competitive little kid sports

[michigancat]

also be honest with yourself on if coaching your own kid is best for your kid - it probably was not the best thing for me to coach my youngest

might as well try

[husserl]

For the last year or so I coached my kid's Y team.  Lots of fun!  But a few months ago we decided to play him up a year in a more advanced program where the head coach was already set.  I'm assistant coaching but walking the tightrope between supporting the head coach and trying to influence practice design for the better has been a struggle.  This past weekend dude implemented a new offense during the 3 minute pre-game warm up.  They're in 3rd grade   

[michigancat]

For the last year or so I coached my kid's Y team.  Lots of fun!  But a few months ago we decided to play him up a year in a more advanced program where the head coach was already set.  I'm assistant coaching but walking the tightrope between supporting the head coach and trying to influence practice design for the better has been a struggle.  This past weekend dude implemented a new offense during the 3 minute pre-game warm up.  They're in 3rd grade   

oh lord. that sounds miserable

[husserl]

we have a LOT of plays

[Cartierfor3]

downside to reading McCormick is that a lot of youth coaches will tend to drive you insane

Yes the solution is to coach yourself


Which leads to parents driving you insane

Been coaching 5th grade girls soccer since they were in Kinder. I never played soccer and my knowledge before coaching was basically "don't use your hands". It's one of my favorite parts of my life. In the fall we went 5-3 and they worked their butts off. My daughter could totally go "competitive" but we're waiting another year to do that and sticking with rec until middle school.

[steve dave]

My daughters basketball team are playing softball this spring together. Trying to find someone to coach them. No former softball players in the mom group. Trying to find a mom to latch onto that A) lives close and B) may be planning to coach one of our clubs competitive teams when her daughter is old enough in a couple years. It’s so strange doing stuff like this. But, we realized how much of it was happening when my son started playing competitive baseball and where we had missed opportunities the couple years before that. Thankfully my other basketball coach/mom played college volleyball and already works with one of our competitive volleyball programs and we’re latching into her for that. Not sure what sports my daughter will decide she actually likes (soccer eliminated this year) but trying to give her the best opportunities until she does. Not sure if this crap is healthy or not (probably not).


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[yoga-like_abana]

Pro tip: just because someone played a sport does not mean they can coach it worth a crap

[steve dave]

Pro tip: just because someone played a sport does not mean they can coach it worth a crap

I know


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[michigancat]

My daughters basketball team are playing softball this spring together. Trying to find someone to coach them. No former softball players in the mom group. Trying to find a mom to latch onto that A) lives close and B) may be planning to coach one of our clubs competitive teams when her daughter is old enough in a couple years. It’s so strange doing stuff like this. But, we realized how much of it was happening when my son started playing competitive baseball and where we had missed opportunities the couple years before that. Thankfully my other basketball coach/mom played college volleyball and already works with one of our competitive volleyball programs and we’re latching into her for that. Not sure what sports my daughter will decide she actually likes (soccer eliminated this year) but trying to give her the best opportunities until she does. Not sure if this crap is healthy or not (probably not).


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What's the end goal?

[Justwin]

downside to reading McCormick is that a lot of youth coaches will tend to drive you insane

Yes the solution is to coach yourself


Which leads to parents driving you insane

Been coaching 5th grade girls soccer since they were in Kinder. I never played soccer and my knowledge before coaching was basically "don't use your hands". It's one of my favorite parts of my life. In the fall we went 5-3 and they worked their butts off. My daughter could totally go "competitive" but we're waiting another year to do that and sticking with rec until middle school.

What is your goal such that you would go competitive in middle school, but not now? I understand why you would rather have it be more relaxed now, but what is the goal in going competitive?

