Dan Hawkins to Colorado as

[WildCatzPhreak]

tcu is currently ranked #43 in the Rivals ratings, KSU is #57.  You would to think that a 1 loss, BCS bowl season vs. a 6 loss, no bowl season would mean more than 14 spots in the rankings...

You're kind of missing the point here.  I bolded it for you.

[JTKSU]

tcu is currently ranked #43 in the Rivals ratings, KSU is #57.  You would to think that a 1 loss, BCS bowl season vs. a 6 loss, no bowl season would mean more than 14 spots in the rankings...

You're kind of missing the point here.  I bolded it for you.

The post I replied to was concerning recruiting, so I got that point just fine, thanks though.  Along your point, how many you wins do think we would have had this year with their schedule?  tcu is a good team and G Patt is a very good coach, but thinking he would come in and do a much better job than Snyder is pretty silly.  Nobody is really bitching about the Xs and Os from this staff, they're bitching about our poor recruiting, past and present.  I got news for you: G Patt has never recruited well, at a school located in the freaking DFW.

Virgina
Texas State   
Clemson    
SMU
Air Force     
Colorado State
BYU     
UNLV
San Diego State
Utah     
Wyoming 
New Mexico     
Boise State    

[joelcat]

This thread is like a massive car-wreck on Seth Child. I wish I could stop reading, but it's so bad, I just can't.
 

[michigancat]

The post I replied to was concerning recruiting, so I got that point just fine, thanks though.  Along your point, how many you wins do think we would have had this year with their schedule?  tcu is a good team and G Patt is a very good coach, but thinking he would come in and do a much better job than Snyder is pretty silly.  Nobody is really bitching about the Xs and Os from this staff, they're bitching about our poor recruiting, past and present.  I got news for you: G Patt has never recruited well, at a school located in the freaking DFW.   

He has been a great recruiter for the level he is at. 

This year, according to your precious rivals team rankings, he has the 3rd best non-BCS class and best star average of that group. 

Last year he had the #2 non-BCS recruiting class (highest average stars). 

2008 wasn't a great year, but again in 2007 he had the best star average among non-BCS schools.

His 2006 class was the third best among non-BCS, and again, had the highest star average.


How is that not recruiting well?

[steve dave]

tcu is currently ranked #43 in the Rivals ratings, KSU is #57.  You would to think that a 1 loss, BCS bowl season vs. a 6 loss, no bowl season would mean more than 14 spots in the rankings...

You're kind of missing the point here.  I bolded it for you.

The post I replied to was concerning recruiting, so I got that point just fine, thanks though.  Along your point, how many you wins do think we would have had this year with their schedule?  tcu is a good team and G Patt is a very good coach, but thinking he would come in and do a much better job than Snyder is pretty silly.  Nobody is really bitching about the Xs and Os from this staff, they're bitching about our poor recruiting, past and present.  I got news for you: G Patt has never recruited well, at a school located in the freaking DFW.

Virgina
Texas State   
Clemson    
SMU
Air Force     
Colorado State
BYU     
UNLV
San Diego State
Utah     
Wyoming 
New Mexico     
Boise State    

This year's KSU team/staff goes 5-8 against that schedule

[JTKSU]

The post I replied to was concerning recruiting, so I got that point just fine, thanks though.  Along your point, how many you wins do think we would have had this year with their schedule?  tcu is a good team and G Patt is a very good coach, but thinking he would come in and do a much better job than Snyder is pretty silly.  Nobody is really bitching about the Xs and Os from this staff, they're bitching about our poor recruiting, past and present.  I got news for you: G Patt has never recruited well, at a school located in the freaking DFW.   

He has been a great recruiter for the level he is at.  

This year, according to your precious rivals team rankings, he has the 3rd best non-BCS class and best star average of that group.  

Last year he had the #2 non-BCS recruiting class (highest average stars).  

2008 wasn't a great year, but again in 2007 he had the best star average among non-BCS schools.

His 2006 class was the third best among non-BCS, and again, had the highest star average.


How is that not recruiting well?

