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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: The Manhatter on October 18, 2011, 04:03:28 PM
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interesting how I never heard that after this game: http://www.lsusports.net//ViewContent.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&CONTENT_ID=162066 (http://www.lsusports.net//ViewContent.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&CONTENT_ID=162066)
I realize it's for different reasons...I mean LSU is insanely talented but the principles are the same. Picking up gobs of yards between the 20s via the spread is useless unless you can score enough to win. Like LSU that night we forced turnovers, ran the ball, and scored non-offensive TDs. When LSU did it...it's because they're damn good and WVa's yardage was insignificant...when we did it there was some sort of magic by Bill and voodoo type good fortune.
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Its sinking in that our D makes plays when they must.
We were down 9 to Baylor and they drove to our 30 yard line before being stopped on downs. Baylor misses a 47 yard field goal and it was all KSU after that.
That's not luck. That's a D clamping down to win a game.
Luck and talent can GTFO of determination and grits path as far as I'm concerned.
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BITB, folks.
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Just give me the W baby, as far as how many yards are put up by each team...
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F28.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lg2dlipZ6l1qzmopno1_400.jpg&hash=fdad779574657628c5b8fd255935687f68145c87)
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It's game management. Les Miles gets it.
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interesting how I never heard that after this game: http://www.lsusports.net//ViewContent.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&CONTENT_ID=162066 (http://www.lsusports.net//ViewContent.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&CONTENT_ID=162066)
I realize it's for different reasons...I mean LSU is insanely talented but the principles are the same. Picking up gobs of yards between the 20s via the spread is useless unless you can score enough to win. Like LSU that night we forced turnovers, ran the ball, and scored non-offensive TDs. When LSU did it...it's because they're damn good and WVa's yardage was insignificant...when we did it there was some sort of magic by Bill and voodoo type good fortune.
Right, but unlike LSU, K-State gave up 34 points, and was extremely lucky to get out of Lubbock with a win against an unranked team. LSU beat #16 WV by 26 points. That's why you don't compare these defenses.
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interesting how I never heard that after this game: http://www.lsusports.net//ViewContent.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&CONTENT_ID=162066 (http://www.lsusports.net//ViewContent.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&CONTENT_ID=162066)
I realize it's for different reasons...I mean LSU is insanely talented but the principles are the same. Picking up gobs of yards between the 20s via the spread is useless unless you can score enough to win. Like LSU that night we forced turnovers, ran the ball, and scored non-offensive TDs. When LSU did it...it's because they're damn good and WVa's yardage was insignificant...when we did it there was some sort of magic by Bill and voodoo type good fortune.
Right, but unlike LSU, K-State gave up 34 points, and was extremely lucky to get out of Lubbock with a win against an unranked team. LSU beat #16 WV by 26 points. That's why you don't compare these defenses.
squawk :jerk:
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when we did it there was some sort of magic by Bill and voodoo type good fortune.
The media talking point - "it is [insert adjective] what LHC Bill Snyder is able to do with that talent."
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interesting how I never heard that after this game: http://www.lsusports.net//ViewContent.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&CONTENT_ID=162066 (http://www.lsusports.net//ViewContent.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&CONTENT_ID=162066)
I realize it's for different reasons...I mean LSU is insanely talented but the principles are the same. Picking up gobs of yards between the 20s via the spread is useless unless you can score enough to win. Like LSU that night we forced turnovers, ran the ball, and scored non-offensive TDs. When LSU did it...it's because they're damn good and WVa's yardage was insignificant...when we did it there was some sort of magic by Bill and voodoo type good fortune.
Right, but unlike LSU, K-State gave up 34 points, and was extremely lucky to get out of Lubbock with a win against an unranked team. LSU beat #16 WV by 26 points. That's why you don't compare these defenses.
WV is an incredibly over rated Big East team. They've knocked off monsters like Marshal, Norfolk State (who the eff?), Maryland, Bowling Green, and UCONN. The only real team they played is LSU and they got crushed.
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Right, but unlike LSU, K-State gave up 34 points, and was extremely lucky to get out of Lubbock with a win against an unranked team. LSU beat #16 WV by 26 points. That's why you don't compare these defenses.
Yeah, comparing KSU to LSU probably isn't a good idea, no matter what the intention.
However, KSU was "extremely lucky" to get out of Lubbock with a win?
We missed a 30 yard field goal to ice the game. Then, Tech recovers an on-side kick to have a chance to tie. And KSU is the lucky team???
We should have won that game by at least 10 points.
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The Solid Verbal guys pick against K-Sate every week (except one picked 'em this week) and keep saying how they just can't "get behind" K-State. Get behind K-State for what? An undefeated national championship contender? OK, I don't think anyone's "getting behind" K-State for that. What people ARE "getting behind" is a K-State team that's looking good to finish 8-4 or 9-3, and should be a solid #15-#20 team in the country.
