Is this team really better than last year's?

[michigancat]

I'm starting to think so, but I can't figure out why.


We replaced Justin Williams and Massey with Diarra, Afeli, and Hoskins.

We replaced Fred Peete with Mario Taybron and Akeem Wright.

IMO, the replacements are all worse than the people they replaced.

The tempo is essentially the same.

Martin is the only returning player that has shown any improvement.




Is it just that the league is down?

Is the defense that much better this year?

Did scrapping the triangle change things?

Ben "the Legend" Kelso?

Better luck?

Has the depth at the 2/3 position helped us that much?

Or, (since the ku win was canceled out by the NU loss), have we still not accomplished anything we didn't last year?


Anyone?

[Houstoncat93]

At this point in the season I don't really think we've done much different than past Wooly teams have but there are a few reasons for optimism too.  We won a lot of OOC games against weak teams like normal.. We have trouble winning on the road (maybe the ku game is a sign we've turned that around).  We've had an embarassing loss (nubb).  We usually have one major upset (ala Texas, maybe the ku game was our upset special this year )  If we go to CU and win then we will have back to back road conference wins and then I'll start to believe that this team is better than last years.  Until then I think the jury is still out.

[mjrod]

The first thing is this... they have to believe in themselves first and play like a team.  The last three wins have been very team oriented.   They play like they can each help themselves win.   I see aspects of that much more in the last three games than I have since Wooly got here.   Why it's now happening is probably more because we are somewhat younger and more players have been in the system.

Also, 12,000 fans at the Fred are just what this team needs.

[fatty fat fat]

Is this team really better than last year's? Anyone?

Yes, and saying the ku game doesn't count because the NU game cancels it out is dumb. The ku win was f-ing huge.

[michigancat]

Is this team really better than last year's? Anyone?

Yes, and saying the ku game doesn't count because the NU game cancels it out is dumb. The ku win was f-ing huge.

If everyone can use the ku win to cancel out the NU loss, I am allowed to do just the opposite.

When you look at the games won/lost last season, we lost a home game we didn't (NU), won a road game we didn't (ku), and picked up aTm at home.   Assuming we pick up a road win at Baylor and the rest of the season plays out like last year, we finish 7-9 with a six-game losing streak.  IMO, that's very possible.  (The late schedule is TOUGH).

[mjrod]

It needs to be noted that the ku win doesn't cancel out anything.   The ku win was the first in a series of win where the team came together.

Every year, Wooly has had a crap game.  NU was that game.  What it appears to have been is a catalyst for a team that has found it's identity.   The last three games show KSU has now the desire and ability to close their games.  ATM was a close game when it didn't need to be, but against a better Mizzou team, KSU learned how to hold onto a good lead.

We're getting better, but we have more work.  I'd like to think we could be the surprise team in the Big 12 but a few road wins and losing no more at home would guarantee that for us.

[michigancat]

Every year, Wooly has had a crap game. 

Change that to a couple crap games and I'm almost with you.

[mjrod]

No, we have one crap game when we are blown out when we shouldn't be.

He's had many bad games where players made stupid decisions that cost us games.

Playing down to our competition has been more the norm that playing up to our competition.   However, I see that changing now that Wooly has some kids that have stayed in the system and are making it work.

[michigancat]

No, we have one crap game when we are blown out when we shouldn't be.

He's had many bad games where players made stupid decisions that cost us games.

Playing down to our competition has been more the norm that playing up to our competition.   However, I see that changing now that Wooly has some kids that have stayed in the system and are making it work.

05-06:  UNI didn't blow us out, but that should have been a win.  NU
04-05:  Rutgers (last in the Big East) won by 10 in Manhattan.  Colorado (11th in the Big XII) won by 10 in Manhattan.
03-04:  UMKC (duh), ISU in the tourney, 16-14 Mizzou won in Manhattan big
02-03:  UWGB, Northwestern, Baylor won by 10 in Manhattan, and I think the "Pasco Fiasco" deserves to be in the "crap game" category.
01-02:  Eastern Carolina, Wichita State at home

[mjrod]

No, we have one crap game when we are blown out when we shouldn't be.

He's had many bad games where players made stupid decisions that cost us games.

Playing down to our competition has been more the norm that playing up to our competition.   However, I see that changing now that Wooly has some kids that have stayed in the system and are making it work.

05-06:  UNI didn't blow us out, but that should have been a win.  NU
04-05:  Rutgers (last in the Big East) won by 10 in Manhattan.  Colorado (11th in the Big XII) won by 10 in Manhattan.
03-04:  UMKC (duh), ISU in the tourney, 16-14 Mizzou won in Manhattan big
02-03:  UWGB, Northwestern, Baylor won by 10 in Manhattan, and I think the "Pasco Fiasco" deserves to be in the "crap game" category.
01-02:  Eastern Carolina, Wichita State at home

We'll have to have  difference of opinion.   crap games to me = blowouts to teams where there should have been no way we lost.

