Wide Receiver recruiting

[Poopley]

WTF happened with our WR recruiting 2-4 years ago? We enter spring with 5 WR on 'ship:

Cedric Wilson, who played safety in junior college and was converted to WR once he arrived
Jordy Nelson, walkon and converted safety
Daniel Gonzales, former walkon and slower than TE Jeran Mastrud
Toney Coleman, has lost 2 full seasons to injury and was also injured during his redshirt season
Tony Purvis, arrived at KSU as a CB and was converted to WR

That's it. 1 good one in Jordy Nelson, one injury-prone kid who has never played a meaningful snap, 2 converted safeties in Wilson and Purvis, and another walkon who runs a 5.5 40.

Damn. Lamark, Deon, Ernie, and Danny Hogan have a chance to contribute IMMEDIATELY.

[opcat]

poor recruiting. 

[cireksu]

well, we lost val taylor, and grigsby, Andrew richards was a 3 star I think.

But yes, Snyder's offense of run the qb up the middle 25 times/game over the last 2 seasons probably didn't help wr recruiting.


Also not producing an nfl reciever since quincy morgan didn't help either.

[doom]

Snyder put a lot more emphasis in the run, especially in this last 3 years.

[fatty fat fat]

losing moreira and figurs is going to hurt like a bitch.

[cireksu]

With the inexperience of our recieving corps and unproven offensive line, it might actually be possible that our offense starts off slower this year than it did last year.

[CUFAN]

Have you seen the kids you are going after right now??

Sterlin James Ht: 6-foot-6 Wt: 210 lbs
D.L. Moore Ht: 6-foot-6 Wt: 185 lbs
Corey Surrency Ht: 6-foot-5 Wt: 210 lbs

WOW! those are some huge WR's

[waks]

With the inexperience of our recieving corps and unproven offensive line, it might actually be possible that our offense starts off slower this year than it did last year.

Jucos learn fast.

[cireksu]

 Quincy Morgan, and James Terry Didn't learn fast.  Quincy had an ok Junior year, Terry was pretty much non existant until his senior year.  I couldn't find Darnell McDonald's stats to compare.

that doesn't mean our juco's won't contribute, but I won't write it in stone that they will either.

[Fausto]

"Quincy had an ok Junior year, Terry was pretty much non existant until his senior year."

I'll take an ok year from a number of K-State's wide receivers this year if ok is defined as 42 receptions, 1007 yards, 9 TDs and Big XII first team honors.  Mark me down for wanting some non existant performances which total 561 yards (20 yards per catch) and 5 TDs as well.  By the looks of things, having two ok performances and two non existant performances should mean a pretty good year!

If your point is Juco WRs often have not come in and made an immediate impact then I would note Quincy did redshirt in 98.  I think that helped long-term however, because he was able to redshirt with Beasley.

BTW, I believe Darnell's stats from Jr. year ('97) were 441 yards, 6 TDs.    Which somewhat fits into the James Terry mold.  Or would it be the Darnell McDonald mold because he came first.  Aww, you get the idea.  That's from crunching numbers in an old media guide.

[cireksu]

Point is we've had 3 juco recievers that have come in and had any kind of an impact in 10 years.  Not many.

[The Manhatter]

I don't see how the offense could be worse than last year.

1) full year in the new offense and Freeman will be in his 2nd year as a starter.

2) the wide receiving corps was bombed last year by injuries and defections.  Moreira didn't play half of the season so I fail to see how he is a "loss" given that he wasn't even playing when we beat ISU, CU, and Texas.  Jordy wasn't even close to 100% last year and didn't play for long stretches of games the first half of the season.  Val Taylor and Grigsby were gone before the season started and Coleman got hurt before the season started.  And let's not make Figurs to be something he is not, a great a receiver.  Yes, Yo has great vertical speed to stretch the field. Yes, he's very good on special teams.  But as a receiver he was limited because he's mainly a straightline speed guy.  He didn't have the elusiveness or change or direction skills to gain a lot of seperation...we relied more on Moreira for that when he was healthy.

3)  The OL did have stretches of good play.  Yes, they were horrible overall but how could the line be worse in '07?  I don't see it.  The addition of the 3 Jucos along w/ Bedore and Stringer returning w/ an added year of experience...all of them will be a year older and a year further into what Prince wants to do.  Look at Nebraska's OL this past season...they were actually worse in '05 than KSU was in '06..look at NU's stats if you don't believe me.  That NU OL in '06 didn't have much talent.