I mean, JFC, there's some sort of middle ground behind "run the table" and "this team sucks." Losing to the #3 and #4 teams in the BCS, and aTm or Texas, doesn't mean K-State's not a top 25 team.
:rolleyes:
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interesting how I never heard that after this game: http://www.lsusports.net//ViewContent.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&CONTENT_ID=162066 (http://www.lsusports.net//ViewContent.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&CONTENT_ID=162066)
I realize it's for different reasons...I mean LSU is insanely talented but the principles are the same. Picking up gobs of yards between the 20s via the spread is useless unless you can score enough to win. Like LSU that night we forced turnovers, ran the ball, and scored non-offensive TDs. When LSU did it...it's because they're damn good and WVa's yardage was insignificant...when we did it there was some sort of magic by Bill and voodoo type good fortune.
Right, but unlike LSU, K-State gave up 34 points, and was extremely lucky to get out of Lubbock with a win against an unranked team. LSU beat #16 WV by 26 points. That's why you don't compare these defenses.
WV is an incredibly over rated Big East team. They've knocked off monsters like Marshal, Norfolk State (who the eff?), Maryland, Bowling Green, and UCONN. The only real team they played is LSU and they got crushed.
OK, throw out the opponent. I would say WV and Tech are actually pretty comparable opponents. The point is, hatter asked why no one is jerking off K-State's defense like they are LSU's. My answer is, LSU doesn't give up 34 points and K-State's does.
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KSU shanks a field goal then loses the onside recovery.
We're so damn lucky!
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another reminder of how smoke and mirrory our season has been.
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And people make fun of Ben for constantly being in need of validation...
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And people make fun of Ben for constantly being in need of validation...
THIS. Who rough ridin' cares what talking head picks us to win a game with his armchair analysis? Who rough ridin' cares if they call us lucky on Sunday morning? Who rough ridin' cares if they want to say we've been lucky 4 weeks in a row? Let's keep being "lucky". six and oh baby.....
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This team was in a position to win the last two games by double digits. They have shown an inability to put away opposing teams, and that very well could come back to bite us in the ass, but our games really haven't been the miracle wins the media likes to portray.
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giving up huge chunks of yards to everyone is going to bite us in the ass.
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I'll go ahead and predict that if ku does not turn the ball over that they will win the game because we will not stop them.
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I'll go ahead and predict that if ku does not turn the ball over that they will win the game because we will not stop them.
I'll go one further... if ku doesn't turn the ball over and scores more points than us, they will win the game.
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outgained 580-339 :sdeek:
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I'll go ahead and predict that if ku does not turn the ball over that they will win the game because we will not stop them.
Somebody hasn't watched much K-State this year. :lynchmob: is back. :excited:
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If we don't make very many good plays and only make bad plays we will lose. And I'm sure KU won't run the "turn the ball over" plays that Tech, Missouri, and Baylor ran. :blah:
We don't have some great, lock down defense, but its really hard to say we consistently give up "chunks of yards".
And I really don't understand this concept that we won't be able to stop KU. KU will score some points, maybe even in the 20s, but I don't see how they can keep us out of the 30s (or more).
This will be a 14-17 point win for the Cats. (at least)
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they probably didn't emphasize it because...
LSU has out gained its opponents 2584 - 1763, as opposed to ksu being out gained by its opponents 2017 - 2074*.
Further LSU has outscored its oppy's 269-67, as opposed to KSU who has outscored its oppy's 176 - 117.
Against Ranked Opponents (LSU has played 4 top 25 teams this season), LSU has out gained its opponents 1453 - 1274, while outscoring them 147-50.
Against our 4 biggest opponents (Miami, Baylor (15), Mizzou, and Tech) we have been out gained 1379 - 1746*, while only outscoring them 129 - 110.
Its nice to pick out one game and be all like "HAI MAN, WHATS BOUT THAT WVU GAME?!!!?!?!?!! :shakesfist: "
but looking at the story of the season and the consistency that LSU has maintained vs what can only be described as "Schemeyness" by the @UATz may give you a little bit of a reason why the media emphasizes those numbers.
*numbers edited because i can't type.
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1747 - 2344
:sdeek:
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JFC, if you're going to make an argument at least get it right.
KSU has not been outgained by 600 yards this year....it's 2,017 to 2,073. Whoopty fl_lcking do! We've played 4 top 40 offenses (including #s 3, 6, and 13) and we don't pretend to be a juggernaut offensively.
btw, these "ranked" teams LSU played includes a Miss St. team that has turned out to be trash. Tennessee, Miss St, Kentucky, and Florida all have very pedestrian offenses. Using hindsight to make a statement about where LSU was 4 weeks ago when they played WVa is convenient. The principles remain the same.
