Date: 25/08/25 - 12:32 PM   48060 Topics and 694399 Posts

Author Topic: KC Star: Gills salary  (Read 1971 times)

December 16, 2009, 03:33:51 PM
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vanro03

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Kansas and Turner Gill and justifying $2 million a year

There are reasons Kansas is paying Turner Gill $2 million a year to be its football coach. Some may be legitimate. None are backed by common sense.

Headed by Lew Perkins, ku's athletic department quintupled Gill's salary at Buffalo because it can, and also so it can brag about it.

There is little doubt that Gill -- who was reportedly making $400,000 at Buffalo -- would've jumped at the Kansas job for $1.5 million or less and given the exact same effort with the exact same enthusiasm. Instead, he gets an extra half-million or more -- that's real money in Lawrence -- so Perkins and ku can sit at the big boy table.

Perkins essentially walked into the car dealership, fell in love with a $50,000 Benz* and told the salesman, "Would you take $75,000 instead?"

The crazy part is that money in college sports runs in such illogical ways that this might actually be a smart move.

"There's no other market quite like college athletics," says Dan Fulks, director of the accounting program at Transylvania University in Lexington, Ky., and author of a 114-page NCAA report on Division I revenues and expenditures. "This doesn't even happen in pro sports."

Money flies in pro sports, of course, but in ways that are much more intuitive. Bidding wars are more logical. Nobody pays a coach or player extra money just for show.

But Fulks points to a sort of keeping-up-with-the-Joneses culture gone crazy in college sports, where commitment is measured by the millions of dollars, both in facilities construction and coaches' salaries.

Gill, who arrives with a 20-30 record coaching in the MAC, will cash a bigger paycheck than Bo Pelini, coach of the Big 12 North champion Cornhuskers. He makes more than Bill Snyder, Gary Patterson, Jim Leavitt, Chip Kelly, and a host of others who've won conference championships and coached in BCS bowls.

Kansas is paying Gill $2 million a year not because he's worth it -- he's not ... at least not yet -- but because it gives the school and its new coach a certain cache in places that matter.

It is an expensive but effective way of telling boosters and -- much more importantly -- recruits that Kansas is serious about football. The hope is that the extra half-million or so brings a return with more donations and better recruits attracted to a program perceived to be more serious based largely upon the head coach's salary.

"It's partly a matter of ego, and it's also partly a matter of recruiting," Fulks says. "Those two things combined are what drives an awful lot of spending. Texas is paying Mack Brown $5 million a year because supposedly is says something to recruits that, 'We're really committed to the sport.' That's what ku is doing."

This isn't particularly new, of course. Big money has driven college sports for years, driving a divide between academics and athletics at many schools. Texas' faculty council, for instance, this week deemed Brown's salary "unseemly and inappropriate."

But what is becoming more and more obvious is that schools' athletic departments are judging and judged as much on their most visible price tags as anything else. It's a status symbol, like a Hummer or Malibu beach house, except the benefit is either perceived or intangible.

Where else does this exist in sports, or life?

When the Chiefs hired Todd Haley and Scott Pioli, they paid him the lowest amount possible to still get the guys they wanted. Same thing with the Royals and Dayton Moore and Trey Hillman. Ditto for every other pro team out there, and the company you work for, and, for that matter, YOU when you shop online or look at buying a house or any other major purchase.

If paying Gill an extra half-million somehow boosts the football program's image and strength, it's worthwhile. Applications and donations typically jump after athletic success, perhaps most famously with Northwestern after its 1996 Rose Bowl run and Boston College after the Doug Flutie years.

Viewed through that lens, this is one giant stimulus package for both Gill's family and the entire athletic department. A move that looks at first like burning money has the chance to be a smart investment.

"The truth is if you put a cap of $250,000 per year on it, guys would still be lined around the block for these jobs," Fulks says. "(But) with the things you can't measure, if (Gill) wins and it brings in more applications and gives you better diversity and higher ACT or SAT scores to your student body, what's that worth to you?

"And if he's successful enough to move you from the Outback Bowl or whatever to a BCS bowl, then, yeah, he makes it up in a year."

