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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: catzacker on February 04, 2012, 08:46:48 PM

Title: The Battle for 5th
Post by: catzacker on February 04, 2012, 08:46:48 PM
Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 04, 2012, 08:51:36 PM
Better than most people thought :dunno:
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: wetwillie on February 04, 2012, 09:00:05 PM
5th place WOULD TAKE
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: kso_FAN on February 04, 2012, 09:00:35 PM
The loss in Ames was a killer.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: catzacker on February 04, 2012, 09:01:43 PM
Better than most people thought :dunno:

I think we were picked 6th. And I mean, I guess if we want to suck each other off for finishing 5th then great.  
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: sys on February 04, 2012, 09:02:49 PM
I mean, I guess if we want to suck each other off for finishing 5th then great.  

my guess is that you are opting out.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: catzacker on February 04, 2012, 09:04:51 PM
The loss in Ames was a killer.

....and home loss to OU...and home loss to baylor.  Win those and we would be a legitimate threat to take our rightful place as 4th best.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: michigancat on February 04, 2012, 10:24:19 PM
you know what? I think we can do it. :driving:
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Panjandrum on February 04, 2012, 10:37:56 PM
The loss in Ames was a killer.

Yeah.  It's going to be hard to make up two games with @UT, KU, @MU and @Baylor.  ISU has us on the road and Baylor twice.  I don't know.  Maybe there is something to Frank's 21-3 February record that will propel us to another Top 4 finish.

Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: catzacker on February 04, 2012, 11:04:55 PM
you know what? I think we can do it. :driving:

KSU : TT, @ UT, KU, @ BU, @ MU, ISU, @A&M, OSU
UT    : @ A&M, KSU, @ OU, @ OSU, BU, @ TT, @ KU
OSU : ISU, @KU, @MU, UT, @ OU, A&M, KU, @ KSU

OSU prolly has the toughest road. we pissed away any shot at top 4 last week.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Panjandrum on February 04, 2012, 11:10:19 PM
you know what? I think we can do it. :driving:

KSU : TT, @ UT, KU, @ BU, @ MU, ISU, @A&M, OSU
UT    : @ A&M, KSU, @ OU, @ OSU, BU, @ TT, @ KU
OSU : ISU, @KU, @MU, UT, @ OU, A&M, KU, @ KSU

OSU prolly has the toughest road. we pissed away any shot at top 4 last week.

You can't say "any" shot.  You can say "best shot", but not "any".

We had some bad luck.  I'm going to just sit back and let February happen.  It's worked out well in the past.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: sys on February 04, 2012, 11:10:43 PM
we pissed away any shot at top 4 last week.

kstate's only 2 back from isu in the loss column, zacker.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: catzacker on February 04, 2012, 11:16:59 PM
we pissed away any shot at top 4 last week.

kstate's only 2 back from isu in the loss column, zacker.

..but a mile back in my heart.

ISU does have some losses left on their schedule, but if we had won the last two games (or really just the ISU game and then one of BU and OU/@OU) then we'd have 4th locked up, with an outside shot at 2.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 04, 2012, 11:24:14 PM
Jfc ppl. 4th is where we'll be. Stop being respects. Half the league is good, half the lead is bad. Math for dummies.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: fatty fat fat on February 04, 2012, 11:27:25 PM
whatever. 5th place sucks.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: michigancat on February 04, 2012, 11:48:08 PM
If we hadn't lost any games we would be in sole possession of first.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: fatty fat fat on February 04, 2012, 11:50:27 PM
4th place guarnetee ncaa. 5th place would kind of be a step back, but there is still lots of season to play

regardless, a home W over KU...and the season is a success no matter
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: MakeItRain on February 05, 2012, 12:08:37 AM
we pissed away any shot at top 4 last week.

kstate's only 2 back from isu in the loss column, zacker.

