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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: AbeFroman on December 13, 2011, 01:11:02 PM
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Obama: Plz give us back drone kthx
Iran: LOL no
Obama: :frown:
Although I find it hard to believe that the Iranians are doing anything more than this with it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML1OZCHixR0&t=2m45s
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Yeah, but I heard with Obama, Iran was all really nice and polite and stuff when they said no. They would have told Bush to go eff himself. I love being popular again!
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No one built these things with a self destruct? JFC, we need to check the specs we give to Raytheon.
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Trojan Horse. Duh.
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Trojan Horse. Duh.
Oh man. I feel like a rough ridin' fool now. :shakesfist:
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Just a ploy to give israel cover to nuke them.
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Trojan Horse. Duh.
Probably wirelessly uploading some type of virus to their military comp system. LOLs on them.
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Seriously though, WTF have we not sent more drones in to blow that thing up? No doubt it will end up in the hands of the Russians and Chinese.
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Is this KSU-Salina's fault? Anybody?
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Seriously though, WTF have we not sent more drones in to blow that thing up? No doubt it will end up in the hands of the Russians and Chinese.
this plan sounds flawless.
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Love the latest pic of the "drone" on display on a basketball court.
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Ron Paul
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This is a good read. Part 2 is the best (worst?)
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/pain-continues-after-war-for-american-drone-pilot-a-872726.html
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This is a good read. Part 2 is the best (worst?)
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/pain-continues-after-war-for-american-drone-pilot-a-872726.html
When's the press conference with the crying?
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why are drones perceived as worse than manned missions? (I think they both suck, BTW).
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why are drones perceived as worse than manned missions? (I think they both suck, BTW).
I don't think anyone does(maybe kstate freak?)
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why are drones perceived as worse than manned missions? (I think they both suck, BTW).
i've not heard of manned missions in pakistan, so i think drones are worse because they are doing the majority of the killing.
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why are drones perceived as worse than manned missions? (I think they both suck, BTW).
I don't think anyone does(maybe kstate freak?)
From a brown persons perspective getting bombed by a drone is much worse. Not a damn thing you can do
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why are drones perceived as worse than manned missions? (I think they both suck, BTW).
In part because of the psychological damage caused to civilians due to them always flying around and the chance that they could kill I would think. Also I think that most people don't know how they are controlled and the term "drone" suggests that they are autonomous, and not controlled in a similar way to any other aircraft.
This is a good read. Part 2 is the best (worst?)
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/pain-continues-after-war-for-american-drone-pilot-a-872726.html
When's the press conference with the crying?
It happens after Americans are killed
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why are drones perceived as worse than manned missions? (I think they both suck, BTW).
I don't think anyone does(maybe kstate freak?)
From a brown persons perspective getting bombed by a drone is much worse. Not a damn thing you can do
I think you may be missing what a manned mission is?
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I think drones can be very useful. I just do not like how our government uses them. I read a statistic saying for every 1 suspected terrorist killed roughly 50 civilians die. Not to mention the double tap method where they usually fly back to the target site and hit it once more. And that they will be flying over the skys of america giving big brother the ultimate birds eye view on us!
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I think drones can be very useful. I just do not like how our government uses them. I read a statistic saying for every 1 suspected terrorist killed roughly 50 civilians die. Not to mention the double tap method where they usually fly back to the target site and hit it once more. And that they will be flying over the skys of america giving big brother the ultimate birds eye view on us!
This post is not meant to take away from the terrible things going on overseas, but this does hit on an issue.
Wait until people start getting speeding tickets in the mail 7 days after a drone clocks them going 81 on I-70. The public outrage over that will be greater than the current outrage over their usage in wars going on right now.
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Lol at drones being used for traffic tickets.
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Lol at drones being used for traffic tickets.
If you get got speeding it will instantly airmail you a hellfire missile.
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Lol at drones being used for traffic tickets.