Spin it however it suits you.  But over the last 6 years, tcu's classes have avg'd 2.52 stars and had an average team ranking of #65.  I would imagine that G Patt and his staff would continue to recruit Texas heavily if he was to become the HC at KSU.  What players that he might have missed out on at tcu would he be able to convince to sign with KSU?  What players would have signed with him at tcu that would not sign with KSU?  Keep in mind that, over the same time period, our recruiting classes have avg'd 2.72 stars and avg'd a #42 national ranking.  I think we would all agree that we do not have enough talent to really be anything more than a mediocre (at best) Big 12 team.  Do you really think that G Patt would be able to recruit consistent top 30 classes at KSU?  I personally think you need that type of talent to really be any sort of contender in the Big 12.  And I really like how you incorporated avg star ratings in your post, as I am fairly certain you have discredited this practice in previous posts concerning KSU's current recruiting class.  And Rival's rankings are certainly not "precious" to me, but it's really about the only unbiased way to look at recruiting over a several year long time period.

*edit- 

 

recruiting rankings are a pretty good indicator of success.

[michigancat]

Spin it however it suits you.  But over the last 6 years, tcu's classes have avg'd 2.52 stars and had an average team ranking of #65.  I would imagine that G Patt and his staff would continue to recruit Texas heavily if he was to become the HC at KSU.  What players that he might have missed out on at tcu would he be able to convince to sign with KSU?  What players would have signed with him at tcu that would not sign with KSU?  Keep in mind that, over the same time period, our recruiting classes have avg'd 2.72 stars and avg'd a #42 national ranking.  I think we would all agree that we do not have enough talent to really be anything more than a mediocre (at best) Big 12 team.  Do you really think that G Patt would be able to recruit consistent top 30 classes at KSU?  I personally think you need that type of talent to really be any sort of contender in the Big 12.  And I really like how you incorporated avg star ratings in your post, as I am fairly certain you have discredited this practice in previous posts concerning KSU's current recruiting class.  And Rival's rankings are certainly not "precious" to me, but it's really about the only unbiased way to look at recruiting over a several year long time period.

LMAO, he coaches in the MOUNTAIN WEST.  NO ONE RECRUITS BETTER AT HIS LEVEL THAN HE DOES.  Quit comparing his classes to KSU - we are more attractive to recruits than tcu.

Labelling Patterson a sh*tty recruiter because he isn't outrecruiting everyone in the BCS at a MOUNTAIN WEST SCHOOL goes beyond retarded.  Even with his sh*tty conference/TV deal, he wins battles with BCS schools.  At a BCS school, he would win even more.  Even at piddly poor lil old KSU.

And I have never discounted "average stars". 

[catzacker]

what was Tressell's average star rankings before he got to tOSU?  Turner Gill recruited at NU..why didn't that transfer over to buffalo? What about Pinkel's average recruiting rankings at Toledo before he got to MU?

[JTKSU]

what was Tressell's average star rankings before he got to tOSU?  Turner Gill recruited at NU..why didn't that transfer over to buffalo? What about Pinkel's average recruiting rankings at Toledo before he got to MU?

Youngstown State is a FCS program.  Turner Gill recruited to freaking Nebraska.  It's very possible that he simply isn't that great of a recruiter, I guess we'll see over the next few years at uk.  Toledo is not located smack dab in the middle of perhaps the most fertile recruiting grounds on the country.  Yeah, there is some talent in Ohio, but not like there is in Texas.  Yeah, if G Patt landed at an Arkansas, TTU, Ole Miss, etc he probably would start signing top 20s consistently.  I just think we would need a group of extraordinary recruiters as assistants with G Patt to really get our recruiting where it needs to be.  Dude's a great coach and I would be happy with him here.  But maybe we might need to go with a coordinator from a name school that has proven to be a outstanding recruiter?

[catzacker]

But maybe we might need to go with a coordinator from a name school that has proven to be a outstanding recruiter?

If you're talking about Venzy, I agree.  But I wouldn't dismiss Gary and his staff's ability to evaluate talent because they've only done it (successfully) at a "mid major" level.  I think it would translate. 

[michigancat]

what was Tressell's average star rankings before he got to tOSU?  Turner Gill recruited at NU..why didn't that transfer over to buffalo? What about Pinkel's average recruiting rankings at Toledo before he got to MU?

Youngstown State is a FCS program.  Turner Gill recruited to freaking Nebraska.  It's very possible that he simply isn't that great of a recruiter, I guess we'll see over the next few years at uk.  Toledo is not located smack dab in the middle of perhaps the most fertile recruiting grounds on the country.  Yeah, there is some talent in Ohio, but not like there is in Texas.  Yeah, if G Patt landed at an Arkansas, TTU, Ole Miss, etc he probably would start signing top 20s consistently.  I just think we would need a group of extraordinary recruiters as assistants with G Patt to really get our recruiting where it needs to be.  Dude's a great coach and I would be happy with him here.  But maybe we might need to go with a coordinator from a name school that has proven to be a outstanding recruiter?

