Okay, now we can move on and make the NCAA Tournament...

[ksu_FAN]

We all wanted to beat ku and tonight stunk.  We all knew we had to make certain things happen, and we didn't get it done.  We handled the ball and Rush struggled, but we had to shoot the ball well and we didn't.  32% simply won't cut it, and as Rusty said above to shoot essentually 20% worse than ku and not get beat by 30 is pretty astounding.  We needed 50 from Martin, Hoskins, and Harris; we got 38, and we lost by 9.  Pretty simple there.  We got beat on the boards by 10, and we had to keep that fairly even, though we did get 14 offensive boards.  Finally, we had to find a way to keep ku from scoring at the rim, and Collins off the dribble and Wright off the glass were too much for us.  Chalmers hit some awefully timely shots as well.

If this was a loss to someone else, we'd have every right to be ticked.  However, this was a very talented ku team showing why they are a Top 5 team and deserve a 1 seed.  We didn't get ku playing fabulous, but we got ku playing pretty darn good, and that team playing like that probably still beats every team in the country outside the top 10 to 15.

Now we got to move on and beat a CU team that we can't let hang around, an OSU team not in the same league as ku, and finish out with a win at home vs OU.  3rd place still isn't out of the question and 4th is ours to lose.  A trip to the dance is still ours to lose. 

[michigancat]

Really, the only thing we didn't do wrong is turn the ball over much.

11-5 would be in-&@#%ing-credible.

[ksu_FAN]

Really, the only thing we didn't do wrong is turn the ball over much.

11-5 would be in-&*$@!ing-credible.

FT line wasn't horrible.  ku got more attempts but only outscored us by 2 from the line.  Not turning the ball over is half the battle vs ku, there is a reason they are maybe the best defensive team in the country.

[sys]

Really, the only thing we didn't do wrong is turn the ball over much.

11-5 would be in-&*$@!ing-credible.

i see where you are coming from, but listening to the game and glancing over the stats, i really had more of a feeling that the only thing we did wrong was not hit shots.  could have been better on the boards, but it wasn´t horrible.

[michigancat]

Really, the only thing we didn't do wrong is turn the ball over much.

11-5 would be in-&*$@!ing-credible.

i see where you are coming from, but listening to the game and glancing over the stats, i really had more of a feeling that the only thing we did wrong was not hit shots.  could have been better on the boards, but it wasn´t horrible.

I guess it just felt like every offensive rebound KSU allowed was just devastating.  I'd love to see second chance points.

We allowed them to shoot over 50%.

We let them have too many transition baskets in the first half.

And that "not making shots" thing is kind of critical in basketball games.

[sys]

A trip to the dance is still ours to lose. 

i, very roughly, estimate ksu´s chance at about 67%.  as below.


assume cu 100% chance win, a 2nd game at okc 25% chance, all others 50%

3 more wins = 53% chance of occurring x 100% chance in = 53%.

0-2 vs ou/osu, 2 wins in okc - 3%
1-1 + 1 in okc - 25%
2-0 + whatever in okc - 25%

2 more wins = approx 34% of occurring x 40% of getting in = 14%.

[sys]

I guess it just felt like every offensive rebound KSU allowed was just devastating.

We allowed them to shoot over 50%.

We let them have too many transition baskets in the first half.

And that "not making shots" thing is kind of critical in basketball games.

good points.

[catsfan20012002]

We could easily go 3-0 the rest of the way but I'd settle for 2-1. That puts us at 21-22 wins going into the Big XII Tournament and we should be able to feel pretty solid going into the Big XII Tournament. Right?

[sys]

depends on what you mean by solid.  2.-1 over the next three leaves ksu needing a 1st round win in okc to feel safe.  personally, i don´t like that.

[ksu_FAN]

We've got to win enough to drop our RPI into the lower 40s.  It will probably take two more decent wins to do that.  A road win at CU will have little effect.  A road loss at OSU wouldn't kill us.  After that, a win vs OU probably puts us in the upper 40s.  Then depending on what goes down a bye or a meanless game vs CU or BU that might even hurt our RPI even with a win.  I agree with sys, this team probably needs to find 3 more wins to be comfortable on selection sunday.  I said last week when we lost to Nebraska that the main thing it did was really shrink our margin for error and we are seeing that right now.  That said, I think this team has that in them.  Martin is trying to carry this team right now and none of our opponents will present the match-up issues that ku did.  Outside a weak performance like we showed at NU, 3 wins is definately a high possibility with this team IMO.

[pissclams]

RPI doesn't matter.

[BoWinkle]

Seriously if we get a bid, we could be the biggest sleeper in the tourney.  You saw last night that we are just as good as the Gayhawks.  Were tough on D and that alone can take us to the Final Four.