Some states already use/have used aircraft to monitor speeding by air. Multiple cities use camera's to take pictures and send tickets for running red lights. This isn't any different, just wait until it's cost effective. It will start with construction zones for "safety reasons" and slowly grow.
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i can't put my finger on why i take issue with drones, but I do. there's something fundamentally wrong with it. i read an argument against drones that had to do with the idea that with war, there's always an inherent risk to human life on both sides. even if the risk is disproportionate, there's always some risk. with drones though, that risk is taken out for one of those sides.
i'm not necessarily attaching myself to that argument, but drones just seem wrong. there's just something wrong with them, but i don't know what. definitely wrong though.
wrong. wrong. wrong.
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To me it's more about how they are used in secret with no apparent oversight and outside of U.S. and international law.
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To me it's more about how they are used in secret with no apparent oversight and outside of U.S. and international law.
That too. It's like 'Wait, I didn't think we were at war with Pakistan?'
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You could say the same about suicide bombers/IED's in the "no risk to life" category.
They fought dirty so we answered and got real dirty. But the no oversight is a legit complaint
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Lol at drones being used for traffic tickets.
Some states already use/have used aircraft to monitor speeding by air. Multiple cities use camera's to take pictures and send tickets for running red lights. This isn't any different, just wait until it's cost effective. It will start with construction zones for "safety reasons" and slowly grow.
Lots of states want you to think they monitor speeding by air but they don't. It's way too expensive. And undependable, and dangerous. Drones cost way too much for the state hypo to send up to cut traffic citations. Red light cams are being phased out too because they won't stand up in court.
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1) I love Drones as a military vehicle. Why risk an American life if we don't need to? The "it's not fair if there's no risk" argument is silly. Who's in danger when we launch cruise missiles from 500 miles away? The other side, thats who. eff those guys, I don't even know them.
2) They're way too expensive to buy, fly, and maintain to be used for something silly like traffic citations. If anything, why not just fly a single helicopter with a crap load of camaras?
3) Outside of disaster relief/rescue, I can't think of a single reason to ever use them over the US.
4) Stop thinking of them as attack drones, 99.9% of what they do is survey. The reason they're so useful is one can fly like 600 miles, loiter for 18 hrs, and return to base. Imagine how many lives are not risked/missions made safer and more effective because of their use?
5) The CIA uses the crap out of them. I really don't trust anyting the CIA does latey so I'll lump that in with all the other mumped crap those guys do and not with the legitimate usage by the Air Force.
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eff those guys, I don't even know them.
I think it's possible you and I have different views on things maybe.
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It just seems like drones are being used very carelessly right now. It's like "WELP. They're the ones putting civilian life at risk by being there. eff em". I don't think that's good.
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i can't put my finger on why i take issue with drones, but I do. there's something fundamentally wrong with it. i read an argument against drones that had to do with the idea that with war, there's always an inherent risk to human life on both sides. even if the risk is disproportionate, there's always some risk. with drones though, that risk is taken out for one of those sides.
i'm not necessarily attaching myself to that argument, but drones just seem wrong. there's just something wrong with them, but i don't know what. definitely wrong though.
wrong. wrong. wrong.
The lack of a risk to human life is what I find appealing. I think it would be great if there were some way for the wars of the future to be fought with death robots on both sides, so that a war could be determined with almost no human casualties.
My problem with drones is that they are ungodly expensive and I think that the risk is very low with manned missions over a country like Pakistan, and if we are gunning for terrorists, I think a manned pilot would be more accurate. I definitely could be wrong, though.
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eff those guys, I don't even know them.
I think it's possible you and I have different views on things maybe.
