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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: Kat Kid on December 25, 2011, 11:54:21 PM

Title: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Kat Kid on December 25, 2011, 11:54:21 PM
Peggy Po’s

For THREEEE!- This is what it looks like when we are shooting a reasonable percentage.  Coupled with our offensive rebounding and defense this will be what allows us to control games.  McOrebs is close to regaining his title.  Sprads is Sprads here.

Jam Sam made the All-Tournament Team.  11 and 8.  Does so much that is not noticed.  His passing and ability to run offense, coupled with Gipson, is a strength for the team.  His defense off the ball has improved.  He understands how to get his man uncomfortable and off his spots much better now without giving up cheap fouls.  He has been playing much more consistently on both ends and consistently stands out as an energetic and disruptive presence on the boards.  He must be such a bitch to play against.  The free throw percentage looks like it may stick near 70%.  Good for Jamar.  It is rewarding to see this.

JO DOB!

#teamangel- Overall, there should be no complaints about his play during this tournament.  I wasn’t there to praise him, so let me do it now and say that he played two fantastic games, prior to tonight.  He deserves better than just neg’s.

McOrebs with a career high! 10-11 FG. 2-3 for 3.  6 boards.  28 points.  MVP.  Needs the swagger back, is it back?  He’s certainly getting more confident driving in to the lane for short pull-ups and runners.  The Beach cuts it to 11 and then there is McOrebs with the backcut, then the tip on the rebound, then the dribble drive for the and-1!  I mean, this is what we’ve been talking about!  Still not ready to reclaim the crown because after that....he went silent for awhile.  He needs to demand the ball, but he doesn’t.  He lets the game come to him to a fault.  He is not a role player and everyone seems to simply allow this to continue.  If you look at how he got the ball, everything broke right for him.  He only took 11 shots!  WTF?  Amazing JYC rebound and put back on his own foul shot.  He and Gipson need to be getting more touches, it is inexcusable that a good number of McOreb’s opportunities are created by the rim.  But this is Peggy Po's!  What a perfect time for things to come together.  Is this the birth of Rod 2.0?  DARE I?

Sprads is Sprads is Sprads his defense is noteworthy.  Drew a charge.  His offense is important to this team.  He is absolutely fearless about taking 3's, but he almost never forces a shot.  His free throws down the stretch are cliche at this point.  He is good.  Some over value him, others undervalue him.  I try to just value him.

The zone it is still sloppy and we suffer enormously on the boards, but it is a serviceable changeup that will matter in games for us.  Good a time as any to trot it out there.

Nancy Neg’s

#teamangel is back under 33% from 3.  Angelito worked so hard to get his head above water, then the salt water rushed in.  His ball handling was strangely sloppy.  No turnovers, but noticeable.  I’ve outsourced my criticisms to the master, Frank.  Angelito is going to be really good and I’m hoping that he is on when it matters (which is pretty much nowish).  Poco a poco.

I think teams have figured out Gipson's post repertoire. He is boarding a little bit better, but is still bad at getting position.  JO is so terrible at rebounding Gip looks better by comparison, but he needs to improve this.  We really need him to pass out of the post and turn himself in to a weapon again.

Clearly exactly what it is that Southwell does will never show up in the box score. The Bobs would fire his ass.

Understatement:  Jones is not taking advantage of his minutes.

Scapegoat watch:

New feature debuts tonight just in time for conference play when the heat really gets turned up!

Goats Up!

JO-  “3 rebounds?!  HE’S SEVEN FEET TALL!”

Angel- “OMG!LOL!11 at all those #teamangels!”

Jamar- “Only 8 rebounds?  God damnit Jamar.”

Goats Down!

McGruder-  “FOORRRR THREEEE!!  (high five)
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Lynchmobrules on December 25, 2011, 11:59:41 PM
I'm glad you are back to doing this.  Much better than the thread from the other night.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: MakeItRain on December 26, 2011, 12:00:04 AM
PP: Noel Schultz
Quote
kstate_1stlady Noel Schulz
like playing fb in Jan, we manage @kstate_pres: We drove them very carefully! “@jhawkguy:How did they get all those farm trucks to Hawaii?

NN: Frank's experimental defenses and line-ups.  I realize that it's LBSU's fault for sucking (looking at you Casper) but I got a little frustrated
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Pendergast on December 26, 2011, 12:02:19 AM

Clearly exactly what it is that Southwell does will never show up in the box score.


The eff is this?
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: MakeItRain on December 26, 2011, 12:03:47 AM

Clearly exactly what it is that Southwell does will never show up in the box score.


The eff is this?

I'm three games away from starting a thread about how much he sucks
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Skipper44 on December 26, 2011, 12:05:07 AM
I see a great future for Goat Watch (sponsored by Kansas Meat Goat Growers Association)
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Pendergast on December 26, 2011, 12:06:24 AM

Clearly exactly what it is that Southwell does will never show up in the box score.


