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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: MakeItRain on January 22, 2011, 03:32:41 PM

Title: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: MakeItRain on January 22, 2011, 03:32:41 PM
3/5 of the starting line up combined for 3-12 from the field, 7 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block, 1 steal, 8 turnovers, 12 fouls, 8 points, a +/- of -8,251,926.

Would have won despite that, but the head coach decided that Will Spradling, Juevol Myles, and Devon Peterson could play extended minutes.  Idiot.  Nick and 'Tay don't deserve this crap, I hope they quit today.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: WillieWatanabe on January 22, 2011, 03:33:22 PM
let the first half go.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: Pett on January 22, 2011, 03:34:22 PM
Souhtwell/McGruder/Samuels

FYP.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: nicname on January 22, 2011, 03:35:31 PM
The "Franking" is baffling to me as well. 
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: MakeItRain on January 22, 2011, 03:36:13 PM
let the first half go.

Do points and possessions in the second half count for more?  Why ask the players for 40 minutes of effort if you refuse to coach a 40 minute basketball game?
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: Acceleration Man on January 22, 2011, 03:37:50 PM
3/5 of the starting line up combined for 3-12 from the field, 7 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block, 1 steal, 8 turnovers, 12 fouls, 8 points, a +/- of -8,251,926.

Would have won despite that, but the head coach decided that Will Spradling, Juevol Myles, and Devon Peterson could play extended minutes.  Idiot.  Nick and 'Tay don't deserve this cac, I hope they quit today.

Weak argument. All of these guys are basically on the same level, more or less. You really telling me you want to see Russell out there for extended minutes? Bah.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: sys on January 22, 2011, 03:41:55 PM
Weak argument. All of these guys are basically on the same level, more or less. You really telling me you want to see Russell out there for extended minutes? Bah.

i agree.  southwell and spradling make a lot of errors.  i'm not convinced irving and russell offer anything better.  they've spent most of the season proving they don't.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: MakeItRain on January 22, 2011, 03:42:54 PM
3/5 of the starting line up combined for 3-12 from the field, 7 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block, 1 steal, 8 turnovers, 12 fouls, 8 points, a +/- of -8,251,926.

Would have won despite that, but the head coach decided that Will Spradling, Juevol Myles, and Devon Peterson could play extended minutes.  Idiot.  Nick and 'Tay don't deserve this cac, I hope they quit today.

Weak argument. All of these guys are basically on the same level, more or less. You really telling me you want to see Russell out there for extended minutes? Bah.

When we get the play-by-play stats from this game, I'm going to absolutely destroy you with it.  Did you not see us make a huge run after Nick came into the game.  BTW Southwell and Spradling combined for 9 fouls and 6 turnovers
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: MakeItRain on January 22, 2011, 03:46:05 PM
Weak argument. All of these guys are basically on the same level, more or less. You really telling me you want to see Russell out there for extended minutes? Bah.

i agree.  southwell and spradling make a lot of errors.  i'm not convinced irving and russell offer anything better.  they've spent most of the season proving they don't.

Those guys alone are fine, it was the times when we had combinations of Southwell, Spradling, and Peterson on the floor, or Spradling and Myles, or Myles and Peterson.  The second Frank didn't have these combos of players he himself have never played, off of the court the offense magically improved.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: michigancat on January 22, 2011, 03:47:26 PM
I saw Nick foul an 80% ft shooter away from the ball when we were down 3 with 1:30 left.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: Acceleration Man on January 22, 2011, 03:47:54 PM
Weak argument. All of these guys are basically on the same level, more or less. You really telling me you want to see Russell out there for extended minutes? Bah.

i agree.  southwell and spradling make a lot of errors.  i'm not convinced irving and russell offer anything better.  they've spent most of the season proving they don't.

Those guys alone are fine, it was the times when we had combinations of Southwell, Spradling, and Peterson on the floor, or Spradling and Myles, or Myles and Peterson.  The second Frank didn't have these combos of players he himself have never played, off of the court the offense magically improved.

Dude, are you drunk?  :flush:
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: MakeItRain on January 22, 2011, 03:49:29 PM
I saw Nick foul an 80% ft shooter away from the ball when we were down 3 with 1:30 left.