Should I be surprised and or disappointed you got sucked into this stupid pity party?  Isn't the fact that this thread wasn't started on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, or even Saturday morning an obvious indicator of what this thread was intended to be?
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: sys on February 05, 2012, 12:11:02 AM
Should I be surprised and or disappointed you got sucked into this stupid pity party?  Isn't the fact that this thread wasn't started on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, or even Saturday morning an obvious indicator of what this thread was intended to be?

i dunno?  if you mean that cz is trying to deflect any positivity from today's win, then well yeah, that's what he does.  we all still like him though.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: catzacker on February 05, 2012, 09:26:58 AM
we pissed away any shot at top 4 last week.

kstate's only 2 back from isu in the loss column, zacker.

Should I be surprised and or disappointed you got sucked into this stupid pity party?  Isn't the fact that this thread wasn't started on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, or even Saturday morning an obvious indicator of what this thread was intended to be?

sure, the undertone was one of disapointment, but the post seemed kinda relevant given the isu win, osu loss and ksu win.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: MakeItRain on February 05, 2012, 10:03:41 AM
we pissed away any shot at top 4 last week.

kstate's only 2 back from isu in the loss column, zacker.

Should I be surprised and or disappointed you got sucked into this stupid pity party?  Isn't the fact that this thread wasn't started on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, or even Saturday morning an obvious indicator of what this thread was intended to be?

sure, the undertone was one of disapointment, but the post seemed kinda relevant given the isu win, osu loss and ksu win.

The thing is you don't actually believe there is a battle for 5th.  I know you're a cynical bastard, but you're smart enough to not let cynicism to override good sense.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: CyberToothCat on February 05, 2012, 10:15:44 AM
Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: EMAW4life-JHL on February 05, 2012, 11:07:05 AM
we will finish third
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: ChiComCat on February 05, 2012, 11:14:40 AM
Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: kso_FAN on February 05, 2012, 11:32:23 AM
Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

In all likelyhood we'll play ISU again and (hopefully) have a chance at beating them a 2nd time in 3 tries.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2012, 11:59:29 AM
you know what? I think we can do it. :driving:

KSU : TT, @ UT, KU, @ BU, @ MU, ISU, @A&M, OSU
UT    : @ A&M, KSU, @ OU, @ OSU, BU, @ TT, @ KU
OSU : ISU, @KU, @MU, UT, @ OU, A&M, KU, @ KSU

OSU prolly has the toughest road. we pissed away any shot at top 4 last week.

ISU: @OSU, A&M, @BU, OU, TT, @KSU, @MU, BU,

I could see ISU going 3-5, at the worst.

I could see us going 5-3 at the best. 

 :pray:
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: MakeItRain on February 05, 2012, 12:07:46 PM
Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
 http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)
 http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: felix rex on February 05, 2012, 12:28:28 PM
Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
 http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)
 http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)

20/10/4 168/169!

:runaway:
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: ChiComCat on February 05, 2012, 12:55:57 PM
Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
 http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)
 http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)

Not saying it would guarantee or is the most important factor but as far as conference standings, the difference between finishing above Iowa St and below Iowa St could be quite important.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2012, 01:00:11 PM
Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
 http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)
 http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)

Not saying it would guarantee or is the most important factor but as far as conference standings, the difference between finishing above Iowa St and below Iowa St could be quite important.

We need to be rooting for ALL bubble teams to lose.  Iowa State is just one of them.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: kso_FAN on February 05, 2012, 01:13:05 PM
Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
 http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)
 http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)

Not saying it would guarantee or is the most important factor but as far as conference standings, the difference between finishing above Iowa St and below Iowa St could be quite important.

We need to be rooting for ALL bubble teams to lose.  Iowa State is just one of them.

Listen to Pete.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Stupid Fitz on February 05, 2012, 01:24:19 PM
Please tell me which teams I should hate.

TIA
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: MakeItRain on February 05, 2012, 01:45:49 PM
Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
 http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)
 http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)

Not saying it would guarantee or is the most important factor but as far as conference standings, the difference between finishing above Iowa St and below Iowa St could be quite important.

We need to be rooting for ALL bubble teams to lose.  Iowa State is just one of them.