I was being sarcastic dude. All I meant was I would rather have "enemy" lives at risk than US lives. Drones give us a distinct advantage in that aspect. And the targeted killings are a bit unsettling because we have to trust that they're actually legitimate targets... One thing we can definitely see is the relatively tiny amount of US deaths in combat recently. We've been in the region for over a decade an (I believe) we actually had more people die on 9/11 than during the entire war thing we're doing. I think people would surprised just how much time and effort is spent deciding on targets from the Air Force side. 99.9% of those dudes aren't in the business of killing people for the hell of it. Also, the rules of engagement that we follow now are rediculously meticulous. Once again though, can't vouch for those CIA strikes, some of those seem pretty mumped up but then again, I haveno idea about what they even do or what laws they're supposed to even be following.
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i can't put my finger on why i take issue with drones, but I do. there's something fundamentally wrong with it. i read an argument against drones that had to do with the idea that with war, there's always an inherent risk to human life on both sides. even if the risk is disproportionate, there's always some risk. with drones though, that risk is taken out for one of those sides.
i'm not necessarily attaching myself to that argument, but drones just seem wrong. there's just something wrong with them, but i don't know what. definitely wrong though.
wrong. wrong. wrong.
I can see your issue if we were in a standard symmetrical war. The inherent issue you have is that the forces the US are fighting were the first to change that paradigm by going to asymmetric war. Think about this, how do you factor IEDs into your equation of human risk in warfare? The limiting of human contact was started by the United State's opponents in response to their disproportionate power.
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A lot of people are acting like a drone has to be the size of a reaper or predator for traffic enforcement. A trooper could easily launch a micro unit with a laser attached for traffic control. Add a camera specifically designed for capturing a front license plate and you can easily deploy these.
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i can't put my finger on why i take issue with drones, but I do. there's something fundamentally wrong with it. i read an argument against drones that had to do with the idea that with war, there's always an inherent risk to human life on both sides. even if the risk is disproportionate, there's always some risk. with drones though, that risk is taken out for one of those sides.
i'm not necessarily attaching myself to that argument, but drones just seem wrong. there's just something wrong with them, but i don't know what. definitely wrong though.
wrong. wrong. wrong.
Think about this, how do you factor IEDs into your equation of human risk in warfare? The limiting of human contact was started by the United State's opponents in response to their disproportionate power.
I don't know. There's not a good answer for it. Like I said, I don't have the answer for why I think it's wrong, and I think it's partly because this is such a novel issue. Flying remote control bomb-y airplanes with no pilots over other countries that we're not even at war with just seems objectively wrong.
I just know that it seems wrong to me. I hope I can figure out why I think that.
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i can't put my finger on why i take issue with drones, but I do. there's something fundamentally wrong with it. i read an argument against drones that had to do with the idea that with war, there's always an inherent risk to human life on both sides. even if the risk is disproportionate, there's always some risk. with drones though, that risk is taken out for one of those sides.
i'm not necessarily attaching myself to that argument, but drones just seem wrong. there's just something wrong with them, but i don't know what. definitely wrong though.
wrong. wrong. wrong.
I can see your issue if we were in a standard symmetrical war. The inherent issue you have is that the forces the US are fighting were the first to change that paradigm by going to asymmetric war. Think about this, how do you factor IEDs into your equation of human risk in warfare? The limiting of human contact was started by the United State's opponents in response to their disproportionate power.
You have a point, but then realize that you're essentially equating drones with IEDs. I wonder whether that will be effective at winning hearts and minds. (For the record, I'm also opposed to IEDs)
I also think it might be of note that, regardless of "who started what kind of asymetry," it's important to keep in mind that we're the ones over there, and we're the ones with the 700 billion dollar "defense" (ha!) budget. I think it also might be of note that (conservatively) over a 100,000 Iraqi civilians have died in the Iraqi war.
But yeah, screw those guys for not fighting fair.