The eff is this?

I'm three games away from starting a thread about how much he sucks

Fair enough, it just reads like a russian kid with downs composed it.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: DQ12 on December 26, 2011, 12:07:37 AM
"PP/NN" PP/NN


PP: These are back.  What a blessed Christmas gift.  
PP: Goatwatch.  What a great idea.

NN: Southwell needs to be on Goatwatch.
NN: Your sentence about Southwell took me a while to figure out, but it made sense, and is absolutely correct.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: 8manpick on December 26, 2011, 12:09:13 AM

Clearly exactly what it is that Southwell does will never show up in the box score.


The eff is this?

I'm three games away from starting a thread about how much he sucks
Please do, every time a thread gets started about someone sucking, they read the thread and are motivated to play awesome.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: MakeItRain on December 26, 2011, 12:10:54 AM

Clearly exactly what it is that Southwell does will never show up in the box score.


The eff is this?

I'm three games away from starting a thread about how much he sucks
Please do, every time a thread gets started about someone sucking, they read the thread and are motivated to play awesome.

I just don't want to be the one to do it.  If it happens before three games I can be the voice of reason and then be right when he inevitably does well.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Lynchmobrules on December 26, 2011, 12:11:23 AM

I think teams have figured out Gipson's post repertoire. He is boarding a little bit better, but is still bad at getting position.  JO is so terrible at rebounding Gip looks better by comparison, but he needs to improve this.  We really need him to pass out of the post and turn himself in to a weapon again.

I think this is obvious too.  He doesn't do much but turn over his right shoulder to shoot a left handed hook.  There were a couple times his defender was trying to take this move away from him and he still dribbled out away from the basket to get around him and shoot his left handed hook.  Once he has to ability to turn over both shoulders with that move it will be much easier for him to score.  
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Skipper44 on December 26, 2011, 12:13:22 AM

Clearly exactly what it is that Southwell does will never show up in the box score.


The eff is this?

I'm three games away from starting a thread about how much he sucks

Fair enough, it just reads like a russian kid with downs composed it.
I enjoyed his tip attempt that resulted in a over the back call.  He will be great to have against Middleton twice, right
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: kso_FAN on December 26, 2011, 12:13:37 AM
PP: Noel Schultz
Quote
kstate_1stlady Noel Schulz
like playing fb in Jan, we manage @kstate_pres: We drove them very carefully! “@jhawkguy:How did they get all those farm trucks to Hawaii?

NN: Frank's experimental defenses and line-ups.  I realize that it's LBSU's fault for sucking (looking at you Casper) but I got a little frustrated

I thought the same. I really like the 3-2, but I thought we stayed with it too long. And it wasn't doing what he typically wants; forcing opponents to use 20 or more seconds of shot clock before a shot.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Ira Hayes on December 26, 2011, 12:14:50 AM
Southwell is a less athletic Dom Sutton.

Love Dom.  Love Southwell.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: MakeItRain on December 26, 2011, 12:19:06 AM

I think teams have figured out Gipson's post repertoire. He is boarding a little bit better, but is still bad at getting position.  JO is so terrible at rebounding Gip looks better by comparison, but he needs to improve this.  We really need him to pass out of the post and turn himself in to a weapon again.

I think this is obvious too.  He doesn't do much but turn over his right shoulder to shoot a left handed hook.  There were a couple times his defender was trying to take this move away from him and he still dribbled out away from the basket to get around him and shoot his left handed hook.  Once he has to ability to turn over both shoulders with that move it will be much easier for him to score.  

As stated in chat I really don't think anything is different with his shot other than it isn't falling.  When he had his really good four game stretch we was taking plenty of off balanced backwards throwing awkward slop, they were just going in.  I'm more concerned by him reverting to his rebounding, or lack thereof, from the first few games.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: chum1 on December 26, 2011, 12:19:54 AM
Southwell will always be an enigma for the HBBIQers of goEMAW.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Lynchmobrules on December 26, 2011, 12:25:24 AM

I think teams have figured out Gipson's post repertoire. He is boarding a little bit better, but is still bad at getting position.  JO is so terrible at rebounding Gip looks better by comparison, but he needs to improve this.  We really need him to pass out of the post and turn himself in to a weapon again.

I think this is obvious too.  He doesn't do much but turn over his right shoulder to shoot a left handed hook.  There were a couple times his defender was trying to take this move away from him and he still dribbled out away from the basket to get around him and shoot his left handed hook.  Once he has to ability to turn over both shoulders with that move it will be much easier for him to score.  

As stated in chat I really don't think anything is different with his shot other than it isn't falling.  When he had his really good four game stretch we was taking plenty of off balanced backwards throwing awkward slop, they were just going in.  I'm more concerned by him reverting to his rebounding, or lack thereof, from the first few games.