You're right and that was very dumb, doesn't change the really dumb guard combos we had on the floor the first half.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: sys on January 22, 2011, 03:49:40 PM
Those guys alone are fine, it was the times when we had combinations of Southwell, Spradling, and Peterson on the floor, or Spradling and Myles, or Myles and Peterson.  The second Frank didn't have these combos of players he himself have never played, off of the court the offense magically improved.

the only time the offense magically improved was when kelly made a play all by himself.


a&m is good defensively, especially on the perimeter; the new offense is crap; i miss open threes.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: WillieWatanabe on January 22, 2011, 03:50:05 PM
let the first half go.

Do points and possessions in the second half count for more?  Why ask the players for 40 minutes of effort if you refuse to coach a 40 minute basketball game?

are these rhetorical?
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: catzacker on January 22, 2011, 03:53:00 PM
Those guys alone are fine, it was the times when we had combinations of Southwell, Spradling, and Peterson on the floor, or Spradling and Myles, or Myles and Peterson.  The second Frank didn't have these combos of players he himself have never played, off of the court the offense magically improved.

the only time the offense magically improved was when kelly made a play all by himself.


a&m is good defensively, especially on the perimeter; the new offense is cac; i miss open threes.

this.  not that we would have made them today.  but still. 
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: MakeItRain on January 22, 2011, 03:55:52 PM
Those guys alone are fine, it was the times when we had combinations of Southwell, Spradling, and Peterson on the floor, or Spradling and Myles, or Myles and Peterson.  The second Frank didn't have these combos of players he himself have never played, off of the court the offense magically improved.

the only time the offense magically improved was when kelly made a play all by himself.


a&m is good defensively, especially on the perimeter; the new offense is cac; i miss open threes.

this.  not that we would have made them today.  but still. 

5-20 :flush:
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: my troll name ... Koppe22 on January 22, 2011, 03:57:40 PM
Non Seniors scored 20 points today, 20 points.

FML. :goodbyecruelworld:
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: michigancat on January 22, 2011, 03:59:41 PM
Had a lot of good looks from 3 when it was tied late.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: CatsFan_58 on January 22, 2011, 03:59:54 PM
im beginning to think the "bad guard combo" bit is something we say to make ourselves feel better. it does not matter who goes out on the floor. they are all going to play rough ridin' stupid.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: Stupid Fitz on January 22, 2011, 04:04:24 PM
Dumb thread. Being pissed about which combo of crappy guards Frank plays is  :powerespect:  if you are going to be pissed at Frank, be pissed at him for not recruiting a decent guard. Other than that, when you get your fancy stats that are going to blow us away, take a look at Jamar and Rodney's.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: catzacker on January 22, 2011, 04:05:05 PM
Had a lot of good looks from 3 when it was tied late.

could have used a guy to hit a 3 when we needed it down the stretch in college station......

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.scout.com%2FMedia%2FImage%2F61%2F612167.jpg&hash=fa976dda49fe98202bcb67ca770cc504d001c3d9)
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: MakeItRain on January 22, 2011, 04:06:07 PM
im beginning to think the "bad guard combo" bit is something we say to make ourselves feel better. it does not matter who goes out on the floor. they are all going to play rough ridin' stupid.

It's quite goddamn simple, would you rather see Peterson and Myles or Russell and Irving.  Frank obviously also thought playing those crap players was stupid too since he didn't play either of them in the second half.  He used the first 15 minutes of the half as a science experiment.  It would have been nice if he coached it like someone who didn't want to go 1-4 in conference play.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: michigancat on January 22, 2011, 04:08:09 PM
if you are going to be pissed at Frank, be pissed at him for not recruiting a decent guard.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrfx.cstv.com%2Fphotos%2Fschools%2Fksu%2Fsports%2Fm-baskbl%2Fauto_headshot%2F1778358.jpeg&hash=cdc737abec356585215df8cff876966f0c5cc692)
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: michigancat on January 22, 2011, 04:08:38 PM
Had a lot of good looks from 3 when it was tied late.

could have used a guy to hit a 3 when we needed it down the stretch in college station......