4) 2 first year RB's to the program in Patton and Johnson.


It's not like our receivers will be great in '07 but we'll have more ability and size than I recall KSU having in some time. 

The offense won't be great but it will be better than '06 and that was good enough to win 7 games and go bowling.  I'm more concerned about defense and special teams.  Those two areas are more important to winning than offense.  It's that way for every program.

[cireksu]

On paper the offense should be much better.  But the proof is in the puddin.  After the disastrous play at the end of the year last year I'm a little skeptical. 

I agree though, we should have many more weapons this year.


One thing that I didn't get is after the texas game I didn't see much of the same wrinkles against  ku or rutgers, not much shifting, getting the ball to patton or jj in the slots etc.

Of course it could have been freeman looking for the home run too much rather than just taking what was given.

I guess part of that was not having recievers to really work pockets in the D.

[The Manhatter]

cire, why would the last two games make you skeptical?

Throw out the ku game.  If you can't field a talented receiver w/ any health then that is what our type of offense will look like.  And ku had a good run defense last year...we did get the first RB over 100 yards on them in over a year. 

The Rutgers game we just played a very good defense w/ a chip on their shoulder...how did Nebaska's offense look against Auburn?  Great defenses will suffocate young, inexperienced, first year offenses.


It's not just "on paper"...we return a lot of players who will be a year older, a year stronger, a year more experienced, a year longer in Prince's program.  The OL sucked in '05 because it was outrageously young...the OL sucked in '06 because it was inexperienced but also in a new scheme altogether.  Eliminate some of those factors and more success is predictable.


Think about our receiving corps last year...hardly anybody was healthy and while we did have experience they were in a new offense.  We should be greater in numbers and have more specific skills.  Take Pierce and Lamark...did we have anybody last year who could catch a slant pass in tight man coverage or body up on a jump ball down the sidelines or in the endzone?  You look at Murphy...both he and Hogan have the athletic ability to seperate from coverage...who did we have last year that could do that?  Moreira?  Sure, when he was healthy and once he had the ball in his hands it's not like he has Murphy or Hogan's speed.

All I'm saying is that the numbers, experience, maturity, and skill should be greater for the offense this season.  I don't see how the offense won't be improved.

[fatty fat fat]

Throw out the ku game.  If you can't field a talented receiver w/ any health then that is what our type of offense will look like.  And ku had a good run defense last year...we did get the first RB over 100 yards on them in over a year. 

You can't throw out the ku game. There will be games with multiple injuries.

The Rutgers game we just played a very good defense w/ a chip on their shoulder...how did Nebaska's offense look against Auburn?  Great defenses will suffocate young, inexperienced, first year offenses.

We will play alot of "rutgers" type teams this year. Prince scheduled them. That's a horrible excuse.

Think about our receiving corps last year...hardly anybody was healthy and while we did have experience they were in a new offense.  We should be greater in numbers and have more specific skills.  Take Pierce and Lamark...did we have anybody last year who could catch a slant pass in tight man coverage or body up on a jump ball down the sidelines or in the endzone?  You look at Murphy...both he and Hogan have the athletic ability to seperate from coverage...who did we have last year that could do that?  Moreira?  Sure, when he was healthy and once he had the ball in his hands it's not like he has Murphy or Hogan's speed.

None of use have seen Hogan or Murphy play. There weren't highly recruited so we shouldn't expect much. Every team in the country has a bunch of 2** recruits that they claim were "under the radar" Hell, look at the retards at jayhawkslant.com spinning their awful recruiting class. Injuries? EVERY TEAM IN THE COUNTRY DEALS WITH THOSE! We were healthy on defense heading into the Texas Bowl, everyone thought that would mean a huge improvement from the ku game. Didn't do crap.

All I'm saying is that the numbers, experience, maturity, and skill should be greater for the offense this season.  I don't see how the offense won't be improved.

Agreed, but there is no reason to believe the drop-off in defense will simply cancel out the two.

[pissclams]

Throw out the ku game.  If you can't field a talented receiver w/ any health then that is what our type of offense will look like.  And ku had a good run defense last year...we did get the first RB over 100 yards on them in over a year. 

You can't throw out the ku game. There will be games with multiple injuries.

The Rutgers game we just played a very good defense w/ a chip on their shoulder...how did Nebaska's offense look against Auburn?  Great defenses will suffocate young, inexperienced, first year offenses.