You know why W was dead set on the WMDs, right? Because we have the rough ridin' receipts. We facilitated all of that when we took up sides with Iraq over Iran. We assumed it's easier to reason with a despot who's only interested in power than to deal with a Religious zealot. We even turned our head when he gassed his own people. Of course, we couldn't turn our head when he invaded Kuwait, that would eff up our oil prices. Also, we need to get those WMDs back. Oh crap, they're in Syria now. Weird. We don't just hand out batteries of Patriot missles but Israel and Turkey sure as hell got them ASAP when Syria got all weird with it.
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Drone strikes are really difficult to get approval for. Mostly just surveillance and tracking.
Dlew- one ongoing ethical debate is whether the use of drones changes the nature of soft and hard targets. A pilot hits a camp in Pakistan then drives home to suburban Miami for the day. Is he, his office, his home now a legit target?
There's also the issue of mental adaptation. Similar to how planes revolutionized travel and its affects on the traveler. What sort of "jet lag" will a drone pilot face?
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you shouldn't be able to kill people that easily
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Drone strikes are really difficult to get approval for. Mostly just surveillance and tracking.
Dlew- one ongoing ethical debate is whether the use of drones changes the nature of soft and hard targets. A pilot hits a camp in Pakistan then drives home to suburban Miami for the day. Is he, his office, his home now a legit target?
There's also the issue of mental adaptation. Similar to how planes revolutionized travel and its affects on the traveler. What sort of "jet lag" will a drone pilot face?
I read a really interesting article about drone pilots and PTSD and other mental effects. Its really crazy because they drive to work, clock in, then basically are in a war zone for 12 hours then punch out and go back home to the wife and kids. They don't have the permanent support structure around them that soldiers in the field have.
They spend months and months observing people. Watching their habits, learning about their kids, their friends, their hobbies then suddenly one day the order comes down to launch the missile. Pretty traumatic. Then you get back in your minivan and pick up the kids from T-ball.
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you shouldn't be able to kill people that easily
The drones should use rubber bullets
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2) They're way too expensive to buy, fly, and maintain to be used for something silly like traffic citations. If anything, why not just fly a single helicopter with a crap load of camaras?
3) Outside of disaster relief/rescue, I can't think of a single reason to ever use them over the US.
OSU has an "Unmannad Aerial Systems Option" in their Mechanical and Aeropace Engineering program. The following is a quote from the head of the School of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering:
"Unmanned aerial systems have become the hottest growth area in the aerospace engineering world with an expected 10-year growth rate of tens of billions of dollars per year as the technology is expanded for use in police, security and border patrol operations, agricultural applications and for inspection of pipeline and power transmission.”
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you shouldn't be able to kill people that easily
We shouldn't be killing these people at all.
But is it actually easier? There's obviously less risk to us, but that seems like a good thing. If you're worried about a fair fight, send in troops with muzzle loaders and bayonets, Civil War style.
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you shouldn't be able to kill people that easily
The drones should use rubber bullets
and nitrous oxide.
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you shouldn't be able to kill people that easily
The drones should use rubber bullets
and nitrous oxide.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbs:
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crop dusting drones
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you shouldn't be able to kill people that easily
We shouldn't be killing these people at all.
But is it actually easier? There's obviously less risk to us, but that seems like a good thing. If you're worried about a fair fight, send in troops with muzzle loaders and bayonets, Civil War style.
I think that if we couldn't kill people this easily at basically no risk to ourselves we would sit down and really think about who actually needs killing instead of just randomly blasting groups of suspicious bearded people.
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I'm all for being able to kill people without easily being killed ourselves. War's been this way since WWI.
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you shouldn't be able to kill people that easily
We shouldn't be killing these people at all.
But is it actually easier? There's obviously less risk to us, but that seems like a good thing. If you're worried about a fair fight, send in troops with muzzle loaders and bayonets, Civil War style.
I think that if we couldn't kill people this easily at basically no risk to ourselves we would sit down and really think about who actually needs killing instead of just randomly blasting groups of suspicious bearded people.
Pretty sure more consideration goes into a kill list than skin color and facial hair. Also seems dumb to risk an American life to make it seem "more fair". It's the opposition's fault that they haven't progressed into the modern world, not that that is necessarily better or worse, just reality.