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.scout.com%2FMedia%2FImage%2F61%2F612167.jpg&hash=fa976dda49fe98202bcb67ca770cc504d001c3d9)

goddam, it's like we share a brain.  :love:  :blank:
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: sys on January 22, 2011, 04:09:43 PM
peterson and myles played like ten minutes between them.  and anyways, of those four, i'd rather see peterson.  he's entertaining.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: WillieWatanabe on January 22, 2011, 04:09:56 PM
Jesus people. Go get a rough ridin' time machine.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: MakeItRain on January 22, 2011, 04:10:33 PM
Dumb thread. Being pissed about which combo of crappy guards Frank plays is  :powerespect:  if you are going to be pissed at Frank, be pissed at him for not recruiting a decent guard. Other than that, when you get your fancy stats that are going to blow us away, take a look at Jamar and Rodney's.

I have mentioned several times that this team has 7 shooting guards and 1/2 of a real point guard (Myles).  Frank obviously agrees with me that his guard rotation was stupid, he neglected it in the first half.  It's too bad he doesn't value the full 40 minutes the way he should.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: catzacker on January 22, 2011, 04:10:51 PM
I would have rathered to have seen Denmon or Dixon our there, unfortunately, Frank lost those battles or didn't even attempt them.  We lost all these games we're losing this year long ago.  It's Frank's terrible f'ing recruiting that is f*cking us and if you look forward, will continue to f*ck us.  That and he's gotten nothing out of a 5* forward except some nice dunks before games in the Octagon of Overratedness.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: MakeItRain on January 22, 2011, 04:11:44 PM
peterson and myles played like ten minutes between them.  and anyways, of those four, i'd rather see peterson.  he's entertaining.

Again, it was not that they played, it's who they played with.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on January 22, 2011, 04:55:13 PM
Maybe Frank should have coached the second half like he did the first. We tied the first half, after all.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: MakeItRain on January 22, 2011, 05:23:19 PM
3/5 of the starting line up combined for 3-12 from the field, 7 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block, 1 steal, 8 turnovers, 12 fouls, 8 points, a +/- of -8,251,926.

Would have won despite that, but the head coach decided that Will Spradling, Juevol Myles, and Devon Peterson could play extended minutes.  Idiot.  Nick and 'Tay don't deserve this cac, I hope they quit today.

Weak argument. All of these guys are basically on the same level, more or less. You really telling me you want to see Russell out there for extended minutes? Bah.

First half guard combos and KSU points scored

Peterson, Southwell, and Spradling on the court together for 1:50 before the first media timeout :goodbyecruelworld:- Not surprisingly 2 points scored at in that timeframe

Peterson, Myles, and Spradling on the court together for 1:48 between 11:02-9:14 4 points by Kelly (no assists from the guards, both baskets offensive rebounds from Myles misses) The guards contributed 3 missed shots, 1 turnover, 0 assists, 0 rebounds

There were other times when two of the four guys who rarely play were on the court at the same time.  Nick Russell came in the game at the 6:40 mark, KSU had 17 points scored/24 allowed, 8 FGs, 6 TOs, and 3 assists (2 of the 3 from Curtis Kelly, one by a guard, Southwell) in 13:20 minutes of play

The last 6:40, after Russell came in 12 points scored/5 allowed, 2 TOs, both by Spradling.  I also assure you that if you look at the game again you will also see that the guard combo of Nick, Jake, and Martavious also played very good defensively the last couple of minutes of the half.  Frank repaid that guard combo by not putting them on the court together again in the second half, not for a second. Nick played for 1:32, between the 14:02-12:40 mark of the second half.  He sat him and then inexplicably put him in on a defensive possession with :59 seconds left of a two point game after essentially benching him for the second half.  And he wondered why he committed a dumb foul on the same possession?  Dude probably had no idea that he was going in, why not bring in Wally and VO as well, would have been just as random.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: CatsFan_58 on January 22, 2011, 07:15:40 PM
Grudsy pulled a disappearing act, like straight Jamar style.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: CatsFan_58 on January 22, 2011, 07:23:11 PM
im beginning to think the "bad guard combo" bit is something we say to make ourselves feel better. it does not matter who goes out on the floor. they are all going to play rough ridin' stupid.

