I think it's just zack trying too hard to be zack. Still, I really don't want him to stop posting if we go to the tournament (or if we don't).
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You mean you won't post for that all important college sports month of April. Quite the sacrifice zacker, you're goEMAW's Ghandi.
first, it will be part of march and april. second, for most of college sports this isn't important, but for ksu basketball fans, this is prime frank'ing time. this is where we find out or the rumors start flying about which player frank will run off so he can replace said player with someone of equal or lesser value and also younger.
Kansas
Texas
Kentucky
UNC
Louisville
Duke
Syracuse
Villanova
Arizona
Michigan State
Pitt
Xavier
Wisconsin
That's 13 schools and two of them, Arizona & Villanova will be coming off of this list at the conclusion of this season. Notice that Jim Calhoun and his 3 titles at UCONN and Billy Donovan and his 2 titles at Florida aren't on this list. Their fans should expect more.
I think it's reasonable for Florida and UConn fans to expect 1 NIT in 8 seasons, regardless of how many championships they've won. Expecting to be like Louisville is a stretch? Like Xavier? I mean, we shouldn't be afraid of having expectations. They aren't bad things. If our whole point is just to be mediocre, then f*ck it. quit playing.
-
Kansas
Texas
Kentucky
UNC
Louisville
Duke
Syracuse
Villanova
Arizona
Michigan State
Pitt
Xavier
Wisconsin
That's 13 schools and two of them, Arizona & Villanova will be coming off of this list at the conclusion of this season. Notice that Jim Calhoun and his 3 titles at UCONN and Billy Donovan and his 2 titles at Florida aren't on this list. Their fans should expect more.
I think it's reasonable for Florida and UConn fans to expect 1 NIT in 8 seasons, regardless of how many championships they've won. Expecting to be like Louisville is a stretch? Like Xavier? I mean, we shouldn't be afraid of having expectations. They aren't bad things. If our whole point is just to be mediocre, then f*ck it. quit playing.
I suppose there is some place for expectations in the middle IMHO. This year is frustrating and making the NIT is disappointing, no question about that. It just doesn't make for a great season. But unless NITs happen 2-3 years in a row, I'm not going to get disappointed enough to want a coach fired, not even close. I think even in today's college baskeball being one of the top 50 schools every year is still tough for a school like K-State, and the line between being number 30 and number 60 is a pretty fine one, and I think this year has shown that. There just isn't a big difference between those teams. But if you continually finish outside the top 50-60 (like Doc's Nebraska teams) then you have a situation where a change probably needs to happen IMHO, but we aren't even close to being there yet. Granted, I probably took the discussion from expectations and bridged to when you want to make a coaching change, but I think the two topics are always related.
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I think what happened was DeLoss met the refs in the refs tunnel at halftime and reminded them they were in Texas.
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I suppose there is some place for expectations in the middle IMHO. This year is frustrating and making the NIT is disappointing, no question about that. It just doesn't make for a great season. But unless NITs happen 2-3 years in a row, I'm not going to get disappointed enough to want a coach fired, not even close. I think even in today's college baskeball being one of the top 50 schools every year is still tough for a school like K-State, and the line between being number 30 and number 60 is a pretty fine one, and I think this year has shown that. There just isn't a big difference between those teams. But if you continually finish outside the top 50-60 (like Doc's Nebraska teams) then you have a situation where a change probably needs to happen IMHO, but we aren't even close to being there yet. Granted, I probably took the discussion from expectations and bridged to when you want to make a coaching change, but I think the two topics are always related.
the year is frustrating because it was entirely, 100% avoidable. The idea that this had to be a rebuilding year is absurd. It didn't have to be; frank's decision(s) made it so. That is pretty much the core of my anger/disappointment. Much like '04/05 football didn't happen overnight, this started in '08 for Frank and each subsequent recruiting class. Also, I'm of the belief that you know what you have in a coach by now. So, this is frank. This is K-State. This is what we'll be. We've known we were going to make the tournament 2 times in 5 years. Known. Not worried at selection time.
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The problem I see is that due to the shitty recruiting and roster turnover, there is a high probability that that this could be a downward trend if it's not corrected.
That's what I am concerned with. It's not about missing out on the NCAA's one season. It's about projecting the next five.
A school like Syracuse, UCONN or Louisville or any of the elites mentioned will go to an NIT every once in a while and then infuse the program with top echelon recruiting to reset the course of the program. That's what I'm not seeing right now.
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The problem I see is that due to the shitty recruiting and roster turnover, there is a high probability that that this could be a downward trend if it's not corrected.
That's what I am concerned with. It's not about missing out on the NCAA's one season. It's about projecting the next five.
A school like Syracuse, UCONN or Louisville or any of the elites mentioned will go to an NIT every once in a while and then infuse the program with top echelon recruiting to reset the course of the program. That's what I'm not seeing right now.
Perhaps, but I think we've got a FR-SO base that can win if Frank keeps them all around. Of course, that is a big question.
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due to the shitty recruiting
"Credibility Lost: The true story of Wabash909"
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So I re-read the posts in this thread, especially between you and I MIR, and I've come to the conclusion that we were arguing for the sake of arguing. Or basically, you were insinuating that I meant things that I never said. 26-0 is pretty bad, we'll find out how bad tomorrow after I rewatch the second half. All I was saying was that we get called for a lot of fouls because we foul more than most teams do. I think everyone would agree with that. When we play well we also force other teams to foul us (especially on shots) more than they usually do. Actually, when we play really well we make tons of jumpers as well. Well, we hacked and fouled a shitload and didn't make UT foul us. This is the case at least from what I saw in the first half.
preemptive :dnr
19:25 – Angel gets away with a shove off
18:59 – Same possession Jamar gets away with throwning his man to the floor
18:50 – Same possession Wangamane tackles Jamar, no foul ball out of bounds to KSU
18:47 – Same possession Gip throws Chapman to the floor, no foul called. Possession ends in missed 3 from Angel (it was a good look)
18:32 – Kabongo beats Angel, might have been fouled on way to hoop, no call, scores anyway. I think this was just acting by Kabongo. Nice no-call.
18:20 – Gip may have been bumped down low by Champan (replay shows that there was no foul by Chapman, another good no call.
18:18 – Same possession Jamar and Wangamane get called for an LOL double-foul. This occurs while trying to rebound Gips miss. (score 4-0 UT at this point.)
