In which games has KSU had the best player on the floor?

[michigancat]

In conference, I'd have to say Iowa State (and that freshman will eventually be better than anyone we have, Hoskins included).

All other teams have at least one better player:

ku:  Everyone
MU:  Hannah
NU:  Maric
CU:  Roby
UT:  That skinny guy...his name escapes me at the moment.
BU:  Bruce, Jerrels, Rogers (all of these are questionable)
TT:  Jackson, Zeno (?)
aTm: Law IV, Jones (?)

Great point by Keitz.

[WildCatzPhreak]

I disagree.  Hoskins is better than anyone on Baylors team, and Iowa State's.

[BullHawkWheel]

sorry i would take kevin rogers over any player ksu has(excluding walker because he is injured)

[ECN]

imagine that

[Dan Rydell]

aTm, for about five minutes.

 

[pissclams]

The best player or the player who played the best that game?

[michigancat]

The best player or the player who played the best that game?

Best player.  Roby, without question, is better than anyone we have, even though he just had 5 points.

[Bookcat]

This is still JWooly's team pretty much. We still have that talent. The new Huggin's guys are projects and aren't near as good as other freshmen in this conference among teams in the top half in teh Big XII right now.

Young, Bennett, Colon, Maybank..

would any of these guys start for ku, UT, A&M, TTech, Ostate?

We're fighting for a first round bye with those teams. Remarkable really, without Walker.

[catzacker]

In conference, I'd have to say Iowa State (and that freshman will eventually be better than anyone we have, Hoskins included).

All other teams have at least one better player:

ku:  Everyone
MU:  Hannah
NU:  Maric
CU:  Roby
UT:  That skinny guy...his name escapes me at the moment.
BU:  Bruce, Jerrels, Rogers (all of these are questionable)
TT:  Jackson, Zeno (?)
aTm: Law IV, Jones (?)

Great point by Keitz.

I think a better way to analyze it is if you were going to pick an All Star team between KSU and it's oppoenent, who would make the team. 

ku:  no one from KSU
MU: Hannah, Brown....Martin, Hoskins, Harris (because he loves playing MU)
Baylor: Bruce, Jerrels, Rogers....Hoskins, Martin
CU: Roby, Silas, Coleman...Martin, Hoskins
UT: Durant, Abraham, Augustine, Mason....Hoskins
TT: Zeno, Jackson, Dora....Hoskins, Martin
ATM: Jones, Law, Carter, Kirk....Hoskins
NU: Maric, Perry...Hoskins, Martin, Harris, Akeem
ISU: Taylor...Hoskins, Martin, Harris, Akeem

[michigancat]

In conference, I'd have to say Iowa State (and that freshman will eventually be better than anyone we have, Hoskins included).

All other teams have at least one better player:

ku:  Everyone
MU:  Hannah
NU:  Maric
CU:  Roby
UT:  That skinny guy...his name escapes me at the moment.
BU:  Bruce, Jerrels, Rogers (all of these are questionable)
TT:  Jackson, Zeno (?)
aTm: Law IV, Jones (?)

Great point by Keitz.

I think a better way to analyze it is if you were going to pick an All Star team between KSU and it's oppoenent, who would make the team. 

ku:  no one from KSU
MU: Hannah, Brown....Martin, Hoskins, Harris (because he loves playing MU)
Baylor: Bruce, Jerrels, Rogers....Hoskins, Martin
CU: Roby, Silas, Coleman...Martin, Hoskins
UT: Durant, Abraham, Augustine, Mason....Hoskins
TT: Zeno, Jackson, Dora....Hoskins, Martin
ATM: Jones, Law, Carter, Kirk....Hoskins
NU: Maric, Perry...Hoskins, Martin, Harris, Akeem
ISU: Taylor...Hoskins, Martin, Harris, Akeem

Mine:

ku:  no one from KSU (agree)
MU: Hannah, Brown....Martin, Hoskins, Harris  (agree)
Baylor: Bruce, Jerrels, Rogers....Hoskins, Martin  (agree)
CU: Roby, Silas...Martin, Hoskins, Harris
UT: Durant, Abraham, Augustine, Mason....Hoskins  (agree)
TT: Zeno, Jackson....Hoskins, Martin, Harris
ATM: Jones, Law, Carter....Hoskins, Martin
NU: Maric, Perry...Hoskins, Martin, Harris   (agree, maybe would take Anderson over Perry)
ISU: Taylor, Johnson...Hoskins, Martin, Harris (Hubalek is tempting)

[BMWJhawk]

Kietzman always does this.  He sets his expectations for K-State relatively low, so when they fail like they did last night, he can blame it on talent.  Funny how he isn't so kind when it comes to ku in football. 

