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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: EllToPay on February 22, 2010, 01:28:36 PM

Title: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: EllToPay on February 22, 2010, 01:28:36 PM
How does Dom's newfound stroke affect how defenses play us? Will teams give Dom five feet anymore?

I realize the last two games are an anamoly, but showing somewhat of a pulse when he is outside 15 ft has to be a positive, right?

:dunno:
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kso_FAN on February 22, 2010, 01:28:54 PM
Good sign, yes.  Major effect on guarding us, no.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: CNS on February 22, 2010, 01:38:24 PM
How does Dom's newfound stroke affect how defenses play us? Will teams give Dom five feet anymore?

I realize the last two games are an anamoly, but showing somewhat of a pulse when he is outside 15 ft has to be a positive, right?

:dunno:

I would imagine that every coach will say, "let's see him hit it....then we will change how we guard him".  If he keeps hitting, it is a good thing.  Could open up Dom's dribble drive more if his guy is immediately on him rather than sagging. 

I don't think this changes how anyone game plans us though.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: michigancat on February 22, 2010, 01:41:58 PM
Good sign, yes.  Major effect on guarding us, no.

Disagree - I think it's HUGE.  HUGE!

If he can hit at least 1 a game (with about 4 attempts) it will be amazing.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kso_FAN on February 22, 2010, 01:44:15 PM
Good sign, yes.  Major effect on guarding us, no.

Disagree - I think it's HUGE.  HUGE!

If he can hit at least 1 a game (with about 4 attempts) it will be amazing.

No doubt. 

I just don't think Knight will be changing his gameplan much to account for it Tuesday. 
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kougar24 on February 22, 2010, 01:44:28 PM
Good sign, yes.  Major effect on guarding us, no.

Disagree - I think it's HUGE.  HUGE!

If he can hit at least 1 a game (with about 4 attempts) it will be amazing.

This pains me, but I'm going with Rusty here. I don't think it was a coincidence that Kelly and Samuels started having their way inside on OU after Dom hit his first 3. Not having that extra body sagging in the lane changes the entire dynamic of our offense, opens up our posts 1-on-1, and creates lanes for Denis and Jake to drive through.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: michigancat on February 22, 2010, 01:46:22 PM
Good sign, yes.  Major effect on guarding us, no.

Disagree - I think it's HUGE.  HUGE!

If he can hit at least 1 a game (with about 4 attempts) it will be amazing.

No doubt. 

I just don't think Knight will be changing his gameplan much to account for it Tuesday. 

He'll adjust it pretty damn quick if he makes one, though.  If he doesn't, look for Dom to go "michigancat at the Y" on the RRaiders.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: EMAWzified on February 22, 2010, 01:46:35 PM
No argument it can be huge. But I agree opposing coaches will make him prove it. That's a good thing if he can hit.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: bleedpurple on February 22, 2010, 02:08:30 PM
It'll make it easier on our posts, easier to get it to them, more room to create, less doubling, and also less help from sutton's man when guards penetrate. Huge difference, no probably not. Will it make things easier in the half court, yes. And as good as we already are, something this small can help a lot.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: WildcatNkilt on February 22, 2010, 02:15:39 PM
Dom's last shot was hideous and forced.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: michigancat on February 22, 2010, 02:18:19 PM
And as good as we already are, something this small can help a lot.

I guess it's easy to forget sometimes (even for me) that we have the NUMBER TEN offense in the country.

www.kenpom.com
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: catzacker on February 22, 2010, 02:19:23 PM
dom's outside shot = fool's gold.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: _33 on February 22, 2010, 02:20:22 PM
Good sign, yes.  Major effect on guarding us, no.

Disagree - I think it's HUGE.  HUGE!

If he can hit at least 1 a game (with about 4 attempts) it will be amazing.

No doubt. 

I just don't think Knight will be changing his gameplan much to account for it Tuesday. 

If he doesn't, look for Dom to go "michigancat at the Y" on the RRaiders.

Great.  That's what we need is Dom going over to the TT bench and apologizing after every foul.  Boom roasted.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: michigancat on February 22, 2010, 02:21:40 PM
Good sign, yes.  Major effect on guarding us, no.