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you shouldn't be able to kill people that easily
We shouldn't be killing these people at all.
But is it actually easier? There's obviously less risk to us, but that seems like a good thing. If you're worried about a fair fight, send in troops with muzzle loaders and bayonets, Civil War style.
I think that if we couldn't kill people this easily at basically no risk to ourselves we would sit down and really think about who actually needs killing instead of just randomly blasting groups of suspicious bearded people.
Yeah, I don't trust our killing decisions quite as much as you.
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you shouldn't be able to kill people that easily
We shouldn't be killing these people at all.
But is it actually easier? There's obviously less risk to us, but that seems like a good thing. If you're worried about a fair fight, send in troops with muzzle loaders and bayonets, Civil War style.
I think that if we couldn't kill people this easily at basically no risk to ourselves we would sit down and really think about who actually needs killing instead of just randomly blasting groups of suspicious bearded people.
Pretty sure more consideration goes into a kill list than skin color and facial hair. Also seems dumb to risk an American life to make it seem "more fair". It's the opposition's fault that they haven't progressed into the modern world, not that that is necessarily better or worse, just reality.
We also carefully weigh religion. It's really a "whole person" matrix.
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Someone needs to put together the "Drone Strike/No Strike Flow Chart" and be sure to include the beard/no beard, skin color, religion, geographical location, etc components. Might just solve this whole thing and put some of you guys at ease.
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Someone needs to put together the "Drone Strike/No Strike Flow Chart" and be sure to include the beard/no beard, skin color, religion, geographical location, etc components. Might just solve this whole thing and put some of you guys at ease.
lolz good post
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Yeah, I don't trust our killing decisions quite as much as you.
i was going to make an amusing post about who i trust to kill people in the school shooting thread. but i was too lazy. :blank:
also a little intimidated to let loose on that thread. wherefore art the courage of an okcat?
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Yeah, I don't trust our killing decisions quite as much as you.
i was going to make an amusing post about who i trust to kill people in the school shooting thread. but i was too lazy. :blank:
also a little intimidated to let loose on that thread. wherefore art the courage of an okcat?
We know exactly what your are going to post so not sure what nugget you are sitting on.
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I kind of like drones and am sure I could find many good uses (targets) for them. Any being offered on EBay?
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I keep checking EBay. No drones for sale. Guess I'll have to look elsewhere. Suggestions?
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we need drones in every classroom
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to protect our kids and freedom
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we need drones in every classroom
to protect our kids and freedom
drones don't kill people, some dude in a trailer in albuquerque kills people
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we need drones in every classroom
to protect our kids and freedom
very illustrative of my point that it's not a matter of pro gun or anti gun. the underlying issue is that we're all a bunch of rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) cowards.
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we need drones in every classroom
to protect our kids and freedom
very illustrative of my point that it's not a matter of pro gun or anti gun. the underlying issue is that we're all a bunch of rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) cowards.
Huh. I thought it was about civil liberties.
But I agree completely with your point here. Although it applies to both sides of the issue.
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we need drones in every classroom
yeah, thats not bad. do we have any drones that would be functional in a classroom setting though?
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we need drones in every classroom
yeah, thats not bad. do we have any drones that would be functional in a classroom setting though?
Whatever we have would probably perform better than your typical private security officer.
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But I agree completely with your point here. Although it applies to both sides of the issue.
it was both. agree that it (the coward part, but actually the liberties part also applies in the argument against having armed overseers monitor our every move) applies to both sides.
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Still haven't found a drone on EBay. May have to check with my more sinister friends who say they have connections.
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All of you, droning on and on and on here.
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All of you, droning on and on and on here.
:lol: I GET IT! :lol:
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After days surfing the 'Net, I've decided there are no drones for sale via e-commerce. I'll have to think of something else.