It's quite goddamn simple, would you rather see Peterson and Myles or Russell and Irving.  Frank obviously also thought playing those crap players was stupid too since he didn't play either of them in the second half.  He used the first 15 minutes of the half as a science experiment.  It would have been nice if he coached it like someone who didn't want to go 1-4 in conference play.
I understand what you are saying, all I am saying is that its dumb. There has been no second guard that has stepped up because they are all stupid and/or suck. There is no "better guard combo".
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: Cartierfor3 on January 22, 2011, 07:45:01 PM
Had a lot of good looks from 3 when it was tied late.

could have used a guy to hit a 3 when we needed it down the stretch in college station......

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.scout.com%2FMedia%2FImage%2F61%2F612167.jpg&hash=fa976dda49fe98202bcb67ca770cc504d001c3d9)

Can we go ahead and get over this?
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: CHONGS on January 22, 2011, 07:51:58 PM
Had a lot of good looks from 3 when it was tied late.

could have used a guy to hit a 3 when we needed it down the stretch in college station......

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.scout.com%2FMedia%2FImage%2F61%2F612167.jpg&hash=fa976dda49fe98202bcb67ca770cc504d001c3d9)

Can we go ahead and get over this?
They never will, its too ingrained a talking point by now.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: catzacker on January 22, 2011, 08:16:08 PM
Had a lot of good looks from 3 when it was tied late.

could have used a guy to hit a 3 when we needed it down the stretch in college station......

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.scout.com%2FMedia%2FImage%2F61%2F612167.jpg&hash=fa976dda49fe98202bcb67ca770cc504d001c3d9)

Can we go ahead and get over this?

he's a metaphor for frank's recruiting.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: Trim on January 22, 2011, 08:40:35 PM
Had a lot of good looks from 3 when it was tied late.

could have used a guy to hit a 3 when we needed it down the stretch in college station......

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.scout.com%2FMedia%2FImage%2F61%2F612167.jpg&hash=fa976dda49fe98202bcb67ca770cc504d001c3d9)

Can we go ahead and get over this?

he's a metaphor for frank's recruiting.

Open Scholarship?

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.homecaresales.com%2Fbeta%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F05%2Fhead_silhouette.jpg&hash=54f58ff12070d0217c68532ad64c7a943a2e619a)
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: kso_FAN on January 22, 2011, 09:07:17 PM
Had a lot of good looks from 3 when it was tied late.

could have used a guy to hit a 3 when we needed it down the stretch in college station......

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.scout.com%2FMedia%2FImage%2F61%2F612167.jpg&hash=fa976dda49fe98202bcb67ca770cc504d001c3d9)

Can we go ahead and get over this?
They never will, its too ingrained a talking point by now.

Yeah, the question really is who is worse/better; Fred or open scholarship?   :ck:
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: michigancat on January 22, 2011, 10:28:25 PM
Running off Fred Brown and replacing him with Myles/Peterson/Spradling/Irving/Russell does far more damage the team than anything Frank could possibly do over a course of a season.  Frank's substitution patterns or overplaying defense or fouling or "set plays" or whatever the dipshit post-loss talking points are just don't matter.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 22, 2011, 10:38:46 PM
It's pretty clear that Frank is going to have to develop a little patience.

There's no way you run off a Fred Brown type who can help lift you out of the offensive doldrums just because the guy doesn't play perfect rough ridin' defense out there every second. 

Outside of Kelly, JaSam and JHR gave us nothing today, but Wally Judge gets a minute.  He goes from being a starter, to getting 1 minute in 2 games.   

This is just completely mumped up and there's no way any Frankite can possibly apologize their way out this . . . I am tired of hearing about "oh but you see he's lost out there on defense" . . . well, here's a newsflash, there's a lot of guys on this team that are lost out there on defense a lot of the time.   

Frank is a rough ridin' nutcase playing high school head games with these kids.







Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: wetwillie on January 22, 2011, 10:42:01 PM
It's pretty clear that Frank is going to have to develop a little patience.

There's no way you run off a Fred Brown type who can help lift you out of the offensive doldrums just because the guy doesn't play perfect effing defense out there every second. 