17:53 – Jamar gets away with shove of (he’s been doing this constantly) while getting a pick up top. Jamar goes low to receive the pass on opposite block. Chapman hacks on the shot by Jamar. Foul called Jamar to shoot two.
17:49 – Kabongo charges into Will near midcourt. Charge called, good call, crowd boos.
17:27 – Wangamene loses Gip and gets a pass down low for an easy dunk. He traveled on the dunk attempt but not call. Pretty obvious travel.
17:07 – Holmes gets away with an illegal screen. Kabongo gets freed for a drive to the hoop. Gip makes a pussy reach in foul on the shot. Kabongo makes it for an and one. Foul should have been called on the screen. Gip made matters worse by not playing defense. He barely touched him but made the arm motion going down that is going to get called every time.
16:28 – Kabongo gets by Will and drives to the hoop Gip and someone JO help on the drive down low. Gip makes a clear blocking foul on Kabongo on the shot. Foul called. Shot goes in.
16:18 – Jaylen bond gets called for an off the ball foul battling for position. Jamar is very good at getting guys to foul him in these situations. It wasn’t a blatant foul but easily callable and you can tell the refs have been trying to clean up the game from the tip.
16:10 – Same possession, after a Spardling save JO ends up with the ball near the hoop, bond gets called for a foul on the shot. I believe he made contact with JO’s lower body, or reached hard to tell. Crowd boos (2nd booing btw), replay looks less like a foul than live shot, but still easily callable and refs have been tight all game.
15:56 – I was about to say that Jamar got away with a hack down low, but refs blew a late whistle and called the foul on the floor.
Under 16 TO (15:56) – KSU 9 possible fouls, 4 called. UT 7 possible fouls, 6 called. Refs blew traveling call on Wangamane. Score 11-9 UT.
15:46 or so (clock is malfunctioning on espn3) JO gets away with a trip/ illegal screen. Then Rodney is falls on dude who got tripped. Good no call on the second one.
15:20 – Lewis? gets away with possible reach as Diaz drives with shot clock running out. Diaz makes hoop.
15:01 – Good clean block by Southwell.
14:51 - clean clock by Chapman on Diaz.
14:36 - another clean block by Chapman on diaz.
14:34 - Diaz has position on Holmes for rebound and Holmes shoves him in the back. Foul called.
14:17 - Shane DOBs Chapman. Very nice
13:20 – JO fouls Brown to prevent a layup. Good hard foul by JO.
13:12 – Chapman goes for block on shot by Diaz. Clear foul. Foul called.
13:05 – Irving gets called for a bump near midcourt on Brown. Brown flails to get the whistle. Bad call IMO. Frank sits Tay. ?SMH
11:54 – McClellan flails to get a foul called on McGruder on a lay up attempt. Good no call.
Under 12 TO (11:54) KSU 2 probable fouls IMO 2 called except that Tay got jobbed on his foul and JO got away with one. UT 3 possible fouls, 2 called. Score KSU 16-15
10:32 – KSU dicks around and runs shot clock down to nothing. Angel drives and gets stuffed. Good no cal. UT blocks the follow. Another good no call.
10:07 – Diaz slaps Kabongo in the face as Kabongo drives past for a layup. No call
9:51 – Same Possession, Brown drives and a foul is called on Diaz on the shot. Looked like Diaz had a hand on Brown’s back but from this angle I can’t tell if he really fouled him.
9:51 – On KSU in bound Kabongo grabs Angel. Foul called. Good call. Crowd boos (3 memorable boos so far)
9:40 – Shane fouls McClellan to prevent an alley-oop. Good call. Good foul.
9:32 – Angel gets away with another shove off.
9:10 - Same possession, Angel forced to drive again with shot clock running down. Wangamene draws the charge on Angel. Good call.
8:35 – McClellan gets called for blocking off the ball against Will. Good off the ball whistle.
8:00 – Gipson gets called for a reach. I don’t think he really reached like to steal the ball, but he had his hands in as Wangamene cleared and made sure contact with his harms. Easy Call.
7:37 – Good block by Wangamene on Spradling drive. No call. I watched this three times looking for a foul.
7:34 – Angel called for a foul blocking on a run out lay up by UT. I thought the block was clean. Watched it 3 times. Bad call.
7:00 – Bond gets called for foul on McGruder FT line pull-up J. Ticky tack foul but refs have been calling it tight. Bond should know better.
5:35 – Fran thinks that Diaz gets away with Offensive Interferene on alley opp attempt from McGruder. I don’t know the rule here. But whatevs. IT looked to me like if he would have caught the ball no one would have noticed anyway.
4:47 – Will gets called for blocking on a Julian Lewis drive. Will clearly got him with the body on the shot. Good call.
4:22 – Looked like Wangemene got away with a bit of a reach while trapping Will on the wing. No Call
4:20 – Same possession, Diaz gets away with a foul on rebound attempt.
4:14 – JO shoves Wangamene into the goalpost padding. No call.
3:24 – JO fouls Wangamene on Wangamene putback attempt. Easy call.
1:36 – Jamar pushes McClellan in the back even though another EMAW had position on McClellan for the rebound. Good call. Jamar agrees.
:03 – Good block by KSU as Brown drives into the post.
Stanza – KSU 10 possible fouls, 7 called. One of the called fouls was BS on the Angel block.
UT – 4 possible fouls, 3 called.
First half – KSU 21 possible fouls, 13 called (official stats have KSU at 14 so I must have missed one somewhere. KSU also got jobbed on the travel and IMO the Irving and Angel fouls. UT – 14 possible fouls, 11 called. Fran thinks UT got jobbed on Diaz alley oop, meh.
Obviously the second half is what people are pissed about, but this takes a long time and I’m tired (it’s 1:35 AM). Interesting in this half is that KSU actually got the good lead in the cleanest portion of the game. Not surprisingly it occurred when Rodney and Will were draining threes. Funny how making shots helps the team a lot. I really couldn’t pay attention to offense/ defense execution much as I was basically just scanning the court for what IMO looked like fouls. Gip and Tay were the only ones (I might have forgotten someone) who got called for fouls out on the perimeter for KSU.
Second half will come sometime tomorrow. I may be proven wrong, UT may have gotten away with rape in the 2nd half. We’ll see.