Disagree - I think it's HUGE.  HUGE!

If he can hit at least 1 a game (with about 4 attempts) it will be amazing.

No doubt. 

I just don't think Knight will be changing his gameplan much to account for it Tuesday. 

If he doesn't, look for Dom to go "michigancat at the Y" on the RRaiders.

Great.  That's what we need is Dom going over to the TT bench and apologizing after every foul.  Boom roasted.

We're both in a fragile emotional state when we play - teetering on the brink of self-implosion.  But we can both make it rain.  :cool:
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: EllToPay on February 22, 2010, 02:25:35 PM
dom's outside shot = fool's gold.

pretty much.
 
:cry:
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: ZmoneyKSU on February 22, 2010, 02:31:24 PM
dom's outside shot = fool's gold.

Thanks Jim Woolridge.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: yosh on February 22, 2010, 02:38:06 PM
If Dom has truly turned a corner in this regard, it's a HUGE deal to Dom's after college prospects.  It's a pretty big deal for KSU's next 45 or so games as well.  That said, I would still make him hit a couple if I were an opposing coach...
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: SleepFighter on February 22, 2010, 02:46:10 PM
D00d is 45.5% on the year.

Keep shooting Dom!
 :bball:
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: CNS on February 22, 2010, 02:46:53 PM
If Dom has truly turned a corner in this regard, it's a HUGE deal to Dom's after college prospects.  It's a pretty big deal for KSU's next 45 or so games as well.  That said, I would still make him hit a couple if I were an opposing coach...

Dom doesn't turn that corner until he hits them without such an awkward aim/windup.   Something to be said for a smooth shot.  Way too much going on with his motion/or lack of.

Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kougar24 on February 22, 2010, 03:07:46 PM
If Dom has truly turned a corner in this regard, it's a HUGE deal to Dom's after college prospects.  It's a pretty big deal for KSU's next 45 or so games as well.  That said, I would still make him hit a couple if I were an opposing coach...

Dom doesn't turn that corner until he hits them without such an awkward aim/windup.   Something to be said for a smooth shot.  Way too much going on with his motion/or lack of.



Mechanics are formed in middle school, you don't jack with them at this level. The list of great college shooters with horrible mechanics is long.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: CNS on February 22, 2010, 03:09:55 PM
If Dom has truly turned a corner in this regard, it's a HUGE deal to Dom's after college prospects.  It's a pretty big deal for KSU's next 45 or so games as well.  That said, I would still make him hit a couple if I were an opposing coach...

Dom doesn't turn that corner until he hits them without such an awkward aim/windup.   Something to be said for a smooth shot.  Way too much going on with his motion/or lack of.



Mechanics are formed in middle school, you don't jack with them at this level. The number of great college shooters with horrible mechanics is long.

Great college shooters????

I thought this thread was about Dom??? :dunno:
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: michigancat on February 22, 2010, 03:11:58 PM
Mechanics are formed in middle school, you don't jack with them at this level.

This is not true.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: mcmwcat on February 22, 2010, 03:14:44 PM
Mechanics are formed in middle school, you don't jack with them at this level.

This is not true.

if it were true there'd be about 2 good shooters on the planet.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kougar24 on February 22, 2010, 03:18:10 PM
Mechanics are formed in middle school, you don't jack with them at this level.

This is not true.

Fred Brown had terrible mechanics. Should we have fixed them?
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: michigancat on February 22, 2010, 03:20:11 PM
Mechanics are formed in middle school, you don't jack with them at this level.

This is not true.

if it were true there'd be about 2 good shooters on the planet.


True.  Coaches who coach middle school kids, on average, are some of the worst basketball minds imaginable.

Mechanics are formed in middle school, you don't jack with them at this level.

This is not true.

Fred Brown had terrible mechanics. Should we have fixed them?

Yes, we absolutely should have tried to get his release higher.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kougar24 on February 22, 2010, 03:22:58 PM
Mechanics are formed in middle school, you don't jack with them at this level.

This is not true.

if it were true there'd be about 2 good shooters on the planet.