Won't be long until Bill Self needs a raise, too.

Submitted by Sam Mellinger on December 16, 2009 - 10:16am.
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December 16, 2009, 03:43:53 PM
Reply #1

wiley03

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if they've got it, why not spend it right?

December 16, 2009, 03:48:14 PM
Reply #2

Pete

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if they've got it, why not spend it right?

Agreed.  Only loser programs complain about coaching costs. 

To ku I say:

 :clap:

December 16, 2009, 03:54:39 PM
Reply #3

MENSACat

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The problem is, in this economy, asking donors to give you $35M for your waffle iron club...when you are throwing away several million dollars over the life of this contract. Gill would've taken the ku job for $750K...no question.

December 16, 2009, 04:00:56 PM
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Legore

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if they've got it, why not spend it right?

Agreed.  Only loser programs complain about coaching costs. 

To ku I say:

 :clap:

If you have a big time coach pay him what he's worth because he'll bring many times more then that into your program in increased revenue.  But with Gill they're paying for a Mercedes and getting a Chevy.  Doesn't make any sense to me. 

December 16, 2009, 04:36:18 PM
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Wildcat Jack

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Or you can be K-State's braintrust and pay low-ball numbers to the Prince-tard and then secretly make long-term high dollar deals......So you don't even get the supposed "cache" out of the deal.

December 16, 2009, 04:42:54 PM
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willie83

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Must add in the $3,000,000 they are going to pay Mang. :pirate_grrr:

December 16, 2009, 08:19:00 PM
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MadCat

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Recruiting stops when the waffle iron club opens.  :fatty:

December 16, 2009, 08:27:03 PM
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waks

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They should have been more bold and hired Gill for less than his contract at Buffalo IMO.

December 16, 2009, 08:42:00 PM
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doom

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Why would you double down on a pair of 3's?

This is a terrible bet.   :'byecruelworld:

Kind of jazzed to see it play out in 3-4 years. 


I still want my cooler, bitches!

December 16, 2009, 08:59:28 PM
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sys

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just goes to show how stupid ksu is vis a vis martin.
"these are no longer “games” in the commonly accepted sense of the term. these are free throw shooting contests leavened by the occasional sprint to the other end of the floor."

December 17, 2009, 01:36:38 AM
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PCR

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just goes to show how stupid ksu is vis a vis martin.

Gotta get this guy locked up at $2M a year for 6+.

December 17, 2009, 01:49:51 AM
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Miracle Whip

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What a weird thread.  Complaining about another team paying to much money for a coach.

I say $2mil is just fine.

December 17, 2009, 03:19:25 AM
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waks

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What a weird thread.  Complaining about another team paying to much money for a coach.

I say $2mil is just fine.
You don't pay $2 million to a coach with a losing record from a MAC school. It doesn't make sense to pay more for somebody when you could have got him for about half as much. You've already proven you'll pay big money for a big coach when you paid Mangino 2 million. We aren't complaining about it. We're just appreciating the humor in it.

December 17, 2009, 03:32:32 AM
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Miracle Whip

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To be fair, you staters really don't have a foot to stand on when talking contract negotations and coaches.  For the staff Gill had premade and other intangibles Lew saw, 2mil was just fine.  You don't offer another coach 2.9 and when it doesn't workout you pay the next on the list 1 mil.  Lew is showing that not only himself but the University has confidence in Gill by paying him that kind of coin.  Gill doesn't have to have in the back of his head that he needs to do this and that to receive additional money (incentatives).  He's got the money, now focus 100% putting a program together.  There won't be discussions about contract negotations unless he is extremely extremely successful.  If that time comes, $2mil was a great decision.  If he falls on his face as a coach, 750,000 would have been to much. 