Outside of Kelly, JaSam and JHR gave us nothing today, but Wally Judge gets a minute.  He goes from being a starter, to getting 1 minute in 2 games.   

This is just completely effed up and there's no way any Frankite can possibly apologize their way out this . . . I am tired of hearing about "oh but you see he's lost out there on defense" . . . well, here's a newsflash, there's a lot of guys on this team that are lost out there on defense a lot of the time.   

Frank is a effing nutcase playing high school head games with these kids.



Wally is sad, this is why he does not play.  Frank missed on a point guard for the impending void clemente would leave, I think this is a good place to focus your criticism.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: theymightbegiants on January 22, 2011, 11:10:30 PM
Frank missed alot of things including setting a starting five and sticking to them. He is a young coach and it sucks to be a fan right now but this season is a learning experience for all. Next year guys, next year lol. FFL frank for life
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: MakeItRain on January 22, 2011, 11:29:21 PM
Running off Fred Brown and replacing him with Myles/Peterson/Spradling/Irving/Russell does far more damage the team than anything Frank could possibly do over a course of a season.  Frank's substitution patterns or overplaying defense or fouling or "set plays" or whatever the dipshit post-loss talking points are just don't matter.

Frank's in game blunders don't matter because of his roster mismanagement?  That makes no since.  If the damage was done two years ago, why watch?  Fred Brown has been gone for two seasons, I couldn't give a crap, I wish he would focus on getting the most out of this roster.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: sys on January 22, 2011, 11:30:55 PM
i hope martin runs russell off.  nothing against russell personally, but i don't like his fans.


also, peterson needs a 'ship to help pay for his english bulldog puppy.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: WillieWatanabe on January 22, 2011, 11:33:50 PM
I hope Frank doesn't run anyone off....they'll just be used as a talking point 3 years from now.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: Cire on January 22, 2011, 11:44:48 PM
Tav and Nick are gone next year.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: MakeItRain on January 22, 2011, 11:48:16 PM
i hope martin runs russell off.  nothing against russell personally, but i don't like his fans

He has fans?
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: Stevesie60 on January 22, 2011, 11:56:06 PM
I hope Frank doesn't run anyone off....they'll just be used as a talking point 3 years from now.

lol
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: sys on January 23, 2011, 01:12:55 AM
He has fans?

yeah.  they walk around bramlage telling each other how obvious his talent is, and wondering how lazy he must practice to not get 30 minutes a game.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: sys on January 23, 2011, 01:28:30 AM
here's one from gpcland.  he's talking about russell in the second quote too.

Quote
If we are going to beat Baylor then Nick Russell HAS TO play.

He is the only guy other than Jake and Curtis that can create his own shot. He has a very good mid range pull up jumper and he can get it off with this size. Baylor goes 6'4, 6'5, 6'9, 6'8 and 6'10" in their starting lineup. We will need some size against these guys, and Nick has to play, they won't run a pressure defense against us and if Frank let's him play, he will have a great game...but he probably won't, and Lace Dunn will drain 8 threes and we will get killed on the boards b/c we will be playing a small lineup.

Quote
The fact is frank has a kid that was highly recruited with nba size and athleticism, and he is sitting on the bench while we lose and lose and lose.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: catzacker on January 23, 2011, 03:56:45 AM
Running off Fred Brown and replacing him with Myles/Peterson/Spradling/Irving/Russell does far more damage the team than anything Frank could possibly do over a course of a season.  Frank's substitution patterns or overplaying defense or fouling or "set plays" or whatever the dipcac post-loss talking points are just don't matter.

this.  fine, run off players, but replace them with better ones.  and to the dipsh*ts sarcastically pointing out that it's two years later....maybe if fred brown got replaced with dixon or denmon (i.e. freshman 2-3 years ago) then running a player (in this case fred) is a good thing. 

when you consider that ron anderson (avg. 7/7 for usf) was, essentially, replaced by abdul herrera and freddy asprilla, it only shows how big of a dipsh*t frank really is.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: michigancat on January 23, 2011, 07:22:11 AM
Running off Fred Brown and replacing him with Myles/Peterson/Spradling/Irving/Russell does far more damage the team than anything Frank could possibly do over a course of a season.  Frank's substitution patterns or overplaying defense or fouling or "set plays" or whatever the dipshit post-loss talking points are just don't matter.