True.  Coaches who coach middle school kids, on average, are some of the worst basketball minds imaginable.


I agree, which is why there are so many players will terrible/weird mechanics out there, by traditional standards.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: CNS on February 22, 2010, 03:25:11 PM
Mechanics are formed in middle school, you don't jack with them at this level.

This is not true.

Fred Brown had terrible mechanics. Should we have fixed them?

Not only should we have, but Frank actually mentioned trying to change it during Fred's Frosh year.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: michigancat on February 22, 2010, 03:35:01 PM
Mechanics are formed in middle school, you don't jack with them at this level.

This is not true.

if it were true there'd be about 2 good shooters on the planet.


True.  Coaches who coach middle school kids, on average, are some of the worst basketball minds imaginable.


I agree, which is why there are so many players will terrible/weird mechanics out there, by traditional standards.


You don't see many in college.  You really don't.  The Fred Browns of the world are few and far between.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kougar24 on February 22, 2010, 04:07:29 PM
Mechanics are formed in middle school, you don't jack with them at this level.

This is not true.

if it were true there'd be about 2 good shooters on the planet.


True.  Coaches who coach middle school kids, on average, are some of the worst basketball minds imaginable.


I agree, which is why there are so many players will terrible/weird mechanics out there, by traditional standards.


You don't see many in college.  You really don't.  The Fred Browns of the world are few and far between.

Eh, you could be right; I guess it depends on how strict your definition of good form is.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: pissclams on February 22, 2010, 04:10:18 PM
rusty's definition of 'good form' is very strict, some might say it's the strictest out there.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kougar24 on February 22, 2010, 04:12:58 PM
rusty's definition of 'good form' is very strict, some might say it's the strictest out there.

I could see this. Rus' isn't very flexible on any of his life rules. Yoga before 6AM, every day. JJ Reddick-like form, every shot. Etc.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: SleepFighter on February 22, 2010, 04:15:05 PM
rusty's definition of 'good form' is very strict, some might say it's the strictest out there.

Eh, you could be right;  I guess it depends on how strict your definition of some is.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: Cire on February 22, 2010, 05:05:47 PM
Is dom's form really that bad? 

Also, it opens our post up a ton.  Dom is one of our better post feeders and his guy now has to play 2 or 3 steps closer to dom/ further from helping out on the post guy.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: michigancat on February 22, 2010, 05:11:47 PM
Kougs didn't say there aren't many with "good" form, he said there were a lot w/ "miserable/weird" form, which simply isn't true.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: CNS on February 22, 2010, 05:22:25 PM
Is dom's form really that bad? 

Also, it opens our post up a ton.  Dom is one of our better post feeders and his guy now has to play 2 or 3 steps closer to dom/ further from helping out on the post guy.

It's not that his form is horrible, but his overall motion is very awkward.  It also varies.  Sometimes very slow(overly so) and deliberate, other times very quick and rushed looking. 

I can't say that I have seen him take a shot that is longer than 15' and thought that it looked smooth.  Not saying he isn't effective.  But his long ball is ugly.

I do love that he is hitting from outside.  It's been said, but this will only help our post game and Dom's slashing.  It will be easier for him to get around his guy if his guy doesn't have 4 or 5 feet to read him and then react.  This could improve the rate that he actually finishes the ball on this drives, rather than just getting to the line.

As long as his shooting proves to be more than just a short lived streak, it will only improve our offense and create more minutes for Dom.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: Joker on February 22, 2010, 05:30:41 PM
Lots of HBBIQ being displayed here.  Nice work fellas.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: felix rex on February 22, 2010, 05:47:19 PM
Just force yourself to remember that 0-13 debacle in the second round against Wisconsin, with the guy guarding Dom able to keep one foot in the paint at all times. That's huge. But seriously, this will hurt us in the long run.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: waldo on February 22, 2010, 06:09:14 PM
Dom is a shooting machine in warm ups...I focused on him during warm ups for the CU game and I swear I didn't seem him miss a 3 pointer...it was amazing (this was before he actually made a shot during a real game).  It's not his mechanics, it's his melon.  His shot is a little slow, but who cares?  He's not going to jack up 10 3's a night with a defender draped all over him.  He needs to hit them when he gets open (when his defender challenges him to shoot hit)...he'll have all the time he needs to get it off.  His ability to keep his defender honest is a HUGE positive for our offense.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: yosh on February 22, 2010, 06:10:48 PM
It also varies.  Sometimes very slow(overly so) and deliberate, other times very quick and rushed looking. 