[WildCatzPhreak]

ku has about the same talent as KSU in football.  Maybe slightly less, but only slightly.  This is not the same scenario in basketball.

[catzacker]

Kietzman always does this.  He sets his expectations for K-State relatively low, so when they fail like they did last night, he can blame it on talent.  Funny how he isn't so kind when it comes to ku in football. 

KK was is just as "kind" to Mangino as he was to Wooly, only Wooly didn't get put on probation.  And this year in ku football was a disappointment, with your schedule and with the Big 12's leading rusher in your coach's 6th year.  But I do agree with your second sentence as it relates to KSU BBall this year, but talent, or a lack thereof, is an excuse that most teams outside ku, UT, A&M, and OSU can use.  Realistically, KSU has no business in the top 4 in the conference given their roster.   I don't know if we will, but IF KSU finishes in the to 4, a lot of credit should go to Huggins.

[sonofdaxjones]

Kietzman always does this.  He sets his expectations for K-State relatively low, so when they fail like they did last night, he can blame it on talent.  Funny how he isn't so kind when it comes to ku in football. 

Mangino has been at ku for Five years, and has an 11-29 conference record.  That pretty much speaks for itself.  In 3 of his 5 years he's been able to skip playing UT and OU totally, and in 4 of those 5 years the Big 12 North has been weak to extremely weak.  

Imagine being at a school for 5 years and in 3 of those 5 you never have to face either one of the two most powerful teams in the conference.   That's like getting to skip ku and Texas totally in basketball during a season.

[KSt8er]

why no love for Akeems defensive ability?  I'd take him before any other on our team most likely.

[greasd up deaf guy]

UT:  That skinny guy...his name escapes me at the moment.

Some of your best work, Rusty.

[swish1]

why no love for Akeems defensive ability?  I'd take him before any other on our team most likely.

id rather have a guy who can dribble

[sys]

ksu beats isu, cu, mu, and baylor in the best player category.  i love that isu freshman too, but you´re insane if you think roby is better than martin.  or better than hoskins.  hell he may be worse than harris.

hannah has never impressed me.  and bu´s guards are ridiculously overrated.  rogers might end up being a better player, but you would have to take hoskins and martin over him right now.



we haven´t played ou yet, but you could make an argument either way with them.  carter and longar have been good for them this year.

[Joker]

why no love for Akeems defensive ability?  I'd take him before any other on our team most likely.

id rather have a guy who can dribble

You mean they don't fill the ball with helium? 

[michigancat]

ksu beats isu, cu, mu, and baylor in the best player category.  i love that isu freshman too, but you´re insane if you think roby is better than martin.  or better than hoskins.  hell he may be worse than harris.

You're insane.  Roby is a talent playing for an unbelieveably crappy coach.

I'd take Hannah over anyone on our team.

You're probably right about Baylor, just because they all suck at defense.

[sys]

roby is perhaps the most overrated player to ever play in the big 12.  he isn´t even the best player on his own team.  he isn´t just not good, he is bad.

look at these stats and try to make an argument that he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as martin.

http://kenpom.com/sr.php?team=Colorado&y=2007

lest you think it is just an effect of playing on a horrible team, read the comments on 2006 roby

http://www.kenpom.com/pdf/big12.pdf



hannah at least is arguable.  i like martin better, but you could make a decent case for hannah.

[michigancat]

roby is perhaps the most overrated player to ever play in the big 12.  he isn´t even the best player on his own team.  he isn´t just not good, he is bad.

look at these stats and try to make an argument that he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as martin.

http://kenpom.com/sr.php?team=Colorado&y=2007

lest you think it is just an effect of playing on a horrible team, read the comments on 2006 roby

http://www.kenpom.com/pdf/big12.pdf



hannah at least is arguable.  i like martin better, but you could make a decent case for hannah.

Pomeroy says, "Roby would have been a nice 2nd scoring option on a Top 25 team", which is basically what Martin is this year.  Roby can take over a game by himself...Martin is basically nothing without a teammate setting him up.