We aren't in the position to have to worry about that yet.  If we win four more games we're in.  I feel like I'm going to have to post this like 10 more times in the next month, but by all objective measures our profile as it relates to other bubble teams is very good.  Really this is just an extended freak out about the OU loss.  All bubble teams have loss/losses like this, we need to look at the other things.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: ChiComCat on February 05, 2012, 02:07:45 PM
Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
 http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)
 http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)

Not saying it would guarantee or is the most important factor but as far as conference standings, the difference between finishing above Iowa St and below Iowa St could be quite important.

We need to be rooting for ALL bubble teams to lose.  Iowa State is just one of them.

We aren't in the position to have to worry about that yet.  If we win four more games we're in.  I feel like I'm going to have to post this like 10 more times in the next month, but by all objective measures our profile as it relates to other bubble teams is very good.  Really this is just an extended freak out about the OU loss.  All bubble teams have loss/losses like this, we need to look at the other things.

You think 9-9 gets us in w/o a conf tourney win?  I am not so sure
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: MakeItRain on February 05, 2012, 02:49:21 PM
Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
 http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)
 http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)

Not saying it would guarantee or is the most important factor but as far as conference standings, the difference between finishing above Iowa St and below Iowa St could be quite important.

We need to be rooting for ALL bubble teams to lose.  Iowa State is just one of them.

We aren't in the position to have to worry about that yet.  If we win four more games we're in.  I feel like I'm going to have to post this like 10 more times in the next month, but by all objective measures our profile as it relates to other bubble teams is very good.  Really this is just an extended freak out about the OU loss.  All bubble teams have loss/losses like this, we need to look at the other things.

You think 9-9 gets us in w/o a conf tourney win?  I am not so sure

Take a look at the things that the committee supposedly covets and you'll be sure.  Also the committee has consistently said and shown that they don't place much value in the tournaments.  This comes up every single year and whomever the committee chair is gives a similar answer to the question.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2012, 02:52:57 PM
So, our "pluses" right now are:

1. 1 "marquee" win over Mizzou

2. Good record in a decent non-con from an RPI stand point

3.  hopefully above .500 in the conference


Am I missing some?



Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: MakeItRain on February 05, 2012, 02:55:26 PM
So, our "pluses" right now are:

1. 1 "marquee" win over Mizzou

2. Good record in a decent non-con from an RPI stand point

3.  hopefully above .500 in the conference


Am I missing some?





Yeah the best ones, top 50 and 100 wins.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: MakeItRain on February 05, 2012, 04:04:14 PM
Also number of road and neutral site wins.  We already have 7, that is an insane amount for a bubble team.
Title: Re: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Pete on February 05, 2012, 04:10:45 PM
Miami is rough ridin' us right now....COME ON DEVIL CATS!
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: ChiComCat on February 05, 2012, 05:17:01 PM
Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
 http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)
 http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007  (http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007)

Not saying it would guarantee or is the most important factor but as far as conference standings, the difference between finishing above Iowa St and below Iowa St could be quite important.

We need to be rooting for ALL bubble teams to lose.  Iowa State is just one of them.

We aren't in the position to have to worry about that yet.  If we win four more games we're in.  I feel like I'm going to have to post this like 10 more times in the next month, but by all objective measures our profile as it relates to other bubble teams is very good.  Really this is just an extended freak out about the OU loss.  All bubble teams have loss/losses like this, we need to look at the other things.

You think 9-9 gets us in w/o a conf tourney win?  I am not so sure

Take a look at the things that the committee supposedly covets and you'll be sure.  Also the committee has consistently said and shown that they don't place much value in the tournaments.  This comes up every single year and whomever the committee chair is gives a similar answer to the question.

I don't place a lot of value in the tournaments except for adding 1 more conference win or quality win.

I wouldn't feel comfortable unless we get to 10.  Our conference maybe dividing into two separate groups and I don't think it'll look good to be 5th if its 3 games back from 3rd.  Allows an observer to draw a big thick line between the deserving and the not.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: michigancat on February 05, 2012, 05:18:05 PM
So, our "pluses" right now are:

1. 1 "marquee" win over Mizzou

2. Good record in a decent non-con from an RPI stand point

3.  hopefully above .500 in the conference


Am I missing some?