I don't understand how this post meshes with your blind Snyder love.  Snyder's recruiting has been garbage for quite a while.

I, too, would have no issues with Venzy.  But many say he isn't a proven recruiter because he recruits to OU, (which is stupid).

[JTKSU]

But maybe we might need to go with a coordinator from a name school that has proven to be a outstanding recruiter?

If you're talking about Venzy, I agree.  But I wouldn't dismiss Gary and his staff's ability to evaluate talent because they've only done it (successfully) at a "mid major" level.  I think it would translate. 

I'm not really sure which coordinator would be best, but Venzy is certainly on the short list.  Obviously Gary and his staff can identify talent at a very high level but we all know that identifying talent and closing the deal in Manhattan are not the same thing.  We were/are listed with many high level recruits but we haven't been able to close on near enough of them lately.  Maybe Gary would be able to lure some hot young OC or DC from another BCS program to assist with the recruiting?  (I imagine the current tcu DC would take over as HC after Gary leaves and I'm not all that high on their OC, though he did a really nice job this year.)

[JTKSU]

what was Tressell's average star rankings before he got to tOSU?  Turner Gill recruited at NU..why didn't that transfer over to buffalo? What about Pinkel's average recruiting rankings at Toledo before he got to MU?

Youngstown State is a FCS program.  Turner Gill recruited to freaking Nebraska.  It's very possible that he simply isn't that great of a recruiter, I guess we'll see over the next few years at uk.  Toledo is not located smack dab in the middle of perhaps the most fertile recruiting grounds on the country.  Yeah, there is some talent in Ohio, but not like there is in Texas.  Yeah, if G Patt landed at an Arkansas, TTU, Ole Miss, etc he probably would start signing top 20s consistently.  I just think we would need a group of extraordinary recruiters as assistants with G Patt to really get our recruiting where it needs to be.  Dude's a great coach and I would be happy with him here.  But maybe we might need to go with a coordinator from a name school that has proven to be a outstanding recruiter?

I don't understand how this post meshes with your blind Snyder love.  Snyder's recruiting has been garbage for quite a while.

I, too, would have no issues with Venzy.  But many say he isn't a proven recruiter because he recruits to OU, (which is stupid).

I'm not happy with our recent recruiting either, it certainly needs to improve.  I just think that we will do it gradually.  It's not easy to recruit to MHK, even moreso after our recent history of suckiness.   Success on the field tends to lead to improved success on the recruiting trail.  And it's not that I believe Snyder is the best possible coach for us anymore.  I just believe that he is one of the best coaches ever and it irritates me when people attempt to discredit his coaching ability.  Interestingly, Snyder's last three completed classes have avg'd 2.73 stars and a national ranking of #48, numbers Patterson has only matched or beaten once in his time at tcu.

[BeaumontCat1%]

Patterson just got beat by Boise freaking State in the biggest game of his career, gmafb.  Mountain West is perfect for him, and he for it.

[JTKSU]

Patterson just got beat by Boise freaking State in the biggest game of his career, gmafb.  Mountain West is perfect for him, and he for it.

Dude, Boise is pretty freaking good.  They demolished the Pac 10 champs this year and you can't discredit what they did to OU the last time they were in the Fiesta Bowl.  Yeah, tcu's kids were way too amped up for the game, but it's pretty difficult to totally prepare a team for a situation they have never been in before.  G Patt's one hell of a coach.  Hate to see what he would do at a school like OU...

[steve dave]

Patterson just got beat by Boise freaking State in the biggest game of his career, gmafb.  Mountain West is perfect for him, and he for it.

Bill Snyder just got beat by Louisiana Lafayette  

[BeaumontCat1%]

Patterson just got beat by Boise freaking State in the biggest game of his career, gmafb.  Mountain West is perfect for him, and he for it.

Bill Snyder just got beat by Louisiana Lafayette  

Your point?  I didn't mention Bill Snyder.  Are Patterson and Snyder the only options?

[JTKSU]

what was Tressell's average star rankings before he got to tOSU?  Turner Gill recruited at NU..why didn't that transfer over to buffalo? What about Pinkel's average recruiting rankings at Toledo before he got to MU?