Jesus Christ, I mean I don't even know. Nic, you literally don't understand what is happening here. There isn't a person on thee board who said K-State didn't foul that much. You wasted your time focused on the wrong thing. Zero is the issue, zero, zero, zero. How is that so hard to understand? The absolute worst no call of the day was in the first half and you didn't even mention it is your precious little game diary. Shane was absolutely mauled by Clint Chapman when Shane dunked on his face anyway, no call. Not only was there no call but I'm pretty sure there was a blow to the head that should have been a flagrant 1. As I said yesterday before you started this, don't waste your time.
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Yeah Shane was fouled.
Still doesn't change the cold hard reality that as long as Frank continues to recruit the way he does it's pretty much going to be a nail biter every year riding various sections of the NCAA bubble into March.
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As I said yesterday before you started this, don't waste your time.
I'm not against nicname spending his entire sunday doing the 2nd half. WNR.
Are we still trying to play ball today? I really don't have time but if everyone's fired up about it, I'll join. I've got a much better chance of playing one of these upcoming weekend nights or next weekend.
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due to the shitty recruiting
"Credibility Lost: The true story of Wabash909"
relative to the big 12, it's below average. Looking at the "new" big 12, KU, UT, Baylor, OSU, WVU are all better. We are probably equal to ISU and OU. So when you look ahead, we're better than TCU and TT and in a class that puts us battling for 6-8 place. Frank is losing these games before he plays them.
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The problem I see is that due to the shitty recruiting and roster turnover, there is a high probability that that this could be a downward trend if it's not corrected.
That's what I am concerned with. It's not about missing out on the NCAA's one season. It's about projecting the next five.
A school like Syracuse, UCONN or Louisville or any of the elites mentioned will go to an NIT every once in a while and then infuse the program with top echelon recruiting to reset the course of the program. That's what I'm not seeing right now.
Perhaps, but I think we've got a FR-SO base that can win if Frank keeps them all around. Of course, that is a big question.
Depends what our expectations for winning are. Trying to win a league title and make deep runs in the tournament or being a fringe bubble NCAA/NIT team on an annual basis?
The FR-SO base is a nice group, but their ceiling from my perspective is an average to slightly above average team in this league.
We know it takes elite talent, at least a pro/NBA player or two on your roster to win at a high level in this conference. It's an absolute given.
KU, Baylor, Texas clearly will have it. West Virginia will always have some elite talent with Huggins. So, we better get to a point where we are doing the same or this season will be more of the norm and not the exception.
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due to the shitty recruiting
"Credibility Lost: The true story of Wabash909"
relative to the big 12, it's below average. Looking at the "new" big 12, KU, UT, Baylor, OSU, WVU are all better. We are probably equal to ISU and OU. So when you look ahead, we're better than TCU and TT and in a class that puts us battling for 6-8 place. Frank is losing these games before he plays them.
:facepalm:
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due to the shitty recruiting
"Credibility Lost: The true story of Wabash909"
relative to the big 12, it's below average. Looking at the "new" big 12, KU, UT, Baylor, OSU, WVU are all better. We are probably equal to ISU and OU. So when you look ahead, we're better than TCU and TT and in a class that puts us battling for 6-8 place. Frank is losing these games before he plays them.
No matter how you slice it the recruiting doesn't even approach shitty. So since the recruiting is so bad you two must think that Frank is the best strategic coach in the conference, right?
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due to the shitty recruiting
"Credibility Lost: The true story of Wabash909"
:thumbs:
Yep. Shitty recruiting is not signing Semi Ojeley. It's shitty recruiting when you have the golden opportunity to sign a high impact, Top 50 small forward who is the brother of a guy on your team and in your own back yard and then wondering why KU, Baylor, and Texas are competing for league titles because they have better players.
But, go ahead and keep taking this personally.
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did I f*cking say it was sh*tty? I said it was below average. yeah, frank's a f*cking genius sitting at a league standing (6th) that is right around his recruiting standings.
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I think it's reasonable for Florida and UConn fans to expect 1 NIT in 8 seasons, regardless of how many championships they've won. Expecting to be like Louisville is a stretch? Like Xavier? I mean, we shouldn't be afraid of having expectations. They aren't bad things. If our whole point is just to be mediocre, then f*ck it. quit playing.
Are you willing to fire a coach at KSU if he goes to 2 NIT's in 8 seasons because Xavier did better? If not, what the eff is the point of your heroic expectations? I mean what in the world are you trying to do here? Just aimlessly bitch?
Also, I'm of the belief that you know what you have in a coach by now. So, this is frank. This is K-State. This is what we'll be.
The only problem is that his recruiting HAS evolved and improved since 2008. He doesn't land Upshaw or Gipson in his first three classes because he gets on them too late. Angel is far and away the best HS guard he's landed.
On the court, he completely dumped an offense midseason (which I don't really like, but still.) Just because you choose to ignore the change in Frank doesn't mean it isn't happening.
The FR-SO base is a nice group, but their ceiling from my perspective is an average to slightly above average team in this league.
That's what they are now. Are you saying the freshmen and sophomores have already hit their ceiling? :dunno:
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Missing on Semi would be bad.
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Missing on Semi would be bad.
Only if a similar decent player (from anywhere) is not landed.
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I think it's reasonable for Florida and UConn fans to expect 1 NIT in 8 seasons, regardless of how many championships they've won. Expecting to be like Louisville is a stretch? Like Xavier? I mean, we shouldn't be afraid of having expectations. They aren't bad things. If our whole point is just to be mediocre, then f*ck it. quit playing.
Are you willing to fire a coach at KSU if he goes to 2 NIT's in 8 seasons because Xavier did better? If not, what the eff is the point of your heroic expectations? I mean what in the world are you trying to do here? Just aimlessly bitch?
Also, I'm of the belief that you know what you have in a coach by now. So, this is frank. This is K-State. This is what we'll be.
The only problem is that his recruiting HAS evolved and improved since 2008. He doesn't land Upshaw or Gipson in his first three classes because he gets on them too late. Angel is far and away the best HS guard he's landed.
On the court, he completely dumped an offense midseason (which I don't really like, but still.) Just because you choose to ignore the change in Frank doesn't mean it isn't happening.
The FR-SO base is a nice group, but their ceiling from my perspective is an average to slightly above average team in this league.
That's what they are now. Are you saying the freshmen and sophomores have already hit their ceiling? :dunno:
-Not fire after this year - but it's a year in which he didn't meet expectations. atleast imo. that's the point. you have to establish the years in which a coach does or doesn't meet expectations in order to determine if this is the coach you want.