I understand that.  But even though he was throwing up some crazy shots then, he wasn't having to fight as much to get to his right shoulder as he is now.  They will eventually start falling once he is able to adjust to having to fight though that.  He is young, but he will be okay.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Fuktard on December 26, 2011, 12:33:53 AM
PP: Noel Schultz
Quote
kstate_1stlady Noel Schulz
like playing fb in Jan, we manage @kstate_pres: We drove them very carefully! “@jhawkguy:How did they get all those farm trucks to Hawaii?

NN: Frank's experimental defenses and line-ups.  I realize that it's LBSU's fault for sucking (looking at you Casper) but I got a little frustrated

I thought the same. I really like the 3-2, but I thought we stayed with it too long. And it wasn't doing what he typically wants; forcing opponents to use 20 or more seconds of shot clock before a shot.

we must have been watching different games...the zone took the air out of the ball especially in the last 3 minutes.  I commented several times that LB was having to use a TON of clock to get a shot.  I thought the zone worked fantastic and I LOVE the fact that Frank has added it to his game.  The only negative is our rebounding when we are in it is not up to par.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on December 26, 2011, 01:11:10 AM
PP: Irving.

- His on ball D was nasty, made a future pro piss his pants out there.
- Tough take and finish in paint.
- Nice mid-range jumper to open 2nd half.

Very solid piece of the puzzle in what I thought was our best overall game of the year.

Progress has been impressive, things looking up for the KSU Cats.  :thumbs:
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: sys on December 26, 2011, 01:19:07 AM
- Nice mid-range jumper to open 2nd half.

c'mon southie.   :pray:
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on December 26, 2011, 01:24:41 AM
Hey, Southie had a nice one in the 1st half tonight, it was sort of a half jumper/floater but looked good though.

The most frustrating thing about Southie, for me at least, is that he can look like an absolutely amazing passer sometimes, then on some of his passes, he looks like a 6th grader.

Hoping experience will lead to consistency.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: j-von on December 26, 2011, 01:28:21 AM
PP: Irving.


Irving is a major PP tonight.  He seems to be really comfortable in transition which is badly needed on this team.  Never thought he'd progress as far as he has.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: kougar24 on December 26, 2011, 01:35:06 AM
PP: Irving.

THANK YOU.

P. Diddy was fantastic tonight.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Dub on December 26, 2011, 03:59:31 AM
Southwell is a less athletic Dom Sutton.

Love Dom.  Love Southwell.

I disagree.  Different kind of players, same understanding of how to play the game.  But still Love Dom.  Love Southwell.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: SdK on December 26, 2011, 04:05:53 AM
Southwell is a less athletic Dom Sutton.

Love Dom.  Love Southwell.

I disagree.  Different kind of players, same understanding of how to play the game.  But still Love Dom.  Love Southwell.

Dom, as evidenced by his youtube videos, had that attitude that would piss players off mentally in addition to his guarding abilities. Southwell is too adorable and smiley and lip licking to pull that off.

Edit: I think Dom would definitely be a 6-game suspension a la Xavier/Cincy. Southwell, I don't think would face any suspension.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: kso_FAN on December 26, 2011, 08:35:52 AM
PP: Noel Schultz
Quote
kstate_1stlady Noel Schulz
like playing fb in Jan, we manage @kstate_pres: We drove them very carefully! €œ@jhawkguy:How did they get all those farm trucks to Hawaii?

NN: Frank's experimental defenses and line-ups.  I realize that it's LBSU's fault for sucking (looking at you Casper) but I got a little frustrated

I thought the same. I really like the 3-2, but I thought we stayed with it too long. And it wasn't doing what he typically wants; forcing opponents to use 20 or more seconds of shot clock before a shot.

we must have been watching different games...the zone took the air out of the ball especially in the last 3 minutes.  I commented several times that LB was having to use a TON of clock to get a shot.  I thought the zone worked fantastic and I LOVE the fact that Frank has added it to his game.  The only negative is our rebounding when we are in it is not up to par.

Late in the game it started to slow them down again, but there were also times they would just drive the ball early and get inside for a kick, a quick shot, or draw a foul. Plus as you said our rebounding put of it was terrible. I didn't think it was awful, I just thought we went to it early and stayed in it a long time.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: catzacker on December 26, 2011, 08:49:51 AM
PP

 - Irving:  just fantastic on both ends.  
 - Figgs:  I appreciate a man who wears an undershirt under a low first button shirt because he knows he can't let the tiger out some others can. There's some humbleness to that, and I appreciate it.  
 - McGruds:  I've always loved you.  
 - Jamar: a very nice game.  Didn't try to do too much (4:1 A:T) but did exactly what he should (11pts, 8rb),  and was in the game to do it (3 fouls)
 - Will:  I thought he'd look like Andy Dufrane fighting off the sisters out there, but he did a nice job.