Bad games to me are games we could win, but for some reason or another, we manage to give it away.

[fatty fat fat]

We haven't beaten ku since 1994.

We haven't won 3 straight conference games since 1996.

We've done 2 things of significance, that I don't think we accomplished at all (things of significance) in wooly's 1st 5 years.

This team is different. Former teams would have lost to Mizzou saturday.

Stop. Your spin of the ku game was horrible. ku is 157-10 at home since 1994, and our team went into their house and beat them.

Lots of my criticism of Wooly dealt w/his lack of big-time wins since his 2nd year. He got one last saturday. It's a shame you cannot enjoy it.

[michigancat]

No, we have one crap game when we are blown out when we shouldn't be.

He's had many bad games where players made stupid decisions that cost us games.

Playing down to our competition has been more the norm that playing up to our competition.   However, I see that changing now that Wooly has some kids that have stayed in the system and are making it work.

05-06:  UNI didn't blow us out, but that should have been a win.  NU
04-05:  Rutgers (last in the Big East) won by 10 in Manhattan.  Colorado (11th in the Big XII) won by 10 in Manhattan.
03-04:  UMKC (duh), ISU in the tourney, 16-14 Mizzou won in Manhattan big
02-03:  UWGB, Northwestern, Baylor won by 10 in Manhattan, and I think the "Pasco Fiasco" deserves to be in the "crap game" category.
01-02:  Eastern Carolina, Wichita State at home

We'll have to have  difference of opinion.   crap games to me = blowouts to teams where there should have been no way we lost.

Bad games to me are games we could win, but for some reason or another, we manage to give it away.

In that case, there weren't any crap games last year, in 02-03, 01-02, or 00-01.

[fatty fat fat]

And crap games happen to everytime, but it is the good teams that cancel them out w/"big time wins"

And hopefully we did that w/the win @ku.

[Super PurpleCat]

Yes, it is.  Next topic.   

[mjrod]

Rusty,

OK, I get what you're saying more, and so I'll adopt your perspective even more.

The thing is, Wooly's teams are not consistent.   We've had big wins and crapty games throughout any season.

I just hope this team has finally figured it out.   Beating ku, ATM and Mizzou were done, finally, playing good basketball.   I just hope they continue to grow with it.

[michigancat]

We haven't beaten ku since 1994.

We haven't won 3 straight conference games since 1996.

We've done 2 things of significance, that I don't think we accomplished at all (things of significance) in wooly's 1st 5 years.

This team is different. Former teams would have lost to Mizzou saturday.

Stop. Your spin of the ku game was horrible. ku is 157-10 at home since 1994, and our team went into their house and beat them.

Lots of my criticism of Wooly dealt w/his lack of big-time wins since his 2nd year. He got one last saturday. It's a shame you cannot enjoy it.

Top-ten UT wasn't a big win?

And crap games happen to everytime, but it is the good teams that cancel them out w/"big time wins"

And hopefully we did that w/the win @ku.

The ku win was huge.  Much like Washington State's win at #11 Arizona last year was huge.


If we're canceling out crap wins with big wins, we're +1 from last year.  (aTm)  Otherwise, we're right on track for last year's record.

Maybe this team truly has found its way, and Wooldridge finally figured out to coach.  If he stays and manages to get some top-100 HS talent to sign early for the 2007 class, I'm back to being a Woolite.  Until then, he's a worse coach than Ricardo Patton to me.  The last six conference games are huge for Jim.

[sys]

i think the team is very slightly better.  with improvements being '06 hughes over '05 hughes and '06 martin over injured, passive '05 martin.  i also think wright is not a very dramatic dropoff from peete.  actually a better defender, and in the last 5-6 games has been decent offensively as well.  finally consider that williams gave ksu little till the last 8 games or so last year - and ksu was pretty good when williams was playing well.

at any rate - just a very little bit better.  much more important is that the conference is down.

[fatty fat fat]

http://mb21.scout.com/fkansasstatefrm4.showMessage?topicID=4370.topic


ughhh. Talk about a phog.net "hoops board" type post

[michigancat]

http://mb21.scout.com/fkansasstatefrm4.showMessage?topicID=4370.topic


ughhh. Talk about a phog.net "hoops board" type post

I am the dark side.

[ksu_FAN]

This team is better in two major ways; chemistry and defense. 

The defensive numbers are obvious and measurable.  I've said all year this is Wooly's best defensive team and there have been few games where they haven't backed that up.  Probably our worst half of defense of the year was the first half in Dekalb. 

Chemistry is harder to measure, but when your best player is your most unselfish player, it makes it easier for chemistry to flourish. 

The surprise has been rebounding.  The key is we rebound from all positions, and our size on the perimeter helps us as well. 

The key to continue winning will be on the offensive end.  I think our defense will be there night in and night out.  We've seen what our offense looks like when we are selfish and ineffiecient and we've seen what we can do when we truly play together.  The scoring in the paint is pretty amazing, especially considering our size, when we run our offense well.  We are an inside-out threat without a true 15 PPG scorer on the low block.  I think we can continue to be if we keep playing like we have been the last 2 and a half games. 

