firebrucewebernow.com

[Kid In the Hall]

As it relates to firing oscar, this doesn't really matter. But, it does kind of blow my mind that oscar will undeniably have two seasons worse than any seasons Wooly had despite the dumpster fire Wooly inherited and the top 25ish level program oscar inherited.

[Shooter Jones]

Not that this matters at all, but looking at coaches that have left, I'll say I wish just Jack Gardner and Huggy would've stayed, but the results have been interesting.

Gardner to Utah - A program a little better than K-State at the time, then took them to multiple Final 4's. Pretty damn solid results.
Huggy to WV - A program very similar/slightly below K-State, then took them to a Final 4. Pretty damn solid results.
Lon to Florida - A program with zero history at the time, then took them to a Final 4. Decent success. Another Final 4 w/ OU.
Frank to SC - A hilariously bad program historically, then took them to a Final 4. Overall, way below .500 conference coach in a bad conference.
Tex to Washington - A program very similar to K-State at the time. Average results, no tourneys the rest of his days.
Cotton to NBA - P. decent results there.

[MakeItRain]

my hot take of the day is wooly would have gone 9-7 with that Huggs team

Bill Walker didn't really have an impact on that season, I don't think any of the results with him would have been reversed. I think you're right, although I'd be inclined to go 8-8.

[Shooter Jones]

I also received a text today saying that there have been 12 coaches at K-State since WWII ended..... 

[MakeItRain]

I think it’s relevant that Huggins took over from approx. 2 decades of Altman/Asbury/Wooly, that Frank took over from a single year of Huggins that Frank was part of, and that oscar took over from 6 years of Huggins/Frank.

It’s extremely relevant.

How so? Like relevant in what way relative to this conversation?

[nicname]

I think it’s relevant that Huggins took over from approx. 2 decades of Altman/Asbury/Wooly, that Frank took over from a single year of Huggins that Frank was part of, and that oscar took over from 6 years of Huggins/Frank.

It’s extremely relevant.

How so? Like relevant in what way relative to this conversation?

One coach resurrected the program. One took what the other helped build drove it into the dirt.

[Shooter Jones]

I think it’s relevant that Huggins took over from approx. 2 decades of Altman/Asbury/Wooly, that Frank took over from a single year of Huggins that Frank was part of, and that oscar took over from 6 years of Huggins/Frank.

It’s extremely relevant.

How so? Like relevant in what way relative to this conversation?

One coach resurrected the program. One took what the other helped build drove it into the dirt.

There was not a single leftover in the program from Huggy/Frank when oscar went to an Elite 8 and won a conference championship.

Like it or not, that was oscar's program. And the currently dogshit program is oscar's as well, but to me, "resurrecting" a basketball program can be done quickly with roster turnover, and if K-State can get the right coach, he can take the current pieces and win quickly.

[nicname]

I think it’s relevant that Huggins took over from approx. 2 decades of Altman/Asbury/Wooly, that Frank took over from a single year of Huggins that Frank was part of, and that oscar took over from 6 years of Huggins/Frank.

It’s extremely relevant.

How so? Like relevant in what way relative to this conversation?

One coach resurrected the program. One took what the other helped build drove it into the dirt.

There was not a single leftover in the program from Huggy/Frank when oscar went to an Elite 8 and won a conference championship.

Like it or not, that was oscar's program. And the currently dogshit program is oscar's as well, but to me, "resurrecting" a basketball program can be done quickly with roster turnover, and if K-State can get the right coach, he can take the current pieces and win quickly.

Agree.

Note: oscar has ran the program into the dirt twice.

[Shooter Jones]

Note: oscar has ran the program into the dirt twice.

It’s significantly deeper now than the first time, though. Was still a .500 overall team the first dig.

Which scares the hell out of me. Many think he’s rebuilt it before, so he can do it again.

[wetwillie]

Note: oscar has ran the program into the dirt twice.

It’s significantly deeper now than the first time, though. Was still a .500 overall team the first dig.

Which scares the hell out of me. Many think he’s rebuilt it before, so he can do it again.

Where do you get the sense that there are “many” people that think he can do it again?

[michigancat]

I think oscar is just as likely to win another dr. pepper or go to an Elite Eight over the next five years as his replacement would be

[DaBigTrain]

Get lost cRusty

[Shooter Jones]

Note: oscar has ran the program into the dirt twice.

It’s significantly deeper now than the first time, though. Was still a .500 overall team the first dig.

Which scares the hell out of me. Many think he’s rebuilt it before, so he can do it again.

Where do you get the sense that there are “many” people that think he can do it again?

Uh...Because if 100% of the fan base (this would include donors) think he can’t, he’d be fired already?