NN

Gip:  right hand bro, right hand. Also, Don't like him in blacks because I can't see his nipples.
Angel:  didn't do very much bad, but not much good, at all either.  maybe he's a Melby Meh instead of a Negative Nancy?


Overall, imo, probably the best effort I've seen out of this team.  Was blown away with our perimeter defense on Casper and that was the best "offense" I think we ran all year.  Granted, when McGruds is going to hit 90% of his FG's, we're going to look good, but still.  

bubble team.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: sys on December 26, 2011, 09:49:18 AM
i'm surprised that zacker is capable of seeing, much less typing, peggies.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Pete on December 26, 2011, 10:10:37 AM
Southwell is a less athletic Dom Sutton.

Love Dom.  Love Southwell.

Some speculated when we landed Southwell that he'd be another Hakeem. I said "will take."  It's turning out that way, and I still still "will take."
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Kat Kid on December 26, 2011, 10:24:02 AM
Southwell is a less athletic Dom Sutton.

Love Dom.  Love Southwell.

Some speculated when we landed Southwell that he'd be another Hakeem. I said "will take."  It's turning out that way, and I still still "will take."

Is it?  Akeem Wright was/is a better defender than Shane.  I don't think there should be real discussion about this.  Now granted I'm not capable of remembering every nuance of Akeem's career and their soph/soph stat sheets kind of look similar, but I have to believe Shane's stats are helped by the players around him.  The last thing I'll complain about.  Shane does not rebound.  This is probably my biggest problem with him.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=shane-southwell&chart=steals_avg&i=1&p1=akeem-wright#chart (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=shane-southwell&chart=steals_avg&i=1&p1=akeem-wright#chart)
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: sys on December 26, 2011, 10:40:12 AM
wright was an amazing rebounder and defender.  people are underremembering him.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Kat Kid on December 26, 2011, 10:57:37 AM
wright was an amazing rebounder and defender.  people are underremembering him.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: yosh on December 26, 2011, 11:44:44 AM
Southwell is a less athletic Dom Sutton.

Love Dom.  Love Southwell.

Some speculated when we landed Southwell that he'd be another Hakeem. I said "will take."  It's turning out that way, and I still still "will take."

Is it?  Akeem Wright was/is a better defender than Shane.  I don't think there should be real discussion about this.  Now granted I'm not capable of remembering every nuance of Akeem's career and their soph/soph stat sheets kind of look similar, but I have to believe Shane's stats are helped by the players around him.  The last thing I'll complain about.  Shane does not rebound.  This is probably my biggest problem with him.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=shane-southwell&chart=steals_avg&i=1&p1=akeem-wright#chart (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=shane-southwell&chart=steals_avg&i=1&p1=akeem-wright#chart)

pretty sure those are Akeem's SR year stats, unless it's from JUCO or something.  I think the Freshman year stats from that site would be Akeems JR year....but yeah, if your point was that Akeem Wright was slightly better as a SR, than Southwell is as a Soph, then fantastic work.   :dubious:
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: kso_FAN on December 26, 2011, 11:57:20 AM
Southwell is a less athletic Dom Sutton.

Love Dom.  Love Southwell.

Some speculated when we landed Southwell that he'd be another Hakeem. I said "will take."  It's turning out that way, and I still still "will take."

Is it?  Akeem Wright was/is a better defender than Shane.  I don't think there should be real discussion about this.  Now granted I'm not capable of remembering every nuance of Akeem's career and their soph/soph stat sheets kind of look similar, but I have to believe Shane's stats are helped by the players around him.  The last thing I'll complain about.  Shane does not rebound.  This is probably my biggest problem with him.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=shane-southwell&chart=steals_avg&i=1&p1=akeem-wright#chart (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=shane-southwell&chart=steals_avg&i=1&p1=akeem-wright#chart)

pretty sure those are Akeem's SR year stats, unless it's from JUCO or something.  I think the Freshman year stats from that site would be Akeems JR year....but yeah, if your point was that Akeem Wright was slightly better as a SR, than Southwell is as a Soph, then fantastic work.   :dubious:

Agree completely, Wright/Shane comparisons are tough because we only saw Wright as a JR/SR and with two different coaching styles. Wright had played 1-3 in JUCO, with a lot of PG duties. They are different, but I still think comparisons to Wright are more accurate than comparisons to Sutton.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: _33 on December 26, 2011, 12:27:44 PM
wright was an amazing rebounder and defender.  people are underremembering him.

Remember when he shut down Thomas Gardner? Awesome.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: _33 on December 26, 2011, 12:38:47 PM
wright was an amazing rebounder and defender.  people are underremembering him.

Remember when he shut down Thomas Gardner? Awesome.

I tried to start an "Akeem" chant that night but no one would join in. Then later I started a pretty good slow clap.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Kat Kid on December 26, 2011, 01:02:34 PM
Southwell is a less athletic Dom Sutton.