We will play alot of "rutgers" type teams this year. Prince scheduled them. That's a horrible excuse.

Think about our receiving corps last year...hardly anybody was healthy and while we did have experience they were in a new offense.  We should be greater in numbers and have more specific skills.  Take Pierce and Lamark...did we have anybody last year who could catch a slant pass in tight man coverage or body up on a jump ball down the sidelines or in the endzone?  You look at Murphy...both he and Hogan have the athletic ability to seperate from coverage...who did we have last year that could do that?  Moreira?  Sure, when he was healthy and once he had the ball in his hands it's not like he has Murphy or Hogan's speed.

None of use have seen Hogan or Murphy play. There weren't highly recruited so we shouldn't expect much. Every team in the country has a bunch of 2** recruits that they claim were "under the radar" Hell, look at the retards at jayhawkslant.com spinning their awful recruiting class. Injuries? EVERY TEAM IN THE COUNTRY DEALS WITH THOSE! We were healthy on defense heading into the Texas Bowl, everyone thought that would mean a huge improvement from the ku game. Didn't do @#%$.

All I'm saying is that the numbers, experience, maturity, and skill should be greater for the offense this season.  I don't see how the offense won't be improved.

Agreed, but there is no reason to believe the drop-off in defense will simply cancel out the two.

testify

[The Manhatter]

You can't throw out the ku game. There will be games with multiple injuries.

Yes, I can throw it out for the purposes of what Cire was stressing.  Injuries do happen but how many times will we have an entire unit wiped out that will dictate the entire gameplan?  I'm not talking about a player or two..I'm talking about an entire unit.  ku ranked 115th in pass defense.  Let me repeat that.  ku ranked 115th in pass defense.  They could not stop anybody.  Wiping out an entire recieving unit allowed them to do things they were not doing the entire year.

ku game = anomaly

We will play alot of "rutgers" type teams this year. Prince scheduled them. That's a horrible excuse.

I'm excusing that game last year for THIS year?  I wasn't aware of that.  No, I was just making a point that last year's offense was bound to get throttled by Rutgers D.  The 2003 offense would struggle w/ the '06 Rutgers D...not as much as we did but great defenses give very good offenses problems and we didn't have a good offense.  A month after the season wasn't going to change that.  We didn't have enough experience, athletes, etc, etc.

None of use have seen Hogan or Murphy play. There weren't highly recruited so we shouldn't expect much. Every team in the country has a bunch of 2** recruits that they claim were "under the radar" Hell, look at the retards at jayhawkslant.com spinning their awful recruiting class. Injuries? EVERY TEAM IN THE COUNTRY DEALS WITH THOSE! We were healthy on defense heading into the Texas Bowl, everyone thought that would mean a huge improvement from the ku game. Didn't do @#%$.

True, we have not seen any of these kids play for KSU but we can see their athleticism on the video.  We can compare that to what we have or have had on the offense the past few years..what we have been missing.  I trust those who have seen Murphy play in person and I trust my own eyes watching some of those highlights of Hogan. 

I don't remember saying anything about defense...this thread was about the offense so I'm not sure why you bring up our defense in the Texas Bowl.  I knew we were going to get smashed on both sides of the ball by Rutgers.  We weren't as healthy as you make us out to be for that game but healthy enough.  I'm well aware that every team has injuries...I was talking about the receiving corps.

And, finally, what is w/ the "they weren't highly recruited so we shouldn't expect much"?  What the hell does "highly recruited" have to do w/ anything?  If Bobby Bowden didn't want them they don't stand a chance? 


I guess I should just buy into it that returning a lot of players, a 2nd year in Prince's system, more skill...none of that will make a difference.  We suck and there is nothing we can do about it.

[fatty fat fat]

ku game = anomaly

Yeah. It's not like we had other games where we were held to 1 offensive TD or less (UL, BU, NU, RU)

And excuse the Rutgers game all you want, but YOU DO REALIZE WE WILL BE PLAYING ALOT OF THOSE TYPE OF TEAMS THIS YEAR. INCLUDING ONE THE FIRST GAME OF THE YEAR. I don't want to be embarrassed, and I want excuse another 177 yard output (along with 6 million interceptions)

And also excuse me for not thinking a bunch of 2** recruits will be the difference.