Yeah the best ones, top 50 and 100 wins.

Also zero 100+ RPI losses.  aTm OSU, and TT are our only shots at one the rest of the way. @aTm obviously being the most difficult.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: MakeItRain on February 05, 2012, 05:23:02 PM
ChiCat, you are incorporating things the committee don't and can't look at.  I don't want to be mean but the things they look for when selecting teams are well documented and I've never heard any of the talking points that you're bringing up.  What the criteria is isn't really up for debate, how the criteria is applied to the last 3 or 4 teams is what the inevitable debate is.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: sys on February 05, 2012, 05:41:25 PM
this year is a soft bubble, with the pac 10 and acc likely occupying many fewer spots than normal and the big east not looking take those spots.  kstate could certainly fall to the wrong side of the bubble, but it looks like a pretty easy year to get in.  years like this make me really sad for c. martin, hoskins, harris et. al.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: MakeItRain on February 05, 2012, 05:54:51 PM
this year is a soft bubble, with the pac 10 and acc likely occupying many fewer spots than normal and the big east not looking take those spots.  kstate could certainly fall to the wrong side of the bubble, but it looks like a pretty easy year to get in.  years like this make me really sad for c. martin, hoskins, harris et. al.

That '06-'07 team was really hurt by a bad Big 12.  Their RPI was only 60 and they had one top 50 win and 3 top 100 wins and some garbage losses, Colorado State and Nebraska.  That team was much better than this one, but c'est la vie.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: catzacker on February 05, 2012, 06:34:15 PM
a "soft bubble" only means that there are a lot of average teams like KSU for the selection committee to choose from.  our OOC record/schedule could be our savior, but that's only if Bama and LB St. continue to be the paper tigers they are.  Really needed jones to miss that 3.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: kougar24 on February 05, 2012, 07:33:35 PM
That WVU loss still grinds my gears.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: ChiComCat on February 05, 2012, 09:06:50 PM
ChiCat, you are incorporating things the committee don't and can't look at.  I don't want to be mean but the things they look for when selecting teams are well documented and I've never heard any of the talking points that you're bringing up.  What the criteria is isn't really up for debate, how the criteria is applied to the last 3 or 4 teams is what the inevitable debate is.

I know where you're coming from and I know the committee has never mentioned conference finish.  That said, if there is a big gap in standings, I find it hard to believe some members won't see it as a cut off, whether they cop to it or not.  Agree to disagree I guess.  They say there is value on neutral and away wins, but the 06-07's 3 best wins came neutral or on the road and they got left out (granted, there weren't really any other wins of substance).  The committee talks out its ass a lot of times, is what I'm saying.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: gatoveintisiete on February 05, 2012, 09:17:55 PM
When it comes down to the nut cutting, sometimes a name means something, before we didn't have it, now k-state and Martin means more. :emawkid:
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: MakeItRain on February 05, 2012, 09:18:27 PM
ChiCat, you are incorporating things the committee don't and can't look at.  I don't want to be mean but the things they look for when selecting teams are well documented and I've never heard any of the talking points that you're bringing up.  What the criteria is isn't really up for debate, how the criteria is applied to the last 3 or 4 teams is what the inevitable debate is.

I know where you're coming from and I know the committee has never mentioned conference finish.  That said, if there is a big gap in standings, I find it hard to believe some members won't see it as a cut off, whether they cop to it or not.  Agree to disagree I guess.  They say there is value on neutral and away wins, but the 06-07's 3 best wins came neutral or on the road and they got left out (granted, there weren't really any other wins of substance).  The committee talks out its ass a lot of times, is what I'm saying.

If there's a big gap between 4th & 5th the 5th place team will be below .500
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 05, 2012, 09:59:39 PM
That WVU loss still grinds my gears.