-frank is who he is. this team is who it is. landing upshaw is great, but we've missed out on the guys that would have really mattered. whether it's boynton, latwill (regardless), tony mitchell (regardless), cauley, smart, ellis, semi, among others....doesn't matter to me who we recruited against to get them, the point is elite talent doesn't exist in KSU. average talent does...average talent that has a <50% chance of getting to their senior year. Angel is so overrated on this board. I can't believe you're falling in the "frank's a genius for changing offenses" camp. You mean the offense where we gave the ball to pullen to score? What miracle changes has frank made this year?
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-Not fire after this year - but it's a year in which he didn't meet expectations. atleast imo. that's the point. you have to establish the years in which a coach does or doesn't meet expectations in order to determine if this is the coach you want.
See, I think he's doing fine this year. A game or two before now is all it would have taken to get us off the bubble, most likely. It isn't like we're falling off a cliff or there is some huge gap between what the team is and what your expectations are.
[/quote]
-frank is who he is. this team is who it is. landing upshaw is great, but we've missed out on the guys that would have really mattered. whether it's boynton, latwill (regardless), tony mitchell (regardless), cauley, smart, ellis, semi, among others....doesn't matter to me who we recruited against to get them, the point is elite talent doesn't exist in KSU. average talent does...average talent that has a <50% chance of getting to their senior year.
Why should we expect elite talent at KSU? With or without Frank? What's wrong with moving from average to slightly above average? I would like to see recruiting improve, just like you. And I think it will, based on the 2011 and 2012 classes, (which you choose to ignore because we missed some elite guys.)
I can't believe you're falling in the "frank's a genius for changing offenses" camp. You mean the offense where we gave the ball to pullen to score?
I'm not - it's just an example of him changing, which you said he can't/won't do, despite clear evidence to the contrary.
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-Not fire after this year - but it's a year in which he didn't meet expectations. atleast imo. that's the point. you have to establish the years in which a coach does or doesn't meet expectations in order to determine if this is the coach you want.
See, I think he's doing fine this year. A game or two before now is all it would have taken to get us off the bubble, most likely. It isn't like we're falling off a cliff or there is some huge gap between what the team is and what your expectations are.
-frank is who he is. this team is who it is. landing upshaw is great, but we've missed out on the guys that would have really mattered. whether it's boynton, latwill (regardless), tony mitchell (regardless), cauley, smart, ellis, semi, among others....doesn't matter to me who we recruited against to get them, the point is elite talent doesn't exist in KSU. average talent does...average talent that has a <50% chance of getting to their senior year.
Why should we expect elite talent at KSU? With or without Frank? What's wrong with moving from average to slightly above average? I would like to see recruiting improve, just like you. And I think it will, based on the 2011 and 2012 classes, (which you choose to ignore because we missed some elite guys.)
I can't believe you're falling in the "frank's a genius for changing offenses" camp. You mean the offense where we gave the ball to pullen to score?
I'm not - it's just an example of him changing, which you said he can't/won't do, despite clear evidence to the contrary.
[/quote]
why do you hate bill again?
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The FR-SO base is a nice group, but their ceiling from my perspective is an average to slightly above average team in this league.
That's what they are now. Are you saying the freshmen and sophomores have already hit their ceiling? :dunno:
Basically, yes. Based on a snapshot of what we currently have in the program compared to the rest of the league.
What leads you to believe any differently?
Relative to KU, Baylor we have considerably less talent. Relative to the young nucleus and the top 10 class at Texas? Texas is definitely more talented. Huggins has as much or more returning. OSU has nice crop of young talent and an emerging star in Nash. ISU is more talented this year and the Mayor can recruit.
It's a solid group, not taking anything away from it. I just don't see where we overcompensate the gap in relation to the rest of the league.
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Angel is pretty good. The reason this board "overrates" him because a lot of us see what he can become. He has more intensity than anyone on the team this year and, as a freshman, is having a lot of the offense through him. When he makes a good play, we see him making that play more often for 3 more years. That is why some of us may get too excited.
And when did your standards rise so high on recruiting? Is it realistic? Do you think we will be beating out Kentucky/Florida/KU on a regular basis? I'm all for us going after them because I want a 5* as much as the next guy, but recruiting has gone national and being a local kid means very little. Its just not realistic to expect us to win those battles on a regular basis. You fight them because its worth the ones you can steal. Louisville (Pitino) wanted Angel, that was a good victory. Honestly, no idea who else wanted Upshaw, but I'm sure we beat out some higher level schools for him. These are good wins. LatWill and Mitchell are irrelevant because they weren't going to play. That makes us 2-5 with what you listed +Angel. I think thats fine compared to who we're up against
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The FR-SO base is a nice group, but their ceiling from my perspective is an average to slightly above average team in this league.
That's what they are now. Are you saying the freshmen and sophomores have already hit their ceiling? :dunno:
Basically, yes.
What leads you to believe any differently?
Relative to KU, Baylor we have considerably less talent. Relative to the young nucleus and the top 10 class at Texas? Texas is definitely more talented. Huggins has as much or more returning. OSU has nice crop of young talent and an emerging star in Nash. ISU is more talented this year and the Mayor can recruit.
It's a solid group, not taking anything away from it. I just don't see where we overcompensate the gap in relation to the rest of the league.
We play younger players than a majority of the league. I expect this experience to help them improve more. ISU doesn't so much recruit, they get transfers. The method works to get a bad team to a decent team quickly, but isn't very sustainable. There aren't a whole lot of teams letting good players become available. At some point, you have to bring in talented freshman which I see as the transition that we're in.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgifsoup.com%2Fwebroot%2Fanimatedgifs%2F834879_o.gif&hash=0e65375889302d32532d09d4cbbd2e883337f60d)
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why do you hate bill again?
i know. at least I'm consistent.
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We came in late and Upshaw chose us over Georgetown (Big Man U), Lousiville, and Fresno State, which is where he's from. I think we're fine, not good or great, recruiting. We'll never have the 08 class again, but we're making progress. I think having Lamont on staff is especially going to help. The biggest thing is if we start keeping players for 4 years, and I think we will make more of an effort to do that. I can't feel too sympathetic about the JUCO players or transfers that come in and then are asked to leave after a year. They should know what's going to happen at this point. I just hate running of players that came in as freshmen.
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Missing on Semi would be bad.
Only if a similar decent player (from anywhere) is not landed.
wasn't it russel over denmon?