[sys]

Seriously if we get a bid, we could be the biggest sleeper in the tourney.  You saw last night that we are just as good as the Gayhawks.  Were tough on D and that alone can take us to the Final Four.

dude.  you´re crazy.

[michigancat]

Seriously if we get a bid, we could be the biggest sleeper in the tourney.  You saw last night that we are just as good as the Gayhawks.  Were tough on D and that alone can take us to the Final Four.

Who's sock is this?

[Skycat]

I can't believe USC lost to Arizona St.

 

[ksu_FAN]

RPI doesn't matter.

The committee has said that RPI mainly comes into effect when comparing two teams, especially for those last few spots.  So at the end if they're trying to decide between say KSU and West Virginia, they may see two teams that have similar records in their last 10, similar conference records, but WVU could have a slightly better RPI to go along with their big win over UCLA which might push them over the edge.  I agree that RPI gets way overplayed, but it does factor in, and especially in the situation we might put ourselves in with the committee.  We need to get it down into the lower 40s IMO.  That in itself wouldn't get us in, but it might help us when the committee starts comparing teams for the last few slots and it could help our seeding.

[WildGunman]

i see where you are coming from, but listening to the game and glancing over the stats, i really had more of a feeling that the only thing we did wrong was not hit shots.  could have been better on the boards, but it wasn´t horrible.

I agree, this was all about making shots.  The rebounding margin in the box score was a direct result of our missing so many shots.  ku had a lot more defensive rebound opportunities.  We took something like 12 more shots than they did, we were even with them in offensive boards.  The telling stat in this game, aside from the wide margin in shooting percentage, (and a stat I haven't seen yet) is second chance points.  While we got just as many offensive boards as they did, we converted very few of them into points...they converted almost all of them (most of the points from ku bigs came via the put-back).

[pissclams]

RPI doesn't matter.

The committee has said that RPI mainly comes into effect when comparing two teams, especially for those last few spots.  So at the end if they're trying to decide between say KSU and West Virginia, they may see two teams that have similar records in their last 10, similar conference records, but WVU could have a slightly better RPI to go along with their big win over UCLA which might push them over the edge.  I agree that RPI gets way overplayed, but it does factor in, and especially in the situation we might put ourselves in with the committee.  We need to get it down into the lower 40s IMO.  That in itself wouldn't get us in, but it might help us when the committee starts comparing teams for the last few slots and it could help our seeding.

The committee has made no comments about what does and what doesn't matter to my knowledge.  As a matter of fact until the NCAA held a mock bracket placement thingy for the media in Indianapolis a couple weeks ago there was never any discussion from the NCAA as to what they looked at.  Dennis Dodd was in it in Indy and said surprisingly that not once was RPI even mentioned in the room.  Now maybe he was lying to us, but...the only thing that really matters is wins.  Why focus on RPI when you're told it doesn't matter and ignore wins when you're told it does?  We need to win.  We win, and regardless of our RPI, we're in.

[ksu_FAN]

I've heard the committee say in the past on selection sunday after the bracket is set that RPI is a factor mainly comparing two teams.  Its not the only factor, but it comes into play.  I haven't read Dodd's deal about the selection thing the media did.  I agree that the RPI isn't nearly as big a deal as some make it out to be, but I don't think its a nonfactor either.  The issue is that when we talk about it we isolate it, and in no way does that happen when they are deciding teams.  RPI is lumped into the discussion with what a team has done their last 10, how they did in their conference, quality wins, etc. 

[michigancat]

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/9987079/1

• The committee never, ever talks about RPI or the number of teams getting in from one conference. Amazingly, we didn't either.

He never really says what they did talk about though.

[ksu_FAN]

There has to be some measurement to factor quality wins and SOS to name a couple, and for all we know they use RPI to do that.  I don't think in their discussions they say things like "KSU's RPI is 58 and West Virginias is 46, who should go?".  I think most people simply have wrong how RPI is used b/c us fans often take it on its own, and it seems to me for the committee they use it to count quality wins, how you did in the OOC, and SOS, etc. and not to "rank" teams.

[cireksu]

we're going to get hosed if we don't win out, I just know it.

[michigancat]

Katz's thoughts:

Throughout the voting, there were open, frank discussions of teams, requests for teams to be put on the overhead screen against each other, and debate over the merits of wins, losses, and nonconference scheduling.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=2758650

[ksu_FAN]

Thanks for the links.  I had glanced at some of those, but not read them in depth.

My feel is still this; win 3 more games and be comfortable on selection sunday waiting to see our seed, win 2 more and be very nervous.

[WilliamTheWildcat]

I think the Cats have to win three.  It's certainly possible.  Finish 4th/3rd and leave no doubt.