Love Dom.  Love Southwell.

Some speculated when we landed Southwell that he'd be another Hakeem. I said "will take."  It's turning out that way, and I still still "will take."

Is it?  Akeem Wright was/is a better defender than Shane.  I don't think there should be real discussion about this.  Now granted I'm not capable of remembering every nuance of Akeem's career and their soph/soph stat sheets kind of look similar, but I have to believe Shane's stats are helped by the players around him.  The last thing I'll complain about.  Shane does not rebound.  This is probably my biggest problem with him.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=shane-southwell&chart=steals_avg&i=1&p1=akeem-wright#chart (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=shane-southwell&chart=steals_avg&i=1&p1=akeem-wright#chart)

pretty sure those are Akeem's SR year stats, unless it's from JUCO or something.  I think the Freshman year stats from that site would be Akeems JR year....but yeah, if your point was that Akeem Wright was slightly better as a SR, than Southwell is as a Soph, then fantastic work.   :dubious:

Yeah, I realized the soph/soph thing as I typed it and thought I edited.  Sorry about that.

As far as the comparison goes?  I think the rebounding is legitimate concern, I think the defense is not as good.  If we're supposed to be looking "beyond the box score" for Shane's value, then this is what we talk about.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Kat Kid on December 26, 2011, 01:06:37 PM
In other disturbing news......

This statistical comparison is still unflattering as hell to McOreb's.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&i=1&p1=gilson-dejesus (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&i=1&p1=gilson-dejesus)
Title: Re: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Pete on December 26, 2011, 01:26:37 PM
Wait, so it's Akeem and not Hakeem?
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on December 26, 2011, 01:37:36 PM
In other disturbing news......

This statistical comparison is still unflattering as hell to McOreb's.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&i=1&p1=gilson-dejesus (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&i=1&p1=gilson-dejesus)

Another case where a player's JC status is throwing the statsheet comparo for a loop. That's actually DeJesus' SR yr. DeJesus really did develop into a reliable spot up shooter from deep and tough rebounder that year, but you've also got to consider the frontline he was playing alongside consisted of Pasco, Seibrandt, and Hayden - more boards to go around with that crew than Samuels, Henriquez, and Gip. Plus, Dejesus basically had NOTHING off the dribble, not that Gruds is looking like Chris Paul out there but he's done a nice job of getting into the lane lately and getting out and finishing in transition.

Gruds shooting troubles so far have been worrisome, but hopefully he's turned a corner. Can't really expect 10-11 every game but would really like to see him creep into mid 30's from 3. His JYC game though, is and always has been top notch.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: yosh on December 26, 2011, 01:40:24 PM
Southwell is a less athletic Dom Sutton.

Love Dom.  Love Southwell.

Some speculated when we landed Southwell that he'd be another Hakeem. I said "will take."  It's turning out that way, and I still still "will take."

Is it?  Akeem Wright was/is a better defender than Shane.  I don't think there should be real discussion about this.  Now granted I'm not capable of remembering every nuance of Akeem's career and their soph/soph stat sheets kind of look similar, but I have to believe Shane's stats are helped by the players around him.  The last thing I'll complain about.  Shane does not rebound.  This is probably my biggest problem with him.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=shane-southwell&chart=steals_avg&i=1&p1=akeem-wright#chart (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=shane-southwell&chart=steals_avg&i=1&p1=akeem-wright#chart)

pretty sure those are Akeem's SR year stats, unless it's from JUCO or something.  I think the Freshman year stats from that site would be Akeems JR year....but yeah, if your point was that Akeem Wright was slightly better as a SR, than Southwell is as a Soph, then fantastic work.   :dubious:

Yeah, I realized the soph/soph thing as I typed it and thought I edited.  Sorry about that.

As far as the comparison goes?  I think the rebounding is legitimate concern, I think the defense is not as good.  If we're supposed to be looking "beyond the box score" for Shane's value, then this is what we talk about.
 

I have no problem looking at the box score and seeing value.    

 If Shane can manage to not get Franked, I would suspect his and AWs upperclassmen years will be pretty similar.

Watch this period of timeon ESPN3 when you get the chance.  If you still don't see any value in Southwell, I suppose you might not ever.