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when you recruit all 13 spots, you are going to have transfers. it is inevitable. the only way to avoid that is to recruit at least 2-3 just happy to be there guys. those transfers are painful to fans, but they don't hurt the teams talent level.
i very much agree with what michigancat said about semi ojeleye, only with the additional assertion that i think he will very likely prove to have been substantially overrated.
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when you recruit all 13 spots, you are going to have transfers. it is inevitable. the only way to avoid that is to recruit at least 2-3 just happy to be there guys. those transfers are painful to fans, but they don't hurt the teams talent level.
i very much agree with what michigancat said about semi ojeleye, only with the additional assertion that i think he will very likely prove to have been substantially overrated.
i don't think our players are transferring voluntarily.
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when you recruit all 13 spots, you are going to have transfers. it is inevitable. the only way to avoid that is to recruit at least 2-3 just happy to be there guys. those transfers are painful to fans, but they don't hurt the teams talent level.
i very much agree with what michigancat said about semi ojeleye, only with the additional assertion that i think he will very likely prove to have been substantially overrated.
Of course you are going to have some, but we are setting the bar pretty high. And IMO too much roster turnover isn't good for a program, even if you aren't losing great players.
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i don't think our players are transferring voluntarily.
in the great majority of cases, i agree, though some of them might think they are.
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IMO too much roster turnover isn't good for a program, even if you aren't losing great players.
i agree with you, i don't like it myself. just pointing out that the people that have stated that we'd have more talent with a different style of roster mgmt are wrong.
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You guys got screwed, the only time I've ever seen a difference in FT's/fouls like that are homer jobs from big 10 schools when they play @IU or @MSU, and even then I'm not sure I've ever seen the gap be that large.. No excuse for that, your coach better have been bitching up a storm in the post game presser..
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So I re-read the posts in this thread, especially between you and I MIR, and I've come to the conclusion that we were arguing for the sake of arguing. Or basically, you were insinuating that I meant things that I never said. 26-0 is pretty bad, we'll find out how bad tomorrow after I rewatch the second half. All I was saying was that we get called for a lot of fouls because we foul more than most teams do. I think everyone would agree with that. When we play well we also force other teams to foul us (especially on shots) more than they usually do. Actually, when we play really well we make tons of jumpers as well. Well, we hacked and fouled a shitload and didn't make UT foul us. This is the case at least from what I saw in the first half.
preemptive :dnr
19:25 – Angel gets away with a shove off
18:59 – Same possession Jamar gets away with throwning his man to the floor
18:50 – Same possession Wangamane tackles Jamar, no foul ball out of bounds to KSU
18:47 – Same possession Gip throws Chapman to the floor, no foul called. Possession ends in missed 3 from Angel (it was a good look)
18:32 – Kabongo beats Angel, might have been fouled on way to hoop, no call, scores anyway. I think this was just acting by Kabongo. Nice no-call.
18:20 – Gip may have been bumped down low by Champan (replay shows that there was no foul by Chapman, another good no call.
18:18 – Same possession Jamar and Wangamane get called for an LOL double-foul. This occurs while trying to rebound Gips miss. (score 4-0 UT at this point.)
17:53 – Jamar gets away with shove of (he’s been doing this constantly) while getting a pick up top. Jamar goes low to receive the pass on opposite block. Chapman hacks on the shot by Jamar. Foul called Jamar to shoot two.
17:49 – Kabongo charges into Will near midcourt. Charge called, good call, crowd boos.
17:27 – Wangamene loses Gip and gets a pass down low for an easy dunk. He traveled on the dunk attempt but not call. Pretty obvious travel.
17:07 – Holmes gets away with an illegal screen. Kabongo gets freed for a drive to the hoop. Gip makes a pussy reach in foul on the shot. Kabongo makes it for an and one. Foul should have been called on the screen. Gip made matters worse by not playing defense. He barely touched him but made the arm motion going down that is going to get called every time.
16:28 – Kabongo gets by Will and drives to the hoop Gip and someone JO help on the drive down low. Gip makes a clear blocking foul on Kabongo on the shot. Foul called. Shot goes in.
16:18 – Jaylen bond gets called for an off the ball foul battling for position. Jamar is very good at getting guys to foul him in these situations. It wasn’t a blatant foul but easily callable and you can tell the refs have been trying to clean up the game from the tip.
16:10 – Same possession, after a Spardling save JO ends up with the ball near the hoop, bond gets called for a foul on the shot. I believe he made contact with JO’s lower body, or reached hard to tell. Crowd boos (2nd booing btw), replay looks less like a foul than live shot, but still easily callable and refs have been tight all game.
15:56 – I was about to say that Jamar got away with a hack down low, but refs blew a late whistle and called the foul on the floor.
Under 16 TO (15:56) – KSU 9 possible fouls, 4 called. UT 7 possible fouls, 6 called. Refs blew traveling call on Wangamane. Score 11-9 UT.
15:46 or so (clock is malfunctioning on espn3) JO gets away with a trip/ illegal screen. Then Rodney is falls on dude who got tripped. Good no call on the second one.
15:20 – Lewis? gets away with possible reach as Diaz drives with shot clock running out. Diaz makes hoop.
15:01 – Good clean block by Southwell.
14:51 - clean clock by Chapman on Diaz.
14:36 - another clean block by Chapman on diaz.
14:34 - Diaz has position on Holmes for rebound and Holmes shoves him in the back. Foul called.
14:17 - Shane DOBs Chapman. Very nice
13:20 – JO fouls Brown to prevent a layup. Good hard foul by JO.
13:12 – Chapman goes for block on shot by Diaz. Clear foul. Foul called.
13:05 – Irving gets called for a bump near midcourt on Brown. Brown flails to get the whistle. Bad call IMO. Frank sits Tay. ?SMH
11:54 – McClellan flails to get a foul called on McGruder on a lay up attempt. Good no call.
Under 12 TO (11:54) KSU 2 probable fouls IMO 2 called except that Tay got jobbed on his foul and JO got away with one. UT 3 possible fouls, 2 called. Score KSU 16-15
10:32 – KSU dicks around and runs shot clock down to nothing. Angel drives and gets stuffed. Good no cal. UT blocks the follow. Another good no call.
10:07 – Diaz slaps Kabongo in the face as Kabongo drives past for a layup. No call
9:51 – Same Possession, Brown drives and a foul is called on Diaz on the shot. Looked like Diaz had a hand on Brown’s back but from this angle I can’t tell if he really fouled him.