Another angle to help solidify your point is Urban Meyer at Utah.  He didn't recruit for crap there but he's been unbelievable at UF.  Course, recruiting to Gainesville >>>>>>>>Manhattan, but maybe G Patt could also find some sort of comparable success with the Cats.   Maybe I'm warming up a bit to the idea...   

[BeaumontCat1%]

Another angle to help solidify your point is Urban Meyer at Utah.  He didn't recruit for crap there but he's been unbelievable at UF.  Course, recruiting to Gainesville >>>>>>>>Manhattan, but maybe G Patt could also find some sort of comparable success with the Cats.   Maybe I'm warming up a bit to the idea...   

Pretty far stretch to infer Patterson's potential success from what Urban Meyer has done.  One is a western Kansas turd, and the other is a complete bad ass with charisma oozing from every pore.

[steve dave]

Pretty far stretch to infer Patterson's potential success from what Urban Meyer has done.  One is a western Kansas turd, and the other is a complete bad ass with charisma oozing from every pore.

LOL, nicely done

[ksubaby21!]

ppl need to understand that the recruiting rankings dont mean squat really

[michigancat]

And it's not that I believe Snyder is the best possible coach for us anymore.  I just believe that he is one of the best coaches ever and it irritates me when people attempt to discredit his coaching ability.

None of Snyder's critics are descrediting his "coaching ability".  It's just that his "coaching ability" is irrelevant because he has a sh*tty staff full of sh*tty recruiters and therefore has sh*tty recruiting classes and sh*tty teams.

Interestingly, Snyder's last three completed classes have avg'd 2.73 stars and a national ranking of #48, numbers Patterson has only matched or beaten once in his time at tcu.

what did I tell you about comparing tcu recruiting to KSU recruiting?  It's beyond idiotic.  Compare apples to apples.

[LesMiserables]

Even a "Western Kansas Turd" can recruit pretty decent Texas talent to an attractive school located in DFW.  Not so sure that a somewhat quirky personality like him could go out and get higher rated talent to come to Manhattan.  He probably couldn't even get some of the Texas kids he's getting now. 
Right now he's located smack dab in the middle of the second richest recruiting base in the country primarily competing with schools located in states with more lots more cows than people and he's making almost as much money as Snyder.  If he gives up that sweet gig, it surely will be to go somewhere with more recruiting advantages and  more money than KSU can offer.

[michigancat]

Even a "Western Kansas Turd" can recruit pretty decent Texas talent to an attractive school located in DFW.  He probably couldn't even get some of the Texas kids he's getting now. Right now he's located smack dab in the middle of the second richest recruiting base in the country primarily competing with schools located in states with more lots more cows than people and he's making almost as much money as Snyder.

If it's so effing easy, why haven't SMU or UNT done anything remotely comparable to tcu?  Or Rice, Houston, or Central Florida?  He isn't the only non-BCS coach in fertile recruiting ground, loser.

[JTKSU]

Even a "Western Kansas Turd" can recruit pretty decent Texas talent to an attractive school located in DFW.  Not so sure that a somewhat quirky personality like him could go out and get higher rated talent to come to Manhattan.  He probably couldn't even get some of the Texas kids he's getting now. 
Right now he's located smack dab in the middle of the second richest recruiting base in the country primarily competing with schools located in states with more lots more cows than people and he's making almost as much money as Snyder.  If he gives up that sweet gig, it surely will be to go somewhere with more recruiting advantages and  more money than KSU can offer.

What state produces more D1 talent?  I guess maybe Florida, but just sheer population numbers say Texas would produce more...

[Fausto]

"Dan was just lucky enough to be the head man in charge when they started to have success...."

You must have missed the double-digit win seasons by Boise under Dirk Koetter in the late 90s.  Dan was lucky enough to take over from Koetter.

[KITNfury]

Even a "Western Kansas Turd" can recruit pretty decent Texas talent to an attractive school located in DFW.  Not so sure that a somewhat quirky personality like him could go out and get higher rated talent to come to Manhattan.  He probably couldn't even get some of the Texas kids he's getting now. 
Right now he's located smack dab in the middle of the second richest recruiting base in the country primarily competing with schools located in states with more lots more cows than people and he's making almost as much money as Snyder.  If he gives up that sweet gig, it surely will be to go somewhere with more recruiting advantages and  more money than KSU can offer.

You're a complete idiot if  you don't think he's already accepted a job here once.