[steve dave]

My daughters basketball team are playing softball this spring together. Trying to find someone to coach them. No former softball players in the mom group. Trying to find a mom to latch onto that A) lives close and B) may be planning to coach one of our clubs competitive teams when her daughter is old enough in a couple years. It’s so strange doing stuff like this. But, we realized how much of it was happening when my son started playing competitive baseball and where we had missed opportunities the couple years before that. Thankfully my other basketball coach/mom played college volleyball and already works with one of our competitive volleyball programs and we’re latching into her for that. Not sure what sports my daughter will decide she actually likes (soccer eliminated this year) but trying to give her the best opportunities until she does. Not sure if this crap is healthy or not (probably not).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What's the end goal?

give her the best opportunity to be the best and keep up with her friends at what she decides she likes the most. I should note we don't push her to do anything. we ask her if she wants to do something and she asks which of her friends are doing it and we tell her and she says yes or no. she just told us she doesn't want to do soccer again and we are not signing up for that again.

[Cartierfor3]

downside to reading McCormick is that a lot of youth coaches will tend to drive you insane

Yes the solution is to coach yourself


Which leads to parents driving you insane

Been coaching 5th grade girls soccer since they were in Kinder. I never played soccer and my knowledge before coaching was basically "don't use your hands". It's one of my favorite parts of my life. In the fall we went 5-3 and they worked their butts off. My daughter could totally go "competitive" but we're waiting another year to do that and sticking with rec until middle school.

What is your goal such that you would go competitive in middle school, but not now? I understand why you would rather have it be more relaxed now, but what is the goal in going competitive?

Kind of weird question.

Let her play on better team against better competition. I don't look at playing sports as something with a "goal" at the end (play in HS or college etc) but we as a family look at the value of learning to compete, be a teammate, be active etc. I watch folks who start travel sports and whatnot at a young age and it's just not for us. But if daughter really likes soccer as a 7th or 8th grader I'm fine letting her try to get on a good team that plays more games with more coaching etc. This year a lot of her old team went "competitive" and my daughter is the best player left, some of the games were frustrating to have her not playing on team with similar skill from other teammates.

For our family dedicating entire weekends and thousands of dollars to travel ball and junk is not for us, at least yet.

[nicname]

downside to reading McCormick is that a lot of youth coaches will tend to drive you insane

Yes the solution is to coach yourself


Which leads to parents driving you insane

Been coaching 5th grade girls soccer since they were in Kinder. I never played soccer and my knowledge before coaching was basically "don't use your hands". It's one of my favorite parts of my life. In the fall we went 5-3 and they worked their butts off. My daughter could totally go "competitive" but we're waiting another year to do that and sticking with rec until middle school.

What is your goal such that you would go competitive in middle school, but not now? I understand why you would rather have it be more relaxed now, but what is the goal in going competitive?

Kind of weird question.

Let her play on better team against better competition. I don't look at playing sports as something with a "goal" at the end (play in HS or college etc) but we as a family look at the value of learning to compete, be a teammate, be active etc. I watch folks who start travel sports and whatnot at a young age and it's just not for us. But if daughter really likes soccer as a 7th or 8th grader I'm fine letting her try to get on a good team that plays more games with more coaching etc. This year a lot of her old team went "competitive" and my daughter is the best player left, some of the games were frustrating to have her not playing on team with similar skill from other teammates.

For our family dedicating entire weekends and thousands of dollars to travel ball and junk is not for us, at least yet.

There is the rub.
The youth sports industrial complex is creating a generation of kids who are either highly trained, and often specialized, or just don’t play altogether because the quality and participation in “rec” sports just isn’t there.

Imo, the goal of youth sports should be to keep as many kids active and enjoying as many sports as possible for as long as possible.

There are no solutions, only trade-offs.

[Justwin]

downside to reading McCormick is that a lot of youth coaches will tend to drive you insane

Yes the solution is to coach yourself


Which leads to parents driving you insane

Been coaching 5th grade girls soccer since they were in Kinder. I never played soccer and my knowledge before coaching was basically "don't use your hands". It's one of my favorite parts of my life. In the fall we went 5-3 and they worked their butts off. My daughter could totally go "competitive" but we're waiting another year to do that and sticking with rec until middle school.

What is your goal such that you would go competitive in middle school, but not now? I understand why you would rather have it be more relaxed now, but what is the goal in going competitive?

Kind of weird question.