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The only thing left to do at this juncture is exhume the body of Robert McNamara and employ a "Strategic Hamlet" initiative to win the "hearts and minds" of our "enemy".
http://news.antiwar.com/2012/12/26/yemen-fears-backlash-as-drone-strike-victims-side-with-al-qaeda/
But then again, it's not really about "fightin terra" so much as it's about U.S. Hegemony.
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The only thing left to do at this juncture is exhume the body of Robert McNamara and employ a "Strategic Hamlet" initiative to win the "hearts and minds" of our "enemy".
http://news.antiwar.com/2012/12/26/yemen-fears-backlash-as-drone-strike-victims-side-with-al-qaeda/
But then again, it's not really about "fightin terra" so much as it's about U.S. Hegemony.
Oh no, those people would have otherwise loved the US and been a huge asset. Crap, opportunity lost.
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Oh no, those people would have otherwise loved the US and been a huge asset. Crap, opportunity lost.
Well...maybe? But blowing up their crap with flying robots probably ensures that they're going to not like us and maybe even take up arms against us.
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just watched Bourne Legacy yesterday. the movie was crap, but the drones in it were kind of cool.
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I'm convinced I'm afflicted with drone envy. Oh, for a drone of my own.
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Oh no, those people would have otherwise loved the US and been a huge asset. Crap, opportunity lost.
Well...maybe? But blowing up their crap with flying robots probably ensures that they're going to not like us and maybe even take up arms against us.
No reason to stop trying to kill those who already have already taken up arms against us.
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Oh no, those people would have otherwise loved the US and been a huge asset. Crap, opportunity lost.
Well...maybe? But blowing up their crap with flying robots probably ensures that they're going to not like us and maybe even take up arms against us.
No reason to stop trying to kill those who already have already taken up arms against us.
Why do they take up arms against us in the first place?
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Oh no, those people would have otherwise loved the US and been a huge asset. Crap, opportunity lost.
Well...maybe? But blowing up their crap with flying robots probably ensures that they're going to not like us and maybe even take up arms against us.
No reason to stop trying to kill those who already have already taken up arms against us.
Why do they take up arms against us in the first place?
We are rich, good looking and don't believe in their god. We were imperialist pigs for a century (in their eyes). Let's not pretend that stopping drone strikes would turn the entire muslim world into our friends. It wouldn't even turn but a few dozen in our favor.
But you know this.
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Oh no, those people would have otherwise loved the US and been a huge asset. Crap, opportunity lost.
Well...maybe? But blowing up their crap with flying robots probably ensures that they're going to not like us and maybe even take up arms against us.
No reason to stop trying to kill those who already have already taken up arms against us.
Why do they take up arms against us in the first place?
We are rich, good looking and don't believe in their god. We were imperialist pigs for a century (in their eyes). Let's not pretend that stopping drone strikes would turn the entire muslim world into our friends. It wouldn't even turn but a few dozen in our favor.
But you know this.
I disagree with about everything you said.
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Oh no, those people would have otherwise loved the US and been a huge asset. Crap, opportunity lost.
Well...maybe? But blowing up their crap with flying robots probably ensures that they're going to not like us and maybe even take up arms against us.
No reason to stop trying to kill those who already have already taken up arms against us.
Why do they take up arms against us in the first place?
We are rich, good looking and don't believe in their god. We were imperialist pigs for a century (in their eyes). Let's not pretend that stopping drone strikes would turn the entire muslim world into our friends. It wouldn't even turn but a few dozen in our favor.
But you know this.
I disagree with about everything you said.
That's fine.
logic isn't everyone's cup of tea.
go qhatz
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Oh no, those people would have otherwise loved the US and been a huge asset. Crap, opportunity lost.
Well...maybe? But blowing up their crap with flying robots probably ensures that they're going to not like us and maybe even take up arms against us.
No reason to stop trying to kill those who already have already taken up arms against us.