Of all of our close losses, that's the one that grinds your gears?
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: wetwillie on February 05, 2012, 10:40:45 PM
We will win 5 of 8 to close this bitch out. Frank has a hard on for this time of year. Cutting drew off at the kneecaps in waco will be awesome.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Trim on February 05, 2012, 10:41:54 PM
Does ISU project to finish 11-7?
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 05, 2012, 10:49:32 PM
Since the North and South no longer exist, what's the tiebreaker if we finished tied for 4th with ISU? The obvious assumption being that we beat them here.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Trim on February 05, 2012, 10:53:31 PM
Since the North and South no longer exist, what's the tiebreaker if we finished tied for 4th with ISU? The obvious assumption being that we beat them here.

We get 4th because we'd wear our elite home gray unis in the tourney game.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on February 05, 2012, 10:57:08 PM
Since the North and South no longer exist, what's the tiebreaker if we finished tied for 4th with ISU? The obvious assumption being that we beat them here.

We get 4th because we'd wear our elite home gray unis in the tourney game.
Nope, denied. They get 4th for dobing better with white. That's always the tie breaker.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: kougar24 on February 05, 2012, 11:29:22 PM
That WVU loss still grinds my gears.

Of all of our close losses, that's the one that grinds your gears?

Did I say it was the only one?
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: MakeItRain on February 06, 2012, 12:48:42 AM
Does ISU project to finish 11-7?

Not that it matters for anything but that's what I had them at using the bracket generator, had KSU at 10-8
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: MakeItRain on February 06, 2012, 12:51:25 AM
Since the North and South no longer exist, what's the tiebreaker if we finished tied for 4th with ISU? The obvious assumption being that we beat them here.

    Tiebreakers. The first criteria in the breaking of ties in the standings shall be head-to-head competition of tied teams. The following procedure will be used to establish the postseason championship seeds when ties exist.

        Ties Involving Two Teams.

            Results of head-to-head competition during the regular season.

            Each team's record vs. the team occupying the highest position in the final regular-season standings, and then continuing down through the standings until one team gains an advantage.


            When arriving at another group of tied teams while comparing records, use each team's record against the collective tied teams as a group (prior to that group's own tie-breaking procedure), rather than the performance against individual tied teams.

            A comparison of the tied teams Conference-games only road record.

            A comparison of the tied teams Conference-games only road record vs. the team(s) occupying the highest position in the final Conference regular season standings, and then continuing down through the standings until one team gains an advantage.

            When arriving at another group of tied teams while comparing records, use each team's record against the collective tied teams as a group (prior to that group's own tie-breaking procedure), rather than the performance against individual tied teams.

            Draw. In the event tiebreaking procedures are unsuccessful and a draw is necessary in determining any portion of seeding, the following procedure will be used:

                The draw will be conducted in public or with media attendance.
                Institutions involved in the drawing have the right to have a local representative in attendance at the drawing.
                A single slip of paper for each institution (with name or logo) will be placed into a container and will be drawn in order of seeding from highest to lowest.

        Ties Involving More than Two Teams.

            Results of collective head-to-head competition during the regular season among the tied teams (mini round-robin).

            If more than two teams are still tied, each of the tied team's record vs. the team occupying the highest position in the final regular season standings, and then continuing down through the standings, eliminating tied teams with inferior records until one team gains an advantage.

            When arriving at another group of tied teams while comparing records, use each team's record against the collective tied teams as a group (prior to that group's own tie-breaking procedure), rather than the performance against individual tied teams.

            If more than two teams are still tied, a comparison of the tied teams Conference-games only road record.

            If more than two teams are still tied, a comparison of the tied teams Conference-games only road record vs. the team(s) occupying the highest position in the final Conference regular season standings, and then continuing down through the standing until one team gains an advantage.

            When arriving at another group of tied teams while comparing records, use each team's record against the collective tied teams as a group (prior to that group's own tie-breaking procedure), rather than the performance against individual tied teams.

            If at any point the multiple-team tie is reduced to two teams, the two-team tie- breaking procedures above will be applied.