[ds43fan]

ku game = anomaly

Yeah. It's not like we had other games where we were held to 1 offensive TD or less (UL, BU, NU, RU)

And excuse the Rutgers game all you want, but YOU DO REALIZE WE WILL BE PLAYING ALOT OF THOSE TYPE OF TEAMS THIS YEAR. INCLUDING ONE THE FIRST GAME OF THE YEAR. I don't want to be embarrassed, and I want excuse another 177 yard output (along with 6 million interceptions)

And also excuse me for not thinking a bunch of 2** recruits will be the difference.

Agreed we better be able to play big teams quick this year or it could be a long season

[The Manhatter]

Yeah. It's not like we had other games where we were held to 1 offensive TD or less (UL, BU, NU, RU)

Yeah, it's not like we didn't have Figurs and/or Moreira or those teams had far superior defenses to ku.  Yep, throwing Rutgers or Louisville D in same breath w/ ku D = realist.

And excuse the Rutgers game all you want, but YOU DO REALIZE WE WILL BE PLAYING ALOT OF THOSE TYPE OF TEAMS THIS YEAR. INCLUDING ONE THE FIRST GAME OF THE YEAR. I don't want to be embarrassed, and I want excuse another 177 yard output (along with 6 million interceptions)

Rutgers had a great defense.  We had a poor offense.  What did you expect?  Let's be realistic about where they WERE and where we WERE when we stepped on the field in Houston.  I'm not saying I EXPECT or EXCUSE THAT performance based on the upcoming season.  But I will tell you this...it doesn't make a difference how good our offense is going to be because GREAT defenses will always limit what we do. LOL that you felt you needed to fill me in on the fact we will be playing some very good defenses this season.  Auburn will be a nightmare to face on the road in game one.  I think Kansas will have a very good defense in '07, etc.

But it was year one and we played a TON of young and inexperienced players...what do you want from them?  What did you expect?  '03 Big 12 championship type numbers?  Get realistic...it's going to be a process of improving. 

And also excuse me for not thinking a bunch of 2** recruits will be the difference.

You're excused and before you give any of those kids a chance to prove themselves.  So it is written..they done.

[fatty fat fat]

Yeah, it's not like we didn't have Figurs and/or Moreira or those teams had far superior defenses to ku.  Yep, throwing Rutgers or Louisville D in same breath w/ ku D = realist.

Nebraska wasn't that great of a defense. Neither was Baylor.

[/quote]

Rutgers had a great defense.  We had a poor offense. 

Yeah. We'll, we shouldn't have scheduled Auburn then. Get ready, it's about to happen again.

But it was year one and we played a TON of young and inexperienced players...what do you want from them?  What did you expect?  '03 Big 12 championship type numbers?  Get realistic...it's going to be a process of improving. 

Our offense wasn't that bad last year. It's just stupid to think we aren't going to struggle early on with a bunch of unspectacular WR's and essentially the same o-line.

You're excused and before you give any of those kids a chance to prove themselves.  So it is written..they done.

Not my point. And you know it. All I ask is consistency, if a Hawker spins his 2** recruits saying they are going to own the college football universe you have to respect that because you are doing the same thing. We may have nice playes, but 75% of the big 12 will more than likely have better players.

Maybe Prince should win a legitimate recruiting battle here and there.

[The Manhatter]

Nebraska wasn't that great of a defense. Neither was Baylor.

First of all I said Rutgers and Louisville.  And for Nebraska and Baylor we had Figurs and Moreira...what part of that don't you get?  And Nebraska and Baylor were not 115 in Pass D.  It's not that hard to figure out...No Figurs, No Moreira, Half-Jordy vs. 115 Pass D.  And Baylor was first road game and Meier starting.

Yeah. We'll, we shouldn't have scheduled Auburn then. Get ready, it's about to happen again.

because '06 = '07?  Is that it?  Teams never improve?  Last year was last year.  I'm not saying we're going in to pound it down Auburn's throat but not sure why you equate '06 to '07...different year, different players, more experienced players...'nuff said.

Our offense wasn't that bad last year. It's just stupid to think we aren't going to struggle early on with a bunch of unspectacular WR's and essentially the same o-line.

Yes, our offense was bad last year.  No, it's not stupid to think we're going ot be better...but stop right there..who said we wouldn't struggle early on?  Who?  I never said we wouldn't struggle early on next year.  Please find where I said that.