[michigancat]

This team is better in two major ways; chemistry and defense. 

The defensive numbers are obvious and measurable.  I've said all year this is Wooly's best defensive team and there have been few games where they haven't backed that up.  Probably our worst half of defense of the year was the first half in Dekalb. 

Chemistry is harder to measure, but when your best player is your most unselfish player, it makes it easier for chemistry to flourish. 

The surprise has been rebounding.  The key is we rebound from all positions, and our size on the perimeter helps us as well. 

The key to continue winning will be on the offensive end.  I think our defense will be there night in and night out.  We've seen what our offense looks like when we are selfish and ineffiecient and we've seen what we can do when we truly play together.  The scoring in the paint is pretty amazing, especially considering our size, when we run our offense well.  We are an inside-out threat without a true 15 PPG scorer on the low block.  I think we can continue to be if we keep playing like we have been the last 2 and a half games. 

Why is the defense better?  Everyone acts like Massey was this huge liability on interior defense, but I don't think Diarra or Hughes are remarkably better.  Akeem Wright isn't that much better than Fred Peete.  Is it just experience?

I don't agree with the chemistry take.  I think too much is made of chemistry in sports in general.  Fred Peete might have had a "mentor" telling him he needed to play point or whatever, but he didn't play selfishly.  Marques Hayden was a distraction, but I don't think he was responsible for the six-game losing streak.

I really can't figure this team out.  Like I said, the last six games will be the real test.  Rough, rough schedule to close out conference play.

[ksu_FAN]

This defense is better b/c we're deeper overall and more athletic.  Akeem Wright is a better defender than Peete b/c he's better with his feet and he is a much longer player.  The combo of Martin and Diarra or Hughes is better defending in the paint b/c they are much better at getting position and forcing tough shots, even from 5 feet.  Massey took plays off on defense and wasn't as good as Diarra at establishing position early in a possession above the block.  Stewart and Harris have both improved on the defensive end.  Our biggest defensive liability right now his Hoskins, but he is improving.  He has some Massey tendancies of his offensive struggled on defense carrying over to the defensive end.  Then you have Allen, Taybron, and Thomas who you can bring off the bench to give you some minutes. 

Martin isn't as vocal of a leader as Massey, but IMO he's a better leader.  He is consistent and completely bought into what Coach is doing on both ends of the floor and I don't know that Massey or Peete (while both were good leaders) were completely bought in all the time last year.  We have guys doing a much better job accepting their roles and playing within themselves.  The only real struggle I see is Harris trying to find his game and adjusting to his struggles.  It was obvious he was trying to force his way out of his slump b/c we were playing Missouri and he can't do that. 

I understand your caution and it may be warranted, but I also see no reason not to be a little excited about the basketball we saw the last week.

[michigancat]

I never thought of Massey as "not buying in".  I always thought he was a great leader, unselfish player, and bought in 100%.  I would agree that Martin is a better leader because he doesn't play with quite as much emotion, but I don't think that is having much of an effect on the court.

Defense is the key.

[ksu_FAN]

Massey "not buying in" occured more on the defensive end.  Even last year there were games where Wooly lit into JM for defensive breakdowns.  He also had games where he would force things on the offensive end.  Occasionally CM will force a three (he's usually open though, just early in a possession), but that's about it.  I by no means am saying Massey was an overly selfish player, and even coach said he's one of the hardest working players he's ever had, but CM is a much more disciplined player (and our most disciplined player outside maybe Sky) both offensively and defensively and you can discount what that does for a team when he's also your best player.  That may seem like a small difference, but I think its bigger than that. 

I would go so far to say that CM is a key factor in Wooly being able to pull this team together after the NU disaster, and I'm not so sure that would've happened last year.

[michigancat]

I wish Martin would "force" more shots.

I'd like to see him get some freedom to showcase some NBA-type one-on-one skills a few times a game.  IMO, everytime there's 10 seconds or less on the shot clock, they should run a clearout for Cartier and let him do his thing.  Not only would it be good for Cartier impressing the NBA scouts, it would be good for K-State to have a go-to guy in "last shot" situations with the game on the line.  One of JW's biggest problems in close games is that his players seem clueless if the play he's drawn up doesn't work perfectly.  A little "improvisation" practice in games would be good.

[ksu_FAN]

Both good points.  I liked that Cartier started the game vs MU attacking, even if he got two charges (one was bogus).  He has the ability to take defenders off the dribble and can hit a pull up jumper, he doesn't do it very often.  He probably attacked more vs MU than he has all season though.

[michigancat]

I agree.  Another encouraging sign.  I'd like to see more, however.

[JavaCat]

Rusty, what was your major?

[michigancat]

ME

[JavaCat]

Probably didn't take any kind of behavior classes then unless you took some psychology course for the general education requirements. You don't think there's any kind of "chemistry" in a team?