Frank's in game blunders don't matter because of his roster mismanagement?  That makes no since.  If the damage was done two years ago, why watch?  Fred Brown has been gone for two seasons, I couldn't give a crap, I wish he would focus on getting the most out of this roster.

You can worry about whatever you want.  I'm just saying recruiting is the real problem, not your Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) substitution talking point.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: kso_FAN on January 23, 2011, 08:25:46 AM
The 2010-2011 Cats: The Failure of "Buy In or Quit".
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: michigancat on January 23, 2011, 08:35:50 AM
The 2010-2011 Cats: The Failure of "Buy In or Quit".

Well, the quit part worked, I guess.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: kcchiefdav on January 23, 2011, 09:18:03 AM
I agree with everyone in this thread.

There's no need to argue as to what the real problem is, because there are obviously several problems.

The recruiting obviously sucks. Turns out a team full of 3* SGs and SFs (and an often suspended PF) can't do crap on offense. If you think it's bad now, just start running through the possible starting line ups for next year. JamSam, Judge, McG, Irving, Sprads? YIKES

On top of that, Frank's attitude that everyone is replaceable is so rough ridin' high school that it hurts my teeth to think about it. We're talking about a game that is 100% a combination of athleticism and skill. Obviously some people are going to have more of that than others. Taking out the more skilled/athletic guy because he made one mistake is insane. "My good guy made one mistake so i'm gonna make the team worse by putting in a worse guy." I'm not here to argue who is the better or worse guy in any scenario. I'm not qualified to do so. But Frank rough ridin' Martin is, it's his rough ridin' job. He should know who is good and who is ass and play the rough ridin' good players. And when i'm talking good/bad here, i'm talking about the ability to get the ball in the basket. This rough ridin' idea that Frank Martin has figured out this amazing defensive philosophy is total crap. He seems to believe that any 5 random people can stop any NBA all-star team from scoring any points in a game as long as the 5 randoms work hard enough and do their jobs. If you're gonna run your very best defender off, then you're making a commitment to offense. Put the best 5 offensive players in the god damn game and leave them in.

I'll skip the paragraphs on how people not named Pullen can't seem to get better during their stays in our program. I'll also save the paragraph on our new "5 people above the FT line" offense. I'm just so rough ridin' pissed off right now.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: CNS on January 23, 2011, 10:23:47 AM
i hope martin runs russell off.  nothing against russell personally, but i don't like his fans

He has fans?

GPC'ers love them some Nick.  It's disgusting.  Nick will be our BB version of CCQ if he isn't run off.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: MakeItRain on January 23, 2011, 10:25:33 AM
Running off Fred Brown and replacing him with Myles/Peterson/Spradling/Irving/Russell does far more damage the team than anything Frank could possibly do over a course of a season.  Frank's substitution patterns or overplaying defense or fouling or "set plays" or whatever the dipshit post-loss talking points are just don't matter.

Frank's in game blunders don't matter because of his roster mismanagement?  That makes no since.  If the damage was done two years ago, why watch?  Fred Brown has been gone for two seasons, I couldn't give a crap, I wish he would focus on getting the most out of this roster.

You can worry about whatever you want.  I'm just saying recruiting is the real problem, not your Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) substitution talking point.

I've mentioned the poor construction of this roster several times.  Rusty, it's easier to play your contrarian game with someone who actually disagrees with you.  

Now back to why Frank seemingly is unaware of how to use his personnel.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 23, 2011, 12:05:07 PM
A great way to avoid having guys being "talking points" in future years is to actually go out and recruit better players to take their place.

But Frank's merry band of right fit 3 stars, weak Juco players, mid major transfers, and dysfunctional McD AA's isn't going to do anything to offset the discussion of the loss of a guy capable of hitting 40% of his 3's, and one of the better defenders/physical presences we've had. 



Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: Dugout DickStone on January 23, 2011, 12:10:34 PM
I can't believe I used to get mad at Denis.  for anything.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: Gooch on January 23, 2011, 01:56:19 PM
I can't believe I used to get mad at Denis.  for anything.
OMG this. I am so ashamed of myself too.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: Clevey 2 Times on January 23, 2011, 02:02:37 PM
I lost a lot of respect for many of you in this thread.