9:51 – On KSU in bound Kabongo grabs Angel. Foul called. Good call. Crowd boos (3 memorable boos so far)
9:40 – Shane fouls McClellan to prevent an alley-oop. Good call. Good foul.
9:32 – Angel gets away with another shove off.
9:10 - Same possession, Angel forced to drive again with shot clock running down. Wangamene draws the charge on Angel. Good call.
8:35 – McClellan gets called for blocking off the ball against Will. Good off the ball whistle.
8:00 – Gipson gets called for a reach. I don’t think he really reached like to steal the ball, but he had his hands in as Wangamene cleared and made sure contact with his harms. Easy Call.
7:37 – Good block by Wangamene on Spradling drive. No call. I watched this three times looking for a foul.
7:34 – Angel called for a foul blocking on a run out lay up by UT. I thought the block was clean. Watched it 3 times. Bad call.
7:00 – Bond gets called for foul on McGruder FT line pull-up J. Ticky tack foul but refs have been calling it tight. Bond should know better.
5:35 – Fran thinks that Diaz gets away with Offensive Interferene on alley opp attempt from McGruder. I don’t know the rule here. But whatevs. IT looked to me like if he would have caught the ball no one would have noticed anyway.
4:47 – Will gets called for blocking on a Julian Lewis drive. Will clearly got him with the body on the shot. Good call.
4:22 – Looked like Wangemene got away with a bit of a reach while trapping Will on the wing. No Call
4:20 – Same possession, Diaz gets away with a foul on rebound attempt.
4:14 – JO shoves Wangamene into the goalpost padding. No call.
3:24 – JO fouls Wangamene on Wangamene putback attempt. Easy call.
1:36 – Jamar pushes McClellan in the back even though another EMAW had position on McClellan for the rebound. Good call. Jamar agrees.
:03 – Good block by KSU as Brown drives into the post.
Stanza – KSU 10 possible fouls, 7 called. One of the called fouls was BS on the Angel block.
UT – 4 possible fouls, 3 called.
First half – KSU 21 possible fouls, 13 called (official stats have KSU at 14 so I must have missed one somewhere. KSU also got jobbed on the travel and IMO the Irving and Angel fouls. UT – 14 possible fouls, 11 called. Fran thinks UT got jobbed on Diaz alley oop, meh.
Obviously the second half is what people are pissed about, but this takes a long time and I’m tired (it’s 1:35 AM). Interesting in this half is that KSU actually got the good lead in the cleanest portion of the game. Not surprisingly it occurred when Rodney and Will were draining threes. Funny how making shots helps the team a lot. I really couldn’t pay attention to offense/ defense execution much as I was basically just scanning the court for what IMO looked like fouls. Gip and Tay were the only ones (I might have forgotten someone) who got called for fouls out on the perimeter for KSU.
Second half will come sometime tomorrow. I may be proven wrong, UT may have gotten away with rape in the 2nd half. We’ll see.
Jesus Christ, I mean I don't even know. Nic, you literally don't understand what is happening here. There isn't a person on thee board who said K-State didn't foul that much. You wasted your time focused on the wrong thing. Zero is the issue, zero, zero, zero. How is that so hard to understand? The absolute worst no call of the day was in the first half and you didn't even mention it is your precious little game diary. Shane was absolutely mauled by Clint Chapman when Shane dunked on his face anyway, no call. Not only was there no call but I'm pretty sure there was a blow to the head that should have been a flagrant 1. As I said yesterday before you started this, don't waste your time.
Your refusal to live in reality is frustrating. I wasn't focused on the wrong thing? I looked at all possible/ probable fouls situations for both teams. Chapman didn't even foul Shane. I've watched that play numerous times. Shane didn't react to a possible foul. The announcers didn't notice anything. It didn't even look like a foul when you really take a look at it. If your whole beef is that we should have shot more than zero FTs in the second half, then I agree. I'm sure the refs missed a call or two, in fact, I know they did late. My whole original point was that we foul all the time and didn't make them foul. That is all I said originally and then you misconstrued my words and started talking nonsense. It's cool though. It's what you do. Everyone melts down in their own way.
I'm sure that when I take a closer look at the second half the both a) we probably should have shot more than 0 FTs b) It probably wasn't very many more than that because we didn't force UT to foul us.
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So I re-read the posts in this thread, especially between you and I MIR, and I've come to the conclusion that we were arguing for the sake of arguing. Or basically, you were insinuating that I meant things that I never said. 26-0 is pretty bad, we'll find out how bad tomorrow after I rewatch the second half. All I was saying was that we get called for a lot of fouls because we foul more than most teams do. I think everyone would agree with that. When we play well we also force other teams to foul us (especially on shots) more than they usually do. Actually, when we play really well we make tons of jumpers as well. Well, we hacked and fouled a shitload and didn't make UT foul us. This is the case at least from what I saw in the first half.
preemptive :dnr
19:25 – Angel gets away with a shove off
18:59 – Same possession Jamar gets away with throwning his man to the floor
18:50 – Same possession Wangamane tackles Jamar, no foul ball out of bounds to KSU
18:47 – Same possession Gip throws Chapman to the floor, no foul called. Possession ends in missed 3 from Angel (it was a good look)
18:32 – Kabongo beats Angel, might have been fouled on way to hoop, no call, scores anyway. I think this was just acting by Kabongo. Nice no-call.
18:20 – Gip may have been bumped down low by Champan (replay shows that there was no foul by Chapman, another good no call.
18:18 – Same possession Jamar and Wangamane get called for an LOL double-foul. This occurs while trying to rebound Gips miss. (score 4-0 UT at this point.)
17:53 – Jamar gets away with shove of (he’s been doing this constantly) while getting a pick up top. Jamar goes low to receive the pass on opposite block. Chapman hacks on the shot by Jamar. Foul called Jamar to shoot two.
17:49 – Kabongo charges into Will near midcourt. Charge called, good call, crowd boos.
17:27 – Wangamene loses Gip and gets a pass down low for an easy dunk. He traveled on the dunk attempt but not call. Pretty obvious travel.
17:07 – Holmes gets away with an illegal screen. Kabongo gets freed for a drive to the hoop. Gip makes a pussy reach in foul on the shot. Kabongo makes it for an and one. Foul should have been called on the screen. Gip made matters worse by not playing defense. He barely touched him but made the arm motion going down that is going to get called every time.