BTW, for whatever reason I think some here believe I'm trying to make some sort of statement that our defense is comparable to LSU. That is FAR from the truth. LSU's personnel is better along the DL and all over the secondary...we don't have that. But the general principles of defensive play being impactful vs. a spread offense that chews up yards between the 20s...that is still an apples to apples comparison. We were not lucky in any way against Tech...when that game came down the stretch they did NOTHING offensively....especially in the 4th quarter with the game on the line.
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1747 - 2344
:sdeek:
:facepalm: it's 2,017 to 2,074
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We scored 2 TD's and the offense never touched the ball on either one at TT (We were a shoe string tackle away from scoring a 3rd without the offense on the field, heck we were one guy away from scoring a 4th without the offense on the field).
So in retrospect who is at all surprised that TT got the yardarge they got?
What is more of a concern is that we still give up multiple long plays where we get absolutely clownsuited, and it brings up memories of last years D immmediately.
It is a concern that at some point our D getting clownsuited starts to snowball in a game.
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JFC, if you're going to make an argument at least get it right.
KSU has not been outgained by 600 yards this year....it's 2,017 to 2,073. Whoopty fl_lcking do! We've played 4 top 40 offenses (including #s 3, 6, and 13) and we don't pretend to be a juggernaut offensively.
btw, these "ranked" teams LSU played includes a Miss St. team that has turned out to be trash. Tennessee, Miss St, Kentucky, and Florida all have very pedestrian offenses. Using hindsight to make a statement about where LSU was 4 weeks ago when they played WVa is convenient. The principles remain the same.
BTW, for whatever reason I think some here believe I'm trying to make some sort of statement that our defense is comparable to LSU. That is FAR from the truth. LSU's personnel is better along the DL and all over the secondary...we don't have that. But the general principles of defensive play being impactful vs. a spread offense that chews up yards between the 20s...that is still an apples to apples comparison. We were not lucky in any way against Tech...when that game came down the stretch they did NOTHING offensively....especially in the 4th quarter with the game on the line.
nvm, i'm an idiot. few typos. :facepalm:
either way, you were complaining about them not making a big deal about an LSU team being out gained, when they don't make a habit of doing it. sorry for the goofy maths.
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What is more of a concern is that we still give up multiple long plays where we get absolutely clownsuited, and it brings up memories of last years D immmediately.
It is a concern that at some point our D getting clownsuited starts to snowball in a game.
Good point and a legit concern.
We seemed to get it corrected though; Tech had no plays longer than 20 yards (and only 2 longer than 15) in the entire 2nd half.
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i don't understand how you got these numbers. I went through each box score and put total yards into excel. I noticed the discrepancy between the numbers that resulted and what is listed on our total offensive output. I went back and checked everything after that and still couldn't find why the numbers would be different. Maybe you could explain to me why there is a difference in those numbers.
You don't need to do that much work, pretty much any statistic for K-State football that you could possibly want to look at is right here. (http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/team/327/index.html)
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JFC, if you're going to make an argument at least get it right.
KSU has not been outgained by 600 yards this year....it's 2,017 to 2,073. Whoopty fl_lcking do! We've played 4 top 40 offenses (including #s 3, 6, and 13) and we don't pretend to be a juggernaut offensively.
btw, these "ranked" teams LSU played includes a Miss St. team that has turned out to be trash. Tennessee, Miss St, Kentucky, and Florida all have very pedestrian offenses. Using hindsight to make a statement about where LSU was 4 weeks ago when they played WVa is convenient. The principles remain the same.
BTW, for whatever reason I think some here believe I'm trying to make some sort of statement that our defense is comparable to LSU. That is FAR from the truth. LSU's personnel is better along the DL and all over the secondary...we don't have that. But the general principles of defensive play being impactful vs. a spread offense that chews up yards between the 20s...that is still an apples to apples comparison. We were not lucky in any way against Tech...when that game came down the stretch they did NOTHING offensively....especially in the 4th quarter with the game on the line.
i don't understand how you got these numbers. I went through each box score and put total yards into excel. I noticed the discrepancy between the numbers that resulted and what is listed on our total offensive output. I went back and checked everything after that and still couldn't find why the numbers would be different. Maybe you could explain to me why there is a difference in those numbers.
keep it simple: http://www.kstatesports.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2011-2012/teamcume.html (http://www.kstatesports.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2011-2012/teamcume.html)
Miami gained a lot of their yardage in "come from behind" situations...same with Mizzou. Mizzou had 170 yards of offense and 3 pts with 10 minutes to play. We lined up our corners and safety 10 yards off the ball at that time vs. Mizzou. Baylor did nothing in the game's final 21 minutes and Tech did nothing in the 2nd half...especially the 3rd quarter.