Really, Fred Brown?!?! GMAFB

Some of you are expending mental energy arguing that "it's not that Myles, Peterson, etc. played, it is who they played with"...as if we have some clear cut rotation that equals success? Also many of you are assuming that we some how failed when they were on the floor. When those guys got most of their minutes (the 1st half), we were tied...

I don't know what some of you have been watching.

Relevant talking points in regards to A&M game in order of importance:
1 - Our inability to run any set offense effectively
2 - Where the hell was McGruder offensively?
3 - Jake Pullen proves again that he is incapable of running the point for this team.

Talking points to never be brought up again:
1 - The fact that Frank played 12 guys in the first half
2 - Our defense (which was good by the way)
3 - Where was Martavious?
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: kso_FAN on January 23, 2011, 02:58:04 PM
I lost a lot of respect for many of you in this thread.

Really, Fred Brown?!?! GMAFB

Some of you are expending mental energy arguing that "it's not that Myles, Peterson, etc. played, it is who they played with"...as if we have some clear cut rotation that equals success? Also many of you are assuming that we some how failed when they were on the floor. When those guys got most of their minutes (the 1st half), we were tied...

I don't know what some of you have been watching.

Relevant talking points in regards to A&M game in order of importance:
1 - Our inability to run any set offense effectively
2 - Where the hell was McGruder offensively?
3 - Jake Pullen proves again that he is incapable of running the point for this team.

Talking points to never be brought up again:
1 - The fact that Frank played 12 guys in the first half
2 - Our defense (which was good by the way)
3 - Where was Martavious?

Good points. I'd argue the number one problem was no points from McGruds. Then, I thought the offensive movement was fine, the problem was we could not generate shots for Kelly to score, especially in the 2nd half. Then only 4 points from JamSam.

I'd say the general rule for this team is that we have 4 guys that are legit consistent double digit scoring threats and we've got to have at least 3 play well and score the ball to win consistently and have effective offense. Like most of our losses, only 2 of those guys played well.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: sys on January 23, 2011, 05:39:53 PM
On top of that, Frank's attitude that everyone is replaceable is so rough ridin' high school that it hurts my teeth to think about it. We're talking about a game that is 100% a combination of athleticism and skill. Obviously some people are going to have more of that than others. Taking out the more skilled/athletic guy because he made one mistake is insane. "My good guy made one mistake so i'm gonna make the team worse by putting in a worse guy."

he really doesn't do this.  the players that are clearly better than anyone else at their position (pullen, mcgruder, samuels, kelly when eligible) play 25-35 minutes each.  virtually every game.  if you're one of a platoon of players of equal ability, then you get pulled for mistakes.  if you're good you aren't.

the only semi-exception would be kelly.  which is pretty defensible, imo, because even though kelly is very skilled, and undeniably kstate's best big, there are stretches when he really plays like crap.  and, in the end, kelly usually gets his minutes too.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: kso_FAN on January 23, 2011, 08:01:53 PM
On top of that, Frank's attitude that everyone is replaceable is so effing high school that it hurts my teeth to think about it. We're talking about a game that is 100% a combination of athleticism and skill. Obviously some people are going to have more of that than others. Taking out the more skilled/athletic guy because he made one mistake is insane. "My good guy made one mistake so i'm gonna make the team worse by putting in a worse guy."

he really doesn't do this.  the players that are clearly better than anyone else at their position (pullen, mcgruder, samuels, kelly when eligible) play 25-35 minutes each.  virtually every game.  if you're one of a platoon of players of equal ability, then you get pulled for mistakes.  if you're good you aren't.

the only semi-exception would be kelly.  which is pretty defensible, imo, because even though kelly is very skilled, and undeniably kstate's best big, there are stretches when he really plays like cac.  and, in the end, kelly usually gets his minutes too.

