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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: Stupid Fitz on January 29, 2011, 10:07:53 PM

Title: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 29, 2011, 10:07:53 PM
Why can't they make layups and or really, really close shots?  I understand that they don't shoot well at all for the most part, but I am amazed at how many 2-3 feet shots that are missed completely or just roll out.  Frank has said at halftime 5 times that they just need to make the layups, but they still miss so many.  Seems weird.  I am sure it is kind of a fluke, but it also probably has something to do with most of our big guys either sucking or insisting on making a 2ft shot the most difficult shot possible. 
 :ck:
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: CNS on January 29, 2011, 10:10:12 PM
Did you see some of the shots they were taking?  Shane's backward finger rolls while crossing the basket, Wally's jumper where the only thing that actually turns toward the basket is his hand while he faces the other basket.....

Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: kstater on January 29, 2011, 10:11:38 PM
They've been practicing so much on making FT's that they haven't worked on the layup drills as much.
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: kso_FAN on January 29, 2011, 10:13:53 PM
It is weird, especially since we only lost Lou from last year in this area. Last year we were a respectable (but not great) 49.1% on 2s. This year we have dropped to 46.7%.  That's a pretty significant drop and we do a great job or making easy shots hard and/or not drawing fouls.
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: pike on January 29, 2011, 10:14:33 PM
CK banked a point blank layup off the square and completely missed the rim. Pathetic
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 29, 2011, 10:15:00 PM
Did you see some of the shots they were taking?  Shane's backward finger rolls while crossing the basket, Wally's jumper where the only thing that actually turns toward the basket is his hand while he faces the other basket.....



Loved this.  If he turned right, he has an uncontested dunk or layup, but he turned completely away from the basket and shot a 6 footer.  At least he made it  :dunno:  

OK so who's fault is it that they don't know how to make layups?  I seriously have no idea.  Who coaches the bigs to turn away from the basket and make every shot harder?

Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 29, 2011, 10:16:41 PM
CK banked a point blank layup off the square and completely missed the rim. Pathetic

How about Jake's sweet move to the hoop only to finger roll right to the bottom of the rim.   :lol:
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: Stevesie60 on January 29, 2011, 10:17:38 PM
The worst was when Southwell jumped up with the ball a foot away from the basket, and then decided to pass it.
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 29, 2011, 10:19:10 PM
The worst was when Southwell jumped up with the ball a foot away from the basket, and then decided to pass it.

Good one.  But if he shot it, he may have gotten fouled and stuff.   :ohno:
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: michigancat on January 29, 2011, 11:14:11 PM
It's harder to make layups against teams like Kansas.  I don't understand why people don't realize that defense can affect layups.
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: kso_FAN on January 29, 2011, 11:18:04 PM
It's harder to make layups against teams like Kansas.  I don't understand why people don't realize that defense can affect layups.

No doubt, but 35% on 2PT shots is pretty terrible. Even against KU.
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: kcchiefdav on January 29, 2011, 11:30:31 PM
It's harder to make layups against teams like Kansas.  I don't understand why people don't realize that defense can affect layups.

Then what's the excuse against CU, Baylor and OSU.
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: slimz on January 30, 2011, 02:15:43 AM
This team has a lack of coordination.  They can't hold on to the ball, they can't shoot the ball, they can't pass the ball, they can't actually grab the rebound, and they can't get their hand in the proper spot to deflect or steal the ball.

I don't know whether it's lack of inherent ability or something that's being affected by whatever is emphasized in strength and conditioning, but they are one of the most uncoordinated group of basketball players I have ever seen.
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: michigancat on January 30, 2011, 04:40:14 AM
It's harder to make layups against teams like Kansas.  I don't understand why people don't realize that defense can affect layups.

Then what's the excuse against CU, Baylor and OSU.

They shot better against those teams.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: kcchiefdav on January 30, 2011, 08:15:59 AM
It's harder to make layups against teams like Kansas.  I don't understand why people don't realize that defense can affect layups.

Then what's the excuse against CU, Baylor and OSU.

They shot better against those teams.  :dunno:
KSU FG% against the aforementioned:

CU=40.4%
OSU=34.8%
Baylor=36.5%

and for the sake of completeness,

aTm = 40.0%

The 42% that we shot against Mizzou seems like a shining beacon of hope compared to the rest of league play, until you remember the 24 TOs.
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: kso_FAN on January 30, 2011, 09:08:56 AM
2PT shots in league play.
OSU: 40%
CU: 44%
Tech: 50%
MU: 55%
aTm: 50%
BU: 38%
KU: 35%

CU is really the anomoly. Against teams with good, long bigs we've made a reasonable amount of shots, against those without we haven't. Then factor in Kelly really didn't play much vs KU, and didn't play at all vs OSU and CU. Plus, in our 3 best shooting games (from 2) Kelly was 50% or better in each. He was 5-16 combined against BU and KU. Then look at Samuels and he has one game (Tech) where he shot better than 33%.