            Once a team is eliminated from a multi-team comparison, it is dropped from further comparisons.

Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Trim on February 06, 2012, 12:54:47 AM
Does ISU project to finish 11-7?

Not that it matters for anything but that's what I had them at using the bracket generator, had KSU at 10-8

It matters in that I want to be in the elite top 4 and not in zacker's battle for 5th world.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: kso_FAN on February 06, 2012, 09:19:23 AM
ISU has @OSU and aTm
KSU has Tech and @UT
UT has @aTm and KSU
OSU has ISU and @KU

Hopefully OSU can pull off another home win vs ISU; I don't count on them winning in Lawrence. Would be really nice for us to have a 2-0 week.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: kougar24 on February 06, 2012, 09:22:29 PM
Do we care about UT/A&M?
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: sys on February 06, 2012, 09:31:03 PM
Do we care about UT/A&M?

go big 12.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: kougar24 on February 06, 2012, 10:50:13 PM
Do we care about UT/A&M?

go big 12.

K.

Oh, we won!!!
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: catzacker on February 12, 2012, 11:30:04 AM
KSU :  KU, @ BU, @ MU, ISU, @A&M, OSU
UT    : @ OU, @ OSU, BU, @ TT, OU, @ KU
OSU : @MU, UT, @ OU, A&M, KU, @ KSU

UT has 4 games against teams below them in the standings.....OSU and KSU have 2

hello 6th, vs Baylor in the conf tourney.  usually we get beat by ku 3 times in a year, now we'll have the opportunity to have Colorado and Baylor to that list.  thank god those games against OU were in january. 

Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: JKEYS on February 12, 2012, 03:15:58 PM
KSU :  KU, @ BU, @ MU, ISU, @A&M, OSU
UT    : @ OU, @ OSU, BU, @ TT, OU, @ KU
OSU : @MU, UT, @ OU, A&M, KU, @ KSU

UT has 4 games against teams below them in the standings.....OSU and KSU have 2

hello 6th, vs Baylor in the conf tourney.  usually we get beat by ku 3 times in a year, now we'll have the opportunity to have Colorado and Baylor to that list.  thank god those games against OU were in january. 



I think we beat Baylor in Waco, and also win the last three on our schedule...and make the NCAA's.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: bigwillie20 on February 12, 2012, 03:18:05 PM
KSU :  KU, @ BU, @ MU, ISU, @A&M, OSU
UT    : @ OU, @ OSU, BU, @ TT, OU, @ KU
OSU : @MU, UT, @ OU, A&M, KU, @ KSU

UT has 4 games against teams below them in the standings.....OSU and KSU have 2

hello 6th, vs Baylor in the conf tourney.  usually we get beat by ku 3 times in a year, now we'll have the opportunity to have Colorado and Baylor to that list.  thank god those games against OU were in january. 





I think we beat Baylor in Waco, and also win the last three on our schedule...and make the NCAA's.

 :lol:
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: kso_FAN on February 16, 2012, 08:05:25 AM
KSU :  @ BU, @ MU, ISU, @A&M, OSU
UT    : @ OSU, BU, @ TT, OU, @ KU
OSU : UT, @ OU, A&M, KU, @ KSU

5th will be tough, even if we win our last 3. We need UT to lose 3 in that scenario, and with their schedule and the way they've been playing that looks unlikely. We get OSU at our place and a win gives us the sweep and tiebreakers. If we tied with UT, I believe we have the tiebreaker via our win over Missouri, unless they beat KU in Lawrence.

To feel good about 5th, we need to win one of the next two, I'd say our best shot is Saturday.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: mcmwcat on February 16, 2012, 08:10:42 AM
dream semi final in KC means we need this finish

3. Baylor
4. ISU/UT
5. ISU/UT
6. KSU

may provide for a KSU/KU/ISU/MU Friday night.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: kso_FAN on February 16, 2012, 08:14:32 AM
dream semi final in KC means we need this finish

3. Baylor
4. ISU/UT
5. ISU/UT
6. KSU

may provide for a KSU/KU/ISU/MU Friday night.