Thank you sys. Pullen, McGruds, Samuels, and Kelly all played at least 17 minus in the 2nd half yesterday. Its pretty clear Frank views Sprads in the next group, but he'll still pull him if he messes up. And its not like any of the others have earned not being Franked.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 23, 2011, 08:23:23 PM
Love it when the goemawtards get all pissed off whenever Fred Brown is brought up, as if the Fred Brown talking point means he should be starting and playing 35 minutes a game.

Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: Trim on January 23, 2011, 08:49:13 PM
Love it when the goemawtards get all pissed off whenever Fred Brown is brought up, as if the Fred Brown talking point means he should be starting and playing 35 minutes a game.



DAXPAK - 3.5.11
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: swish1 on January 23, 2011, 11:30:00 PM

I'll skip the paragraphs on how people not named Pullen can't seem to get better during their stays in our program. I'll also save the paragraph on our new "5 people above the FT line" offense. I'm just so effing pissed off right now.

mcgruder has improved and hopefully continues too...  he had a bad game, it happens.  pullen has had several this year.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: Clevey 2 Times on January 26, 2011, 08:28:48 PM

I'll skip the paragraphs on how people not named Pullen can't seem to get better during their stays in our program. I'll also save the paragraph on our new "5 people above the FT line" offense. I'm just so effing pissed off right now.

mcgruder has improved and hopefully continues too...  he had a bad game, it happens.  pullen has had several this year.

This is the worst and, to me, a legitimate example of where Frank and Co. need major improvement.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: Trim on February 27, 2011, 08:59:58 AM
Love it when the goemawtards get all pissed off whenever Fred Brown is brought up, as if the Fred Brown talking point means he should be starting and playing 35 minutes a game.



DAXPAK - 3.5.11

:woot:
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: kso_FAN on February 27, 2011, 09:03:02 AM

I'll skip the paragraphs on how people not named Pullen can't seem to get better during their stays in our program. I'll also save the paragraph on our new "5 people above the FT line" offense. I'm just so effing pissed off right now.

mcgruder has improved and hopefully continues too...  he had a bad game, it happens.  pullen has had several this year.

This is the worst and, to me, a legitimate example of where Frank and Co. need major improvement.

I really like how the "this offense is terrible" talking point went away.
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: sys on February 27, 2011, 10:33:24 AM
I really like how the "this offense is terrible" talking point went away.

i still don't like it.  if it is supposedly based on the triangle, why does it look like the exact same cuts every time out?
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: EMAWzified on February 27, 2011, 11:06:42 AM
Remember Wooly's last year when he ditched the triangle midseason (or was it the season before, so forgettable) in a desperate and unsuccessful attempt to keep his job?
Don't know if it's the new offense or just improvement and a better understanding of what they are supposed to be doing, but the team's turnovers have declined drastically in the last month (TOs drive me into the same frenzy as missed FTs the drives the tucks).
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: catzacker on February 27, 2011, 11:08:54 AM
I really like how the "this offense is terrible" talking point went away.

i still don't like it.  if it is supposedly based on the triangle, why does it look like the exact same cuts every time out?

amazing how our defense getting/playing better makes this f'ing offense "great".  i suppose it's just happenstance that in during our 2-5 conf start, our opp's had >1.00 PPP in every game (save for our two wins - TT, BU) and since that time we've allowed >1.00PPP twice (@ISU and MU).  the only thing, imo, that this offense makes this team better at is that it doesn't seem to turn it over as much.  
Title: Re: Southwell/McGruder/Samuels
Post by: kso_FAN on February 27, 2011, 11:44:09 AM
I really like how the "this offense is terrible" talking point went away.

i still don't like it.  if it is supposedly based on the triangle, why does it look like the exact same cuts every time out?

amazing how our defense getting/playing better makes this f'ing offense "great".  i suppose it's just happenstance that in during our 2-5 conf start, our opp's had >1.00 PPP in every game (save for our two wins - TT, BU) and since that time we've allowed >1.00PPP twice (@ISU and MU).  the only thing, imo, that this offense makes this team better at is that it doesn't seem to turn it over as much. 

But we've also only had <1.00 PPP offensively only twice in that stretch.  And an eFG% of 55% or better 4 times.

While I agree that our defense improving is the biggest improvement and that TO% has helped our offense a bunch, we also our hitting shots at a greater rate more often.