Miami, Baylor, and Mizzou didn't outgain us drastically.....LSU was outgained by Oregon similarly to what we were vs. Mizzou.
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JFC, if you're going to make an argument at least get it right.
KSU has not been outgained by 600 yards this year....it's 2,017 to 2,073. Whoopty fl_lcking do! We've played 4 top 40 offenses (including #s 3, 6, and 13) and we don't pretend to be a juggernaut offensively.
btw, these "ranked" teams LSU played includes a Miss St. team that has turned out to be trash. Tennessee, Miss St, Kentucky, and Florida all have very pedestrian offenses. Using hindsight to make a statement about where LSU was 4 weeks ago when they played WVa is convenient. The principles remain the same.
BTW, for whatever reason I think some here believe I'm trying to make some sort of statement that our defense is comparable to LSU. That is FAR from the truth. LSU's personnel is better along the DL and all over the secondary...we don't have that. But the general principles of defensive play being impactful vs. a spread offense that chews up yards between the 20s...that is still an apples to apples comparison. We were not lucky in any way against Tech...when that game came down the stretch they did NOTHING offensively....especially in the 4th quarter with the game on the line.
nvm, i'm an idiot. few typos. :face palm:
either way, you were complaining about them not making a big deal about an LSU team being out gained, when they don't make a habit of doing it. sorry for the goofy maths.
and the general reason for that is because LSU has played 5 crap offenses of their 7 games. The only two really good offenses they played outgained them statistically (Oregon and WVa).
The only point I'm making is that they're judging LSU's defense differently ignoring the principles of successful defense. Forget the defensive personnel for LSU...we all know their defensive personnel takes a backseat to nobody. But good defense is good defense.
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JFC, if you're going to make an argument at least get it right.
KSU has not been outgained by 600 yards this year....it's 2,017 to 2,073. Whoopty fl_lcking do! We've played 4 top 40 offenses (including #s 3, 6, and 13) and we don't pretend to be a juggernaut offensively.
btw, these "ranked" teams LSU played includes a Miss St. team that has turned out to be trash. Tennessee, Miss St, Kentucky, and Florida all have very pedestrian offenses. Using hindsight to make a statement about where LSU was 4 weeks ago when they played WVa is convenient. The principles remain the same.
BTW, for whatever reason I think some here believe I'm trying to make some sort of statement that our defense is comparable to LSU. That is FAR from the truth. LSU's personnel is better along the DL and all over the secondary...we don't have that. But the general principles of defensive play being impactful vs. a spread offense that chews up yards between the 20s...that is still an apples to apples comparison. We were not lucky in any way against Tech...when that game came down the stretch they did NOTHING offensively....especially in the 4th quarter with the game on the line.
nvm, i'm an idiot. few typos. :face palm:
either way, you were complaining about them not making a big deal about an LSU team being out gained, when they don't make a habit of doing it. sorry for the goofy maths.
and the general reason for that is because LSU has played 5 crap offenses of their 7 games. The only two really good offenses they played outgained them statistically (Oregon and WVa).
The only point I'm making is that they're judging LSU's defense differently ignoring the principles of successful defense. Forget the defensive personnel for LSU...we all know their defensive personnel takes a backseat to nobody. But good defense is good defense.
how do you reconcile that with points allowed?
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and i'm on the same page as you with our defense. they have held some high output teams to well below their average, but one thing i can't get past are the points allowed in comparison to teams like lsu. but then again that really wasn't the point of your first post. point taken.
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What are you trying to reconcile?
NCAA rank
7th LSU - 11.7 ppg
21st KSU - 19.5 ppg
opponents scoring offense
3rd Oregon -
13th West Virginia -
62nd Tennessee (w/o Bray)
71st Florida
85th Miss St
118th Kentucky -
68th (FCS) Northwestern St
avg FBS rank = 58.7
7th Baylor -
9th Texas Tech -
26th Mizzou -
48th Miami -
120th Kent St -
60th (FCS) E. Kentucky
avg FBS rank = 42
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You guys seem to be winning close ones with the right plays.
You either end up like 2002 Ohio State if you keep pulling it out or the frequent tough spots you encounter will be highlighted significantly in the eyes of observers.
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What about 2010 Auburn?!?! :excited: :excited:
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KSU has the 18th best defense in the country right now! LSU has the number 2 defense.
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KSU has the 18th best defense in the country right now! LSU has the number 2 defense.
What would the score be if we played LSU on a neutral field?
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KSU has the 18th best defense in the country right now! LSU has the number 2 defense.
What would the score be if we played LSU on a neutral field?
chirp?