Quote
SUB IN : Southwell, Shane                       15:25
SUB OUT: McGruder, Rodney                       15:25
MISSED 3 PTR by McGruder, Rodney                15:18
REBOUND (OFF) by Southwell, Shane               15:18
MISSED JUMPER by Samuels, Jamar                 15:13              REBOUND (DEF) by Lang, Cedrick
                                                14:58   8-11  V 3  GOOD! LAYUP by Lang, Cedrick [PNT]
                                                14:58              ASSIST by Streeter, Jacques
                                                14:31              FOUL by McCulley, Gabriel (P2T3)
SUB IN : Henriquez, Jordan                      14:31              SUB IN : Bohannon, John
SUB OUT: Gipson, Thomas                         14:31
GOOD! FT SHOT by Henriquez, Jordan              14:30   9-11  V 2  FOUL by Bohannon, John (P1T4)
MISSED FT SHOT by Henriquez, Jordan             14:30              REBOUND (DEF) by Bohannon, John
FOUL by Henriquez, Jordan (P1T4)                14:09   9-12  V 3  GOOD! FT SHOT by Lang, Cedrick
                                                14:09   9-13  V 4  GOOD! FT SHOT by Lang, Cedrick
SUB IN : Gipson, Thomas                         14:09
SUB IN : Irving, Martavious                     14:09
SUB OUT: Samuels, Jamar                         14:09
SUB OUT: Spradling, Will                        14:09
GOOD! JUMPER by Irving, Martavious [PNT]        13:55  11-13  V 2
                                                13:33              TURNOVR by Bohannon, John
MISSED JUMPER by Southwell, Shane               13:17              REBOUND (DEF) by Lang, Cedrick
                                                12:53  11-16  V 5  GOOD! 3 PTR by Perez, Michael
                                                12:53              ASSIST by Bohannon, John
MISSED JUMPER by Rodriguez, Angel               12:26
REBOUND (OFF) by Gipson, Thomas                 12:26
GOOD! JUMPER by Gipson, Thomas [PNT]            12:23  13-16  V 3
FOUL by Gipson, Thomas (P2T5)                   11:59
                                                11:59              TIMEOUT MEDIA
                                                11:59              MISSED FT SHOT by Streeter, Jacques
                                                11:59              REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)
                                                11:59  13-17  V 4  GOOD! FT SHOT by Streeter, Jacques
SUB IN : Samuels, Jamar                         11:59
SUB IN : Spradling, Will                        11:59
SUB IN : McGruder, Rodney                       11:59
SUB OUT: Gipson, Thomas                         11:59
SUB OUT: Irving, Martavious                     11:59
SUB OUT: Rodriguez, Angel                       11:59
MISSED JUMPER by McGruder, Rodney               11:29
REBOUND (OFF) by Samuels, Jamar                 11:29
GOOD! FT SHOT by Samuels, Jamar                 11:27  14-17  V 3  FOUL by Lang, Cedrick (P1T5)
GOOD! FT SHOT by Samuels, Jamar                 11:27  15-17  V 2
                                                11:16              TURNOVR by Streeter, Jacques
GOOD! JUMPER by Henriquez, Jordan [PNT]         10:59  17-17  T 4
ASSIST by Southwell, Shane                      10:59
FOUL by McGruder, Rodney (P2T6)                 10:51              MISSED FT SHOT by Streeter, Jacques
                                                10:51              REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)
                                                10:51  17-18  V 1  GOOD! FT SHOT by Streeter, Jacques
SUB IN : Irving, Martavious                     10:51
SUB OUT: McGruder, Rodney                       10:51
MISSED 3 PTR by Irving, Martavious              10:35              REBOUND (DEF) by Bohannon, John
                                                10:10              TURNOVR by Bohannon, John
                                                10:10              FOUL by Bohannon, John (P2T6)
                                                10:10              SUB IN : Perry, Kevin
                                                10:10              SUB OUT: Bohannon, John
MISSED JUMPER by Samuels, Jamar                 09:51
REBOUND (OFF) by Samuels, Jamar                 09:51
MISSED LAYUP by Spradling, Will                 09:45
REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)                     09:45
GOOD! FT SHOT by Spradling, Will                09:31  18-18  T 5  FOUL by Perry, Kevin (P1T7)
GOOD! FT SHOT by Spradling, Will                09:31  19-18  H 1
                                                09:31              SUB IN : McCulley, Gabriel
                                                09:31              SUB OUT: Perry, Kevin
                                                09:24              TURNOVR by Perez, Michael
STEAL by Irving, Martavious                     09:22
MISSED LAYUP by Irving, Martavious              09:20              REBOUND (DEF) by McCulley, Gabriel
                                                09:18              TURNOVR by McCulley, Gabriel
SUB IN : Jones, Jeremy                          09:18
SUB OUT: Irving, Martavious                     09:18
GOOD! JUMPER by Jones, Jeremy                   09:14  21-18  H 3
ASSIST by Spradling, Will                       09:14
                                                09:00              TURNOVR by (TEAM)
MISSED JUMPER by Samuels, Jamar                 08:42
REBOUND (OFF) by Henriquez, Jordan              08:42
MISSED FT SHOT by Henriquez, Jordan             08:40              FOUL by Perez, Michael (P1T8)
REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)                     08:40
GOOD! FT SHOT by Henriquez, Jordan              08:40  22-18  H 4
                                                08:40              SUB IN : Cooper, C.J.
FOUL by Spradling, Will (P1T7)                  08:14  22-19  H 3  GOOD! FT SHOT by Streeter, Jacques