[sys]

Pomeroy says, "Roby would have been a nice 2nd scoring option on a Top 25 team", which is basically what Martin is this year.  Roby can take over a game by himself...Martin is basically nothing without a teammate setting him up.

did you even open the stats?  those comments were about 2006 roby.  2006 roby would have been a decent 2nd option on a decent team.  2007 roby isn´t a decent option on a jr high team.  there is no possible way to defend his performance.

martin is ksu´s first option.  the offense runs through hoskins (because our point guards are assistless turnover machines), but martin is the 1st scoring option.

[michigancat]

Pomeroy says, "Roby would have been a nice 2nd scoring option on a Top 25 team", which is basically what Martin is this year.  Roby can take over a game by himself...Martin is basically nothing without a teammate setting him up.

did you even open the stats?  those comments were about 2006 roby.  2006 roby would have been a decent 2nd option on a decent team.  2007 roby isn´t a decent option on a jr high team.  there is no possible way to defend his performance.

If you just look at Pomeroy's offensive ratings, Matt Lawrence is better than Martin or Roby.  Heck, he's better than everyone at Texas (Durant included). Do you really believe that to be the case?

martin is ksu´s first option.  the offense runs through hoskins (because our point guards are assistless turnover machines), but martin is the 1st scoring option.

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "1st scoring option".

[sys]

i like lawrence, so don´t interpret this as an attack on him, but no obviously he isn´t that good.  you have to look at the off. rating in conjunction w. the %poss and %shots (as well as other categories).  anyone can be efficient by only taking shots when the defense ignores them.  lawrence is a good example of a player who is effective because he understands his limitations.

1st scoring option = player who takes the most shots.  i assume that any player that does so, does so because his coach wants him to.

[michigancat]

i like lawrence, so don´t interpret this as an attack on him, but no obviously he isn´t that good.  you have to look at the off. rating in conjunction w. the %poss and %shots (as well as other categories).  anyone can be efficient by only taking shots when the defense ignores them.  lawrence is a good example of a player who is effective because he understands his limitations.

I think you can say the same about Martin.

1st scoring option = player who takes the most shots.  i assume that any player that does so, does so because his coach wants him to.

Hoskins has taken the most shots in conference games.

[sys]

I think you can say the same about Martin.

in a positive context, perhaps so.  martin seems to have some idea of what is a good shot for him and what isn´t.  but in a negative context no.  martin has taken 31% of the shots during his time on the floor.  which is significanty different that either the default of 20% or lawrence´s 19%.

Hoskins has taken the most shots in conference games.

unfortunately, pomeroy doesn´t provide conference only stats.  martin and hoskins are nearly co-1st options season-long, but you can see that martin really is the 1st option when he is in (%shots), while hoskins has played a few more minutes (%poss).

[michigancat]

I think you can say the same about Martin.

in a positive context, perhaps so.  martin seems to have some idea of what is a good shot for him and what isn´t.  but in a negative context no.  martin has taken 31% of the shots during his time on the floor.  which is significanty different that either the default of 20% or lawrence´s 19%.

Hoskins has taken the most shots in conference games.

unfortunately, pomeroy doesn´t provide conference only stats.  martin and hoskins are nearly co-1st options season-long, but you can see that martin really is the 1st option when he is in (%shots), while hoskins has played a few more minutes (%poss).

I guess for all practical purposes, Martin and Hoskins are 1a and 1b options.

[sys]

I guess for all practical purposes, Martin and Hoskins are 1a and 1b options.

pretty much.  it is scary when neither is in the game.

[ksu_FAN]

I think you can say the same about Martin.

in a positive context, perhaps so.  martin seems to have some idea of what is a good shot for him and what isn´t.  but in a negative context no.  martin has taken 31% of the shots during his time on the floor.  which is significanty different that either the default of 20% or lawrence´s 19%.

Hoskins has taken the most shots in conference games.

unfortunately, pomeroy doesn´t provide conference only stats.  martin and hoskins are nearly co-1st options season-long, but you can see that martin really is the 1st option when he is in (%shots), while hoskins has played a few more minutes (%poss).

I guess for all practical purposes, Martin and Hoskins are 1a and 1b options.

I think that's what we've come to, and I'm not so sure Martin isn't beginning to become the clear 1 down the stretch.  Defenses are taking away Hoskins game which is going to leave more opening for Martin (and Harris) and those guys have to make shots.  Teams are trying to take away any low blockI scoring from us now, and we've got to come up with a counter.  I think that's part of why Maybank might be playing more as well b/c he gives us another guy to attack off the bounce, and he did that several times vs NU, he just didn't finish several that we really needed.