This is a bigger issue than simply having an ugly form, and could be a side effect of lack of cofindence.  If he's second guessing himself when he takes shots,  it'll show up in this manner.  Honestly, I've not noticed this, but it's not like there is a large sample size to look at.  It'll be interesting to see if some confidence leads to a consistent stroke.  How pretty it is doesn't concern me as much as how consistent it looks (and obviously how often it goes in)
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kso_FAN on February 22, 2010, 07:26:57 PM
Most of you weren't around during the elite "Rusty's shooting form critiques" from back in the day.  Good times.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kougar24 on February 22, 2010, 08:02:00 PM
Most of you weren't around during the elite "Rusty's shooting form critiques" from back in the day.  Good times.

I've been here/there literally the whole time you have.

And mich, I still contend there are many shooters out there with bad form. Prove me wrong. :dunno:
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: michigancat on February 22, 2010, 08:47:15 PM
Most of you weren't around during the elite "Rusty's shooting form critiques" from back in the day.  Good times.

I've been here/there literally the whole time you have.

And mich, I still contend there are many shooters out there with bad form. Prove me wrong. :dunno:

Name 12 w/ "bad form" in the Big 12.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: sys on February 22, 2010, 08:55:35 PM
Most of you weren't around during the elite "Rusty's shooting form critiques" from back in the day.  Good times.

I've been here/there literally the whole time you have.

And mich, I still contend there are many shooters out there with bad form. Prove me wrong. :dunno:

Name 12 w/ "bad form" in the Big 12.

.... lance harris....
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 22, 2010, 09:01:54 PM
Plus, now he can start going around people who have to come out on him.

Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: chum1 on February 22, 2010, 09:02:52 PM
If I was his shooting coach, the first thing I'd do would be to teach him how to slap people in the face with his follow through like Kobe Bryant.  I'd also advise him to grow his fingernails out a bit and cut them into dagger-like shapes.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kougar24 on February 23, 2010, 09:42:20 AM
Most of you weren't around during the elite "Rusty's shooting form critiques" from back in the day.  Good times.

I've been here/there literally the whole time you have.

And mich, I still contend there are many shooters out there with bad form. Prove me wrong. :dunno:

Name 12 w/ "bad form" in the Big 12.

I don't write them down when I see them, but give me some time and I'll find you 12. I'll give you off the top of my head: Dunn, Aldrich, most Mizzou players not named Kim English, Denis Clemente, Bryan Davis.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: yoga-like_abana on February 23, 2010, 09:47:24 AM
Why is it Leftys always seem to have the sweetest stroke whether its bball or baseball.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: michigancat on February 23, 2010, 09:56:30 AM
Most of you weren't around during the elite "Rusty's shooting form critiques" from back in the day.  Good times.

I've been here/there literally the whole time you have.

And mich, I still contend there are many shooters out there with bad form. Prove me wrong. :dunno:

Name 12 w/ "bad form" in the Big 12.

I don't write them down when I see them, but give me some time and I'll find you 12. I'll give you off the top of my head: Dunn, Aldrich, most Mizzou players not named Kim English, Denis Clemente, Bryan Davis.

You're wrong about Dunn and Clemente.  They don't get much elevation, but their form isn't "miserable/weird".  Never seen Bryan Davis shoot anything beyond 3 ft, so can't comment.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: pissclams on February 23, 2010, 10:04:10 AM
i think Cole has great form for the position he plays, they aren't supposed to be shooting jumpers.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kougar24 on February 23, 2010, 10:12:04 AM
Most of you weren't around during the elite "Rusty's shooting form critiques" from back in the day.  Good times.

I've been here/there literally the whole time you have.