                                                08:14  22-20  H 2  GOOD! FT SHOT by Streeter, Jacques
SUB IN : Rodriguez, Angel                       08:14
SUB OUT: Spradling, Will                        08:14
GOOD! JUMPER by Southwell, Shane [PNT]          08:01  24-20  H 4
FOUL by Jones, Jeremy (P1T8)                    07:39
                                                07:39              TIMEOUT MEDIA
                                                07:39              MISSED FT SHOT by Lang, Cedrick
                                                07:39              REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)
REBOUND (DEF) by Samuels, Jamar                 07:39              MISSED FT SHOT by Lang, Cedrick
MISSED JUMPER by Southwell, Shane               07:21
REBOUND (OFF) by Samuels, Jamar                 07:21
GOOD! JUMPER by Henriquez, Jordan [PNT]         07:09  26-20  H 6
ASSIST by Southwell, Shane                      07:09
                                                06:47  26-22  H 4  GOOD! LAYUP by Lang, Cedrick [PNT]
                                                06:47              ASSIST by Cooper, C.J.
MISSED JUMPER by Southwell, Shane               06:23
REBOUND (OFF) by (TEAM)                         06:23
GOOD! 3 PTR by Rodriguez, Angel                 06:18  29-22  H 7
ASSIST by Southwell, Shane                      06:18
                                                05:55              MISSED JUMPER by Cooper, C.J.
                                                05:55              REBOUND (OFF) by McCulley, Gabriel
FOUL by Henriquez, Jordan (P2T9)                05:53  29-23  H 6  GOOD! FT SHOT by McCulley, Gabriel
                                                05:53  29-24  H 5  GOOD! FT SHOT by McCulley, Gabriel
SUB IN : Ojeleye, Victor                        05:53              SUB IN : Washburn, Julian
SUB OUT: Henriquez, Jordan                      05:53
MISSED JUMPER by Samuels, Jamar                 05:23
REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)                     05:23
GOOD! FT SHOT by Samuels, Jamar                 05:18  30-24  H 6  FOUL by Lang, Cedrick (P2T9)
GOOD! FT SHOT by Samuels, Jamar                 05:18  31-24  H 7
SUB IN : Diaz, Adrian                           05:18              SUB IN : Bohannon, John
SUB OUT: Samuels, Jamar                         05:18
FOUL by Southwell, Shane (P1T10)                05:07  31-25  H 6  GOOD! FT SHOT by McCulley, Gabriel
REBOUND (DEF) by Diaz, Adrian                   05:07              MISSED FT SHOT by McCulley, Gabriel
MISSED JUMPER by Jones, Jeremy                  04:39
REBOUND (OFF) by Southwell, Shane               04:39
GOOD! FT SHOT by Rodriguez, Angel               04:33  32-25  H 7  FOUL by Bohannon, John (P3T10)
GOOD! FT SHOT by Rodriguez, Angel               04:33  33-25  H 8
                                                04:33              SUB IN : Lang, Cedrick
                                                04:33              SUB IN : Perez, Michael
                                                04:33              SUB OUT: Bohannon, John
                                                04:23              TURNOVR by Lang, Cedrick
                                                04:23              FOUL by Lang, Cedrick (P3T11)
GOOD! 3 PTR by Jones, Jeremy                    04:04  36-25  H 11
ASSIST by Southwell, Shane                      04:04
                                                03:46  36-28  H 8  GOOD! 3 PTR by Cooper, C.J.
                                                03:46              ASSIST by Perez, Michael
GOOD! 3 PTR by Jones, Jeremy                    03:23  39-28  H 11
ASSIST by Southwell, Shane                      03:23
FOUL by Ojeleye, Victor (P1T11)                 02:49
                                                02:49              TIMEOUT MEDIA
                                                02:49  39-29  H 10 GOOD! FT SHOT by Lang, Cedrick
                                                02:49  39-30  H 9  GOOD! FT SHOT by Lang, Cedrick
                                                02:49              SUB IN : Streeter, Jacques
                                                02:49              SUB OUT: Lang, Cedrick
TURNOVR by Rodriguez, Angel                     02:38
                                                02:24              TURNOVR by Cooper, C.J.
SUB IN : Spradling, Will                        02:24
SUB OUT: Southwell, Shane                       02:24
GOOD! LAYUP by Spradling, Will [PNT]            02:07  41-30  H 11
FOUL by Ojeleye, Victor (P2T12)                 01:55  41-31  H 10 GOOD! FT SHOT by McCulley, Gabriel
                                                01:55  41-32  H 9  GOOD! FT SHOT by McCulley, Gabriel
SUB IN : Samuels, Jamar                         01:55
SUB OUT: Ojeleye, Victor                        01:55
TURNOVR by Jones, Jeremy                        01:38
SUB IN : Southwell, Shane                       01:38
SUB OUT: Jones, Jeremy                          01:38
REBOUND (DEF) by Samuels, Jamar                 01:29              MISSED JUMPER by Streeter, Jacques
GOOD! JUMPER by Diaz, Adrian [PNT]              01:04  43-32  H 11
REBOUND (DEF) by Samuels, Jamar                 00:46              MISSED JUMPER by Streeter, Jacques
TIMEOUT 30sec                                   00:43
GOOD! DUNK by Diaz, Adrian [PNT]                00:18  45-32  H 13
ASSIST by Southwell, Shane                      00:18
REBOUND (DEF) by Southwell, Shane               00:04              MISSED 3 PTR by Washburn, Julian
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on December 26, 2011, 01:52:55 PM
Great digging Yosh, that was definitely a stretch during the UTEP game where he looked like Evan Turner*, which makes his occasional sloppy decision making all the more frustrating, like most players, I think he's just got to learn when it's there and when not to force it.