I think ISU/BU swapping the 3/4 spots is just as likely (if not more) than ISU/UT swapping 4/5.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 16, 2012, 03:57:30 PM
One thing for sure, during this "run" K-State is likely going to play some tremendously boring basketball.

Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: OregonSmock on February 16, 2012, 04:57:46 PM
One thing for sure, during this "run" K-State is likely going to play some tremendously boring basketball.




Can't be any more boring than watching Colin Klein roll out to his right and fall forward for four yards on every single play. 
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on February 16, 2012, 06:39:54 PM
One thing for sure, during this "run" K-State is likely going to play some tremendously boring basketball.




Can't be any more boring than watching Colin Klein roll out to his right and fall forward for four yards on every single play. 


Tyler Lockett 100 yd KO returns work pretty well if you're worried about what's "exciting" and what's not.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on February 16, 2012, 06:41:10 PM
My thoughts on this thread can be entirely summed up by the following video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CzocBkrWpA
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 16, 2012, 08:24:23 PM
Isn't this a basketball board?   :dunno:
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: bigwillie20 on February 16, 2012, 08:36:21 PM
This has been a pretty great meltdown  :popcorn:
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: JKEYS on February 18, 2012, 02:54:51 PM
KSU :  KU, @ BU, @ MU, ISU, @A&M, OSU
UT    : @ OU, @ OSU, BU, @ TT, OU, @ KU
OSU : @MU, UT, @ OU, A&M, KU, @ KSU

UT has 4 games against teams below them in the standings.....OSU and KSU have 2

hello 6th, vs Baylor in the conf tourney.  usually we get beat by ku 3 times in a year, now we'll have the opportunity to have Colorado and Baylor to that list.  thank god those games against OU were in january. 





I think we beat Baylor in Waco, and also win the last three on our schedule...and make the NCAA's.

 :lol:

 :popcorn:

Looking forward to you leaving...for awhile.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: jmlynch1 on February 18, 2012, 03:48:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ffOrdVbC94
I was watching Semi Pro yesterday and it had a lot of  real life significance for me. Especially the first 30 seconds here.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: kso_FAN on February 18, 2012, 05:01:00 PM
Pokes!
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: sys on February 18, 2012, 05:49:57 PM
i'd much rather play bu than isu in the big 12 tourney.  about equally hard to beat and you get a lot more credit for beating bu than isu.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: kso_FAN on February 19, 2012, 07:55:07 AM
5th:
KSU :  @MU, ISU, @A&M, OSU
UT    : BU, @TT, OU, @KU
OSU : @OU, A&M, KU, @KSU

Yesterday's games made things much more interesting. OSU improved themselves, but they'll have a hard time winning more than 2 more games and we get them in the OOD. UT and us both likely have a loss with our road games @KU and @MU, so it comes down to the other three. UT has the easier road with OU and @TT, but BU in Austin could be interesting. None of our final 3 are guarantees by any means, but I like our chances to finish 10-8. If we tie with UT (assuming they lose to KU), we will own the tiebreaker via beating a team higher in the Big 12 rankings (MU) than UT did, which is the 2nd tiebreaker after head to head games.

3rd:
BU: @UT, OU, TT, @ISU
ISU: TT, @KSU, @MU, BU

The race for 3rd could come down to the final game in Ames, but ISU does have two tough road games.

kenpom projects it this way:
BU 12-6
ISU 11-7
UT 10-8
KSU 9-9  :frown:
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 19, 2012, 02:39:01 PM
I don't think it matters anymore, but Lunardi has KU, Missouri, Baylor, ISU, EMAW, and Texas making the tourney.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Cartierfor3 on February 19, 2012, 02:41:31 PM
I don't think it matters anymore, but Lunardi has KU, Missouri, Baylor, ISU, EMAW, and Texas making the tourney.