[ELL3]

Note: oscar has ran the program into the dirt twice.

It’s significantly deeper now than the first time, though. Was still a .500 overall team the first dig.

Which scares the hell out of me. Many think he’s rebuilt it before, so he can do it again.

Where do you get the sense that there are “many” people that think he can do it again?

Uh...Because if 100% of the fan base (this would include donors) think he can’t, he’d be fired already?

Other than Ice who are the pro Oscar donors??

[wetwillie]

Note: oscar has ran the program into the dirt twice.

It’s significantly deeper now than the first time, though. Was still a .500 overall team the first dig.

Which scares the hell out of me. Many think he’s rebuilt it before, so he can do it again.

Where do you get the sense that there are “many” people that think he can do it again?

Uh...Because if 100% of the fan base (this would include donors) think he can’t, he’d be fired already?

He already has been fired, they are just giving him the opportunity to frame it as retirement.

[Shooter Jones]

Hell yes!

[sys]

huggins is like a top ten all time wins, multiple final fours coach.  sure, that's partly because he's had a long career, but if he doesn't make the cut as a "winner", the term basically is irrelevant to any discussion of kstate coaches.

[MakeItRain]

huggins is like a top ten all time wins, multiple final fours coach.  sure, that's partly because he's had a long career, but if he doesn't make the cut as a "winner", the term basically is irrelevant to any discussion of kstate coaches.

Sys, Huggins hasn't fit what chingon classified as a winner in 20 years.

Over simplifying, but let's say we can broadly but coaches into 4 groups.

1. SLTH --- consistently finishes middle of the pack, never wins anything of value, but doesn't have disastrous seasons either

2. The "Puncher" --- if things line up just right they can win the conference and make a deep run in the tournament, but they can also get knocked the eff out and have teams that completely suck. It's hard to tell when a Puncher will never get back up again.

3. The "Winner" ---  just consistently wins things of value, very rare to find

4. The "Loser" --- just consistently loses, always below .500 in conference and never sniffs the big dance

No one is denying his hall of fame credentials, but he's been the definition of a puncher since he won 9 of 11 conference championships between 1992-2002. He's won 2 more titles in the following 19 seasons and 1 since he joined a high major conference.

I blame nicname and his wild ass posts for these things being conflated.

[BIG APPLE CAT]

I think it’s relevant that Huggins took over from approx. 2 decades of Altman/Asbury/Wooly, that Frank took over from a single year of Huggins that Frank was part of, and that oscar took over from 6 years of Huggins/Frank.

It’s extremely relevant.

How so? Like relevant in what way relative to this conversation?

One coach resurrected the program. One took what the other helped build drove it into the dirt.

There was not a single leftover in the program from Huggy/Frank when oscar went to an Elite 8 and won a conference championship.

Like it or not, that was oscar's program. And the currently dogshit program is oscar's as well, but to me, "resurrecting" a basketball program can be done quickly with roster turnover, and if K-State can get the right coach, he can take the current pieces and win quickly.

the problem is that he gets the roster turnover but then runs them off or, instead of developing them they plateau or get worse. He put together that good roster, built by him, one time.

[EMAWzifried]

Oscar's failing is his ineptitude at maintaining a program. He's demonstrated that flaw here and at Illinois, but his current cratering makes his recruiting liabilities more obvious. Everyone saw this coming as far back as 2017, any you can go back on this board and find posters predicting it.
Unfortunately, the pattern continues. One good but hardly great recruiting year is followed by what's shaping up to be a meh class. He has shown no interest or ability to bring in fifth-year seniors or transfer to address immediate needs. His junior college recruits have been well below those of even Asbury or Wooly. He's kept players for multiple seasons who on first-sight clearly weren't D-1 quality and runs off talent who also on first glace aren't the Oscar type.
All this is to say, I don't expect him to be able to make of Pack, Bradford et al amptjer Brown, Wade and Stokes because I sincerely doubt he can keep key players in Manhattan or add piece pieces like Xavier or Cartier.

[schreds21]

I guess he recently retired from being the AD for Riverside City College.

So he's available?

[Trim]

Law of Polarity says oscar stays.

https://twitter.com/42gipsonn/status/1358468283352162311

[EMAWzifried]

"historic highs" lol. What was Oscar's highest final national ranking? 

[nicname]

"historic highs" lol. What was Oscar's highest final national ranking?

2012-13 - 12 AP, 20 Coaches
2017-18 - 19 Coaches
2018-19 - 18 AP, 19 Coaches

[Shooter Jones]

"historic highs" lol. What was Oscar's highest final national ranking?

Do people actually value final ranking? Wouldn’t we have a national championship banner if they did?