December 17, 2009, 08:35:24 AM
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MENSACat

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To be fair, you staters really don't have a foot to stand on when talking contract negotations and coaches.  For the staff Gill had premade and other intangibles Lew saw, 2mil was just fine.  You don't offer another coach 2.9 and when it doesn't workout you pay the next on the list 1 mil.  Lew is showing that not only himself but the University has confidence in Gill by paying him that kind of coin.  Gill doesn't have to have in the back of his head that he needs to do this and that to receive additional money (incentatives).  He's got the money, now focus 100% putting a program together.  There won't be discussions about contract negotations unless he is extremely extremely successful.  If that time comes, $2mil was a great decision.  If he falls on his face as a coach, 750,000 would have been to much. 
All Lew is showing is that he outkicked his coverage. The only reason Mangino was vastly overpayed was to make the ku job attractive to the "homerun" hires when Mangino's time ran out. It is now apparant that his approach did not work, as coaches weren't kicking down the door to get this "great" job. Gill is only making $2M because Lew would look very foolish if ku fans ever figured out relevant coaches' market values; i.e. Mangino. Luckily for Lew...the ku fans that I encounter are really, extraordinarily uninformed in most areas regarding college athletics.

December 17, 2009, 09:33:00 AM
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Dick Knewheizel

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To be fair, you staters really don't have a foot to stand on when talking contract negotations and coaches.  For the staff Gill had premade and other intangibles Lew saw, 2mil was just fine.  You don't offer another coach 2.9 and when it doesn't workout you pay the next on the list 1 mil.  Lew is showing that not only himself but the University has confidence in Gill by paying him that kind of coin.  Gill doesn't have to have in the back of his head that he needs to do this and that to receive additional money (incentatives).  He's got the money, now focus 100% putting a program together.  There won't be discussions about contract negotations unless he is extremely extremely successful.  If that time comes, $2mil was a great decision.  If he falls on his face as a coach, 750,000 would have been to much.  




Agreed that CatFans have no room to talk. . .but this logic in redic stoopid.  Showing the world that you're willing to overpay a coach is not how you gain cred.  Frankly, that's the snobbiest thing I've ever heard.  It's one thing to pay a ton of money to retain a champion, but to just throw cash around to pretend you're a big boy is idiotic.  

Reminds me of when Naven Fletcher from the jerk invents the handle for glasses that slip.  That's what all the big boys are thinking, not "OMG they are willing to overpay they must be serious!".  They're all laughing inside, wondering who this white trash is and why they've maxed out their credit cards, foreclosing their future.

Contracts in coaching are purely unilateral.  Coaches sign for 5 years, universities are obligated to pay, if the coach is successful in year 2 he demands to reneg or take a hike to a school that will pay his buyout.  This is a fact, there's no reason to pay a guy $2MM when he's probably not worth (FMV) more than $1MM.  High risk Pro Athletes have incentive based contracts, why not coaches.

In short, you guys are dumb, and their is no money tree (see ADBK)

« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 09:35:07 AM by Dick Knewheizel »

December 17, 2009, 12:34:48 PM
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Legore

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To be fair, you staters really don't have a foot to stand on when talking contract negotations and coaches.  For the staff Gill had premade and other intangibles Lew saw, 2mil was just fine.  You don't offer another coach 2.9 and when it doesn't workout you pay the next on the list 1 mil.  Lew is showing that not only himself but the University has confidence in Gill by paying him that kind of coin.  Gill doesn't have to have in the back of his head that he needs to do this and that to receive additional money (incentatives).  He's got the money, now focus 100% putting a program together.  There won't be discussions about contract negotations unless he is extremely extremely successful.  If that time comes, $2mil was a great decision.  If he falls on his face as a coach, 750,000 would have been to much. 




We all fully acknowledge that the buyout stuff with Prince was beyond stupid.  Notice the people that gave him that are all gone.  We don't go around trying to defend stupid decisions by our AD like you ku fans do.  Lew is wasting money he wasted it by overpaying Mangino and he's wasting it by overpaying Gill. 

You could argue that you have more money then you need anyway but we all know that not to be true.  If it was true you'd be breaking ground on a stadium club about now.  If Gill fails you're right 750K would have been too much but 2 million willl have been pretty much criminally incompetent on Perkins part.  As bad as the Prince stuff was/is ku is on the hook for more to Gill (10 million) then KSU will have paid Prince even if he wins his lawsuit and gets his full buyout.