"Unspectacular WR's"?  What do you expect?  USC or OU's wide out group?  Reality time...we don't need a wide receiver corps filled w/ a lot of great playmakers...we only need one playmaker and a number of solid players.  That's it...so fold up and put away the "unpectacular"...Boise wins all of the time w/ "unspectacular" players.

Not my point. And you know it. All I ask is consistency, if a Hawker spins his 2** recruits saying they are going to own the college football universe you have to respect that because you are doing the same thing. We may have nice playes, but 75% of the big 12 will more than likely have better players.

Why do you revolve every opinion you have based on stars and offers?  I don't so I'm not sure why you are bringing me into this.  I have gone to the hawker board on many an occasion and told them they landed a kid who is UNDERRATED.  I don't judge kids by the stars..I watch their video and base my opinion on what I think of them.  Sorry but I don't get into the stars or offers debates..I could give a crap how many stars a kid receives.  LOL, when OU gained a commitment from Jaquin Iglesias just a week before signing day a few years ago and the only offer he had was UTEP I went over to the Sooner board and said he would be better than Huggins and the other stud receiver in that class not named Malcolm Kelly.  So save your "consistency" stories for others...when a no-name Danny Hogan committed I didn't think the world had ended because he was some 2 star kid w/ only SMU going after him....waited til I saw him.  He's a stud. 

Anything else?

[fatty fat fat]

No.

[The Manhatter]

fatty, you know I still  you.

But on these receivers.  I have been attending those signing class video deals since they started and this is by far the best class for receivers that I can remember.  The '02 class looked pretty good but wasn't as skill specific.  I know a guy who is tight w/ a coach in the Jayhawk conference...Murphy is a stud.  He's short and slight but he's a burner and he can get open.  He's got very impressive elusiveness skills.  The Hogan kid...can you recall any KSU receiver not named Quincy Morgan who looked anything like Hogan in those video clips?  Yes, I realize that was HS competition but video doesn't lie when it comes to raw athleticism.  And that doesn't get into Lamark.  Lamark might not turn out to be some phenom receiver but he's very big and strong for a receiver and has RB skills for YAC.  Throw in a healthy Jordy, a Cedric Wilson who should be improved and I don't see why we should be lacking at receiver.

It is far better to have a QB and key OL returning than wide receivers.  I think we'll be set at RT w/ Stringer and more than adequate at center and RG.  I see Alesana as possibly being the LG.  My biggest concern is LT.

The offense isn't going to look pretty against Auburn in game one but guess what?  How did Nebraska look against USC on the road last year in game 2?  Nebraska had a pretty good offense w/ a lot of experienced players and couldn't do a damned thing against a USC defense that is probably on par w/ what we'll see at Auburn.

[catzacker]

I don't care about WR's.  Out of the plethora of ATH's and true WR's in this past recruiting class, atleast ONE should be good.  I don't expect much out of Jordy.  Our OL needs to quit acting like a bunch of school girls and our QB needs to quit giving the ball to the other team.  Also, I wouldn't mind it if our defense stopped the run every once in a while.

[The Manhatter]

zacker, I think you speak for all of us about the most pressing concerns.

[catzacker]

zacker, I think you speak for all of us about the most pressing concerns.

I think everyone knows the concerns, just have different ideas/scenarios about how they'll be addressed.  I still haven't seen much out of the OL to make me think they'll be worth a damn.  And the conversation about the offense starts and stops at that.  Should our OL begin to develop, I'd like to see more than the 5 various plays we run out of maybe 3 formations.  Defensively, I don't care what set we run out of (3-4, 4-3) just stop the f-ing run.  Line up in Punt Block if we have to. 

[fatty fat fat]

zacker, I think you speak for all of us about the most pressing concerns.

I think everyone knows the concerns, just have different ideas/scenarios about how they'll be addressed.  I still haven't seen much out of the OL to make me think they'll be worth a damn.  And the conversation about the offense starts and stops at that.  Should our OL begin to develop, I'd like to see more than the 5 various plays we run out of maybe 3 formations.  Defensively, I don't care what set we run out of (3-4, 4-3) just stop the f-ing run.  Line up in Punt Block if we have to. 

We had a very nice improvement in the run game from the 2005 season last year. That was very encouraging, but may have to do with better RB's carrying the rock.

[PoetWarrior]

All that matters is how fresh your WRs look.










Lamark, Danny, Ernie, and Deon all express warriormanship.

[PoetWarrior]

Get serious.