Let her play on better team against better competition. I don't look at playing sports as something with a "goal" at the end (play in HS or college etc) but we as a family look at the value of learning to compete, be a teammate, be active etc. I watch folks who start travel sports and whatnot at a young age and it's just not for us. But if daughter really likes soccer as a 7th or 8th grader I'm fine letting her try to get on a good team that plays more games with more coaching etc. This year a lot of her old team went "competitive" and my daughter is the best player left, some of the games were frustrating to have her not playing on team with similar skill from other teammates.

For our family dedicating entire weekends and thousands of dollars to travel ball and junk is not for us, at least yet.

I understand just wanting to compete and not have a goal. I coach my daughter's U14 Girls team that won Division 2 of Heartland League in Kansas City (cross-post stud things thread). We will likely play Division 1 in the spring. It's a pretty remarkable accomplishment for a team from Manhattan. We homeschool, so my daughter won't be playing high school soccer and likely isn't going to try to play any college soccer, but we still like to see how high of a level she can play.

If you wait until 7th or 8th grade, you will be limiting the level your daughter is able to play at and the kind of team she is able to make at tryouts. Yes, there is catching up with the coaching and higher-level competition, but it takes a number of years to make up that gap. We had a girl that moved here from Utah and had never played soccer above a rec level. It has taken her a full year to really get up to speed with the rest of the girls and there are still some things where she can't play as intuitively as other girls. She was kind of lucky in moving to a place like Manhattan, because she was able to get on a high level team due to there not being many girls that tryout. If she had been somewhere like Kansas City, she would have been relegated to a much lower level team and not have developed nearly as much.

I'm not going to say you're making a mistake in waiting. I realize there are tradeoffs for everything and premier soccer can come with a large commitment of time and money. I'm just trying to give you a perspective of a coach and parent that would gently encourage you to consider playing competitive soccer sooner rather than later. I think it will give your daughter more of an opportunity to see what her ceiling is in terms of hitting her potential.

[nicname]

If you have the ability, it’s not hard to make a really good living coaching youth sports or running a program/training center.

Step 1: Make sure to identify and scoop up the true talent, and get them in your program ASAP and however you need to. These are often underprivileged kids, but also kids with both parents being former collegiate athletes themselves.

Step 2: fill out your rosters and training sessions with anyone who is willing to pay.

Step 3: When the kids from step one start getting those scholarships, etc., use that as your selling point to all the suburban parents with all the money.

Step 4: Rinse, repeat and profit.

What you don’t tell them is the truth, that the kids getting scholarships and moving on to higher and higher levels were going to be doing that anyway once they got into school sports.

[Justwin]

If you have the ability, it’s not hard to make a really good living coaching youth sports or running a program/training center.

Step 1: Make sure to identify and scoop up the true talent, and get them in your program ASAP and however you need to. These are often underprivileged kids, but also kids with both parents being former collegiate athletes themselves.

Step 2: fill out your rosters and training sessions with anyone who is willing to pay.

Step 3: When the kids from step one start getting those scholarships, etc., use that as your selling point to all the suburban parents with all the money.

Step 4: Rinse, repeat and profit.

What you don’t tell them is the truth, that the kids getting scholarships and moving on to higher and higher levels were going to be doing that anyway once they got into school sports.

You can believe this if you want, but I don't think that is true. Some would, but some wouldn't.

[steve dave]

I coach my daughter's U14 Girls team that won Division 2 of Heartland League in Kansas City (cross-post stud things thread).

HELL YEAH!

[nicname]

If you have the ability, it’s not hard to make a really good living coaching youth sports or running a program/training center.

Step 1: Make sure to identify and scoop up the true talent, and get them in your program ASAP and however you need to. These are often underprivileged kids, but also kids with both parents being former collegiate athletes themselves.

Step 2: fill out your rosters and training sessions with anyone who is willing to pay.

Step 3: When the kids from step one start getting those scholarships, etc., use that as your selling point to all the suburban parents with all the money.

Step 4: Rinse, repeat and profit.

What you don’t tell them is the truth, that the kids getting scholarships and moving on to higher and higher levels were going to be doing that anyway once they got into school sports.

You can believe this if you want, but I don't think that is true. Some would, but some wouldn't.

What I’m saying is that the kids that are actually elite are going to make it anyway. They’re going to get the needed training and coaching anyway.