16:28 – Kabongo gets by Will and drives to the hoop Gip and someone JO help on the drive down low. Gip makes a clear blocking foul on Kabongo on the shot. Foul called. Shot goes in.
16:18 – Jaylen bond gets called for an off the ball foul battling for position. Jamar is very good at getting guys to foul him in these situations. It wasn’t a blatant foul but easily callable and you can tell the refs have been trying to clean up the game from the tip.
16:10 – Same possession, after a Spardling save JO ends up with the ball near the hoop, bond gets called for a foul on the shot. I believe he made contact with JO’s lower body, or reached hard to tell. Crowd boos (2nd booing btw), replay looks less like a foul than live shot, but still easily callable and refs have been tight all game.
15:56 – I was about to say that Jamar got away with a hack down low, but refs blew a late whistle and called the foul on the floor.
Under 16 TO (15:56) – KSU 9 possible fouls, 4 called. UT 7 possible fouls, 6 called. Refs blew traveling call on Wangamane. Score 11-9 UT.
15:46 or so (clock is malfunctioning on espn3) JO gets away with a trip/ illegal screen. Then Rodney is falls on dude who got tripped. Good no call on the second one.
15:20 – Lewis? gets away with possible reach as Diaz drives with shot clock running out. Diaz makes hoop.
15:01 – Good clean block by Southwell.
14:51 - clean clock by Chapman on Diaz.
14:36 - another clean block by Chapman on diaz.
14:34 - Diaz has position on Holmes for rebound and Holmes shoves him in the back. Foul called.
14:17 - Shane DOBs Chapman. Very nice
13:20 – JO fouls Brown to prevent a layup. Good hard foul by JO.
13:12 – Chapman goes for block on shot by Diaz. Clear foul. Foul called.
13:05 – Irving gets called for a bump near midcourt on Brown. Brown flails to get the whistle. Bad call IMO. Frank sits Tay. ?SMH
11:54 – McClellan flails to get a foul called on McGruder on a lay up attempt. Good no call.
Under 12 TO (11:54) KSU 2 probable fouls IMO 2 called except that Tay got jobbed on his foul and JO got away with one. UT 3 possible fouls, 2 called. Score KSU 16-15
10:32 – KSU dicks around and runs shot clock down to nothing. Angel drives and gets stuffed. Good no cal. UT blocks the follow. Another good no call.
10:07 – Diaz slaps Kabongo in the face as Kabongo drives past for a layup. No call
9:51 – Same Possession, Brown drives and a foul is called on Diaz on the shot. Looked like Diaz had a hand on Brown’s back but from this angle I can’t tell if he really fouled him.
9:51 – On KSU in bound Kabongo grabs Angel. Foul called. Good call. Crowd boos (3 memorable boos so far)
9:40 – Shane fouls McClellan to prevent an alley-oop. Good call. Good foul.
9:32 – Angel gets away with another shove off.
9:10 - Same possession, Angel forced to drive again with shot clock running down. Wangamene draws the charge on Angel. Good call.
8:35 – McClellan gets called for blocking off the ball against Will. Good off the ball whistle.
8:00 – Gipson gets called for a reach. I don’t think he really reached like to steal the ball, but he had his hands in as Wangamene cleared and made sure contact with his harms. Easy Call.
7:37 – Good block by Wangamene on Spradling drive. No call. I watched this three times looking for a foul.
7:34 – Angel called for a foul blocking on a run out lay up by UT. I thought the block was clean. Watched it 3 times. Bad call.
7:00 – Bond gets called for foul on McGruder FT line pull-up J. Ticky tack foul but refs have been calling it tight. Bond should know better.
5:35 – Fran thinks that Diaz gets away with Offensive Interferene on alley opp attempt from McGruder. I don’t know the rule here. But whatevs. IT looked to me like if he would have caught the ball no one would have noticed anyway.
4:47 – Will gets called for blocking on a Julian Lewis drive. Will clearly got him with the body on the shot. Good call.
4:22 – Looked like Wangemene got away with a bit of a reach while trapping Will on the wing. No Call
4:20 – Same possession, Diaz gets away with a foul on rebound attempt.
4:14 – JO shoves Wangamene into the goalpost padding. No call.
3:24 – JO fouls Wangamene on Wangamene putback attempt. Easy call.
1:36 – Jamar pushes McClellan in the back even though another EMAW had position on McClellan for the rebound. Good call. Jamar agrees.
:03 – Good block by KSU as Brown drives into the post.
Stanza – KSU 10 possible fouls, 7 called. One of the called fouls was BS on the Angel block.
UT – 4 possible fouls, 3 called.
First half – KSU 21 possible fouls, 13 called (official stats have KSU at 14 so I must have missed one somewhere. KSU also got jobbed on the travel and IMO the Irving and Angel fouls. UT – 14 possible fouls, 11 called. Fran thinks UT got jobbed on Diaz alley oop, meh.
Obviously the second half is what people are pissed about, but this takes a long time and I’m tired (it’s 1:35 AM). Interesting in this half is that KSU actually got the good lead in the cleanest portion of the game. Not surprisingly it occurred when Rodney and Will were draining threes. Funny how making shots helps the team a lot. I really couldn’t pay attention to offense/ defense execution much as I was basically just scanning the court for what IMO looked like fouls. Gip and Tay were the only ones (I might have forgotten someone) who got called for fouls out on the perimeter for KSU.
Second half will come sometime tomorrow. I may be proven wrong, UT may have gotten away with rape in the 2nd half. We’ll see.
Jesus Christ, I mean I don't even know. Nic, you literally don't understand what is happening here. There isn't a person on thee board who said K-State didn't foul that much. You wasted your time focused on the wrong thing. Zero is the issue, zero, zero, zero. How is that so hard to understand? The absolute worst no call of the day was in the first half and you didn't even mention it is your precious little game diary. Shane was absolutely mauled by Clint Chapman when Shane dunked on his face anyway, no call. Not only was there no call but I'm pretty sure there was a blow to the head that should have been a flagrant 1. As I said yesterday before you started this, don't waste your time.