We just aren't getting efficient offense (consistently) from our 2 best bigs, that makes things really tough, especially when we don't hit 3s. Some of that is maybe on the offense, but at the end of the day we just don't have a lot of scorers on this team.
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: massofcatfan on January 30, 2011, 09:10:37 AM
The worst was when Southwell jumped up with the ball a foot away from the basket, and then decided to pass it.

awww, man, I had blocked this from my memory
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 30, 2011, 09:15:24 AM
It's harder to make layups against teams like Kansas.  I don't understand why people don't realize that defense can affect layups.

I completely understand this. I am mainly talking about the bigs.  Other than Curtis (sometimes), most of them just look lost near the basket whether they are being defended well or not.  Watching Wally and Jamar get the ball and just jump up, turn, and just throw it at the basket makes me  :chainsaw: .  Most of them look like they have never worked on a post move in their lives. 
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: chunkles on January 30, 2011, 09:56:14 AM
The worst was when Southwell jumped up with the ball a foot away from the basket, and then decided to pass it.

awww, man, I had blocked this from my memory
and he was pretty much uncontested, right?  And he passed it to some dude that had two (#?) dudes swarming him and one of those ku dudes got the ball right away, right?  I don't know which ksu player he was passing to on account of all the swarming ku dudes. 
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 30, 2011, 10:25:24 AM
We grab and possess the ball worse than a 3rd grade girls church team.   It's pathetic.

Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: Clevey 2 Times on January 30, 2011, 12:38:53 PM
The worst was when Southwell jumped up with the ball a foot away from the basket, and then decided to pass it.

awww, man, I had blocked this from my memory

By far the worst moment of the game, except for all the wide open layups/dunks KU made repeatedly.

Southwell has the excuse of being a freshman, what I want to know is what is Jamar's excuse for looking as scared as a deer in headlights on the offensive end?
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: skycat on January 30, 2011, 12:42:58 PM
I don't know whether it's lack of inherent ability or something that's being affected by whatever is emphasized in strength and conditioning, but they are one of the most uncoordinated group of basketball players I have ever seen.

I've wondered about this but haven't seen it mentioned until now. Is Greenwalt overtraining these guys? If you don't give the muscles adequate time to repair themselves, you end up tearing them down instead of building them up. This can affect coordination.
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: Clevey 2 Times on January 30, 2011, 12:45:52 PM
I don't know whether it's lack of inherent ability or something that's being affected by whatever is emphasized in strength and conditioning, but they are one of the most uncoordinated group of basketball players I have ever seen.

I've wondered about this but haven't seen it mentioned until now. Is Greenwalt overtraining these guys? If you don't give the muscles adequate time to repair themselves, you end up tearing them down instead of building them up. This can affect coordination.

As a team, our squads have been rather uncoordinated since Huggs arrived.
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: michigancat on January 30, 2011, 12:55:48 PM
OMG, are we seriously trying to blame this season on lifting weights too much?

:lol:
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 30, 2011, 12:57:53 PM
OMG, are we seriously trying to blame this season on lifting weights too much?

:lol:

double  :lol:

Pretty sure you aren't a huge pussy on the court from lifting too much. 
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: Clevey 2 Times on January 30, 2011, 11:03:28 PM
This season is so effing incomprehensibly bad that we're just taking shots in the dark now. I've resigned myself to not really figuring it out, but trying just to maintain some level of psychological stability.
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: kso_FAN on January 30, 2011, 11:06:13 PM
We grab and possess the ball worse than a 3rd grade girls church team.   It's pathetic.



Players trying to dribble a loose ball instead of picking it up and possessing it (especially in traffic) is one of my biggest basketball pet peeves. Drives me nuts.
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 31, 2011, 01:46:50 PM
We are missing a ton of short shots because our only big who attacks the basket is JHR, and he's not very good at it. Everyone else tries to avoid contact, resulting in no foul getting called and a missed basket.
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: Clevey 2 Times on January 31, 2011, 10:11:49 PM
We are missing a ton of short shots because our only big who attacks the basket is JHR, and he's not very good at it. Everyone else tries to avoid contact, resulting in no foul getting called and a missed basket.

From time to time Jamar looks for the contact, unfortunately he's bad at short shots with and without contact.
Title: Re: Extremely LBBIQ Question
Post by: slimz on January 31, 2011, 10:15:41 PM
OMG, are we seriously trying to blame this season on lifting weights too much?

:lol:

That would be stupid.