Why do they take up arms against us in the first place?
We are rich, good looking and don't believe in their god. We were imperialist pigs for a century (in their eyes). Let's not pretend that stopping drone strikes would turn the entire muslim world into our friends. It wouldn't even turn but a few dozen in our favor.
But you know this.
I disagree with about everything you said.
That's fine.
logic isn't everyone's cup of tea.
go qhatz
no you are.
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Oh no, those people would have otherwise loved the US and been a huge asset. Crap, opportunity lost.
Well...maybe? But blowing up their crap with flying robots probably ensures that they're going to not like us and maybe even take up arms against us.
No reason to stop trying to kill those who already have already taken up arms against us.
Why do they take up arms against us in the first place?
We are rich, good looking and don't believe in their god. We were imperialist pigs for a century (in their eyes). Let's not pretend that stopping drone strikes would turn the entire muslim world into our friends. It wouldn't even turn but a few dozen in our favor.
But you know this.
I disagree with about everything you said.
"about"? They hate us, and they hated us a long time before we ever flew a drone.
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Oh no, those people would have otherwise loved the US and been a huge asset. Crap, opportunity lost.
Well...maybe? But blowing up their crap with flying robots probably ensures that they're going to not like us and maybe even take up arms against us.
No reason to stop trying to kill those who already have already taken up arms against us.
Why do they take up arms against us in the first place?
We are rich, good looking and don't believe in their god. We were imperialist pigs for a century (in their eyes). Let's not pretend that stopping drone strikes would turn the entire muslim world into our friends. It wouldn't even turn but a few dozen in our favor.
But you know this.
I disagree with about everything you said.
"about"? They hate us, and they hated us a long time before we ever flew a drone.
I don't disagree with any of that. But even that is a little too simple for me. My point is that, while stopping drone strikes probably wouldn't "turn" anyone in our favor, the continuation of the drone strikes, and agressive actions similar to the drone strikes, will likely make people in the future militantly oppose the US, who otherwise may not have.
I don't agree with their motivation having to do with "rich, good looking and don't believe in their god." Tons of countries fit that description that Middle Eastern people do not "take up arms" against.
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Oh no, those people would have otherwise loved the US and been a huge asset. Crap, opportunity lost.
Well...maybe? But blowing up their crap with flying robots probably ensures that they're going to not like us and maybe even take up arms against us.
No reason to stop trying to kill those who already have already taken up arms against us.
Why do they take up arms against us in the first place?
We are rich, good looking and don't believe in their god. We were imperialist pigs for a century (in their eyes). Let's not pretend that stopping drone strikes would turn the entire muslim world into our friends. It wouldn't even turn but a few dozen in our favor.
But you know this.
I disagree with about everything you said.
"about"? They hate us, and they hated us a long time before we ever flew a drone.
I don't disagree with any of that. But even that is a little too simple for me. My point is that, while stopping drone strikes probably wouldn't "turn" anyone in our favor, the continuation of the drone strikes, and agressive actions similar to the drone strikes, will likely make people in the future militantly oppose the US, who otherwise may not have.
I don't agree with their motivation having to do with "rich, good looking and don't believe in their god." Tons of countries fit that description that Middle Eastern people do not "take up arms" against.
When we stop going after the bad guys who plan attacks on our country because we are worried about angering some others who might turn into bad guys we are in troubs.
Not a lot. All of Europe has been attacked at one point. Russia, India etc. Maybe Japan hasn't been.
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All of Europe has been attacked at one point. Russia, India etc. Maybe Japan hasn't been.
The UK, Spain, France, Russia...Turkey = all of Europe? And these terrorists were principally motivated by their distaste for these countries' cultures?
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All of Europe has been attacked at one point. Russia, India etc. Maybe Japan hasn't been.
The UK, Spain, France, Russia...Turkey = all of Europe? And these terrorists were principally motivated by their distaste for these countries' cultures?