And mich, I still contend there are many shooters out there with bad form. Prove me wrong. :dunno:

Name 12 w/ "bad form" in the Big 12.

I don't write them down when I see them, but give me some time and I'll find you 12. I'll give you off the top of my head: Dunn, Aldrich, most Mizzou players not named Kim English, Denis Clemente, Bryan Davis.

You're wrong about Dunn and Clemente.  They don't get much elevation, but their form isn't "miserable/weird".  Never seen Bryan Davis shoot anything beyond 3 ft, so can't comment.

You didn't ask for "miserable/weird," you asked for "bad form." A set shot (Clems and Dunn) is bad form, technically speaking.

As for Aldrich and Davis, watch their FTs.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: michigancat on February 23, 2010, 10:14:43 AM
A set shot (Clems and Dunn) is bad form, technically speaking.

Not really.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kougar24 on February 23, 2010, 10:18:51 AM
A set shot (Clems and Dunn) is bad form, technically speaking.

Not really.

True. It's really encouraged it women's basketball.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: SleepFighter on February 23, 2010, 10:20:48 AM
Why is it Leftys always seem to have the sweetest stroke whether its bball or baseball.

I could just watch Johnny Damon's swing all day.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: bleedpurple on February 23, 2010, 10:24:41 AM
Most of you weren't around during the elite "Rusty's shooting form critiques" from back in the day.  Good times.

I've been here/there literally the whole time you have.

And mich, I still contend there are many shooters out there with bad form. Prove me wrong. :dunno:

Name 12 w/ "bad form" in the Big 12.

I don't write them down when I see them, but give me some time and I'll find you 12. I'll give you off the top of my head: Dunn, Aldrich, most Mizzou players not named Kim English, Denis Clemente, Bryan Davis.

You're wrong about Dunn and Clemente.  They don't get much elevation, but their form isn't "miserable/weird".  Never seen Bryan Davis shoot anything beyond 3 ft, so can't comment.

You didn't ask for "miserable/weird," you asked for "bad form." A set shot (Clems and Dunn) is bad form, technically speaking.

As for Aldrich and Davis, watch their FTs.

Why is a set shot bad form? The ball should be held somewhere above your right eye, not too high though. Your legs should be in rhythm with your arms so your release is finished at the peak of your jump. Elbow should be in at around a 90 degree angle, give or take 10 or 15 degree, not going to be a stickler. Should be a straight line form from your head to your toes w/ a SLIGHT lean backwards allowed in the upper body. You should have your finger tips on the ball and not your palm, snap your shooting hand forward and follow through. Make sure you're square with the rim, unless going to your off hand side. I don't see anything wrong with Clemente's form or Dunn's form in this respect. Sutton's biggest problem, besides confidence, is rhythm. A guy like that should explode vertically and release at the peak. Instead when Sutton comes off a screen he gains all this energy and momentum of that screen or whatever he may be doing to gain that energy and when he catches the ball, he shuts down, slows down, and tries to guide it up, instead of exploding towards the rim. No rhythm at all.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kougar24 on February 23, 2010, 10:26:41 AM
Because a set shot limits your ability to get your shot off in the first place.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: bleedpurple on February 23, 2010, 10:39:09 AM
Because a set shot limits your ability to get your shot off in the first place.
No, no it doesn't. Dunn and Clemente are two of the best shooters in the big 12 and you're telling us they have trouble getting their shot off. Where a set shot lacks in height of release it makes up for in how quickly you can get it off. Dunn and Clemente can their shot off quick so there is no need for extra elevation. Anyone Jamar's height doesn't need to elevate, the ball is already 7 or 8 ft above the ground before they release it. And just because it is more difficult to get a shot off, doesn't mean that it is "bad form". That doesn't make sense, you should reword that probably.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: EllToPay on February 23, 2010, 10:42:46 AM
Because a set shot limits your ability to get your shot off in the first place.

:powerespect:
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kougar24 on February 23, 2010, 10:47:02 AM
Because a set shot limits your ability to get your shot off in the first place.
No, no it doesn't. Dunn and Clemente are two of the best shooters in the big 12 and you're telling us they have trouble getting their shot off. Where a set shot lacks in height of release it makes up for in how quickly you can get it off. Dunn and Clemente can their shot off quick so there is no need for extra elevation. Anyone Jamar's height doesn't need to elevate, the ball is already 7 or 8 ft above the ground before they release it. And just because it is more difficult to get a shot off, doesn't mean that it is "bad form". That doesn't make sense, you should reword that probably.

I didn't say I had a problem with their shots, I said technically speaking, it isn't how coaches would teach you to shoot.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: CNS on February 23, 2010, 10:54:40 AM
B.E.E.F.

Ball
Elbow
Eye
Feet

Not what I was talking about at all.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: bleedpurple on February 23, 2010, 10:57:13 AM
Because a set shot limits your ability to get your shot off in the first place.
No, no it doesn't. Dunn and Clemente are two of the best shooters in the big 12 and you're telling us they have trouble getting their shot off. Where a set shot lacks in height of release it makes up for in how quickly you can get it off. Dunn and Clemente can their shot off quick so there is no need for extra elevation. Anyone Jamar's height doesn't need to elevate, the ball is already 7 or 8 ft above the ground before they release it. And just because it is more difficult to get a shot off, doesn't mean that it is "bad form". That doesn't make sense, you should reword that probably.

I didn't say I had a problem with their shots, I said technically speaking, it isn't how coaches would teach you to shoot.

Not really. They teach you to shoot that way in grade school then you develop your personal shot from that, one that works for you. Around Jr. High they might suggest a jump shot because you become strong enough around that time to shoot that way, but in 3 years of college ball, not one person said anything to anyone, jump shooters or set shooters how they should shoot while I was there. Coaches prefer that you put the ball in the hole regardless.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: SleepFighter on February 23, 2010, 11:05:49 AM
Because a set shot limits your ability to get your shot off in the first place.
No, no it doesn't. Dunn and Clemente are two of the best shooters in the big 12 and you're telling us they have trouble getting their shot off. Where a set shot lacks in height of release it makes up for in how quickly you can get it off. Dunn and Clemente can their shot off quick so there is no need for extra elevation. Anyone Jamar's height doesn't need to elevate, the ball is already 7 or 8 ft above the ground before they release it. And just because it is more difficult to get a shot off, doesn't mean that it is "bad form". That doesn't make sense, you should reword that probably.

I didn't say I had a problem with their shots, I said technically speaking, it isn't how coaches would teach you to shoot.

Even if this was true, and I have no idea what the consensus among coaches on this would be, WGAF? 

Lots of coaches believe in all kinds of ridiculous stuff that doesn't help their teams win, from shooting too many mid-range jumpers, to under utilizing zone defenses, to burning most of the shot clock in late game situs when the opponent will be given equal or greater time to your team to actually convert.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: pissclams on February 23, 2010, 11:12:31 AM
who cares about the form of a guy's free throw shot, it doesn't matter.  the only reason form matters at all is because you don't have time to think about all the stuff you need to think about when shooting j's so you need to limit/control all variables and shoot without needing to think about it  -hence the need for good and repetitive form.  

Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: SleepFighter on February 23, 2010, 11:14:08 AM
who cares about the form of a guy's free throw shot, it doesn't matter.  the only reason form matters at all is because you don't have time to think about all the stuff you need to think about when shooting j's so you need to limit/control all variables and shoot without needing to think about it  -hence the need for good and repetitive form.  



I like it when people answer their own questions.  Makes for efficient message boarding.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: pissclams on February 23, 2010, 11:21:39 AM
even better when posters read the post before responding to it. 

j's vs ft's.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: SleepFighter on February 23, 2010, 11:30:24 AM
limit/control all variables and shoot without needing to think about it

This is applicable to both fts and js.  Also, pitching, bowling, throwing darts, shooting pool, curling, putting.... 
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kougar24 on February 23, 2010, 11:35:36 AM
Around Jr. High they might suggest a jump shot because you become strong enough around that time to shoot that way, but in 3 years of college ball, not one person said anything to anyone, jump shooters or set shooters how they should shoot while I was there.

Mechanics are formed in middle school, you don't jack with them at this level.


:dunno:
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: michigancat on February 23, 2010, 11:38:23 AM
this thread makes my head hurt.  (and I know it's my fault).
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kougar24 on February 23, 2010, 12:10:22 PM
this thread makes my head hurt.  (and I know it's my fault).

And I even entered this thread by agreeing with you on Dom. Damn you and your magnetic posting style.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kso_FAN on February 23, 2010, 12:10:57 PM
this thread makes my head hurt.  (and I know it's my fault).

And I even entered this thread by agreeing with you on Dom. Damn you and your magnetic posting style.

Rusty is the kietz of message boarding.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kougar24 on February 23, 2010, 12:17:23 PM
this thread makes my head hurt.  (and I know it's my fault).

And I even entered this thread by agreeing with you on Dom. Damn you and your magnetic posting style.

Rusty is the kietz of message boarding.

Great comparo.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: bleedpurple on February 23, 2010, 12:22:03 PM
Around Jr. High they might suggest a jump shot because you become strong enough around that time to shoot that way, but in 3 years of college ball, not one person said anything to anyone, jump shooters or set shooters how they should shoot while I was there.

Mechanics are formed in middle school, you don't jack with them at this level.


:dunno:

So your point is? Clemente doesn't have bad form and they really don't prefer a certain shot?
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: pissclams on February 23, 2010, 12:22:17 PM
limit/control all variables and shoot without needing to think about it

This is applicable to both fts and js.  Also, pitching, bowling, throwing darts, shooting pool, curling, putting....  
sure it does, but ft's and j's aren't the same.  i think.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: _33 on February 23, 2010, 12:35:12 PM
There is no "good" form or "bad" form. Consistency is all that matters.  If you consistently make shots using "bad" form then is it really "bad" form, or just unique.  Inconsistent form is what leads to bad shooting.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: michigancat on February 23, 2010, 01:10:12 PM
There is no "good" form or "bad" form. Consistency is all that matters.  If you consistently make shots using "bad" form then is it really "bad" form, or just unique.  Inconsistent form is what leads to bad shooting.

It is easier to be more consistent if you use proper form.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kougar24 on February 23, 2010, 01:11:59 PM
Around Jr. High they might suggest a jump shot because you become strong enough around that time to shoot that way, but in 3 years of college ball, not one person said anything to anyone, jump shooters or set shooters how they should shoot while I was there.

Mechanics are formed in middle school, you don't jack with them at this level.


:dunno:

So your point is?

I said the exact same thing you did. :dunno:
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: SleepFighter on February 23, 2010, 01:17:59 PM
limit/control all variables and shoot without needing to think about it

This is applicable to both fts and js.  Also, pitching, bowling, throwing darts, shooting pool, curling, putting....  
sure it does, but ft's and j's aren't the same.  i think.

hair splitter
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: pissclams on February 23, 2010, 01:29:24 PM
limit/control all variables and shoot without needing to think about it

This is applicable to both fts and js.  Also, pitching, bowling, throwing darts, shooting pool, curling, putting.... 
sure it does, but ft's and j's aren't the same.  i think.

hair splitter
you're wrong, i'm not going to argue.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: PandaXpanda on February 23, 2010, 01:31:42 PM
If you bring a player in to your program under the assumption that he is going to be a shooter then for the most part you let him shoot with his own form that he is comfortable with (i.e. Denis).  The only time you mess with a perimeter shooter's approach is if they have a low, Fred Brown, release point.  There is a huge transition from hs, where that might work, and college, where your shot selection greatly decreases.  Dom, on the other hand, is a perfect example of a situation where spending time on proper mechanics is worth it.  His shot is timid and lacks confidence, but these are problems that can be fixed.  He needs to stop second guessing his shot and just let it fly, that insecure hesitation kills him.  He fades/leans too much on his jumpers, even if he's open, whether it be forwards or backwards,  and doesn't follow through.  He needs to learn to find a focal point, like the back of the rim, and watch the shot all the way through every singe time.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: CNS on February 23, 2010, 01:32:24 PM
There is no "good" form or "bad" form. Consistency is all that matters.  If you consistently make shots using "bad" form then is it really "bad" form, or just unique.  Inconsistent form is what leads to bad shooting.

Form helps consistency.  For example, a low release will get your crap swatted more often than a high release.  
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: felix rex on February 23, 2010, 01:36:29 PM
There is no "good" form or "bad" form. Consistency is all that matters.  If you consistently make shots using "bad" form then is it really "bad" form, or just unique.  Inconsistent form is what leads to bad shooting.

This is like saying there's no bad golf swing.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: PandaXpanda on February 23, 2010, 01:39:46 PM
There is no "good" form or "bad" form. Consistency is all that matters.  If you consistently make shots using "bad" form then is it really "bad" form, or just unique.  Inconsistent form is what leads to bad shooting.

This is like saying there's no bad golf swing.

I agree w/ _33, but only with proven shooters.  Proven meaning perimeter shooters that can consistently hit shots regardless of who's guarding them.  Reggie Miller's shot was horrendous, yet he was a prolific shooter. 
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: yoga-like_abana on February 23, 2010, 02:02:16 PM
who cares about the form of a guy's free throw shot, it doesn't matter.  


true but I do get laughed at a lot for granny style.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: pissclams on February 23, 2010, 02:10:28 PM
who cares about the form of a guy's free throw shot, it doesn't matter. 


true but I do get laughed at a lot for granny style.
might need to check out michigancat's pick up ball thread to know how to act when this happens
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: _33 on February 23, 2010, 02:14:14 PM
There is no "good" form or "bad" form. Consistency is all that matters.  If you consistently make shots using "bad" form then is it really "bad" form, or just unique.  Inconsistent form is what leads to bad shooting.

It is easier to be more consistent if you use proper form.

I guess.  I still think I'm right for the most part.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: cas4ksu on February 23, 2010, 02:57:49 PM
Why is it Leftys always seem to have the sweetest stroke whether its bball or baseball.

asked Frank this at the fry. frank =  :dunno:
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: CatsFan_58 on February 23, 2010, 03:02:18 PM
A set shot (Clems and Dunn) is bad form, technically speaking.

Not really.

True. It's really encouraged it women's basketball.
Billy Walker's set shot from 3 was cash.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: kougar24 on February 23, 2010, 03:27:29 PM
A set shot (Clems and Dunn) is bad form, technically speaking.

Not really.

True. It's really encouraged it women's basketball.
Billy Walker's set shot from 3 was cash.

30.7% = "cash"?
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: chum1 on February 23, 2010, 03:32:09 PM
If you put HBBIQ in your thread title, this kind of crap is bound to happen.
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: the masta blasta on February 23, 2010, 04:28:27 PM
Why is it Leftys always seem to have the sweetest stroke whether its bball or baseball.

luis colon  :love:
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: deputy dawg on February 23, 2010, 05:39:43 PM
B.E.E.F.

Ball
Elbow
Eye
Feet

Not what I was talking about at all.

Rhymes with Q.U.E.E.F.
Queer

Underwater

Eels

Eat

Farts
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: EllToPay on February 23, 2010, 05:42:56 PM
If you put HBBIQ in your thread title, this kind of crap is bound to happen.

:bball:
Title: Re: HBBIQ Topic Re: Dom
Post by: felix rex on February 24, 2010, 06:53:31 AM
There is no "good" form or "bad" form. Consistency is all that matters.  If you consistently make shots using "bad" form then is it really "bad" form, or just unique.  Inconsistent form is what leads to bad shooting.

It is easier to be more consistent if you use proper form.

I guess.  I still think I'm right for the most part.

There's definitely a balance between consistency and mechanics. But the fact remains that there is a "best way" to shoot a basketball", mechanic-wise. Someone with bad mechanics can compensate with exceptional consistency, but they''ll never be as good as they could be if they had proper mechanics+consistency. Loft, spin, trajectory, etc. There's a reason that Hank Luisetti and Kenny Sailors are regarded as innovators. They found a "better way" to shoot a basketball.