Your refusal to live in reality is frustrating. I wasn't focused on the wrong thing? I looked at all possible/ probable fouls situations for both teams. Chapman didn't even foul Shane. I've watched that play numerous times. Shane didn't react to a possible foul. The announcers didn't notice anything. It didn't even look like a foul when you really take a look at it. If your whole beef is that we should have shot more than zero FTs in the second half, then I agree. I'm sure the refs missed a call or two, in fact, I know they did late. My whole original point was that we foul all the time and didn't make them foul. That is all I said originally and then you misconstrued my words and started talking nonsense. It's cool though. It's what you do. Everyone melts down in their own way.
I'm sure that when I take a closer look at the second half the both a) we probably should have shot more than 0 FTs b) It probably wasn't very many more than that because we didn't force UT to foul us.
Look at the amount of contact that Shane got on that dunk and than look at the amount of contact JH, Gipson and Diaz had on their 2-4th fouls. Comeback and tell me that was legit.
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Also, holler at me if you are playing hoops anytime.
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Also, holler at me if you are playing hoops anytime.
:thumbs:
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your coach better have been bitching up a storm in the post game presser..
he was a little busy gushing about how much he loves rick barnes, how great it was to see texas finally back to playing "barnes defense", and how good it made him feel to see seniors like the ut big playing great in their senior year.
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your coach better have been bitching up a storm in the post game presser..
he was a little busy gushing about how much he loves rick barnes, how great it was to see texas finally back to playing "barnes defense", and how good it made him feel to see seniors like the ut big playing great in their senior year.
I hate when he does that. It's almost like he is overcompensating for his media reputation. He's nearly completed five years and he still doesn't get that the media who don't cover him on a regular basis will always think he is a psycho and don't give two shits about his platitudes for his peers.
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your coach better have been bitching up a storm in the post game presser..
he was a little busy gushing about how much he loves rick barnes, how great it was to see texas finally back to playing "barnes defense", and how good it made him feel to see seniors like the ut big playing great in their senior year.
I hate when he does that. It's almost like he is overcompensating for his media reputation. He's nearly completed five years and he still doesn't get that the media who don't cover him on a regular basis will always think he is a psycho and don't give two shits about his platitudes for his peers.
I don't think he does it to placate media. I think he highly values being boys with as many coaches as possible, which makes sense and is in large part what got him to where he is. There will always be a good job for Marty, the oil-checking expedition leader.
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The FR-SO base is a nice group, but their ceiling from my perspective is an average to slightly above average team in this league.
That's what they are now. Are you saying the freshmen and sophomores have already hit their ceiling? :dunno:
Basically, yes. Based on a snapshot of what we currently have in the program compared to the rest of the league.
What leads you to believe any differently?
He's finished in the top 4 4 out of 5 years, and his recruiting is getting better. I guess you can say that top 4 is only "slightly above average" in a 10 team league, but I think that's intentionally vague and arbitrary. I also think they could crack the top 2 or 3 before they're done.
Relative to KU, Baylor we have considerably less talent. Relative to the young nucleus and the top 10 class at Texas? Texas is definitely more talented. Huggins has as much or more returning. OSU has nice crop of young talent and an emerging star in Nash. ISU is more talented this year and the Mayor can recruit.
It's a solid group, not taking anything away from it. I just don't see where we overcompensate the gap in relation to the rest of the league.
Is the fact that he's finished ahead of OSU 5 out of 5 years, Baylor 4 out of 5 years, and ISU 4 out of 5 years not enough to think he can get the freshmen and sophomores to finish ahead of them? The only thing that's changed is a couple transfers at ISU. You're right that we'll probably continue to finish behind KU and UT fairly consistently as long as their coaches are in place.
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Also, holler at me if you are playing hoops anytime.
I can't wait to see the 2nd half analysis :lick:.
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"Why should we expect elite talent at KSU? With or without Frank? What's wrong with moving from average to slightly above average? I would like to see recruiting improve, just like you. And I think it will, based on the 2011 and 2012 classes, (which you choose to ignore because we missed some elite guys.)"
If Baylor or AM teams completely devoid of basketball tradition can pull in elite talent I can't see why we should not expect Martin to manage to do likewise from time to time. Is that an unreasonable expectation? I admit that I just do not see any inherent recruiting advantage the Baylor or Aggie type programs might have over us. :dunno:
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'Te was not Tang. That's why we don't have elite talent. But we can all pretend that at little ol' KSU we can't expect to have nice things.
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But we can all pretend that at little ol' KSU we can't expect to have nice things.
cz, we have a very nice thing. don't throw it away because you want the nicest thing in the world for $39.99.
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But we can all pretend that at little ol' KSU we can't expect to have nice things.
cz, we have a very nice thing. don't throw it away because you want the nicest thing in the world for $39.99.
we have a nicer thing than we were used to for 20 years. so Baylor outspends us?
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26-0 seems a bit suspect to me.
I'm hoping Jason King calls for heads on pikes and hands nailed to the Senate doors.
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"Why should we expect elite talent at KSU? With or without Frank? What's wrong with moving from average to slightly above average? I would like to see recruiting improve, just like you. And I think it will, based on the 2011 and 2012 classes, (which you choose to ignore because we missed some elite guys.)"
If Baylor or AM teams completely devoid of basketball tradition can pull in elite talent I can't see why we should not expect Martin to manage to do likewise from time to time. Is that an unreasonable expectation? I admit that I just do not see any inherent recruiting advantage the Baylor or Aggie type programs might have over us. :dunno:
Aggie has not been pulling in elite talent or talent significantly better than us. I don't think they've finished ahead of us in the standings since Huggins' year, either. Baylor is a clear outlier in all of college basketball - no one has gone from as low as they were to bringing in elite talent as quickly anywhere. So I guess if you want to expect Frank to do what only one coach in college basketball has been able to do then be my guest.
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your coach better have been bitching up a storm in the post game presser..
he was a little busy gushing about how much he loves rick barnes, how great it was to see texas finally back to playing "barnes defense", and how good it made him feel to see seniors like the ut big playing great in their senior year.
I don't get that, even if he didn't have a problem with any of the individual calls, you still bitch up a storm in the presser and throw the 26-0 disparity out there a bunch because it's such a ridiculous stat.. It's gonna make the refs think about it and set up KSU for some more favorable officiating for the next game..
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First time in Big 12 history a team has had ZERO ft's attempted in a half. I think that's what I heard Wyatt say on KU pregame.
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I wish bobby knight would be a ref
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Welp, the terrible officiating just keeps getting worse.
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I feel much more hosed tonight. Between Angel and the officials I don't know who butt-raped us harder.