Well this ain't no peanut butter and jelly conference.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: sys on February 19, 2012, 03:49:39 PM
I don't think it matters anymore, but Lunardi has KU, Missouri, Baylor, ISU, EMAW, and Texas making the tourney.

5 or more games to play, none of which are against texas tech.  it all matters.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: michigancat on February 19, 2012, 05:31:40 PM
I don't think it matters anymore, but Lunardi has KU, Missouri, Baylor, ISU, EMAW, and Texas making the tourney.

he had that before beating Baylor. We weren't even in his last four in.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: catzacker on February 19, 2012, 06:55:35 PM
I don't think it matters anymore, but Lunardi has KU, Missouri, Baylor, ISU, EMAW, and Texas making the tourney.

5 or more games to play, none of which are against texas tech.  it all matters.

This.  We've lost to ou twice, we aren't above anything.  our remaining schedule is still pretty difficult.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Fuktard on February 19, 2012, 07:14:05 PM
My neck is sore from all the strutting and collar popping since yesterday afternoon.   Starting to feel my age.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: kso_FAN on February 21, 2012, 09:42:39 PM
How about 3rd?
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: kso_FAN on February 21, 2012, 09:44:50 PM
Dang, we pretty much sealed the tiebreaker for the Clones.

And now I regret cheering for Baylor last night...
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 21, 2012, 09:50:13 PM
Dang, we pretty much sealed the tiebreaker for the Clones.

And now I regret cheering for Baylor last night...

Feels good to have cheered for them last night. More faith in the Cats than _FAN, so that's fun.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: kso_FAN on February 21, 2012, 09:51:10 PM
Feels good to have cheered for them last night. More faith in the Cats than _FAN, so that's fun.

Yep. Times like these I love being wrong.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: 0.42 on February 21, 2012, 09:55:13 PM
Dang, we pretty much sealed the tiebreaker for the Clones.

And now I regret cheering for Baylor last night...

THEN WE'LL JUST HAVE TO WIN THE WHOLE rough ridin' (4th place) THING
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: j-dub on February 21, 2012, 10:08:42 PM
Feels good to have cheered for them last night. More faith in the Cats than _FAN, so that's fun.

Yep. Times like these I love being wrong.

can't believe i was more confident about tonight than _FAN.

i was getting pretty annoying by the time ku day rolled around..
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: steve dave on February 22, 2012, 07:45:17 AM
We are looking good for either 4 or 5.  It is a meaningless distinction though as they play each other in the second round of the B12.  If we win out and ISU loses to MU & Baylor we are 4th.  If ISU gets one of those we are tied and I'm not sure what the tiebreaker is at that point.  They beat KU so they get 4?
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: mocat on February 22, 2012, 07:47:37 AM
We are looking good for either 4 or 5.  It is a meaningless distinction though as they play each other in the second round of the B12.  If we win out and ISU loses to MU & Baylor we are 4th.  If ISU gets one of those we are tied and I'm not sure what the tiebreaker is at that point.  They beat KU so they get 4?

I want to keep the streak alive
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: MakeItRain on February 22, 2012, 07:50:19 AM
We are looking good for either 4 or 5.  It is a meaningless distinction though as they play each other in the second round of the B12.  If we win out and ISU loses to MU & Baylor we are 4th.  If ISU gets one of those we are tied and I'm not sure what the tiebreaker is at that point.  They beat KU so they get 4?

I want to keep the streak alive

If Mizzou and KU tie, Mizzou would in all likelihood be awarded the tie breaker for first giving us the tie breaker for fourth
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: kso_FAN on February 22, 2012, 07:50:37 AM
They beat KU so they get 4?

Yes, if we tie with ISU, they own the tiebreaker. But we both get 4th place trophies.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: kso_FAN on February 22, 2012, 07:56:39 AM
And MIR is correct above, if MU would sweep KU, then we would have the tiebreaker for 4th.
Title: Re: The Battle for 5th
Post by: jmlynch1 on February 22, 2012, 10:49:47 AM
I would rather be relegated to meaningless 5th seed than see Mizzou win a Big 12 title.