*Don't think Southie is ever going to have Turner's scoring ability, but I do believe in some of Shane's brighter moments he presents some of the same "point forward" qualities as Turner.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: chum1 on December 26, 2011, 02:03:14 PM
I have no idea why people are obsessed with viewing him as a defensive stopper.  I think he's a much bigger asset on offense. 
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: ChiComCat on December 26, 2011, 02:09:52 PM
In other disturbing news......

This statistical comparison is still unflattering as hell to McOreb's.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&i=1&p1=gilson-dejesus (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&i=1&p1=gilson-dejesus)

Seems pretty ok considering McO has played only 11 :dunno:  Surprised at the D-boards tho
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: DQ12 on December 26, 2011, 02:18:51 PM
Dejesus could play.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Kat Kid on December 26, 2011, 02:49:50 PM
In other disturbing news......

This statistical comparison is still unflattering as hell to McOreb's.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&i=1&p1=gilson-dejesus (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&i=1&p1=gilson-dejesus)

Seems pretty ok considering McO has played only 11 :dunno:  Surprised at the D-boards tho

I was looking at 3pt percentage and rebounds as the biggest categories.

My main point here is that an overwhelming number of kstate fans would say that McGruder is a vastly superior basketball player than Rodney.  I don't think that is the case.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on December 26, 2011, 02:57:05 PM
In other disturbing news......

This statistical comparison is still unflattering as hell to McOreb's.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&i=1&p1=gilson-dejesus (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&i=1&p1=gilson-dejesus)

Seems pretty ok considering McO has played only 11 :dunno:  Surprised at the D-boards tho

I was looking at 3pt percentage and rebounds as the biggest categories.

My main point here is that an overwhelming number of kstate fans would say that McGruder is a vastly superior basketball player than Rodney.  I don't think that is the case.

While it's true that your greatest opponent in sports and life in general is often yourself, if I have to choose between McGruder and Dejesus, I'm taking Gruds all-around, JYC game and burgeoning multi-dimensional scoring ability over Dejesus 10 times out of 10.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Kat Kid on December 26, 2011, 03:00:58 PM
Jesus, I am really out of it.

I agree I would rather have Rodney, but it is a really interesting comparison.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on December 26, 2011, 03:07:57 PM
Just as with any KSU Cat that appeared to give a crap, I liked Dejesus, he really showed a lot of improvement between his JR and SR years, and as I said above, he developed into a very reliable spot up shooter and tough rebounder.

You've got to remember though that 02-03 team went 13-17 overall and 4-12 in the Big 12(finishing 11th). God bless Wooly and what he tried to do, but we're just putting a better overall quality of product and players on the floor these days.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: sys on December 26, 2011, 03:28:21 PM
he was a pretty good defender too, despite being extremely unathletic.
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: michigancat on December 26, 2011, 03:53:36 PM
he was a pretty good defender too, despite being extremely unathletic.

He was the lock down defender. He did a great job on Michel Morandis!
Title: Re: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Skipper44 on December 26, 2011, 05:26:03 PM
Wait, so it's Akeem and not Hakeem?
the H stands for Hall of Fame and must be earned :dreamshake:
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: michigancat on December 27, 2011, 12:50:11 PM
PP: #4 for LBSU avoiding being a dunked-upon bitch. JO was going to do it, and #4 was like, "No rough ridin' way. I'm out of here."
Title: Re: Peggy Po's and Nancy Neg's: Diamond Head Classic Beach Champs Edition
Post by: Kat Kid on December 27, 2011, 03:50:54 PM
PP: #4 for LBSU avoiding being a dunked-upon bitch. JO was going to do it, and #4 was like, "No rough ridin' way. I'm out of here."

 :lol: