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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: nicname on March 23, 2011, 10:02:43 PM
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What are we expecting from this kid. He was a 4* guy, yet I don't feel that most have particularly high hopes for him. HBBIQrs and HRecruitingIQrs chime in.
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he will raise our adorable rating
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I hope he isn't as much of a disappointment as Shane Southwell is/was.
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I hope he isn't as much of a disappointment as Shane Southwell is/was.
You serious Clark? Shane was pretty valuable for a 3* frosh.
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he will raise our adorable rating
smiles while getting buckets :blush:
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Nino is a f*cking Baller
Anyone who says otherwise is a real dipshit.
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I hope he isn't as much of a disappointment as Shane Southwell is/was.
You serious Clark? Shane was pretty valuable for a 3* frosh.
Put in the perspective of our most recent McDAA, *** Southwell was far from a disappointment.
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I hope he isn't as much of a disappointment as Shane Southwell is/was.
:bait: :ck:
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buddy of mine that played with him in the KS/MO high school all-star game last year says he's the real deal. second best athlete he's been around.
he also says he's a doucehbag.
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David Hoskins part 2 :powerespect:
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buddy of mine that played with him in the KS/MO high school all-star game last year says he's the real deal. second best athlete he's been around.
he also says he's a doucehbag.
tell your friend to suck a dick, i see A LOT of Nino, dude is a straight A adorable human who gets a lot of ass, would give Omari a run for his money. Also is fun to share an elevator with a funny dude with many jokes :combofan:
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Dude had the second most effective jump shot of all the new guys coming into the year...that was evident enough by watching him in the games played in...Any open 3 point jumper he took went in. Not saying he is a 3 pt specialist or anything just that he had an unorthodox yet effective stroke(at least on TV) and I imagine he will provide us with quite a bit of scoring punch either off the bench or in lieu of S.Southwell at the off guard 2/3 spot.
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small hands (relative to his height) :embarrassed:
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small hands (relative to his height) :embarrassed:
Yeah, not a good sign, imo.
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Why do you think he reshirted this year???? and no it wasn't a concusion....immuture as a nat....the proof will be if he is willing to be coached...toughened up and maned up by the staff...if so...we will be very happy...
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He's a Sutton clone on defense/rebounding. Great size and athleticism. Unlike Sutton, he's a very good shooter. His weakness is ball handling/turnovers. Used the term 'star' if he can get the latter issue fixed. --a previous AAU coach I spoke with a couple weeks ago.
Naturally, he's going to be biased being that it's one of his former players. He had very high remarks for Spradling (says that we're all racists essentially...I mean we're all as in don't like Spradling folks). Cauley isn't coming. Burks would have came if offered earlier because they almost had to be Colorado to take him.
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I heard he is really rough ridin' stupid. :ck:
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Why do you think he reshirted this year???? and no it wasn't a concusion....immuture as a nat....the proof will be if he is willing to be coached...toughened up and maned up by the staff...if so...we will be very happy...
I want to be maned up.
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I have no idea. Williams played 19 total minutes, there is no way you can say anything about his abilities based on that. All I know is he gives us another long athlete, we'll see about his skill level.
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Why do you think he reshirted this year???? and no it wasn't a concusion....immuture as a nat....the proof will be if he is willing to be coached...toughened up and maned up by the staff...if so...we will be very happy...
I want to be maned up.
JFC, when did this place become Love Connection.
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I hope he likes to dunk on bitches :alleyoop:
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I have no idea. Williams played 19 total minutes, there is no way you can say anything about his abilities based on that. All I know is he gives us another long athlete, we'll see about his skill level.
My info was from a MoKan coach.
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I have no idea. Williams played 19 total minutes, there is no way you can say anything about his abilities based on that. All I know is he gives us another long athlete, we'll see about his skill level.
My info was from a MoKan coach.
Thanks. That's what I hope he can be; as long as he can defend, rebound and hit a few shots I'm good. If he has handles and becomes a star, that would be even better.
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Why do you think he reshirted this year???? and no it wasn't a concusion....immuture as a nat....the proof will be if he is willing to be coached...toughened up and maned up by the staff...if so...we will be very happy...
I want to be maned up.
JFC, when did this place become Love Connection.
It's a haircut reference.
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small hands (relative to his height) :embarrassed:
Yeah, not a good sign, imo.
small hands = small weenie. not a good sign... for the ladies.
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small hands (relative to his height) :embarrassed:
Yeah, not a good sign, imo.
small hands = small weenie. not a good sign... for the ladies.
This is a fact, know from experience...sorry Nino, I feel for ya.
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small hands (relative to his height) :embarrassed:
Yeah, not a good sign, imo.
small hands = small weenie. not a good sign... for the ladies.
This is fact. :embarrassed:
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Ok I must admit that I am confused. I thought smaller hands tended to make you a better shooter while larger hands(for a perimeter player) helps you be a better ball handler...have I confused this? I thought the reason Rondo is such a great handler but not a shooter was because his hands were too big.
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Ok I must admit that I am confused. I thought smaller hands tended to make you a better shooter while larger hands(for a perimeter player) helps you be a better ball handler
that sounds rough ridin' stupid
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Ok I must admit that I am confused. I thought smaller hands tended to make you a better shooter while larger hands(for a perimeter player) helps you be a better ball handler
that sounds effing stupid
It is actually what nba guys say about Rondo and his inability to develop a consistent jumpshot.
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Ok I must admit that I am confused. I thought smaller hands tended to make you a better shooter while larger hands(for a perimeter player) helps you be a better ball handler
that sounds effing stupid
It is actually what nba guys say about Rondo and his inability to develop a consistent jumpshot.
NBA guys sound rough ridin' stupid.
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Ok I must admit that I am confused. I thought smaller hands tended to make you a better shooter while larger hands(for a perimeter player) helps you be a better ball handler...have I confused this? I thought the reason Rondo is such a great handler but not a shooter was because his hands were too big.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clevercaption.com%2FuploadedImages%2Fbud%2F_midget-basketball-players.jpg&hash=8abd52a92b818f76f36dbb856285c3f15ce54b1c)
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small hands (relative to his height) :embarrassed:
Yeah, not a good sign, imo.
small hands = small weenie. not a good sign... for the ladies.
he has other factors working for him.
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I hope he isn't as much of a disappointment as Shane Southwell is/was.
:bait: :ck:
I just hate him. The other thing that I just don't understand is why people think he is a good player.
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I thought smaller hands tended to make you a better shooter while larger hands(for a perimeter player) helps you be a better ball handler...have I confused this?
Good hand size discussion...
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53242
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Ok I must admit that I am confused. I thought smaller hands tended to make you a better shooter while larger hands(for a perimeter player) helps you be a better ball handler
that sounds effing stupid
It is actually what nba guys say about Rondo and his inability to develop a consistent jumpshot.
SI had a life sized print of MJ's hand in the mag many years ago. It took up the page. I have big hands and it dwarfed my by an inch or more.
Shooter vs hands is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).
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my small hands won the KoC free-throw shooting contest in 7th grade. guess that shows size really does NOT matter :emawkid:
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:bracketmouse: to ask Mario if bigger hands are better for sinkin' ho's or ball handling
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I hope he isn't as much of a disappointment as Shane Southwell is/was.
:bait: :ck:
I just hate him. The other thing that I just don't understand is why people think he is a good player.
This. I really don't think he is that good either. His defense is average and his offense is pathetic.
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I hope he isn't as much of a disappointment as Shane Southwell is/was.
:bait: :ck:
I just hate him. The other thing that I just don't understand is why people think he is a good player.
This. I really don't think he is that good either. His defense is average and his offense is pathetic.
Your hate seems a little overzealous, if not altogether misplaced.
He was a *** true freshman who provided some needed, and on occasion, quality minutes.
Considering his age and experience I think his defense would have to be considered above average.
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From my LBBIQ eyes, Shane had the best vision out there, other than Jake.
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I hope he isn't as much of a disappointment as Shane Southwell is/was.
:bait: :ck:
I just hate him. The other thing that I just don't understand is why people think he is a good player.
This. I really don't think he is that good either. His defense is average and his offense is pathetic.
Other than the Texas game, the only thing that Southwell did for the Cats this year is...he improved the team picture.
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I hope he isn't as much of a disappointment as Shane Southwell is/was.
:bait: :ck:
I just hate him. The other thing that I just don't understand is why people think he is a good player.
This. I really don't think he is that good either. His defense is average and his offense is pathetic.
Other than the Texas game, the only thing that Southwell did for the Cats this year is...he improved the team picture.
His stat line is not that good, not that bad. He did come out as true freshman, start 14 of 15 conference games, played with confidence and improved.
What were you guys expecting from Shane? How did your expectations get so inflated?
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I think shane will be pretty solid next year. liked his play this year.
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he was horrible this year, but his potential as a defender is pretty obvious.
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he was horrible this year, but his potential as a defender is pretty obvious.
If he ever becomes an average offensive player, he'll be a heck of a player.
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he was horrible this year, but his potential as a defender is pretty obvious.
If he ever becomes an average offensive player, he'll be a heck of a player.
I don't ever see Southwell becoming more than a poor man's Dom. Shooting is about equally as horrendous. Defensively, Dom was quite a ways ahead of SS at this point, IMO. Passing, SS is better clearly. His passing can be negated relatively easy if the other team is smart enough to sag off him (or go box and 1) and make him do something offensively.
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he was horrible this year, but his potential as a defender is pretty obvious.
If he ever becomes an average offensive player, he'll be a heck of a player.
I don't ever see Southwell becoming more than a poor man's Dom. Shooting is about equally as horrendous. Defensively, Dom was quite a ways ahead of SS at this point, IMO. Passing, SS is better clearly. His passing can be negated relatively easy if the other team is smart enough to sag off him (or go box and 1) and make him do something offensively.
he's already more valuable than post-frosh Dom. Dom's D went downhill, his confidence was on perpetual life support, and he added nothing offensively, save for finishing run outs..
both are without jump shots but shane has the balls to at least shoot out to the perimeter if he's open. dom would not. except that one nebraska game.
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he's already more valuable than post-frosh Dom. Dom's D went downhill.
lol, no.
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he's already more valuable than post-frosh Dom. Dom's D went downhill.
lol, no.
lol. yes. stop being a tard about dom. shane's bbiq is significantly higher.
the Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) dom love is one of the more Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) things that goes on here.
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he's already more valuable than post-frosh Dom. Dom's D went downhill.
lol, no.
lol. yes. stop being a tard about dom. shane's bbiq is significantly higher.
the Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) dom love is one of the more Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) things that goes on here.
I remember Dom's first game, thinking he was going to be Bill-like with that athleticism. Sad really how he progressively got worse and then took his ball and went home
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the revisionist hate is stupider. you're either dramatically overrating his freshmen defense or dramatically underrating his subsequent defense. either way, the idea that he regressed defensively is indefensible.
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What are we expecting from this kid. He was a 4* guy, yet I don't feel that most have particularly high hopes for him. HBBIQrs and HRecruitingIQrs chime in.
I haven't seen enough of Williams to know how good he can be, but Rivals doesn't just hand out 4-stars to anybody. He obviously has some skill and some raw athletic ability... the question is whether or not K-State's coaching staff will be able to turn that into a solid Big 12 level player. My guess is that Williams will develop into a Travis Releford type of player for K-State. He'll be a guy who can come in for 10-15 minutes of really solid up-in-your-face defense, and he might even score a few baskets in the process.
As for Southwell, I think he's got a chance to be a really good player for K-State. His shot isn't there yet, but he seems to have a good feel for the game, and his length can create problems for opposing guards. I would expect Southwell to start next season along with Spradling (who is going to be a stud), McGruder (stud), Samuels (I expect him to have a Darnell Jackson-like senior season), and Roberts (owned the Morris twins in Manhattan and should continue to improve). K-State will obviously miss Pullen next season, but the overall future is bright.
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:horrorsurprise:
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the revisionist hate is stupider. you're either dramatically overrating his freshmen defense or dramatically underrating his subsequent defense. either way, the idea that he regressed defensively is indefensible.
if it was revisionist i would agree. but i've been anti-dom for a long time. and his d did suffer, because his confidence was so up and down. mostly down.
Quote from: kitten_mittons on July 02, 2010, 02:39:30 PM
Dudes, Dom wasn't that great. He made some great steals, transition dunks, and put backs, but other than that he didn't do much. I hated to see teams lay off him from 15 feet and he couldn't even put the ball close to going in.
Quote from: j-dub on July 02, 2010, 02:47:42 PM
this.
dude couldn't shoot a jump shot. also, was a headcase. he was the athletic version of energy.
bring it sys. i'm right here.
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that post was from after he left, so still revisionist. i agree that he couldn't shoot (as if anyone disagrees), have no idea if he was a headcase or not, his defense was significantly better as a soph/jr than as a freshman. great rebounder too.
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i don't see why anyone would expect anything out of nick this coming year. rodney avg'd 3ppg/2rpg in 12mpg his freshman year.
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What are we expecting from this kid. He was a 4* guy, yet I don't feel that most have particularly high hopes for him. HBBIQrs and HRecruitingIQrs chime in.
I haven't seen enough of Williams to know how good he can be, but Rivals doesn't just hand out 4-stars to anybody. He obviously has some skill and some raw athletic ability... the question is whether or not K-State's coaching staff will be able to turn that into a solid Big 12 level player. My guess is that Williams will develop into a Travis Releford type of player for K-State. He'll be a guy who can come in for 10-15 minutes of really solid up-in-your-face defense, and he might even score a few baskets in the process.
As for Southwell, I think he's got a chance to be a really good player for K-State. His shot isn't there yet, but he seems to have a good feel for the game, and his length can create problems for opposing guards. I would expect Southwell to start next season along with Spradling (who is going to be a stud), McGruder (stud), Samuels (I expect him to have a Darnell Jackson-like senior season), and Roberts (owned the Morris twins in Manhattan and should continue to improve). K-State will obviously miss Pullen next season, but the overall future is bright.
Your thoughts are appreciated.
I'd like to think scoring will come a little easier for Nino than say Dom or Shane. That would certainly be helpful as we figure out where our points will come from next year.
Also, considering how the season went for Nino, it's interesting to ponder whether his redshirt freshman year turns out to be more valuable than a competitive season in prep school would have been.
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i don't see why anyone would expect anything out of nick this coming year. rodney avg'd 3ppg/2rpg in 12mpg his freshman year.
'Gruds production out of Nino next year would be fine.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&dominique-sutton=2007-2008&p1=dominique-sutton&p2=shane-southwell&rodney-mcgruder=2009-2010
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he was horrible this year, but his potential as a defender is pretty obvious.
If he ever becomes an average offensive player, he'll be a heck of a player.
I don't ever see Southwell becoming more than a poor man's Dom. Shooting is about equally as horrendous. Defensively, Dom was quite a ways ahead of SS at this point, IMO. Passing, SS is better clearly. His passing can be negated relatively easy if the other team is smart enough to sag off him (or go box and 1) and make him do something offensively.
he's already more valuable than post-frosh Dom. Dom's D went downhill, his confidence was on perpetual life support, and he added nothing offensively, save for finishing run outs..
both are without jump shots but shane has the balls to at least shoot out to the perimeter if he's open. dom would not. except that one nebraska game.
Offensively, Dom provided finishing at the rim, slashing, as well as Orebounding. Shane hasn't even sniffed that yet. From what I've seen so far SS would be lucky to be compared to Dom.
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Shane and Dom are much different players with different skill sets. Both bad shooters, both good defenders, but different defender types. (all this based on very early returns on Shane of course).
Give another year or two before we get heavy with the Shane/Dom comparos, but at the end of the day Akeem/Shane comparos will be better. JMHO.
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that post was from after he left, so still revisionist. i agree that he couldn't shoot (as if anyone disagrees), have no idea if he was a headcase or not, his defense was significantly better as a soph/jr than as a freshman. great rebounder too.
those thoughts had fully matured well before dom played like cac against butler and rode off into the sunset.
but i digress. i just wasted an evening on an irrelevant talking point.
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yup.
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Akeem/Shane comparos will be better. JMHO.
nail on the head. can't believe i forgot about 'keem hitting the ft to make it 59-55.
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Yes, SS is def.more of a AW than a DS.
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Akeem/Shane comparos will be better. JMHO.
nail on the head. can't believe i forgot about 'keem hitting the ft to make it 59-55.
They are both lengthy guards, but i feel like shane can become more of a scorer than akeem was. i am an optimist, though. :dunno:
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southwell is a completely different player than ds or aw. unlike them, he contributes offensively as a distributor. he's already the best passer on the team and shows a lot of potential in that role. would you rather have another mediocre shooter out there shooting contested shots or shane in there helping to get the better shooters open looks? he's an asset on offense.
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i don't see why anyone would expect anything out of nick this coming year. rodney avg'd 3ppg/2rpg in 12mpg his freshman year.
'Gruds production out of Nino next year would be fine.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&dominique-sutton=2007-2008&p1=dominique-sutton&p2=shane-southwell&rodney-mcgruder=2009-2010
:lol:
Nick + rod talk. Rod + nino talk.
Link comparing rod, dom, shane. :confused:
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I think Nino's body type helped get him a 4th star as much as anything else.
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:lol: @ people that think Southwell's offense sucks. He didn't light anyone up this year (though did have a couple 4-4 fg/10 pt games), but I guarantee you by halfway through next year he'll be draining 15 footers with his eyes closed.
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:lol: @ people that think Southwell's offense sucks. He didn't light anyone on fire, but I guarantee you by halfway through next year he'll be draining 15 footers with his eyes closed.
I agree that his midrange looked just fine. His long ball and confidence are what is shaky. That can change with an offseason of owning bitches.
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:lol: @ people that think Southwell's offense sucks. He didn't light anyone up this year (though did have a couple 4-4 fg/10 pt games), but I guarantee you by halfway through next year he'll be draining 15 footers with his eyes closed.
What has he done to make you think that? The kid only averaged 7 pts a game as a senior in High School.
I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see anything from this kid that I like other than his wingspan.
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:lol: @ people that think Southwell's offense sucks. He didn't light anyone up this year (though did have a couple 4-4 fg/10 pt games), but I guarantee you by halfway through next year he'll be draining 15 footers with his eyes closed.
What has he done to make you think that? The kid only averaged 7 pts a game as a senior in High School.
I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see anything from this kid that I like other than his wingspan.
His vision looks to be decent. He needs to work on his handles and his long J. Those will be his undoing, if he doesn't get better at them.
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maybe they will both end up being really good :ck:
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No clue on Nino Williams right now. I like that he's long and lean, and that he'll be 20 years old before his RS-FR season begins. I also like that he played big in his biggest games in high school, but there's no way to tell how that translates without seeing more from him at this level.
As for Shane, after a jittery start, he played great in some big games in conference, until Frank started yanking around his playing time for having a couple of bad practices. Even still, he managed to tie Jake for second (behind Will) in conference A/TO ratio. That's not something that happens by accident--especially when your coach is teaching you "lessons" a lot by yanking your playing time around. He wasn't a great scorer, but that seemed to come more from a "know your role" kind of thing, than from any inherent fear the kid had of taking shots. He also had the 3rd most blocks, and the 3rd most steals in conference as well. Kid can play.
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he's an asset on offense.
totally disagree. when teams are begging him to shoot an unguarded 15 foot jumper, and he still doesn't shoot it, tells you about all you need to know about him as a liability on offense.
also, the talking point about shane being some sort of great passer is entirely over rated. martavious had a better a/to ratio.
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he's an asset on offense.
totally disagree. when teams are begging him to shoot an unguarded 15 foot jumper, and he still doesn't shoot it, tells you about all you need to know about him as a liability on offense.
also, the talking point about shane being some sort of great passer is entirely over rated. martavious had a better a/to ratio.
Shane>>>>>Martavious.
It's not even close. In the games that mattered (conference) Martavious pissed down his leg, with a 0.7 A/TO. Shane was second-best on the team (tied with Will) at 1.1 A/TO. Please don't ever compare a player with real upside (which Shane has) to Martavious. Irving is going to end up being little more than a high-energy guy off the bench.
Was Shane required to be a big scorer this year? No. But his offensive game is about setting other people up. Anyone with a basketball IQ of >0 could see that. And defensively, he was a huge asset, whenever Frank gave him the minutes to be one. Have we so quickly forgotten what he did to Jordan Hamilton?
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he's an asset on offense.
totally disagree. when teams are begging him to shoot an unguarded 15 foot jumper, and he still doesn't shoot it, tells you about all you need to know about him as a liability on offense.
also, the talking point about shane being some sort of great passer is entirely over rated. martavious had a better a/to ratio.
Shane>>>>>Martavious.
It's not even close. In the games that mattered (conference) Martavious pissed down his leg, with a 0.7 A/TO. Shane was second-best on the team (tied with Will) at 1.1 A/TO. Please don't ever compare a player with real upside (which Shane has) to Martavious. Irving is going to end up being little more than a high-energy guy off the bench.
Was Shane required to be a big scorer this year? No. But his offensive game is about setting other people up. Anyone with a basketball IQ of >0 could see that. And defensively, he was a huge asset, whenever Frank gave him the minutes to be one. Have we so quickly forgotten what he did to Jordan Hamilton?
i wasn't saying martavious was better than shane at all. just that his a/to ratio was better. and i'll concede that shane played very well in the UT game. then thinking of games off of the top of my head where he was a non-factor such as both ISU games and the CU game in the Big 12 tourney. defensively, he does clearly have potential. but until he puts something that resembles an offensive game outside of "distributing", then he's an average player at best in the big 12 and that's being pretty generous towards shane.
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he's an asset on offense.
totally disagree. when teams are begging him to shoot an unguarded 15 foot jumper, and he still doesn't shoot it, tells you about all you need to know about him as a liability on offense.
also, the talking point about shane being some sort of great passer is entirely over rated. martavious had a better a/to ratio.
Shane>>>>>Martavious.
It's not even close. In the games that mattered (conference) Martavious pissed down his leg, with a 0.7 A/TO. Shane was second-best on the team (tied with Will) at 1.1 A/TO. Please don't ever compare a player with real upside (which Shane has) to Martavious. Irving is going to end up being little more than a high-energy guy off the bench.
Was Shane required to be a big scorer this year? No. But his offensive game is about setting other people up. Anyone with a basketball IQ of >0 could see that. And defensively, he was a huge asset, whenever Frank gave him the minutes to be one. Have we so quickly forgotten what he did to Jordan Hamilton?
i wasn't saying martavious was better than shane at all. just that his a/to ratio was better. and i'll concede that shane played very well in the UT game. then thinking of games off of the top of my head where he was a non-factor such as both ISU games and the CU game in the Big 12 tourney. defensively, he does clearly have potential. but until he puts something that resembles an offensive game outside of "distributing", then he's an average player at best in the big 12 and that's being pretty generous towards shane.
You must be forgetting he was only a FRESHMEN! Cut him some slack, I see serious potential in Southwell. Now whether that comes to fruition or not, is yet to be seen.
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1.1 a/to ratio is awful. Please don't use that as a talking point to hype up your boy. I don't give a crap if it's 2nd or 3rd best on the team. Not like it's head and shoulders above Tay's .7 ratio.
As far as Tay pissing down his leg...he is one of 2 players to actually show up against Duke this year.
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1.1 a/to ratio is awful. Please don't use that as a talking point to hype up your boy. I don't give a crap if it's 2nd or 3rd best on the team. Not like it's head and shoulders above Tay's .7 ratio.
As far as Tay pissing down his leg...he is one of 2 players to actually show up against Duke this year.
Tay had a couple dece games toward the end of the year where he actually did more than just not eff up too bad while Jake took a breather for 30-60 seconds. In those games he attacked on the dribble and either dished decently or had a decent shot at the rim. He missed several of those(on his own accord, not wholly due to D) , but got to the rim regardless. He looked fine in those brief snap shots. However, long term, Shane appears to have a much higher ceiling.
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i don't see why anyone would expect anything out of nick this coming year. rodney avg'd 3ppg/2rpg in 12mpg his freshman year.
'Gruds production out of Nino next year would be fine.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=rodney-mcgruder&dominique-sutton=2007-2008&p1=dominique-sutton&p2=shane-southwell&rodney-mcgruder=2009-2010
:lol:
Nick + rod talk. Rod + nino talk.
Link comparing rod, dom, shane. :confused:
Read through Catzackers comment and read Nino instead of Nick. Considering the context I think there's a chance he meant to type Nino and not Nick.
Anyway, that's why.
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1.1 a/to ratio is awful. Please don't use that as a talking point to hype up your boy. I don't give a crap if it's 2nd or 3rd best on the team. Not like it's head and shoulders above Tay's .7 ratio.
As far as Tay pissing down his leg...he is one of 2 players to actually show up against Duke this year.
Tay had a couple dece games toward the end of the year where he actually did more than just not eff up too bad while Jake took a breather for 30-60 seconds. In those games he attacked on the dribble and either dished decently or had a decent shot at the rim. He missed several of those(on his own accord, not wholly due to D) , but got to the rim regardless. He looked fine in those brief snap shots. However, long term, Shane appears to have a much higher ceiling.
And he was very lucky he didn't get fouled on those drives... 45% FT Yikes!!!
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1.1 a/to ratio is awful. Please don't use that as a talking point to hype up your boy. I don't give a crap if it's 2nd or 3rd best on the team. Not like it's head and shoulders above Tay's .7 ratio.
As far as Tay pissing down his leg...he is one of 2 players to actually show up against Duke this year.
Umm... no. A 1.1 A/TO ratio is NOT "awful" on this team. It was second on the team (with Will) in-conference (which is the only time when Shane really got legit playing time). In fact, for a freshman, it's not "awful" at all. As for how Irving played against Dook, who cares? When the games got REAL (in conference), he looked and played scared.
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he's an asset on offense.
totally disagree. when teams are begging him to shoot an unguarded 15 foot jumper, and he still doesn't shoot it, tells you about all you need to know about him as a liability on offense.
also, the talking point about shane being some sort of great passer is entirely over rated. martavious had a better a/to ratio.
He's only a freshman. The Morris twins couldn't hit the broad side of a barn their freshman year, and now they're two of the best big men in the country. Give Southwell some time to get comfortable and work on his jumpshot.
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1.1 a/to ratio is awful. Please don't use that as a talking point to hype up your boy. I don't give a crap if it's 2nd or 3rd best on the team. Not like it's head and shoulders above Tay's .7 ratio.
As far as Tay pissing down his leg...he is one of 2 players to actually show up against Duke this year.
Now I know you're a troll.
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he's an asset on offense.
totally disagree. when teams are begging him to shoot an unguarded 15 foot jumper, and he still doesn't shoot it, tells you about all you need to know about him as a liability on offense.
also, the talking point about shane being some sort of great passer is entirely over rated. martavious had a better a/to ratio.
He's only a freshman. The Morris twins couldn't hit the broad side of a barn their freshman year, and now they're two of the best big men in the country. Give Southwell some time to get comfortable and work on his jumpshot.
Whenever Southwell gets a RSCI in the top 70 then the comparison would be worthwhile.
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he's an asset on offense.
totally disagree. when teams are begging him to shoot an unguarded 15 foot jumper, and he still doesn't shoot it, tells you about all you need to know about him as a liability on offense.
also, the talking point about shane being some sort of great passer is entirely over rated. martavious had a better a/to ratio.
He's only a freshman. The Morris twins couldn't hit the broad side of a barn their freshman year, and now they're two of the best big men in the country. Give Southwell some time to get comfortable and work on his jumpshot.
Whenever Southwell gets a RSCI in the top 70 then the comparison would be worthwhile.
WTF?!? What do recruiting rankings have to do with a kid's actual potential after having a decent freshman year?!?
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jesus man. recruiting rankings are a pretty solid indicator of how good player is/will become.
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jesus man. recruiting rankings are a pretty solid indicator of how good player is/will become.
Well, there's no debating THAT airtight logic. IOW, do I really need to make you a list of McDs AAs that have fallen on their faces, and 2*s that have become beasts?!?
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all we need to know about shane was foretold by his clutch shot at Texas under 2 min
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Shane shoots FT's well. :dunno:
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Shane shoots FT's well. :dunno:
This he does. Really has surprised me. He also had a decent game against Utah St.
As far as comparing recruiting rankings to what has been seen on the court. That makes no sense to me.
I may be over-critical of Shane b/c of mistakes I have seen...but I jus't don't see much potential. I hope I am wrong and next year I am eating crow b/c he comes out and is a shutdown defender and averages 6-8 pts a game (trying to make goals attainable). Maybe grab 4 boards a game and distribute the ball much better than this year.
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please don't let the DITR argument make it's way to KSU MBB. That's all I ask.
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ft% is the best argument for optimism re. his shot. i don't know if the fact that he throws every pass that he sees, half for assists, half for turnovers is a reason of optimism or pessimism.
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ft% is the best argument for optimism re. his shot. i don't know if the fact that he throws every pass that he sees, half for assists, half for turnovers is a reason of optimism or pessimism.
It's easier to teach a risk taker to be more conservative that to teach a conservative to be more reckless. IMO.
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ft% is the best argument for optimism re. his shot. i don't know if the fact that he throws every pass that he sees, half for assists, half for turnovers is a reason of optimism or pessimism.
It's easier to teach a risk taker to be more conservative that to teach a conservative to be more reckless. IMO.
Also, a 1.1 A/TO ratio is indicative of someone who is making the right decision on his passes about 53% of the time, and the wrong decision about 47% of the time. Given that some TOs come from guys not being ready for a great pass, travels, etc., the good percentage is probably higher than that, but still, I can live with a freshman distributor making good passing decisions 53% of the time, which Will and Shane both did. Especially given the fact that Martavious was only making good decisions (by that scale) about 42% of the time.
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It's easier to teach a risk taker to be more conservative that to teach a conservative to be more reckless. IMO.
yeah, could be.
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Also, a 1.1 A/TO ratio is indicative of someone who is making the right decision on his passes about 53% of the time, and the wrong decision about 47% of the time. Given that some TOs come from guys not being ready for a great pass, travels, etc., the good percentage is probably higher than that, but still, I can live with a freshman distributor making good passing decisions 53% of the time, which Will and Shane both did. Especially given the fact that Martavious was only making good decisions (by that scale) about 42% of the time.
most of southwell's turnovers came from making high-risk/high reward passes. not true of either either spradling or irving. my other quibble with your analysis would be that a turnover is far worse than an assist is good.
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my other quibble with your analysis would be that a turnover is far worse than an assist is good.
how so? isn't an assist worth more than two points and a turnover worth less than two?
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he's an asset on offense.
totally disagree. when teams are begging him to shoot an unguarded 15 foot jumper, and he still doesn't shoot it, tells you about all you need to know about him as a liability on offense.
also, the talking point about shane being some sort of great passer is entirely over rated. martavious had a better a/to ratio.
He's only a freshman. The Morris twins couldn't hit the broad side of a barn their freshman year, and now they're two of the best big men in the country. Give Southwell some time to get comfortable and work on his jumpshot.
Whenever Southwell gets a RSCI in the top 70 then the comparison would be worthwhile.
Southwell was ranked #131 in Rivals' top 150, and he comes from a really good high school program in Rice (New York). Pretty solid, imo.
:ck:
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my other quibble with your analysis would be that a turnover is far worse than an assist is good.
how so? isn't an assist worth more than two points and a turnover worth less than two?
Turnovers come from not using your head and making poor decisions (which plagued the Cats all season long). I am more forgiving (but not much more) of Jake's turnovers b/c most of them cam from being aggresive. Everyone else on the team had more turnovers from dumb passes or telegraphing passes. Assists also take 2 people to complete whereas a turnover is normally a product of 1's effort (or lack thereof).
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he's an asset on offense.
totally disagree. when teams are begging him to shoot an unguarded 15 foot jumper, and he still doesn't shoot it, tells you about all you need to know about him as a liability on offense.
also, the talking point about shane being some sort of great passer is entirely over rated. martavious had a better a/to ratio.
He's only a freshman. The Morris twins couldn't hit the broad side of a barn their freshman year, and now they're two of the best big men in the country. Give Southwell some time to get comfortable and work on his jumpshot.
Whenever Southwell gets a RSCI in the top 70 then the comparison would be worthwhile.
Southwell was ranked #131 in Rivals' top 150, and he comes from a really good high school program in Rice (New York). Pretty solid, imo.
:ck:
Well, we'll see. I'm not totally sold yet. And I think you over exaggerated a little, Marcus shot over 52% in conference games his freshman year.
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my other quibble with your analysis would be that a turnover is far worse than an assist is good.
how so? isn't an assist worth more than two points and a turnover worth less than two?
Turnovers come from not using your head and making poor decisions (which plagued the Cats all season long). I am more forgiving (but not much more) of Jake's turnovers b/c most of them cam from being aggresive. Everyone else on the team had more turnovers from dumb passes or telegraphing passes. Assists also take 2 people to complete whereas a turnover is normally a product of 1's effort (or lack thereof).
It's an empirical fact that on a purely statistical basis, Assists are worth more than TOs cost. I just simplified the analysis to simple percentages to make it easier for non-stat geeks to understand. The actual in-depth statistical analysis gives Southwell even more of an edge. And, if you're "more forgiving of Jake's turnovers" because they resulted from aggression, how can you not give Shane the same treatment? Either way, though, that's nothing more than a "gut feel" thing, and doesn't mean much at all in relation to reality.
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bump.
do people still think he doesn't suck?
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:sdeek: Most of this thread is rough ridin' awful.
However, I think Nino will be a pleasant surprise this year.
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I think Shane is a good backup 3 to Rod (which he hopefully plays this season)
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shane will be amazing this year
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shane will be amazing this year
well lets see here...it's already this year and last i checked shane was already amazing so guess what? thanks a lot, prognostication master.
also of note, nino blows, get over yourselves, williams huggers
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shane will be amazing this year
well lets see here...it's already this year and last i checked shane was already amazing so guess what? thanks a lot, prognostication master.
also of note, nino blows, get over yourselves, williams huggers
Whatevs stupid face.
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Nino won't play the four this year, so hooray :cheers:
Weber will change Shane's shoot, not expecting a lot from him this year, expecting the world from him his senior year.
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shane will be amazing this year
well lets see here...it's already this year and last i checked shane was already amazing so guess what? thanks a lot, prognostication master.
also of note, nino blows, get over yourselves, williams huggers
Whatevs stupid face.
I have noticed that the heat has really added to the tension in here.
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shane will be amazing this year
well lets see here...it's already this year and last i checked shane was already amazing so guess what? thanks a lot, prognostication master.
also of note, nino blows, get over yourselves, williams huggers
Whatevs stupid face.
I have noticed that the heat has really added to the tension in here.
Walk across the line dobber or GTFO of the Alamo. :shakesfist:
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:lol:
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I like nino. why does it have to be #teamnino #teamshane?
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I like nino. why does it have to be #teamnino #teamshane?
it doesn't
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I like nino. why does it have to be #teamnino #teamshane?
it doesn't
:D
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We need a scapegoat!!! Who should it be???
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We need a scapegoat!!! Who should it be???
probably old man body omari if he ever sees the court
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We need a scapegoat!!! Who should it be???
probably old man body omari if he ever sees the court
Omari has been reborn, he is are Phoenix
http://www.kansascity.com/2012/07/02/3687587/k-state-coach-oscar-weber-calls.html (http://www.kansascity.com/2012/07/02/3687587/k-state-coach-oscar-weber-calls.html)
If he becomes the player he was his Jr. year in high school he is going to be good.
ESPN:
June, 2008: Big, physical, lead guard who is best at getting to the glass and drawing contact. Could lead the Big Apple, if not the country, in free throw attempts. Basketball IQ is way above average and he looks to make the big plays down the stretch. Omari can catch and shoot out to 21ft and is excellent at taking what the defense gives. Consummate team player who does whatever it takes to win the game. He is a High Major lock and good enough to help any team in the country.
Novmeber, 2007: Omari is a lefty shooter with excellent defensive intensity. His long arms grab a lot of rebounds and he has a bloodhound's nose for the ball. An athletic leaper, Lawrence can be quite a showman in transition. Able to attack the basket by going left or right, this long-armed slasher has some nice up and under finishes and reverses off the glass as well as vicious throwdowns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQL3d2SMsC0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQL3d2SMsC0)
I can't hate him, tucks are going to hate him and I LOVE UPSET TUCKS
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We need a scapegoat!!! Who should it be???
It's been oscar for months.
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We need a scapegoat!!! Who should it be???
It's been oscar for months.
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oscar can't be the scapegoat, if we blame him it is because he deserves it.
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yeah, we heard all that about Omari a year ago too. his body is just too old man (which I believe is a Bossi quote)
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We need a scapegoat!!! Who should it be???
It's been oscar for months.
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oscar can't be the scapegoat, if we blame him it is because he deserves it.
No. oscar is perfect because Currie is where the real fault lies.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
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We need a scapegoat!!! Who should it be???
It's been oscar for months.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
oscar can't be the scapegoat, if we blame him it is because he deserves it.
No. oscar is perfect because Currie is where the real fault lies.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F25.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m6jk99agDC1rzz3r3o1_500.gif&hash=ce705b372f5309d8ce6343e5825ff3221faa04ae)
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How is it not completely obvious that Spradling is this year's scapegoat. I mean he apparently helped drive away the best basketball coach in a quarter century at KSU for starters.
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From last fall:
Former St. John's guard Omari Lawrence should also be in the mix for minutes and has "been shooting the top off the ball" according to Martin.
:dubious:
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=14719.msg355394#msg355394
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nino is awful. and always has been. shane's value is that he isn't awful.
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nino is awful. and always has been. shane's value is that he isn't awful.
What about the beautiful thing? No value there?