You’re absolutely right though, that untrained kids will continue to have a harder and harder time even making high school and even middle school teams.

The net result is fewer kids sticking with sports and gaining all the valuables that come from experience, but the highly-trained select few that remain being more skilled and competitive.

[steve dave]

I think that depends on the sport. You can out athlete everyone else in some sports. you always hear the stories of the kid who never played football and now is a tight end in the NFL or whatever. You can't do that in, like, golf as one on the other extreme. Most sports will have various levels of development required to excel.

[nicname]

@Justwin I’d probably do the same as you, and have. I’m not questioning your parenting. I’m questioning the system and the trade-offs surrounding it. 

[Justwin]

@Justwin I’d probably do the same as you, and have. I’m not questioning your parenting. I’m questioning the system and the trade-offs surrounding it.

I question the system a lot, too. In youth soccer I think there are a lot of problems with the number of kids that play lower-level competitive soccer. They would be better off just playing recreational soccer, but their parents love the idea that their kid plays on a competitive team. Heartland Soccer has 11 divisions in some age groups with 9-11 teams in each division. If you are playing in Division 5 or lower, you should really be asking why you are playing competitive soccer. If you are playing in Division 8 or lower (and are not moving up each season), you should not be playing competitive soccer.

[michigancat]

when you say "divisions" is that like tiers?

And there are 11??? It almost seems like rec isn't much of an option.

My kids soccer until like 3rd grade when "Rec" honestly became too competitive. For basketball, their "rec" league had kids that played AAU year round. It was a mess.

[Kat Kid]

@Justwin I’d probably do the same as you, and have. I’m not questioning your parenting. I’m questioning the system and the trade-offs surrounding it.

I question the system a lot, too. In youth soccer I think there are a lot of problems with the number of kids that play lower-level competitive soccer. They would be better off just playing recreational soccer, but their parents love the idea that their kid plays on a competitive team. Heartland Soccer has 11 divisions in some age groups with 9-11 teams in each division. If you are playing in Division 5 or lower, you should really be asking why you are playing competitive soccer. If you are playing in Division 8 or lower (and are not moving up each season), you should not be playing competitive soccer.

I have no idea what Division my kid is in but the better coaching was for sure the reason we left rec. I didn't want to coach and the level of coaching was really bad and my kid was the best kid in the rec league, he is average on his premier league team and is pretty far behind the better kids in terms of skill and touch. I thought it would be more of a pain in the fall, but it ended up being pretty fun and I like it now and think it is worth it.

[michigancat]

Also my oldest ended up going all-in on swim and water polo. She has teammates that signed D1 this year and she'd like to play in college as well. But like everyone tells her she needs to email coaches where she'd like to play and she's scared to do that - she just wants to play and have them recruit her but it doesn't seem to work like that.

[nicname]

@Justwin I’d probably do the same as you, and have. I’m not questioning your parenting. I’m questioning the system and the trade-offs surrounding it.

I question the system a lot, too. In youth soccer I think there are a lot of problems with the number of kids that play lower-level competitive soccer. They would be better off just playing recreational soccer, but their parents love the idea that their kid plays on a competitive team. Heartland Soccer has 11 divisions in some age groups with 9-11 teams in each division. If you are playing in Division 5 or lower, you should really be asking why you are playing competitive soccer. If you are playing in Division 8 or lower (and are not moving up each season), you should not be playing competitive soccer.

Right on.

A buddy and I took our kids out of rec basketball after 3rd/4th grade because we saw how little the participation was for 5th and 6th graders. It was a good experience for the 10 that joined our new team (there wasn’t a local club to join), but definitely some guilt associated with contributing to the problem, especially when I’d see a kid that I’d helped coach and seemed to really enjoy playing and being part of a team — only to find out they weren’t playing at all anymore.

There is a program in Indiana where a lot of schools are fielding school teams starting in 5th grade. They have “A,” “B” and sometime “C” teams and are coached by teachers, parents and volunteers. They use school time/facilities for practice and games, just like JR High and HS. It’s pretty cool, because they keep participation high and allow all the kids to develop at their appropriate level.