I guess Switz and Norway have been able to avoid them. I will retract the "all of Europe" statement.
Still not sure how parking the drones would stop terrorism. Certainly think it is a risky strategy to leave them alone and wait for them to fall in love with the good ol USA. I am not sure how many drones were in the air when the USS Cole was attacked in October of 2000.
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"Drone Pilot" is probably THE very best job in the military, in any branch.
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Do you think Obama drives out to Virginia once in awhile and flies a few sorties?
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All of Europe has been attacked at one point. Russia, India etc. Maybe Japan hasn't been.
The UK, Spain, France, Russia...Turkey = all of Europe? And these terrorists were principally motivated by their distaste for these countries' cultures?
I guess Switz and Norway have been able to avoid them. I will retract the "all of Europe" statement.
Still not sure how parking the drones would stop terrorism. Certainly think it is a risky strategy to leave them alone and wait for them to fall in love with the good ol USA. I am not sure how many drones were in the air when the USS Cole was attacked in October of 2000.
Yeah, Switzerland, Norway, and basically every other state in Europe not named UK, Spain, France, Russia or Turkey.
And I never said parking the drones would stop terrorism. But getting the military and our military support out of the Middle East would stop islamist-terrorism in the US imo. On the other hand, we will never do that. And I guess if we're going to be there, we better not pussy foot around. "In for a penny, in for a pound."
So we'll continue spending tons of money to liberate them by bombing the crap out of them and terrorizing them with drones and our absurdly sized military, and they'll continue committing terrorist attacks on the West "because they hate our culture."
Seems wrong to me though.
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All of Europe has been attacked at one point. Russia, India etc. Maybe Japan hasn't been.
The UK, Spain, France, Russia...Turkey = all of Europe? And these terrorists were principally motivated by their distaste for these countries' cultures?
I guess Switz and Norway have been able to avoid them. I will retract the "all of Europe" statement.
Still not sure how parking the drones would stop terrorism. Certainly think it is a risky strategy to leave them alone and wait for them to fall in love with the good ol USA. I am not sure how many drones were in the air when the USS Cole was attacked in October of 2000.
Yeah, Switzerland, Norway, and basically every other state in Europe not named UK, Spain, France, Russia or Turkey.
And I never said parking the drones would stop terrorism. But getting the military and our money out of the Middle East would stop islamist-terrorism in the US imo. On the other hand, we will never do that. And I guess if we're going to be there, we better not pussy foot around. "In for a penny, in for a pound."
So we'll continue spending tons of money to liberate them by bombing the crap out of them and terrorizing them with drones and our absurdly sized military, and they'll continue committing terrorist attacks on the West "because they hate our culture."
Seems wrong to me though.
Thread is about drones. The "we are evil Americans, lets cut the military budget" thread is a few pages back. I'd be pretty on board with cutting that budget btw.
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"Drone Pilot" is probably THE very best job in the military, in any branch.
if it was recon missions only. I don't think it would be fun to fly one that kills children.
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Thread is about drones.
Good point. I still think drones contribute to the problem to which i was alluding above. We disagree about that, but that's okay. It's pretty murky i think.
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"Drone Pilot" is probably THE very best job in the military, in any branch.
actually they have been getting more attention of late. Huge issue with PTSD and grief issues. Unlike many 'forward' positions these guys don't get time off. So every day of their work week they are flying, blowing stuff up, in a weird kind of always on, but removed, combat mode.
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"Drone Pilot" is probably THE very best job in the military, in any branch.
actually they have been getting more attention of late. Huge issue with PTSD and grief issues. Unlike many 'forward' positions these guys don't get time off. So every day of their work week they are flying, blowing stuff up, in a weird kind of always on, but removed, combat mode.
Yeah, this was the bump that got this dumpster fire going again:
This is a good read. Part 2 is the best (worst?)
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/pain-continues-after-war-for-american-drone-pilot-a-872726.html